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Author Topic: BTC prise isnt rising! USD is loosing value, thats all!  (Read 4386 times)
Qoheleth
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February 08, 2013, 07:12:41 PM
 #21

Specifically people can stop hoarding coins and use them as currency not just a speculative investment.

What issue do you see arising from hoarding coins? How will increased spending fix that issue? Why do you view speculative investment as bad for Bitcoin, and why do you think this won't occur with any cryptocurrency?
I can't give any reason why Bitcoin is "special" here, but I can give two cents about why a high hoard/spend ratio is not good in the long term.

The way I see it, currency derives its value from two things:
1) What you can trade for it now, and
2) What you think you'll be able to trade for it in the future.

Let's be frank. Right now, the bitcoin economy is still foetal. There's plenty of things that you simply can't buy for bitcoins - you have to "cash out", whether to fiat or to fiat-denominated prepaid access (e.g. Amazon gift codes). So most of the value of BTC is not in "what I can trade for it now", but my expectations that in the future, BTC will bloom into a currency in its own right, and I will be able to trade a bitcoin for far more than dinner for two (the current cash-out exchange rate).

But that trust in the future can't hang on as trust forever. Sooner or later, people need to start trading valuable things for BTC. If they don't, then sooner or later the people waiting for BTC to become valuable will lose interest, and sell their coins. Speculation is speculative - tentative - able to create a downward spiral if long-term confidence that the bitcoin universe will become an economy proper ever runs out.

Whereas, spending BTC today helps create that future world for which the speculative players (and, frankly, most of us on this forum) are hoping.

Now, I'm not saying speculators are evil. If I didn't have the bulk of my BTC tied up at an exchange, I wouldn't be able to "bet on volatility" and thereby help the price stabilize. But a high speculation-to-physical-economy ratio is worrying, because it's a pattern of doubling down on the future without really doing much to help that future arrive. And even though there's not really a way to change it, I can understand why that would make someone bearish on BTC as an asset.

I can also say the I have 200 customers that I am not selling btc to because they are hard to get right now and I cant hold them because the price isn't right.
If you think the price isn't right, sign up with Coinbase or BitPay or one of those services. Give your customers the option to pay with BTC - be part of the solution - without exposing yourself to the risk of the fluctuating exchange rate.

If there is something that will make Bitcoin succeed, it is growth of utility - greater quantity and variety of goods and services offered for BTC. If there is something that will make Bitcoin fail, it is the prevalence of users convinced that BTC is a magic box that will turn them into millionaires, and of the con-artists who have followed them here to devour them.
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February 08, 2013, 07:28:24 PM
 #22

I think that the major problems for bitcoin stem mostly from the monopoly status. Markets work because of competition, when btc has a alternative it will start to act right until then it is the gold rush the fools gold rush. 

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February 08, 2013, 07:33:23 PM
 #23

Specifically people can stop hoarding coins and use them as currency not just a speculative investment.

You can help encourage that by offering goods or services for sale in bitcoin.  Do so profitably, and you help everybody, including yourself.

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February 08, 2013, 07:35:24 PM
 #24

I think that the major problems for bitcoin stem mostly from the monopoly status. Markets work because of competition, when btc has a alternative it will start to act right until then it is the gold rush the fools gold rush. 
Anything that has any scarcity will always be speculative in nature.  Gold, silver, oil, food, etc.  People's actions with Bitcoin won't change with alternatives present.  That's like saying oil speculation will stop (which it hasn't) when it has alternatives (which it does - natural gas, biofuels, solar and wind energy, etc).
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February 08, 2013, 07:41:56 PM
 #25

Specifically people can stop hoarding coins and use them as currency not just a speculative investment.

You can help encourage that by offering goods or services for sale in bitcoin.  Do so profitably, and you help everybody, including yourself.

I do my part. I sell boat parts for btc (no one has bought), I ran an ad on bitmit for glass tobacco pipe (no one has bought) I started a business makeing it easy to get bitcoins for paypal. I was selling on ebay. I have given over 200 new wallets their first coin, I have 500 business cards for bitcoin, I have a facebook page with almost 200 followers for bitcoin friends and have 16 for litecoin friends. We just started litecoin friends and are giving away a free litecoin for liking our page.

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Walter Rothbard
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February 08, 2013, 07:49:13 PM
 #26

Specifically people can stop hoarding coins and use them as currency not just a speculative investment.

You can help encourage that by offering goods or services for sale in bitcoin.  Do so profitably, and you help everybody, including yourself.

I do my part. I sell boat parts for btc (no one has bought), I ran an ad on bitmit for glass tobacco pipe (no one has bought) I started a business makeing it easy to get bitcoins for paypal. I was selling on ebay. I have given over 200 new wallets their first coin, I have 500 business cards for bitcoin, I have a facebook page with almost 200 followers for bitcoin friends and have 16 for litecoin friends. We just started litecoin friends and are giving away a free litecoin for liking our page.

If noone is buying, you aren't fully doing your part.  You have to do more: you have to do the hard work of figuring out what people are willing to pay for.  Apparently people don't want boat parts or glass tobacco pipe.  (I know I don't.)  That is why I added the stipulation: do so profitably.

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February 08, 2013, 07:55:31 PM
 #27

Well seeing that i sold 125k of boat parts last year I dont think that is the problem. Sorry i cant sell weed on the SR. My products are in demand they sell in dollars. The problem is the coin isnt acting like money.

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Walter Rothbard
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February 08, 2013, 07:56:58 PM
 #28

Well seeing that i sold 125k of boat parts last year I dont think that is the problem. Sorry i cant sell weed on the SR. My products are in demand they sell in dollars. The problem is the coin isnt acting like money.

