[POLL] !!!!STEEM is it a SCAM !!!!- or only honestly unfair??? you decide.

[cryptohunter]

I can't decide if this is a scam or not. I'm not kidding it is an honestly unfair coin apparently hehe

IF YOU WANT CLIFF NOTES OF THIS SKIP TO MY 2ND POST BELOW TO REVIEW ECLIPSE CRYPTOS INTIAL ACCUSATIONS AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE HE SUPPLIES TO BACK UP HIS SCAM CLAIMS.


clip from eclipse crypto dev - below...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The reasoning behind not having windows binaries is that the devs continue to use their insider knowledge to fuck over the community.

The list of how they do this is growing longer.

Most recently you will notice that they offered someone a position as a witness. How are they able to offer this position? Because they have now secured all control over this coin by using this concept of vests. This coin is COMPLETELY CENTRALIZED NOW.

Here's how they did it:

First, they did a typical instamine/flashmine/freemine scam (yes scam) where they released

(1) no compiled wallets
(2) no instructions to build
(3) incomplete and inaccurate instructions to mine

This wasn't bad enough. After the first 12 or so hours of mining, all their miners crashed, exposing that they were mining to 100 different witnesses to hide the fact that they (he) was one entity. The devs wouldn't have been caught except that their mining instructions were wrong, and no one else was mining because, even if they couldn't get the client to build, they entered mining commands that caused them to get no blocks. The devs will claim this isn't on purpose, but check the original thread. You'll see that no one mined a block when the dev's miners were down.

Then, as I have stated many times, when their miners crashed again, I mined a significant amount of steem that night in their absence. To prevent my vesting that and driving the price of vests up on them, they relaunched to ensure COMPLETE CONTROL AND CENTRALIZATION.

After the relaunch, no one would challenge them on mining because if they did, the devs would just relaunch this scamcoin again. So, no one who pays attention (and the people who have the means to procure whatever hashes they want are also the people who are paying attention), would challenge them on the hashes. As they hoped, no one did and they completely dominated the hashes for 1 week.

Now after 1 week of hashing, they dump all their coins into vests, where the price of a vest goes up with the amount vested. This is not your typical stakeholding where one unit of currency is worth one stake. This is on purpose so that they can COMPLETELY CONTROL THIS COIN IN A CENTRALIZED WAY after just 1 week.

Vests don't cost 1 STEEM anymore like they did when the devs bought them. They now cost 5 STEEM. That means that you will need to dominate all the hashes for 5 weeks just to match the control the devs have after 1 week. They have driven your costs up by 5, not using the market, as should be done, but by using this freemine/threat-of-relaunch scam.

So, why don't we all just mine for 5 weeks and decentralize control ourselves? There are two main reasons.

First, anyone who is paying attention (this includes all smart people with BTC to throw at things like this) won't dump money on a scam like this. So you are going to get a bunch of gullible small timers who don't have the foresight to convert to vests anyway, even if vests were legit. The small timers just want to get a profit asap.

Second, there's only 3 more weeks left of true mining before delegated mining kicks in. Delegated mining is when the devs pick 19 "witnesses" to mine. Maybe they might pick one or two legit miners, but the most likely scenario, given the scam they have perpetrated so far, is that they will pick at least 17 instances of themselves to mine.

In other words, it's impossible now to decentralize this coin because the devs have rigged it since the beginning. Not only that, they will be getting all the coins, unchallenged, for as small of a price as they want to pay.

------------------------------------------------------

The dev says it is not a scam there is no premine and no instamine. Sadly no windows qt for miners by desire so he has less mining competition, if he does get too much competition he will reset the coin again.

Then there was this guy

eclipse crypto - screaming it was a scam and they reset the coin because he mined more than the devs. He produced some evidence he mined a lot of steem tokens just before they reset the coin and relaunched it.

I mean we should believe him right?? he is a dev for some eclipse crypto. Would devs lie and admit it in public??

BUT wait now he is saying he was just fudding so he could mine more??? this guy is  a developer??

Anyway after a while it was decided it is not a scam because the developer of this coin steem says openly it is NOT MEANT TO BE FAIR?

So you can launch coins that are UNFAIR so long as you are honest??? I kind of agree this is better than saying it is fair and then making it unfair?

All you need to do is read the thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1410943.0

or old one

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1408726.0


Even if it is not a scam best all get over there now and mine it so they can't keep it all. Go widen that distribution. Don't let them vest it all and drip it out for huge returns.

Also make sure to avoid eclipse coin or whatever junk this dev pumps out because if steem is not a scam and he was just screaming scam to mine more steem then he must be a scammer or at the best very dishonest. I would not trust him as dev of any project because scamming is just chess to him.

Someone took HODL and mated it with bitshares?

No need for discussion read the thread and just vote ....it's a scam or it's not a scam.

All very confusing

1. is steem a scam? or just honestly unfair?
2. is eclipse crypto dev account hacked ?
3. is eclipse crypto correct and that fudding when all the while trying to mine more for yourself just like chess??
4. is eclipse cryto the coin to be trusted?

Is this the new breed of honestly unfair releases because it's all the govs fault for regulation.




