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Author Topic: BTC prise isnt rising! USD is loosing value, thats all!  (Read 4381 times)
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February 08, 2013, 04:17:34 PM
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BTC prise isnt rising! USD is loosing value, thats all!

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February 08, 2013, 04:22:00 PM
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Well... true but that doesn't explain the magnitude of the price rise.

Compare Bitcoin to gold, or a basket of commodities and it is still rising.
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February 08, 2013, 04:29:19 PM
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no, certainly not. there is also the block reward halving ...
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February 08, 2013, 04:30:42 PM
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In other news, man continues to struggle with proper spelling.
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February 08, 2013, 04:40:43 PM
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If the USD lost 50% of its value in 1 month I wouldn't like to be working in law enforcement.
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February 08, 2013, 04:54:24 PM
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BTC prise isnt rising! USD is loosing value, thats all!

This is goldbug like mentality and seems not aligned with what market has said. (Gold is in a chocking mode, bitcoin is as volatilie as a butterfly and up more than 50% in a few months , even though bitcoin supply is increaseing at the moment)

Maybe long-term wise, USD is doomed to loose value, but not now, at least not a pace that is in any significance.
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February 08, 2013, 05:03:28 PM
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If the USD lost 50% of its value in 1 month I wouldn't like to be working in law enforcement.

If the USD loses 50% of its value in 1 month we will ALL be working in law enforcement Cheesy

"The difference between a castle and a prison is only a question of who holds the keys."
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February 08, 2013, 05:14:28 PM
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Bitcoin is in a greed and speculation induced bubble. The bitcoin community is full of crooks. I think that there are unrealistic expectations and a lot of ignorance fueling this mania. It is starting to look like a bad ending to me, series of bubbles and burst new adopters abandoning the currency for a simpler to use, secure and more stable. Maybe competition would help to level bitcoin out. Right now there is a monopoly on anonymous digital currency I hope that changes fast. I am going to be pushing ltc and any other digital coins that come out. I dont know if you can tell but i dont like what is being done with bitcoin. 

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February 08, 2013, 05:28:53 PM
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Bitcoin is in a greed and speculation induced bubble. The bitcoin community is full of crooks. I think that there are unrealistic expectations and a lot of ignorance fueling this mania. It is starting to look like a bad ending to me, series of bubbles and burst new adopters abandoning the currency for a simpler to use, secure and more stable. Maybe competition would help to level bitcoin out. Right now there is a monopoly on anonymous digital currency I hope that changes fast. I am going to be pushing ltc and any other digital coins that come out. I dont know if you can tell but i dont like what is being done with bitcoin. 
Go away... please, just leave.  We get it - you don't like Bitcoin.  So move on with your life and leave the rest of us to it.
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February 08, 2013, 05:48:11 PM
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No you dont get it at all. I love bitcoin Kiss. Seriously I think it is the coolest most powerful thing that I have ever seen. I am a true believer in P2P currency. It really think that it is going to radically change the world. I am so crazy that I think it will end war and government and distribute the wealth more evenly. I think individuals being their own bank is awesome I mean truly awesome. What I dont like is how a bunch of assholes are ruining it and driving people away.

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February 08, 2013, 05:51:21 PM
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No you dont get it at all. I love bitcoin Kiss. Seriously I think it is the coolest most powerful thing that I have ever seen. I am a true believer in P2P currency. It really think that it is going to radically change the world. I am so crazy that I think it will end war and government and distribute the wealth more evenly. I think individuals being their own bank is awesome I mean truly awesome. What I dont like is how a bunch of assholes are ruining it and driving people away.
The "flaws" you point out (bubbles and busts, full of crooks, etc) are a natural byproduct of the design of Bitcoins.  Complaining about them is annoying, because they cannot be fixed by anything but increased usage of Bitcoin.  In fact, complaining at all is annoying - instead, make specific suggestions to specific people about what they can do to help make Bitcoin better.
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February 08, 2013, 05:57:46 PM
 #12

The US is ahead in the money printing race, so the Euro is gaining (6,4% since November), that might explain less buying of Bitcoin from Europe?


 
 
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sublime5447
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February 08, 2013, 06:16:56 PM
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Specifically people can stop hoarding coins and use them as currency not just a speculative investment. Specifically people can start saying what can I do for bitcoin not what can bitcoin do for me, but that is not going to happen. What is going to happen is another coin will compete with bitcoin driving the price way down and crushing a lot people in the process. Bitcoins are just hot potatoes right now someone is going to get burned. Deals aren't good deals if they aren't good for everyone. What I am complaining about is not "just the way it has to be" it is just the way users have made it. Bitcoin can and will do better it just might have to be forced into doing what is right.

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twolifeinexile
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February 08, 2013, 06:29:24 PM
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Specifically people can stop hoarding coins and use them as currency not just a speculative investment. Specifically people can start saying what can I do for bitcoin not what can bitcoin do for me, but that is not going to happen. What is going to happen is another coin will compete with bitcoin driving the price way down and crushing a lot people in the process. Bitcoins are just hot potatoes right now someone is going to get burned. Deals aren't good deals if they aren't good for everyone. What I am complaining about is not "just the way it has to be" it is just the way users have made it. Bitcoin can and will do better it just might have to be forced into doing what is right.


