LEGAL COURSE of ACTION Discussion --- bASIC / BitcoinASIC

[||bit]

With 17k it makes sense to visit Tom and convince him to pay back your bitcoins. I think chances are much better with a personal approach than using the legal system. It's much harder to deny refund to an angry person in front of you than to somebody that is far away. Maybe a bounty on Tom's head is the right way to go?!

Not sure what legal recourse will yield, but we should check it out... I have access to free consultation (limited) via work program, I'll report back regarding suggestions make...

I really like the idea of taking to Tom in person, just blows my mind that he's said nothing (again, waiting for this to go away) regarding the outstanding refunds.

Thanks. Where are you located if you don't mind answering? or Are you located in New York or near there?

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[1715361903]

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[singular]

Im interested in this and I also live in EU.
He owes me $1099+$60 for dhl upgrade (i paid him ~95, i expect BTC at the btcusd rate of the day i requested refound and so i want 81.9 BTC back minimum).

[||bit]

Hopefully something gets done, though I'm not sure how much there is to recover. I'm only out about $100 on currency conversion fees for my CC order, but as someone who was pretty active around BTCFPGA I feel bad for everyone that lost their BTC in this sinkhole.

This could actually be a pretty important legal precedent for BTC if someone does sue Tom, as it's a relatively straightforward case. Tom agreed to sell a physical product denominated in USD, and accepted BTC as a payment method. He never delivered, and hasn't refunded the money or responded to request to. Everyone would have to accept that any judgement would probably be in USD, but given the low burden of proof in small claims court I'd be surprised if a judge didn't give a judgement against Tom.

If it comes down to it, his bitcoin wallet will serve as evidence of if/when he traded bitcoins sent to him. I'd bet that a lawyer will push to argue that Tom pays any gains to victims if he is still holding them in any other wallets.

Maybe BFL will subsidize a lawyer. Since many of those funds recovered may turn around to purchasing BFL products.  

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[iambaboon]

1) Very interested, I have about $3300 invested. I'm from EU as well.

Would be interested in a percentage deal as well (debt collectors with commission only in case of success).

2) I think it's enough if we just add the poll numbers/claims in posts as a first step.

3) Evidence will consist mainly of emails, I have the site pages saved, but they were probably modified in the meantime.


I believe you should update your first post as we go on, or maybe we could use a wiki or so to centralize all answers/actions.

I also believe there should  a section:

5) Are there any other (better or not) ways of settling this in a different way ? What I'm thinking of:
- simply someone to talk to Tom on behalf of the group and see what's really happening
- an agency for consumer protection or something like this (small claims court ? )
- debt collection company
- private investigator/debt collector

[||bit]

Anyone from BFL:
Consider contributing to any legal cost's. Likely many of those that would recover funds will purchase your products.
So far, the poll indicates more than $300,000 in losses. Not a trivial amount.

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[||bit]

1) Very interested, I have about $3300 invested. I'm from EU as well.

Would be interested in a percentage deal as well (debt collectors with commission only in case of success).

2) I think it's enough if we just add the poll numbers/claims in posts as a first step.

3) Evidence will consist mainly of emails, I have the site pages saved, but they were probably modified in the meantime.


I believe you should update your first post as we go on, or maybe we could use a wiki or so to centralize all answers/actions.

I also believe there should  a section:

5) Are there any other (better or not) ways of settling this in a different way ? What I'm thinking of:
- simply someone to talk to Tom on behalf of the group and see what's really happening
- an agency for consumer protection or something like this (small claims court ? )
- debt collection company
- private investigator/debt collector

I'll update the post, but no guarantee's on an continual accurate update.

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[MonsterZero]

Have no idea what would come of this but...
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

Edit: I think people who have lost wire transfer should 100% pursue this course of action.

[wtfvanity]

Anyone from BFL:
Consider contributing to any legal cost's. Likely many of those that would recover funds will purchase your products.
So far, the poll indicates more than $300,000 in losses. Not a trivial amount.

||bit

8 people also chose $22,000 when that was the largest option. 

[nbtcminer]

Here are some possible legal actions:


1.) Contact a lawyer and get him to file against Tom Van Riper a.k.a Cablepair
2.) Gather the funds to have him served with papers
3.) Begin the legal process to shut him down.
3a.) As a part of this process have your lawyers contact his known sources of potential forms of income (i.e Bitcoin, BTCGuild ((other mining pools)) MtGox) to freeze his accounts until the legal matter is resolved as it may involve them if he continues to operate using their services.
3b.) Have your lawyers freeze any of his assets and if appropriate have him deemed a flight risk based on his actions thus far.

[||bit]

8 people also chose $22,000 when that was the largest option. 

Right. That is why I added the greater than option. I was surprised there were that many at $22k. It's possible one or more could be a kind of  wiseguy just picking the highest number, but I left it open. At least we can get an idea on the magnitude. Even without those high numbers the losses among the less questionable are about $150k. And this is possibly the tip of an iceberg. Afterall, to the best of my recollection, Tom said he had something like a thousand or more refunds to process.

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[kwoody]

Tom owes me $2,759.97. (2 full bASICs and 1 half bASIC)

I do have screenshots of the Bitpay payments made to BTCFPGA.

I have my pitchfork and torch ready to go.

[Nemesis]

Remember $300k seems small.... when price of BTC was 7-10

If the full amount was paid in BTC, hes pocketing $600-700k from this.

[pyromaniac]

$1100, but bitcoin price at that moment was around $11, so much more.

[||bit]

Anyone with some sense of what is needed from a lawyer, feel free to search for possible lawyers (online) in any nearby cities. A couple persons in the thread are already looking. But more eyes searching for possibilities won't hurt. For example: Starting looking in Fulton. Then some relatively near cities like Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Albany, and New York City.

Or other nearby locations:
http://goo.gl/maps/yQiiG

Seems to me there has to be a lawyer somewhere in New York.  

Outside New York seems possible, since property was traded across state and international borders. So, it seems it could be a federal case, if any.

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[greeners]

I am in Canada.

I ordered 1 x $1099 unit for 103.8785 btc (ouch).

I have a screenshot of my invoice with payment address.

[agath]

Tom owes me more than $100K. I have a signed contract (which has not been respected) and I paid through a wire transfer. I live in EU.

[100%digital]

what would /bitcointalk like me to ask my attorney? please be SPECIFIC! rep said, i'll be receiving a call within 24hrs (...as of 4PM MST)

naturally i have my own questions which will aid in our cause, but help me, help you (guys)


what other q's might he ask that i should know answer to? business name, LLC, city Tom/business resides in, associates, etc???

[puck2]

what would /bitcointalk like me to ask my attorney? please be SPECIFIC! rep said, i'll be receiving a call within 24hrs (...as of 4PM MST)

naturally i have my own questions which will aid in our cause, but help me, help you (guys)

• What are the possibilities of class action?
• Can we be refunded USD via check in lieu of BTC refund?
• What is the legal entity that owes us money if BTCFPGA, LLC does not exist?
• Do "investors" in bitcoinASIC have obligation to repay customers if no LLC existed?
• What is the legal implication of Tom's various "GAURANTEES"?

[hardcore-fs]

Simple......
Even for people in Europe... report it as a case of "money laundering", seems these are the words that wake banks/police Authorities up.
Please stop using the words "scammer" and start using the words  "money laundering", Google will soon pick it up.

[Nemesis]

Simple......
Even for people in Europe... report it as a case of "money laundering", seems these are the words that wake banks/police Authorities up.
Please stop using the words "scammer" and start using the words  "money laundering", Google will soon pick it up.

Bokai