Steeming pile of scam or steeming great coin idea. Hodl and bitshares combined.

Get your VPS on it now and get vesting. Or write it off as a scam. That's the question I guess.



Also please leave a comment so I can judge who you think is better or worse bad or least good out of

1.steem dev with his honestly very unfair coin which he tried to mine looking like 100 different people

or

2. eclipse crypto dev - who reveals it for being very unfair and even calls it a scam only to then say he was fudding and mining all along and now begging for witness status?

I mean who is least bad here? Please let me know.

[1715068206]

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[1715068206]

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[1715068206]

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[cryptohunter]

Here is what i first read by eclipse crypto dev

"The reasoning behind not having windows binaries is that the devs continue to use their insider knowledge to fuck over the community.

The list of how they do this is growing longer.

Most recently you will notice that they offered someone a position as a witness. How are they able to offer this position? Because they have now secured all control over this coin by using this concept of vests. This coin is COMPLETELY CENTRALIZED NOW.

Here's how they did it:

First, they did a typical instamine/flashmine/freemine scam (yes scam) where they released

(1) no compiled wallets
(2) no instructions to build
(3) incomplete and inaccurate instructions to mine

This wasn't bad enough. After the first 12 or so hours of mining, all their miners crashed, exposing that they were mining to 100 different witnesses to hide the fact that they (he) was one entity. The devs wouldn't have been caught except that their mining instructions were wrong, and no one else was mining because, even if they couldn't get the client to build, they entered mining commands that caused them to get no blocks. The devs will claim this isn't on purpose, but check the original thread. You'll see that no one mined a block when the dev's miners were down.

Then, as I have stated many times, when their miners crashed again, I mined a significant amount of steem that night in their absence. To prevent my vesting that and driving the price of vests up on them, they relaunched to ensure COMPLETE CONTROL AND CENTRALIZATION.

After the relaunch, no one would challenge them on mining because if they did, the devs would just relaunch this scamcoin again. So, no one who pays attention (and the people who have the means to procure whatever hashes they want are also the people who are paying attention), would challenge them on the hashes. As they hoped, no one did and they completely dominated the hashes for 1 week.

Now after 1 week of hashing, they dump all their coins into vests, where the price of a vest goes up with the amount vested. This is not your typical stakeholding where one unit of currency is worth one stake. This is on purpose so that they can COMPLETELY CONTROL THIS COIN IN A CENTRALIZED WAY after just 1 week.

Vests don't cost 1 STEEM anymore like they did when the devs bought them. They now cost 5 STEEM. That means that you will need to dominate all the hashes for 5 weeks just to match the control the devs have after 1 week. They have driven your costs up by 5, not using the market, as should be done, but by using this freemine/threat-of-relaunch scam.

So, why don't we all just mine for 5 weeks and decentralize control ourselves? There are two main reasons.

First, anyone who is paying attention (this includes all smart people with BTC to throw at things like this) won't dump money on a scam like this. So you are going to get a bunch of gullible small timers who don't have the foresight to convert to vests anyway, even if vests were legit. The small timers just want to get a profit asap.

Second, there's only 3 more weeks left of true mining before delegated mining kicks in. Delegated mining is when the devs pick 19 "witnesses" to mine. Maybe they might pick one or two legit miners, but the most likely scenario, given the scam they have perpetrated so far, is that they will pick at least 17 instances of themselves to mine.

In other words, it's impossible now to decentralize this coin because the devs have rigged it since the beginning. Not only that, they will be getting all the coins, unchallenged, for as small of a price as they want to pay.

By the way, I'm keeping track here. The devs are going to have to stay low and so will this coin. If it ever gets big, then these devs will be fucked because they will not be able to deny they control the entire currency."


Then I read this a page later from eclipse crypto dev

"And I've been mining while I've been fudding.

Hate me? Consider it "chess". Wink

TOTAL                  1357.000 STEEM    3676.733594 VESTS            0.000 SBD "


Eclipse crypto dev latest one

"I think you have a great idea here and am interested in being a witness, so I'm going to lay down my creds.

First of all, the Eclipse Crypto account is a join developer account. I originally used it to post in this thread because I was logged in as this account and forgot to log out. I thought it would be a one-off post but then it kind of exploded. The other Eclipse developers have been *very* understanding, and my apparent lunacy here is in no way a reflection of the Eclipse team.

From now on, I'll post in this thread as "Bubba-Gump".



Was he paid off in steems or just was fudding and scamming all along? either way would you want a dev like this in charge of your eclipse crypto currency. I would be selling that at once if I had any I would be.

[MisO69]

The coin launched with only a source code on github. How many coins have been called a scam because of this same scenario? Let me give you a hint, all of them.

There are so many red flags here all one has to do is read the OP and the first page.

The launch was designed to give the developers and anyone competent a large advantage. So yes its a scam. The only reason you question it is because you know what your doing and are happily mining away.

[cryptohunter]

The coin launched with only a source code on github. How many coins have been called a scam because of this same scenario? Let me give you a hint, all of them.

There are so many red flags here all one has to do is read the OP and the first page.

