[POLL] !!!!STEEM is it a SCAM !!!!- or only honestly unfair??? you decide.

[cryptohunter]

I can't decide if this is a scam or not. I'm not kidding it is an honestly unfair coin apparently hehe

IF YOU WANT CLIFF NOTES OF THIS SKIP TO MY 2ND POST BELOW TO REVIEW ECLIPSE CRYPTOS INTIAL ACCUSATIONS AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE HE SUPPLIES TO BACK UP HIS SCAM CLAIMS.


clip from eclipse crypto dev - below...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The reasoning behind not having windows binaries is that the devs continue to use their insider knowledge to fuck over the community.

The list of how they do this is growing longer.

Most recently you will notice that they offered someone a position as a witness. How are they able to offer this position? Because they have now secured all control over this coin by using this concept of vests. This coin is COMPLETELY CENTRALIZED NOW.

Here's how they did it:

First, they did a typical instamine/flashmine/freemine scam (yes scam) where they released

(1) no compiled wallets
(2) no instructions to build
(3) incomplete and inaccurate instructions to mine

This wasn't bad enough. After the first 12 or so hours of mining, all their miners crashed, exposing that they were mining to 100 different witnesses to hide the fact that they (he) was one entity. The devs wouldn't have been caught except that their mining instructions were wrong, and no one else was mining because, even if they couldn't get the client to build, they entered mining commands that caused them to get no blocks. The devs will claim this isn't on purpose, but check the original thread. You'll see that no one mined a block when the dev's miners were down.

Then, as I have stated many times, when their miners crashed again, I mined a significant amount of steem that night in their absence. To prevent my vesting that and driving the price of vests up on them, they relaunched to ensure COMPLETE CONTROL AND CENTRALIZATION.

After the relaunch, no one would challenge them on mining because if they did, the devs would just relaunch this scamcoin again. So, no one who pays attention (and the people who have the means to procure whatever hashes they want are also the people who are paying attention), would challenge them on the hashes. As they hoped, no one did and they completely dominated the hashes for 1 week.

Now after 1 week of hashing, they dump all their coins into vests, where the price of a vest goes up with the amount vested. This is not your typical stakeholding where one unit of currency is worth one stake. This is on purpose so that they can COMPLETELY CONTROL THIS COIN IN A CENTRALIZED WAY after just 1 week.

Vests don't cost 1 STEEM anymore like they did when the devs bought them. They now cost 5 STEEM. That means that you will need to dominate all the hashes for 5 weeks just to match the control the devs have after 1 week. They have driven your costs up by 5, not using the market, as should be done, but by using this freemine/threat-of-relaunch scam.

So, why don't we all just mine for 5 weeks and decentralize control ourselves? There are two main reasons.

First, anyone who is paying attention (this includes all smart people with BTC to throw at things like this) won't dump money on a scam like this. So you are going to get a bunch of gullible small timers who don't have the foresight to convert to vests anyway, even if vests were legit. The small timers just want to get a profit asap.

Second, there's only 3 more weeks left of true mining before delegated mining kicks in. Delegated mining is when the devs pick 19 "witnesses" to mine. Maybe they might pick one or two legit miners, but the most likely scenario, given the scam they have perpetrated so far, is that they will pick at least 17 instances of themselves to mine.

In other words, it's impossible now to decentralize this coin because the devs have rigged it since the beginning. Not only that, they will be getting all the coins, unchallenged, for as small of a price as they want to pay.

------------------------------------------------------

The dev says it is not a scam there is no premine and no instamine. Sadly no windows qt for miners by desire so he has less mining competition, if he does get too much competition he will reset the coin again.

Then there was this guy

eclipse crypto - screaming it was a scam and they reset the coin because he mined more than the devs. He produced some evidence he mined a lot of steem tokens just before they reset the coin and relaunched it.

I mean we should believe him right?? he is a dev for some eclipse crypto. Would devs lie and admit it in public??

BUT wait now he is saying he was just fudding so he could mine more??? this guy is  a developer??