With a limited supply and upwards potential (if bitcoin succeed in the end), then naturally people will hoard, this is not something anyone can control. It is the natural course of action.
actually, without speculators and hoarders, bitcoin may not reach its value in the end. Since these hoarders/speculators are backers of bitcoin, maintaining a price when there isn't so much economic activity. Just as someone in this borad posted, they want to become the "new elite", there is no social good intentions in many people's investing decisions and this is probably shouldn't be blamed either.

Anyone, bitcoin opens the box and genie is out, digital p2p currency will become a reality in the future (maybe some other xxxcoin, but who knows, bitcoin is still the leading candidate).
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February 08, 2013, 06:32:31 PM
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Specifically people can stop hoarding coins and use them as currency not just a speculative investment. Specifically people can start saying what can I do for bitcoin not what can bitcoin do for me, but that is not going to happen. What is going to happen is another coin will compete with bitcoin driving the price way down and crushing a lot people in the process. Bitcoins are just hot potatoes right now someone is going to get burned. Deals aren't good deals if they aren't good for everyone. What I am complaining about is not "just the way it has to be" it is just the way users have made it. Bitcoin can and will do better it just might have to be forced into doing what is right.
So you expect a crowd that is less into hoarding and more into doing things "for the coin" will join alt-coin projects?  Why couldn't people get burned just as easily on alt coins? (hint: they have already)

Lots of people ARE doing great things on Bitcoin's front.  Not much is being done for other alt-coins.  So why do you say that Bitcoin has failed and alt-coins have not, when it appears to be exactly the opposite?

People will speculate and hoard ANYTHING.  Nothing you can do will stop that.  Learn to live with that aspect of a decentralized currency, because it is here to stay.
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February 08, 2013, 06:43:24 PM
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The "flaws" you point out (bubbles and busts, full of crooks, etc) are a natural byproduct of the design of Bitcoins.  Complaining about them is annoying, because they cannot be fixed by anything but increased usage of Bitcoin.  In fact, complaining at all is annoying - instead, make specific suggestions to specific people about what they can do to help make Bitcoin better.
I think bubbles are mostly unavoidable right now. The market isn't mature. But that means that if you take a strategy that bets on volatility, you can help stabilize the price and make money at the same time. And the more people making money that way, the more stable the market becomes.

As for crooks... I think the biggest suggestion I have is to rein in the ongoing meme of selling Bitcoin based on its potential for growth. Most of us are bullish here. Some think BTC can take over a significant fraction of the online payment universe, in which case bitcoins will be worth hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars. Some think BTC might start replacing fiat currency wholesale, in which case you've got an even bigger growth potential.

The problem is that getting new people into Bitcoin via these kinds of arguments is screwing up the community. There's a lot of folks who aren't technically apt but are smart with their money, and if you tell them about Bitcoin's growth potential their HYIP flag will go up and they'll stop caring. But if you talk to someone with a lot of hope but not a lot of hard knocks, it sounds like this huge, awesome idea, and they'll buy in. And that's the kind of person that has attracted conmen to the community ever since things took off in early 2011.

So I guess my specific suggestion is, if you're evangelizing, evangelize about how it's a currency that can be transferred online, without having to trust a third party that (coughpaypalcough) can freeze all your money arbitrarily when you need it most. Evangelize about how you can use this system even if you don't trust the BTC/USD exchange rate, because there's services that'll automatically turn your internet monopoly money into "real" fiat as part of checkout. If you focus on the huge growth potential, no matter how true it might be, you will attract naive fools and conmen, and repel smart money, and that's a great way to turn an economy and a community into a scam-infested byword.

Edit: In response to the original post, I'll just echo what other people have been saying and point out that the price of peanut butter hasn't doubled in the last two months.

If there is something that will make Bitcoin succeed, it is growth of utility - greater quantity and variety of goods and services offered for BTC. If there is something that will make Bitcoin fail, it is the prevalence of users convinced that BTC is a magic box that will turn them into millionaires, and of the con-artists who have followed them here to devour them.
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February 08, 2013, 06:45:34 PM
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I respect you opinion but I do disagree. People dont hoard tulip bulbs any more. Computer code is not the way to hold wealth but is an excellent way to send it.  So when a coin is out there that is used and not held it will win out, if bitcoin can become it will grow if not it will end quick as myspace. 

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February 08, 2013, 06:54:04 PM
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The "flaws" you point out (bubbles and busts, full of crooks, etc) are a natural byproduct of the design of Bitcoins.  Complaining about them is annoying, because they cannot be fixed by anything but increased usage of Bitcoin.  In fact, complaining at all is annoying - instead, make specific suggestions to specific people about what they can do to help make Bitcoin better.
I think bubbles are mostly unavoidable right now. The market isn't mature. But that means that if you take a strategy that bets on volatility, you can help stabilize the price and make money at the same time. And the more people making money that way, the more stable the market becomes.