The launch was designed to give the developers and anyone competent a large advantage. So yes its a scam. The only reason you question it is because you know what your doing and are happily mining away.

a source code with no build instructions i heard...??

also incomplete mining instructions

You got a problem with that ?

Did you miss the bit where it has to be reset if you did manage to mine too much??

Still how are you sure it's a scam? maybe just honestly unfair?? haha

I think we need to be sure it is a scam before we brand it as one. I must say though....looks like, smells like, walks like.....


Can I interest you in some steem tokens perhaps....freshly mined still steeming....?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Lol, new coin most likely= scam.  Don't even have to read that whole thing you compiled, but you are very thorough.  Unless a new coin has features that make it better than all the other coins that are already on the market, said coin has no reason to exist.

[cryptohunter]

Lol, new coin most likely= scam.  Don't even have to read that whole thing you compiled, but you are very thorough.  Unless a new coin has features that make it better than all the other coins that are already on the market, said coin has no reason to exist.

Exactly

But this time I didn't even compile that big list. The eclipse crypto dev did. But now he has had a change of heart it would seem and it's not a scam after all now that he has some

[cryptohunter]

Still unfolding it seems.

[billotronic]

I dont really care about this coin or your thoughts on it

BUT

I think its lazy that you cannot cook your own damn wallet. You are more secure if you actually look at the source code of what you are running and learn a little about how it works. Running precompiled bin's that solely deal with something of 'worth' is butt fucking retarded. Get off your ass, compile your own bins.

[cryptohunter]

I dont really care about this coin or your thoughts on it

BUT

I think its lazy that you cannot cook your own damn wallet. You are more secure if you actually look at the source code of what you are running and learn a little about how it works. Running precompiled bin's that solely deal with something of 'worth' is butt fucking retarded. Get off your ass, compile your own bins.

I'm very sad to hear that you're not the caring type.

Even so. If you go back and read the thread through you will notice that is not the main issue here.

Please try again.

I will quiz you if you post here again to check you have read and fully understood the level of underhanded methods this dev has tried to not only mine most of the coins himself but to conceal the facts too.

If you were not too lazy to read through what I have posted you will notice that I did not discover this scam myself it was discovered by the eclipse crypto dev.

[smooth]

I can't decide if this is a scam or not. I'm not kidding it is an honestly unfair coin apparently hehe

I agree. "Honestly unfair" LOL.

It is one of he most interesting not-quite-sure-if-this-is-a-scam coins ever.

Is it a scam if they basically tell you up front they are scamming you?

Tricky and interesting.

[cryptohunter]

I can't decide if this is a scam or not. I'm not kidding it is an honestly unfair coin apparently hehe

I agree. "Honestly unfair" LOL.

It is one of he most interesting not-quite-sure-if-this-is-a-scam coins ever.

Is it a scam if they basically tell you up front they are scamming you?

Tricky and interesting.

unfair is not much better than scam....the difference with a scam is you usually only discover it is unfair after the fact. In this case you are told it is unfair from the start although just how unfair was not discovered until eclipse crypto dev pointed it out.. Although why they have put no premine and no instamine ....nobody reasonably examining it would agree with that. Especially as eclipse dev proved they had 100 miners on it mining to different addresses to cover the fact they were instamining as hard as they could with as little competition as they could. I mean they even later on admit they are instamining it all because they claim it is illegal to have a premine.

The biggest slime ball in that thread is the eclipse crypto dev. He essentially is now a known scammer and liar. The fact he is actually wanting to be a witness now is totally weird. After all he said. I mean he actually thinks getting a portion of this coin is worth ruining his entire coins reputation over? I feel sorry for anyone invested in eclipse.

Eclipse should be crushed now after this. I would not be investing with a coin that has a dev like that.

Steem needs to be cloned and given a fair launch. I'm sure that will happen soon.

That's the issue with open source. You create something and if you don't launch it fairly your project is just branded a scam. Then others can clone it and keep it scam free.

Xcoin got away with it a bit up until now since they kept it closed source long enough to build a good head start. These steeming unfair devs will not have that luxury I hope.

[smooth]

I can't decide if this is a scam or not. I'm not kidding it is an honestly unfair coin apparently hehe

I agree. "Honestly unfair" LOL.

It is one of he most interesting not-quite-sure-if-this-is-a-scam coins ever.

Is it a scam if they basically tell you up front they are scamming you?

Tricky and interesting.

unfair is not much better than scam....the difference with a scam is you usually only discover it is unfair after the fact. In this case you are told it is unfair from the start although just how unfair was not discovered until eclipse crypto dev pointed it out.. Although why they have put no premine and no instamine ....nobody reasonably examining it would agree with that. Especially as eclipse dev proved they had 100 miners on it mining to different addresses to cover the fact they were instamining as hard as they could with as little competition as they could.

Saying they were trying to "cover the fact" that they were mining a lot seems wrong since they said they were doing it (see below), and although they had lots of different miner names, the names were mostly of the form steamit99. It wasn't hidden at all.

Post #3 on the thread:

Accounts:
root, admin, administrator, steem, any, moderator, and unknown plus anything starting with steemit are our own mining efforts.

Those were all highly visible, as the code displayed the name of every miner when they solved a block (this has apparently since been turned off). It was easy to see they were mining most of the blocks.