Anyway after a while it was decided it is not a scam because the developer of this coin steem says openly it is NOT MEANT TO BE FAIR?

So you can launch coins that are UNFAIR so long as you are honest??? I kind of agree this is better than saying it is fair and then making it unfair?

All you need to do is read the thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1410943.0

or old one

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1408726.0


Even if it is not a scam best all get over there now and mine it so they can't keep it all. Go widen that distribution. Don't let them vest it all and drip it out for huge returns.

Also make sure to avoid eclipse coin or whatever junk this dev pumps out because if steem is not a scam and he was just screaming scam to mine more steem then he must be a scammer or at the best very dishonest. I would not trust him as dev of any project because scamming is just chess to him.

Someone took HODL and mated it with bitshares?

No need for discussion read the thread and just vote ....it's a scam or it's not a scam.

All very confusing

1. is steem a scam? or just honestly unfair?
2. is eclipse crypto dev account hacked ?
3. is eclipse crypto correct and that fudding when all the while trying to mine more for yourself just like chess??
4. is eclipse cryto the coin to be trusted?

Is this the new breed of honestly unfair releases because it's all the govs fault for regulation.




Steeming pile of scam or steeming great coin idea. Hodl and bitshares combined.

Get your VPS on it now and get vesting. Or write it off as a scam. That's the question I guess.



Also please leave a comment so I can judge who you think is better or worse bad or least good out of

1.steem dev with his honestly very unfair coin which he tried to mine looking like 100 different people

or

2. eclipse crypto dev - who reveals it for being very unfair and even calls it a scam only to then say he was fudding and mining all along and now begging for witness status?

I mean who is least bad here? Please let me know.

[cryptohunter]

Here is what i first read by eclipse crypto dev

"The reasoning behind not having windows binaries is that the devs continue to use their insider knowledge to fuck over the community.

The list of how they do this is growing longer.

Most recently you will notice that they offered someone a position as a witness. How are they able to offer this position? Because they have now secured all control over this coin by using this concept of vests. This coin is COMPLETELY CENTRALIZED NOW.

Here's how they did it:

First, they did a typical instamine/flashmine/freemine scam (yes scam) where they released

(1) no compiled wallets
(2) no instructions to build
(3) incomplete and inaccurate instructions to mine

This wasn't bad enough. After the first 12 or so hours of mining, all their miners crashed, exposing that they were mining to 100 different witnesses to hide the fact that they (he) was one entity. The devs wouldn't have been caught except that their mining instructions were wrong, and no one else was mining because, even if they couldn't get the client to build, they entered mining commands that caused them to get no blocks. The devs will claim this isn't on purpose, but check the original thread. You'll see that no one mined a block when the dev's miners were down.

Then, as I have stated many times, when their miners crashed again, I mined a significant amount of steem that night in their absence. To prevent my vesting that and driving the price of vests up on them, they relaunched to ensure COMPLETE CONTROL AND CENTRALIZATION.

After the relaunch, no one would challenge them on mining because if they did, the devs would just relaunch this scamcoin again. So, no one who pays attention (and the people who have the means to procure whatever hashes they want are also the people who are paying attention), would challenge them on the hashes. As they hoped, no one did and they completely dominated the hashes for 1 week.

Now after 1 week of hashing, they dump all their coins into vests, where the price of a vest goes up with the amount vested. This is not your typical stakeholding where one unit of currency is worth one stake. This is on purpose so that they can COMPLETELY CONTROL THIS COIN IN A CENTRALIZED WAY after just 1 week.

Vests don't cost 1 STEEM anymore like they did when the devs bought them. They now cost 5 STEEM. That means that you will need to dominate all the hashes for 5 weeks just to match the control the devs have after 1 week. They have driven your costs up by 5, not using the market, as should be done, but by using this freemine/threat-of-relaunch scam.

So, why don't we all just mine for 5 weeks and decentralize control ourselves? There are two main reasons.