As for crooks... I think the biggest suggestion I have is to rein in the ongoing meme of selling Bitcoin based on its potential for growth. Most of us are bullish here. Some think BTC can take over a significant fraction of the online payment universe, in which case bitcoins will be worth hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars. Some think BTC might start replacing fiat currency wholesale, in which case you've got an even bigger growth potential.

The problem is that getting new people into Bitcoin via these kinds of arguments is screwing up the community. There's a lot of folks who aren't technically apt but are smart with their money, and if you tell them about Bitcoin's growth potential their HYIP flag will go up and they'll stop caring. But if you talk to someone with a lot of hope but not a lot of hard knocks, it sounds like this huge, awesome idea, and they'll buy in. And that's the kind of person that has attracted conmen to the community ever since things took off in early 2011.

So I guess my specific suggestion is, if you're evangelizing, evangelize about how it's a currency that can be transferred online, without having to trust a third party that (coughpaypalcough) can freeze all your money arbitrarily when you need it most. Evangelize about how you can use this system even if you don't trust the BTC/USD exchange rate, because there's services that'll automatically turn your internet monopoly money into "real" fiat as part of checkout. If you focus on the huge growth potential, no matter how true it might be, you will attract naive fools and conmen, and repel smart money, and that's a great way to turn an economy and a community into a scam-infested byword.

Edit: In response to the original post, I'll just echo what other people have been saying and point out that the price of peanut butter hasn't doubled in the last two months.
Yep, bubbles are unavoidable for now.  As more people begin to use Bitcoin, there will be less and less bubbling.  It will stabilize to gold or silver levels (would be my guess).  Even then, bubbles of some significance might still exist, they will just be slower to act.  Not as much day-to-day volatility.

Also agree with your ideas of evangelizing Bitcoin.  As much as it's fun to talk about the potential for Bitcoin prices to rise, the better benefits to tout would be about how quickly and cheaply money can be sent to anyone, anywhere in the world.  Anyone intimately familiar with wire transfer fees should be interested immediately.
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February 08, 2013, 06:56:08 PM
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Bitcoin is in a greed and speculation induced bubble. The bitcoin community is full of crooks. I think that there are unrealistic expectations and a lot of ignorance fueling this mania. It is starting to look like a bad ending to me, series of bubbles and burst new adopters abandoning the currency for a simpler to use, secure and more stable. Maybe competition would help to level bitcoin out. Right now there is a monopoly on anonymous digital currency I hope that changes fast. I am going to be pushing ltc and any other digital coins that come out. I dont know if you can tell but i dont like what is being done with bitcoin. 
Go away... please, just leave.  We get it - you don't like Bitcoin.  So move on with your life and leave the rest of us to it.

People like sublime exist everywhere. Use them as practice for speaking with others irl. His misgivings and disinformation are unfortunately the norm, not the exception. Bitcoin will not gain popular adoption until the brainwashing, ignorance, and lies of the current regime are addressed and debunked. Practice makes perfect Wink

Specifically people can stop hoarding coins and use them as currency not just a speculative investment.

What issue do you see arising from hoarding coins? How will increased spending fix that issue? Why do you view speculative investment as bad for Bitcoin, and why do you think this won't occur with any cryptocurrency?

Specifically people can start saying what can I do for bitcoin not what can bitcoin do for me, but that is not going to happen.

Why do you think there aren't people doing exactly that? Why do you feel Bitcoin requires its users to help do what it was designed to do? Do you need to help a shovel be a shovel, or a horse be a horse?


What is going to happen is another coin will compete with bitcoin driving the price way down and crushing a lot people in the process.

What improvements will the new currency have over Bitcoin that will cause people to adopt it instead of Bitcoin? Why do you feel these improvements cannot be adopted by Bitcoin? On a deeper level, I believe you may be implying the current price of BTC is due to speculation. Why do you believe BTC are overvalued? What technical basis do you have for this belief?


Bitcoins are just hot potatoes right now someone is going to get burned.

Again, this statement implies Bitcoin is overvalued at best, a pyramid scheme at worst. What are you basing this assumption on?


Deals aren't good deals if they aren't good for everyone.

I'm afraid this is completely false. Deals quite often are beneficial to one party while being detrimental to the other. As an example; A homeowner whose home is foreclosed on by the loan holder may be purchased by a third party for significantly less than the value of the home. The third party benefits on the deal, while the original homeowner loses. Your assumption, while altruistic, is not indicative of reality.


What I am complaining about is not "just the way it has to be" it is just the way users have made it. Bitcoin can and will do better it just might have to be forced into doing what is right.
Who will force Bitcoin to do what is right? Who, or what, do you believe Bitcoin is?

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February 08, 2013, 07:10:21 PM
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I do not have a misunderstanding of bitcoin. lets do one question at a time. I dont have the effort to write essays in here.This article explains way btc speculation is bad. I can also say the I have 200 customers that I am not selling btc to because they are hard to get right now and I cant hold them because the price isn't right.  

http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/42429739154/bitcoin-ends-january-up-51-largest-monthly

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