You have to take Eclipse Dev's comments in the right context. I think he was both FUDding to discourage participation and just plain trolling.

Second, there's only 3 more weeks left of true mining before delegated mining kicks in. Delegated mining is when the devs pick 19 "witnesses" to mine. Maybe they might pick one or two legit miners, but the most likely scenario, given the scam they have perpetrated so far, is that they will pick at least 17 instances of themselves to mine.

There are indeed 19 elected witnesses. Fair enough to assume those are all rigged. However, in addition there is one witness slot that will continue to use pure PoW mining and one that will be round-robin chosen from all configured witnesses (that don't get elected)

So there will continue to be a small slice of coins distributed to outsiders. Is that enough to matter? Maybe, maybe not. You decide.

[jwinterm]

My post that got deleted from relaunch thread:

[/quote]

[generalizethis]

Isn't honestly-unfair just another terminology for BS? Here, we created a lottery that only lottery employees can win, do you want to buy a ticket?

I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would fall for this, but my guess is some people just skim over most of the media and arrive at their own conclusions--maybe they should have a disclaimer: all misreadings are the sole responsibility of the reader as we've stated that we are going to mine the shit out of it and not let you have any meaningful portion of control--suck it, idiot! Which the naïve or greedy miner reads as Don't misread, our sole responsibility is to the miner, whom we plan on giving a shit-ton to and letting have total control--scam coins suck and are run by idiots!.

[smooth]

Isn't honestly-unfair just another terminology for BS? Here, we created a lottery that only lottery employees can win, do you want to buy a ticket?

It kind of reminds me of the sign on the top of some slot machines that says 97% payback. I.e. we are taking 3% of your money everytime you play if you sit here. It's a scam, but it's an 'honest scam', and people sit there anyway. Humans...

[cryptohunter]

for me it is a scam.

1. if they just said at the start we are going to mine a ton of it and keep and vest it for ourselves and if you want to be a mug and mine some you can. then it would just be very unfair.

Rather they put no instamine no premine - suggesting fairness but then shafting everyone.

2. why try to hide they were mining on 100 different wallets? another sign of dishonesty.

3. they then come out with some excuse that they are made to do it like this because it is more legal to perform a captive instamine than a premine.


I voted scam after thinking it over for a while.

Hopefully  a dev will be coming forward to clone it with a fair start for everyone very soon.

Has much work gone into this? I can not tell?

Has someone just mated hodl with bitshares?

To clone this how much work for a developer at this time?

[smooth]

1. if they just said at the start we are going to mine a ton of it and keep and vest it for ourselves and if you want to be a mug and mine some you can. then it would just be very unfair.

That is what they said.

Rather they put no instamine no premine - suggesting fairness but then shafting everyone.

That's a bit absurd and sleazy I agree.

2. why try to hide they were mining on 100 different wallets? another sign of dishonesty.

I don't see how they hid that. They said they were doing it and literally anyone who ran a node saw constant messages every few seconds saying "steemit42" or "steemit17" or whatever mined a block. How was this hidden?

3. they then change come out with some excuse that they are made to do it like this because it is more legal to perform a captive instamine than a premine.

Change? They never claimed anything else.

[generalizethis]

for me it is a scam.

1. if they just said at the start we are going to mine a ton of it and keep and vest it for ourselves and if you want to be a mug and mine some you can. then it would just be very unfair.

Rather they put no instamine no premine - suggesting fairness but then shafting everyone.

2. why try to hide they were mining on 100 different wallets? another sign of dishonesty.

3. they then come out with some excuse that they are made to do it like this because it is more legal to perform a captive instamine than a premine.


I voted scam after thinking it over for a while.

Hopefully  a dev will be coming forward to clone it with a fair start for everyone very soon.

Has much work gone into this? I can not tell?

Has someone just mated hodl with bitshares?

To clone this how much work for a developer at this time?

I think the simpler question is: Does it do anything worth cloning?

Also, can one of the options be scammish? As it really depends on you not understanding what they are saying, though "no premine" is the type of truth in advertising I expect from some of the other BS artists in the alt section--so probably scam, though one of the most honest scams out there.

[smooth]

scammish

That's my vote

I don't like the "NO PREMINE" etc. crap. That is trying to sell itself as "fair", which is dishonest in spirit even if not literally. They should have just owned it: "NO FAIRNESS"

[smooth]

Has much work gone into this? I can not tell?

There's a lot of work in it, and it isn't just hodlshares. The white paper is 42 pages of meaningful content (though not mathematically dense or anything). It's only available on their slack I think, but their slack is public.

[cryptohunter]

It smells of xcoin / darkcoin to me.

I don't like honestly unfair much more than I like full scam.


I'm not sure if it is worth cloning or not. I only would like to see it done so it would teach them a lesson for being so honestly UNFAIR.

How long to copy and paste it is what I am wondering?

fair steem has a ring to it. We could even be reasonable honest and fair and give them a 1% chunk premined for their hard work of developing it -  make it nice and fair.

Sorry though it will be an announced launch with windows qt so the entire community can have a honestly fair crack at it. We'll honestly announce 1% premine and give it to these honest folk for taking the time to create it.