First, anyone who is paying attention (this includes all smart people with BTC to throw at things like this) won't dump money on a scam like this. So you are going to get a bunch of gullible small timers who don't have the foresight to convert to vests anyway, even if vests were legit. The small timers just want to get a profit asap.

Second, there's only 3 more weeks left of true mining before delegated mining kicks in. Delegated mining is when the devs pick 19 "witnesses" to mine. Maybe they might pick one or two legit miners, but the most likely scenario, given the scam they have perpetrated so far, is that they will pick at least 17 instances of themselves to mine.

In other words, it's impossible now to decentralize this coin because the devs have rigged it since the beginning. Not only that, they will be getting all the coins, unchallenged, for as small of a price as they want to pay.

By the way, I'm keeping track here. The devs are going to have to stay low and so will this coin. If it ever gets big, then these devs will be fucked because they will not be able to deny they control the entire currency."


Then I read this a page later from eclipse crypto dev

"And I've been mining while I've been fudding.

Hate me? Consider it "chess". Wink

TOTAL                  1357.000 STEEM    3676.733594 VESTS            0.000 SBD "


Eclipse crypto dev latest one

"I think you have a great idea here and am interested in being a witness, so I'm going to lay down my creds.

First of all, the Eclipse Crypto account is a join developer account. I originally used it to post in this thread because I was logged in as this account and forgot to log out. I thought it would be a one-off post but then it kind of exploded. The other Eclipse developers have been *very* understanding, and my apparent lunacy here is in no way a reflection of the Eclipse team.

From now on, I'll post in this thread as "Bubba-Gump".



Was he paid off in steems or just was fudding and scamming all along? either way would you want a dev like this in charge of your eclipse crypto currency. I would be selling that at once if I had any I would be.

[MisO69]

The coin launched with only a source code on github. How many coins have been called a scam because of this same scenario? Let me give you a hint, all of them.

There are so many red flags here all one has to do is read the OP and the first page.

The launch was designed to give the developers and anyone competent a large advantage. So yes its a scam. The only reason you question it is because you know what your doing and are happily mining away.

[cryptohunter]

The coin launched with only a source code on github. How many coins have been called a scam because of this same scenario? Let me give you a hint, all of them.

There are so many red flags here all one has to do is read the OP and the first page.

The launch was designed to give the developers and anyone competent a large advantage. So yes its a scam. The only reason you question it is because you know what your doing and are happily mining away.

a source code with no build instructions i heard...??

also incomplete mining instructions

You got a problem with that ?

Did you miss the bit where it has to be reset if you did manage to mine too much??

Still how are you sure it's a scam? maybe just honestly unfair?? haha

I think we need to be sure it is a scam before we brand it as one. I must say though....looks like, smells like, walks like.....


Can I interest you in some steem tokens perhaps....freshly mined still steeming....?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Lol, new coin most likely= scam.  Don't even have to read that whole thing you compiled, but you are very thorough.  Unless a new coin has features that make it better than all the other coins that are already on the market, said coin has no reason to exist.

[cryptohunter]

Lol, new coin most likely= scam.  Don't even have to read that whole thing you compiled, but you are very thorough.  Unless a new coin has features that make it better than all the other coins that are already on the market, said coin has no reason to exist.

Exactly

But this time I didn't even compile that big list. The eclipse crypto dev did. But now he has had a change of heart it would seem and it's not a scam after all now that he has some

[cryptohunter]

Still unfolding it seems.

[billotronic]

I dont really care about this coin or your thoughts on it

BUT

I think its lazy that you cannot cook your own damn wallet. You are more secure if you actually look at the source code of what you are running and learn a little about how it works. Running precompiled bin's that solely deal with something of 'worth' is butt fucking retarded. Get off your ass, compile your own bins.

[cryptohunter]

I dont really care about this coin or your thoughts on it

BUT

I think its lazy that you cannot cook your own damn wallet. You are more secure if you actually look at the source code of what you are running and learn a little about how it works. Running precompiled bin's that solely deal with something of 'worth' is butt fucking retarded. Get off your ass, compile your own bins.

I'm very sad to hear that you're not the caring type.