And it won't until enough people like you offer things that people are willing to trade bitcoins for.

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February 08, 2013, 08:03:30 PM
 #29

you somehow immediately disqualify yourself, when you make the allegation, that bitcoin is a series of bubbles while it is currently at a sma30 all time high (or something like that).

questions for your homework:

1. maybe people in general want to buy a different kind of products than "hardware" as you sell? e.g. i'm thinking of web-space, hosting, VPN, music, video, games, in-game-items, ... ever thought of that?

2. why is it a problem, that "the coin isnt acting like money"? hint: it doesn't need to "act like", because there is no need to "act".
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February 08, 2013, 08:11:34 PM
 #30

Well seeing that i sold 125k of boat parts last year I dont think that is the problem. Sorry i cant sell weed on the SR. My products are in demand they sell in dollars. The problem is the coin isnt acting like money.

Maybe you are not pricing things correctly? Maybe you need to advertise better?

You keep saying there needs to be less hoarding and more spending. I am not sure how you measure those things? All bitcoins are in somebodies wallet at all times, so you cannot decrease the number held. How do you tell the difference between "hoarding" and "saving"?

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February 08, 2013, 08:13:08 PM
 #31

you somehow immediately disqualify yourself, when you make the allegation, that bitcoin is a series of bubbles while it is currently at a sma30 all time high (or something like that).

questions for your homework:

1. maybe people in general want to buy a different kind of products than "hardware" as you sell? e.g. i'm thinking of web-space, hosting, VPN, music, video, games, in-game-items, ... ever thought of that?

2. why is it a problem, that "the coin isnt acting like money"? hint: it doesn't need to "act like", because there is no need to "act".

bitcoin was in a bubble in 2011 it is in one now. If it keeps acting like this people wont use it. I dont even know what to say to way is it a problem that bitcoin inst acting like money. Money that you cant use like money. Why would that be a problem? Products do not conform to money money conforms to products. The wealth is the product bitcoin is just the representation of a promise anything can represent a promise. Seem like what I keep seeing again and again is people wanting other people to conform to bitcoin it has to be the other way around. 

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Walter Rothbard
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February 08, 2013, 08:15:46 PM
 #32

You are saying "bitcoin is not acting like money," but I am hearing "hundred dollar bills are not acting like twenty dollar bills" or "gold ounces are not acting like silver grams."

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February 08, 2013, 08:20:47 PM
 #33

Well seeing that i sold 125k of boat parts last year I dont think that is the problem. Sorry i cant sell weed on the SR. My products are in demand they sell in dollars. The problem is the coin isnt acting like money.


You're aiming Bitcoin at the wrong demographic. I presume the type of person who buys boat parts is a retired baby boomer enjoying a big defined benefits pension. There aren't many of those in the Bitcoin community. Several surveys on this forum have shown the average Bitcoiner to be in the 16-30 age group.
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February 08, 2013, 08:59:54 PM
 #34

Well seeing that i sold 125k of boat parts last year I dont think that is the problem. Sorry i cant sell weed on the SR. My products are in demand they sell in dollars. The problem is the coin isnt acting like money.
And how many people who have Bitcoins to spend own boats?  Boat parts is a specialized niche of activity.  It doesn't appeal to many people.  When you take a small subset of the entire population of the world and offer a niche product to that subset, you're probably not going to get much in the way of sales unless it's steeply discounted or the products are specific to that subset (i.e., a subset of fishermen, for example).

The subset of Bitcoiners has nothing to do with boating, so you can't expect much in the way of sales until that subset grows much larger.  Instead, work on offering products relevant to that subset (gambling seems to be a big boon, or computer hardware, other electronics, etc).
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February 08, 2013, 09:52:21 PM
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The subset of Bitcoiners has nothing to do with boating,


A goat on a boat?

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February 08, 2013, 10:41:38 PM
 #36

I do not have a misunderstanding of bitcoin. lets do one question at a time. I dont have the effort to write essays in here.This article explains way btc speculation is bad. I can also say the I have 200 customers that I am not selling btc to because they are hard to get right now and I cant hold them because the price isn't right.  

http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/42429739154/bitcoin-ends-january-up-51-largest-monthly


Strange I (well TC LLC) bought and sold a lot of Bitcoins in Jan the highest volume we have ever done.  The upward price didn't cause a problem, the hoarders didn't cause a problem, people being greedy or scammy didn't cause a problem.

So maybe you are just doing it wrong?  

Quote
bitcoin was in a bubble in 2011 it is in one now. If it keeps acting like this people wont use it.
Bitcoin will act how it acts, nobody controls it.  Your just pissing in the wind wanting Bitcoin to conform to your view of what is should be and how it should be.  Even if you convinced most people there still is absolutely nothing all of them could do.  

Still if people stop using it then it won't be in a bubble.  Problem solved. Smiley
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February 08, 2013, 11:02:48 PM
 #37

You know, on a semi-related note, the value of one BTC now has almost exceeded the 1913 US dollar. Are we to reach parity?
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February 08, 2013, 11:17:24 PM
 #38

You know, on a semi-related note, the value of one BTC now has almost exceeded the 1913 US dollar. Are we to reach parity?
I'm waiting for the ever-elusive silver parity to be reached..!
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February 08, 2013, 11:18:57 PM
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Just the growth of the gambling industry alone will create a great demand for bitcoins.
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February 09, 2013, 05:14:06 AM
 #40

The US is ahead in the money printing race, so the Euro is gaining (6,4% since November), that might explain less buying of Bitcoin from Europe?

I bet this is completely unrelated..

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