[generalizethis]

It smells of xcoin / darkcoin to me.

I don't like honestly unfair much more than I like full scam.


I'm not sure if it is worth cloning or not. I only would like to see it done so it would teach them a lesson for being so honestly UNFAIR.

How long to copy and paste it is what I am wondering?

fair steem has a ring to it. We could even be reasonable and give them a 1% chunk premined for their hard work of developing it -  make it nice and fair.

Sorry though it will be an announced launch with windows qt so the entire community can have a honestly fair crack at it. We'll honestly announce 1% premine and give it to these honest folk for taking the time to create it.

The only thing I'd suggest is that cloning a coin to teach scammers a lesson is scamming the investors out of a legitimate technology if that technology is pointless or the technology already exist in a more developed or more technology sound manner.

Just sayin'

Though I think more than a few people would like to teach scammers a lesson and it isn't a bad sales pitch--I'd probably buy a few undash if they were removed of the masterscam nodes.

[cryptohunter]

It smells of xcoin / darkcoin to me.

I don't like honestly unfair much more than I like full scam.


I'm not sure if it is worth cloning or not. I only would like to see it done so it would teach them a lesson for being so honestly UNFAIR.

How long to copy and paste it is what I am wondering?

fair steem has a ring to it. We could even be reasonable and give them a 1% chunk premined for their hard work of developing it -  make it nice and fair.

Sorry though it will be an announced launch with windows qt so the entire community can have a honestly fair crack at it. We'll honestly announce 1% premine and give it to these honest folk for taking the time to create it.

The only thing I'd suggest is that cloning a coin to teach scammers a lesson is scamming the investors out of a legitimate technology if that technology is pointless or the technology already exist in a more developed or more technology sound manner.

Just sayin'

Though I think more than a few people would like to teach scammers a lesson and it isn't a bad sales pitch--I'd probably buy a few undash if they were removed of the masterscam nodes.

Yeah the only thing is with this idea.

If fairsteem became the accepted fork or version and people supported it over steem (which they would) then the devs are now faced with a problem. They would be best to take the 1% and either dump and start a new idea or join fair steem.

Lesson learned no more Honestly unfair releases. Just honestly fair from now on.

Devs can be rewarded of course. 1% or even 3% of total minting perhaps even more if held by escrows and full ledger of expenses.  No more we take as much as we like and do what we want and either don't tell you or we do tell you and say tough luck. Sorry that is not acceptable at all. All those giving this type of scheme the benefit of the doubt are in fact enabling not only this scam but future scams of the same ilk. Soon we'll have a load of xcoin launches on our hands with the disclaimer - sorry its all so unfair now. It's the governments fault we are powerless to stop the unfairness they are forcing us to inflict upon you. But don't worry we are being honest so you have nothing to complain about.

It's not going to cost miners much to slap a few cpu's on it at the start just to get the distribution magnitudes wider than it is now. I have no idea if it holds anything interesting or new about it at all. That to me is neither here nor there... if it is not fair it needs to be crushed and restarted.

Often i notice things that look like they are non starters are allowed to slip along with unfair starts....they look unattractive , pointless etc etc. Then when the devs have all the coins they suddenly start doing them up and building the value. This eclipse dev seems to think it is worth destroying his reputation and eclipse crypto over. So perhaps there is something of value here. Unless he's a full on maniac who just wants steem tokens with no underlying reason. I don't really know. Smooth seems less opposed to it that i expected considering this is a full on xcoin launch claiming no instamine and no premine (like xcoin) but then saying  we will mine it all up.  I'm glad he is coming down with scammish and unfair at least.

On a scale of 1-10 with dash being 10 this to me is a 9 in disgusting tactics. 10 is the worst of course.

This vesting and the cost to vest increasing (although i have not looked into it fully) seems almost as bad as masternodes and minting slashing.

No matter how much you have or how interesting it is. scam is scam, unfair is unfair. Unfair is not essentially scam but it is not much of an improvement and should be treated the same way.

[cryptofanus79]

whats going on with bitrex ,now scm listing??  money talks richie?

[brekyrself]

Not a scam, just need to perform some due diligence.

https://soundcloud.com/beyond-bitcoin-hangouts/e149

[smooth]

Not a scam, just need to perform some due diligence.

https://soundcloud.com/beyond-bitcoin-hangouts/e149

That was long after launch.

[00lakhwinder00]

STEEM -85% @ bittrex

[cryptohunter]

STEEM -85% @ bittrex

-100% would be the only fair price.

this type of xcoin captive instamine scam (because we have to do it this way) is a joke. Many thought it was an april fools.

[FandangledGizmo]

I posted this reply in another thread of yours but probably more appropriate in this one, I'm also not a fan of STEEM atm.

I'm not a fan of STEEM myself.

The pros are that their lead dev, 'reverseflash' is probably Bytemaster, who's definitely one of the most talented devs in crypto imo and was given an honourable mention as one of the most influential people in Bitcoin in 2014 http://www.coindesk.com/10-influential-people-bitcoin-year/ The actual DAC itself looks interesting.