Even so. If you go back and read the thread through you will notice that is not the main issue here.

Please try again.

I will quiz you if you post here again to check you have read and fully understood the level of underhanded methods this dev has tried to not only mine most of the coins himself but to conceal the facts too.

If you were not too lazy to read through what I have posted you will notice that I did not discover this scam myself it was discovered by the eclipse crypto dev.

[smooth]

I can't decide if this is a scam or not. I'm not kidding it is an honestly unfair coin apparently hehe

I agree. "Honestly unfair" LOL.

It is one of he most interesting not-quite-sure-if-this-is-a-scam coins ever.

Is it a scam if they basically tell you up front they are scamming you?

Tricky and interesting.

[cryptohunter]

I can't decide if this is a scam or not. I'm not kidding it is an honestly unfair coin apparently hehe

I agree. "Honestly unfair" LOL.

It is one of he most interesting not-quite-sure-if-this-is-a-scam coins ever.

Is it a scam if they basically tell you up front they are scamming you?

Tricky and interesting.

unfair is not much better than scam....the difference with a scam is you usually only discover it is unfair after the fact. In this case you are told it is unfair from the start although just how unfair was not discovered until eclipse crypto dev pointed it out.. Although why they have put no premine and no instamine ....nobody reasonably examining it would agree with that. Especially as eclipse dev proved they had 100 miners on it mining to different addresses to cover the fact they were instamining as hard as they could with as little competition as they could. I mean they even later on admit they are instamining it all because they claim it is illegal to have a premine.

The biggest slime ball in that thread is the eclipse crypto dev. He essentially is now a known scammer and liar. The fact he is actually wanting to be a witness now is totally weird. After all he said. I mean he actually thinks getting a portion of this coin is worth ruining his entire coins reputation over? I feel sorry for anyone invested in eclipse.

Eclipse should be crushed now after this. I would not be investing with a coin that has a dev like that.

Steem needs to be cloned and given a fair launch. I'm sure that will happen soon.

That's the issue with open source. You create something and if you don't launch it fairly your project is just branded a scam. Then others can clone it and keep it scam free.

Xcoin got away with it a bit up until now since they kept it closed source long enough to build a good head start. These steeming unfair devs will not have that luxury I hope.

[smooth]

I can't decide if this is a scam or not. I'm not kidding it is an honestly unfair coin apparently hehe

I agree. "Honestly unfair" LOL.

It is one of he most interesting not-quite-sure-if-this-is-a-scam coins ever.

Is it a scam if they basically tell you up front they are scamming you?

Tricky and interesting.

unfair is not much better than scam....the difference with a scam is you usually only discover it is unfair after the fact. In this case you are told it is unfair from the start although just how unfair was not discovered until eclipse crypto dev pointed it out.. Although why they have put no premine and no instamine ....nobody reasonably examining it would agree with that. Especially as eclipse dev proved they had 100 miners on it mining to different addresses to cover the fact they were instamining as hard as they could with as little competition as they could.

Saying they were trying to "cover the fact" that they were mining a lot seems wrong since they said they were doing it (see below), and although they had lots of different miner names, the names were mostly of the form steamit99. It wasn't hidden at all.

Post #3 on the thread:

Accounts:
root, admin, administrator, steem, any, moderator, and unknown plus anything starting with steemit are our own mining efforts.

Those were all highly visible, as the code displayed the name of every miner when they solved a block (this has apparently since been turned off). It was easy to see they were mining most of the blocks.

You have to take Eclipse Dev's comments in the right context. I think he was both FUDding to discourage participation and just plain trolling.

Second, there's only 3 more weeks left of true mining before delegated mining kicks in. Delegated mining is when the devs pick 19 "witnesses" to mine. Maybe they might pick one or two legit miners, but the most likely scenario, given the scam they have perpetrated so far, is that they will pick at least 17 instances of themselves to mine.