The negatives are that while they don't mention it in their Bitcointalk announement https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1410943.0

They mined 80% of the initial STEEM themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22125.0.html

We have secured ~80% of the initial STEEM via mining.  

They are also hoping all their total supply will count towards their valuation, even though 99.5% is locked-up/vesting (not 'available supply' imo )and a large portion of that will be from STEEM they mined themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22125.msg288854.html#msg288854

Only 0.47% of STEEM is liquid in individual accounts, this is going to make the pump on CMC legend... wait-for-it... dary!

I'd....

(My personal view is that if a lot of coins mined >80% of the initial coins to themselves and had >99.5%+ non liquid & that all counted towards 'available supply' then you would have hundreds/thousands of coins seemingly worth >$10 million with minuscule, possibly manipulated volume which would seriously undermine crypto valuations.)

They also haven't provided a windows wallet yet so most regular buyers are being heavily diluted with the dilution going back to them being the biggest holders currently.

If one were to buy steem.....is it currently possible to vest the steem if you are NOT technically proficient?  Is there a windows wallet yet?
If you cannot vest, then is it true that you would be at a significant disadvantage so there would be very little point in holding for the long term?

Yea there's no windows wallet yet so you'd be unable to vest your Steem. That leaves you vulnerable to inflation in the long term so just holding is probably not a great idea.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22125.135.html

(As far as I can tell the BitShares community is not a fan of the project in general either and they relegate all STEEM related posts to the 'random discussion' section of their forum.)

[fuznutts]

Scam is one hell of an incorrect word.  Unfair maybe...but then again I could apply the same logic of not having windows binaries to the argument for mining in general. 

I mean how "unfair" is it that I can't mine bitcoin like those with ASICs (and the money to buy them) do?  Doubt i'll hear much from the community on this, but I can assure you those who hold steem have a team of devs who are among the best blockchain devs in the world who are intent on building value.

[cryptohunter]

Scam is one hell of an incorrect word.  Unfair maybe...but then again I could apply the same logic of not having windows binaries to the argument for mining in general.  

I mean how "unfair" is it that I can't mine bitcoin like those with ASICs (and the money to buy them) do?  Doubt i'll hear much from the community on this, but I can assure you those who hold steem have a team of devs who are among the best blockchain devs in the world who are intent on building value.

building value for who though?

has anyone done any kind of audit on the dev wallets. Does it all look legit ? are the steem tokens going to real posters for creating new content? I wonder. If so then no problem. What are the odds of it being like that though??

Either way there are a few others that made a FORTUNE being in on the instamine that are not related to the dev team. I wonder how much eclipse dev stashed away whilst claiming it was a scam from the start.

I wonder if deep analysis of the steem instamine would throw up some interesting insights.

[raphma]

Scam is one hell of an incorrect word.  Unfair maybe...but then again I could apply the same logic of not having windows binaries to the argument for mining in general. 

I mean how "unfair" is it that I can't mine bitcoin like those with ASICs (and the money to buy them) do?  Doubt i'll hear much from the community on this, but I can assure you those who hold steem have a team of devs who are among the best blockchain devs in the world who are intent on building value.

it's an old thread but still, i agree with you. the only thing i would change is: It's DEFINITELY unfair, not maybe.
Whales hold the power.. i've seen great posts about how unsustainable steemit is, or how scamishy it looks like, none of them were well paid, NONE, and most of it were good post like this one. But a makeup tutorial worth 30k...

[iamnotback]

It is not only unfair in the way it was launched, but the way it was launched may also mean the funding model may not work (<--- click my link).

So they may have shot themselves in the foot.

The word scam is ambiguous. Is Ethereum a scam because they don't tell us they have a bot doing price manipulation on the exchanges? Isn't it obvious enough.

[vlom]

i think it is only unfair. after i read this it was clear for me:

Powering down turns steem power into steem over the course of 2 years with one payout per week.

two years? who will remember that there was something called steemit in two years?

it is a ponzi too.

[CoinHoarder]

Scam is one hell of an incorrect word.  Unfair maybe...but then again I could apply the same logic of not having windows binaries to the argument for mining in general. 

I mean how "unfair" is it that I can't mine bitcoin like those with ASICs (and the money to buy them) do?  Doubt i'll hear much from the community on this, but I can assure you those who hold steem have a team of devs who are among the best blockchain devs in the world who are intent on building value.

Get out of here with your solid logic and reasoning. This thread is meant to ignore the general unfairness of all other cryptocurrencies and single out Steemit for something that exists in all cryptocurrencies... unfairness! We all know how the sock puppets that have been attacking Steemit up and down the forums are going to vote. Bitcointalk polls are worthless.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

[smooth]

@decentralized, as far as I can tell Stan has nothing to do with Steem.

[yudy]

iam not interest steem coin but several day later iam trade and profit
why iam not interest because i can't regiseter in steem dot com iam very late register

[DecentralizeEconomics]

@decentralized, as far as I can tell Stan has nothing to do with Steem.

I just picked myself up off the floor after I fell off my chair from laughing so hard.

Seriously now... Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that?

[MrComputerCodes]

I think it's unfair! The dev should pay me personally.

FUCK YOU, PAY ME  as the cool kids say nowadays

[smooth]

@decentralized, as far as I can tell Stan has nothing to do with Steem.

I just picked myself up off the floor after I fell off my chair from laughing so hard.

Seriously now... Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that?

What's the incentive to lie. Few people in this world even seem to care outside of you.

[Spoetnik]

Is it a currency ?

No ?

scam..

[bones261]

Is it a currency ?

No ?

scam..

I'm surprised it took you this long to catch a whiff of this. It's quite a strong odor. All the dogs are gathering, and doing the crypto equivalency to leg humping. 

[Spoetnik]

Is it a currency ?

No ?

scam..

I'm surprised it took you this long to catch a whiff of this. It's quite a strong odor. All the dogs are gathering, and doing the crypto equivalency to leg humping. 

I have had a few servings of FUD salad for them lately.. i just did not lay it on thick LOL

By the way good first post OP !

[altcoinrich]

It is definitely a scam, because dev team reserves large proportion of the total supply.

And some ordinary got lots of money, which is very very unfair. If more coin released, definitely the price will be down in the long term.

[generalizethis]

It is definitely a scam, because dev team reserves large proportion of the total supply.

And some ordinary got lots of money, which is very very unfair. If more coin released, definitely the price will be down in the long term.

I'm pretty sure if you would have handed it over to the internet that you would have gotten Porny McPorn face on the proverbial Test Ethenate treadmill to primal instinct gone banana strokin' 24/7. (just sayin')

[DecentralizeEconomics]

@decentralized, as far as I can tell Stan has nothing to do with Steem.

I just picked myself up off the floor after I fell off my chair from laughing so hard.

Seriously now... Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that?

What's the incentive to lie. Few people in this world even seem to care outside of you.

You can't honestly sit there with a straight face and tell us that Stan Larimer has nothing to do with Steem.  Come on get real.  You know as well as I do that Stan and Dan are the father and son conman team from hell and whatever one is involved in the other is too.  If you actually believe Stan isn't involved in Steem, you're deluding yourself.

[smooth]

@decentralized, as far as I can tell Stan has nothing to do with Steem.

I just picked myself up off the floor after I fell off my chair from laughing so hard.

Seriously now... Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that?

What's the incentive to lie. Few people in this world even seem to care outside of you.

You can't honestly sit there with a straight face and tell us that Stan Larimer has nothing to do with Steem.  Come on get real.  You know as well as I do that Stan and Dan are the father and son conman team from hell and whatever one is involved in the other is too.  If you actually believe Stan isn't involved in Steem, you're deluding yourself.

I am among the ~7.4 billion people on this planet who don't give a fuck if Stan is involved or not. However, I've seen no evidence that the is.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

@decentralized, as far as I can tell Stan has nothing to do with Steem.

I just picked myself up off the floor after I fell off my chair from laughing so hard.

Seriously now... Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that?

What's the incentive to lie. Few people in this world even seem to care outside of you.

You can't honestly sit there with a straight face and tell us that Stan Larimer has nothing to do with Steem.  Come on get real.  You know as well as I do that Stan and Dan are the father and son conman team from hell and whatever one is involved in the other is too.  If you actually believe Stan isn't involved in Steem, you're deluding yourself.

I am among the ~7.4 billion people on this planet who don't give a fuck if Stan is involved or not. However, I've seen no evidence that the is.

[iamnotback]

@bacchist is trying to lie and hide the fact that Steem is an exponential compounding system:

https://steemit.com/interest/@bacchist/steem-power-interest-is-not-compound-interest

[DecentralizeEconomics]

@bacchist is trying to lie and hide the fact that Steem is an exponential compounding system:

https://steemit.com/interest/@bacchist/steem-power-interest-is-not-compound-interest

You know anybody who supports the Larimers and their scams are lying pieces of trash.

[MadCow]

@bacchist is trying to lie and hide the fact that Steem is an exponential compounding system:

https://steemit.com/interest/@bacchist/steem-power-interest-is-not-compound-interest

I'm coining the phrase, "to post a STEEMING link" , I predict it will rival "to google" one day

[boomboom]

@bacchist is trying to lie and hide the fact that Steem is an exponential compounding system:

https://steemit.com/interest/@bacchist/steem-power-interest-is-not-compound-interest

I'm coining the phrase, "to post a STEEMING link" , I predict it will rival "to google" one day

i prefer 'forge a STEEMING link' ...

[cryptohunter]

the presence of smooth and his monero cronies and their constant attacking other 'rivals' in this space sais it all..........

Please keep appraised of current affairs.

Smooth is not attacking steem at all. Why would he?

He is merely saying that it was not fair to say no premine then conduct a captive instamine which is essentially the same thing. He has a ton of steem so even saying that seems more than most would say in the same position.

[BTCTT]

The most elaborate Pyramid scheme I have ever seen in the crypto world... It gives BTC a bad reputation! It's not going to end up well

[smooth]

the presence of smooth and his monero cronies and their constant attacking other 'rivals' in this space sais it all..........

Please keep appraised of current affairs.

Smooth is not attacking steem at all. Why would he?