There are indeed 19 elected witnesses. Fair enough to assume those are all rigged. However, in addition there is one witness slot that will continue to use pure PoW mining and one that will be round-robin chosen from all configured witnesses (that don't get elected)

So there will continue to be a small slice of coins distributed to outsiders. Is that enough to matter? Maybe, maybe not. You decide.

[jwinterm]

My post that got deleted from relaunch thread:

[/quote]

[generalizethis]

Isn't honestly-unfair just another terminology for BS? Here, we created a lottery that only lottery employees can win, do you want to buy a ticket?

I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would fall for this, but my guess is some people just skim over most of the media and arrive at their own conclusions--maybe they should have a disclaimer: all misreadings are the sole responsibility of the reader as we've stated that we are going to mine the shit out of it and not let you have any meaningful portion of control--suck it, idiot! Which the naïve or greedy miner reads as Don't misread, our sole responsibility is to the miner, whom we plan on giving a shit-ton to and letting have total control--scam coins suck and are run by idiots!.

[smooth]

Isn't honestly-unfair just another terminology for BS? Here, we created a lottery that only lottery employees can win, do you want to buy a ticket?

It kind of reminds me of the sign on the top of some slot machines that says 97% payback. I.e. we are taking 3% of your money everytime you play if you sit here. It's a scam, but it's an 'honest scam', and people sit there anyway. Humans...

[cryptohunter]

for me it is a scam.

1. if they just said at the start we are going to mine a ton of it and keep and vest it for ourselves and if you want to be a mug and mine some you can. then it would just be very unfair.

Rather they put no instamine no premine - suggesting fairness but then shafting everyone.

2. why try to hide they were mining on 100 different wallets? another sign of dishonesty.

3. they then come out with some excuse that they are made to do it like this because it is more legal to perform a captive instamine than a premine.


I voted scam after thinking it over for a while.

Hopefully  a dev will be coming forward to clone it with a fair start for everyone very soon.

Has much work gone into this? I can not tell?

Has someone just mated hodl with bitshares?

To clone this how much work for a developer at this time?

[smooth]

1. if they just said at the start we are going to mine a ton of it and keep and vest it for ourselves and if you want to be a mug and mine some you can. then it would just be very unfair.

That is what they said.

Rather they put no instamine no premine - suggesting fairness but then shafting everyone.

That's a bit absurd and sleazy I agree.

2. why try to hide they were mining on 100 different wallets? another sign of dishonesty.

I don't see how they hid that. They said they were doing it and literally anyone who ran a node saw constant messages every few seconds saying "steemit42" or "steemit17" or whatever mined a block. How was this hidden?

3. they then change come out with some excuse that they are made to do it like this because it is more legal to perform a captive instamine than a premine.

Change? They never claimed anything else.

[generalizethis]

for me it is a scam.

1. if they just said at the start we are going to mine a ton of it and keep and vest it for ourselves and if you want to be a mug and mine some you can. then it would just be very unfair.

Rather they put no instamine no premine - suggesting fairness but then shafting everyone.

2. why try to hide they were mining on 100 different wallets? another sign of dishonesty.

3. they then come out with some excuse that they are made to do it like this because it is more legal to perform a captive instamine than a premine.


I voted scam after thinking it over for a while.

Hopefully  a dev will be coming forward to clone it with a fair start for everyone very soon.

Has much work gone into this? I can not tell?

Has someone just mated hodl with bitshares?

To clone this how much work for a developer at this time?

I think the simpler question is: Does it do anything worth cloning?

Also, can one of the options be scammish? As it really depends on you not understanding what they are saying, though "no premine" is the type of truth in advertising I expect from some of the other BS artists in the alt section--so probably scam, though one of the most honest scams out there.

[smooth]

scammish

That's my vote

I don't like the "NO PREMINE" etc. crap. That is trying to sell itself as "fair", which is dishonest in spirit even if not literally. They should have just owned it: "NO FAIRNESS"

[smooth]

Has much work gone into this? I can not tell?

There's a lot of work in it, and it isn't just hodlshares. The white paper is 42 pages of meaningful content (though not mathematically dense or anything). It's only available on their slack I think, but their slack is public.