He is merely saying that it was not fair to say no premine then conduct a captive instamine which is essentially the same thing. He has a ton of steem so even saying that seems more than most would say in the same position.

That's a fair summary of what I have said and will continue to say if I see anyone try to promote Steem as having no premine and with a fair and transparent launch.

I said the same thing about Dash, which still says in its OP:

"Dash has no premine and was fairly and transparently launched"

Now I'm looking at the Steem thread OP, and I see nothing about "no premine" or "fairly and transparently launched"

[kennyP]

the presence of smooth and his monero cronies and their constant attacking other 'rivals' in this space sais it all..........

Please keep appraised of current affairs.

Smooth is not attacking steem at all. Why would he?

He is merely saying that it was not fair to say no premine then conduct a captive instamine which is essentially the same thing. He has a ton of steem so even saying that seems more than most would say in the same position.

That's a fair summary of what I have said and will continue to say if I see anyone try to promote Steem as having no premine and with a fair and transparent launch.

I said the same thing about Dash, which still says in its OP:

"Dash has no premine and was fairly and transparently launched"

Now I'm looking at the Steem thread OP, and I see nothing about "no premine" or "fairly and transparently launched"

Eventually this "might" become a difficult situation for smooth.

Hypothetically, if someone unknowingly profits from involvement with a defective product then they haven't done anything wrong ethically, but if they knowingly profit by lying about the product (e.g. DASH) then they obviously have.

What about when they knowingly profit from the defective product, but they never actually claimed it was 'good' in the first place, they just let the buyer make there own choice, even though they had doubts about the product (maybe) themselves. That seems to be smooth's stance here - he doesn't promote the product, but he isn't criticizing it much either.

Best analogy would probably be a drug dealer. Is it cool to sell 'tainted' drugs to people who you suspect it'll hurt?

I suppose it ultimately depends on whether smooth believes STEEM is a defective product. All cryptos are basically ponzi schemes, but STEEM does have more worrying elements

[generalizethis]

the presence of smooth and his monero cronies and their constant attacking other 'rivals' in this space sais it all..........

Please keep appraised of current affairs.

Smooth is not attacking steem at all. Why would he?

He is merely saying that it was not fair to say no premine then conduct a captive instamine which is essentially the same thing. He has a ton of steem so even saying that seems more than most would say in the same position.

Not saying he is attacking steem.......

Then what are you saying?

[cryptohunter]

@decentralized, as far as I can tell Stan has nothing to do with Steem.

I just picked myself up off the floor after I fell off my chair from laughing so hard.

Seriously now... Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that?

What's the incentive to lie. Few people in this world even seem to care outside of you.

You can't honestly sit there with a straight face and tell us that Stan Larimer has nothing to do with Steem.  Come on get real.  You know as well as I do that Stan and Dan are the father and son conman team from hell and whatever one is involved in the other is too.  If you actually believe Stan isn't involved in Steem, you're deluding yourself.

I am among the ~7.4 billion people on this planet who don't give a fuck if Stan is involved or not. However, I've seen no evidence that the is.

Then again if there is strong evidence that "Dan" has scammed before ( i have never seen such evidence if it exists) then all 7.4 billion persons should give a fuck if he is involved. Scammers and their projects need to be made pariahs else we will never weed them out and will continue to let them reward themselves with huge chunks of these alt currencies. The fact they are smart coders and designers is not a reason enough to let them continue to scam over and over (this is not a statement about the larimers singularly since I have no knowledge that they are known scammers )


If there is no evidence the larimers are scammers nor evidence they are related to steem the point seems mute.

I have no idea if it is an honest way to distribute the currency in return for content else an elaborate way to scam millions of dollars for themselves.

-- question to the board  ---

1. what concrete evidence exists that the larimers are scammers or dishonest?
2. what evidence is there that they are related to steem?
3. How manipulated is the steem market cap and price?


I would love to see a deep analysis of the steem chain and the ledgers if they exist for the payouts. I mean look how in depth people dug into the darkcoin instamine.

How could the devs game/extract huge amounts of steem and what measures are in place to stop them doing so?


 

[smooth]

@cryptohunter, Dan and Stan are two different people. Dan is clearly involved as co-founder and lead deleveloper. Stan is not obviously involved in any active way, though it is possible he made some passive investment.

As far as analyzing the blockchain, that can certainly be done. It is rather more trivial than darkcoin, at least from the perspective of early mining, because no aspect of the insiders mining 80% was hidden. Aside from the fact that they said they were doing exactly that on the thread when they launched it, the coins were mined by accounts with the name steemit00, steemit01, etc. (along with a few others like moderator and administrator) and then moved to an account named 'steemit'. You don't need to be an expert blockchain analyzer to figure that out.

As far as evidence of literal scamming, I've haven't seen it. But I never followed Bitshares (Dan's previous project, in which Stan was also directly involved) that closely so I don't know.

[BTCTT]

Look how easy it is for a whale to make money

https://steemit.com/money/@ubg/welcome-to-my-money-farm

what a joke!

[GreenBits]

Don't really see the scam potential in this. Did they ICO? If they did, I'm pretty sure you can exit as we speak with profit. They aren't asking for value, for once. They are actually generating it, at least, the users are.