ASICMINER AUCTION 2000 sahres.

[El Cabron]

And where are my bids:
250 @ 0.38 # 14
150 @ 0.38 # 28
200 @ 0.39 # 52
225 @ 0.41 # 53
175 @ 0.41 # 67
25  @ 0.42 # 100
300 @ 0.42 # 105



Wnners bids

Hmm, I think you are right. You should have 150 shares at .42  that is my mistake. HorseRider should not.

My mistake.



Please double check this!!

150   @   0,42   #   103   ;;   Vezunchik
50   @   0,42   #   98   ;;   ThickAsThieves
25   @   0,42   #   95   ;;   wachtwoord
125   @   0,42   #   87   ;;   Aajo
75   @   0,42   #   86   ;;   gyverlb
150   @   0,42   #   83   ;;   BlackLilac
100   @   0,43   #   111      wisard
25   @   0,43   #   109   ;;   PM#4
50   @   0,43   #   107   ;;   ThickAsThieves
100   @   0,43   #   106   ;;   HorseRider
100   @   0,43   #   102   ;;   PM#5
50   @   0,43   #   93   ;;   ghostshirt
100   @   0,43   #   89   ;;   wisard
750   @   0,45   #   53      IRC #1
50   @   0,45   #   50   ;;   PM 3
25   @   0,45   #   13   ;;   PM #1
25   @   0,5   #   91   ;;   xiangfu
25   @   0,5   #   70   ;;   server
25   @   0,5   #   32   ;;   xiangfu

I was right the first time

150   @   0,42   #   103   ;;   HorseRider
50   @   0,42   #   98   ;;   ThickAsThieves
25   @   0,42   #   95   ;;   wachtwoord
125   @   0,42   #   87   ;;   Aajo
75   @   0,42   #   86   ;;   gyverlb
150   @   0,42   #   83   ;;   BlackLilac
100   @   0,43   #   111      wisard
25   @   0,43   #   109   ;;   PM#4
50   @   0,43   #   107   ;;   ThickAsThieves
100   @   0,43   #   106   ;;   HorseRider
100   @   0,43   #   102   ;;   PM#5
50   @   0,43   #   93   ;;   ghostshirt
100   @   0,43   #   89   ;;   wisard
750   @   0,45   #   81   ;;   IRC #1
50   @   0,45   #   50   ;;   PM 3
25   @   0,45   #   13   ;;   PM #1
25   @   0,5   #   91   ;;   xiangfu
25   @   0,5   #   70   ;;   server
25   @   0,5   #   32   ;;   xiangfu

His bid was two posts before yours.

[1714149097]

1714149097

[1714149097]

1714149097

[El Cabron]

In order to not mess this up more than it is I will sell to both Vezunchik and HorseRider.   I can part with an extra 150 shares.

Thank you.

Vezunchik   63
ThickAsThieves   42.5
wachtwoord   10.5
Aajo   52.5
gyverlb   31.5
BlackLilac   63
wisard   86
PM#4   10.75
ThickAsThieves   21.5
HorseRider   106
PM#5   43
ghostshirt   21.5
IRC #1   337.5
PM # 3   22.5
xiangfu   25
server   25
xiangfu   25

[El Cabron]

Everyone should have their PM with their address. I remind you that you must pay with in 24 hours.

Thank you.

[gyverlb]

There's a part I'm not sure I understand:

Because you are buying the claimed shares, if something unfortunate should happen and the shares are never sent to me BTC can not be refunded. You can not get a refund for acts of God or something outside of my control. If friedcat was hit by a bus, or if the Internet in China goes off line forever this is not in my control. If friedcat sends out the shares later than 19th April for any reason, I reserve the right to request and obtain the escrowed Bitcoins from John. I will still be obligated to send to john if I ever receive them in the future.  

I'm OK with my BTC being yours if something happens to your shares. But I'd like to be sure that johnthedong won't release my BTC after 19th April unless you provide proof that you own the shares. I don't see how this can happen if friedcat is hit by a bus.

To make it clear: until friedcat has properly verified the transfer of the shares that should become mine either to me or to the escrow, you should be the one assuming the risks of them disappearing, not me (I don't have any proof that you are indeed in a position to sell me the amount of shares promised).

To avoid coins being locked in escrow forever at anytime and for any reason a buyer or myself can give permission to release the funds to the other party. John will have to make sure you are the true owner so please only send funds from an address you hold. Do not send funds from a Mt. Gox address for example.

With these conditions it seems to me that the buyers assume all the risks of friedcat disappearing before the transfer can be validated even if they use escrow (the buyer can't claim the BTC back him/herself if the deal can not go on).

Is there something I didn't understand?

[El Cabron]

There's a part I'm not sure I understand:

Because you are buying the claimed shares, if something unfortunate should happen and the shares are never sent to me BTC can not be refunded. You can not get a refund for acts of God or something outside of my control. If friedcat was hit by a bus, or if the Internet in China goes off line forever this is not in my control. If friedcat sends out the shares later than 19th April for any reason, I reserve the right to request and obtain the escrowed Bitcoins from John. I will still be obligated to send to john if I ever receive them in the future.  

I'm OK with my BTC being yours if something happens to your shares. But I'd like to be sure that johnthedong won't release my BTC after 19th April unless you provide proof that you own the shares. I don't see how this can happen if friedcat is hit by a bus.

To make it clear: until friedcat has properly verified the transfer of the shares that should become mine either to me or to the escrow, you should be the one assuming the risks of them disappearing, not me (I don't have any proof that you are indeed in a position to sell me the amount of shares promised).

To avoid coins being locked in escrow forever at anytime and for any reason a buyer or myself can give permission to release the funds to the other party. John will have to make sure you are the true owner so please only send funds from an address you hold. Do not send funds from a Mt. Gox address for example.

With these conditions it seems to me that the buyers assume all the risks of friedcat disappearing before the transfer can be validated even if they use escrow (the buyer can't claim the BTC back him/herself if the deal can not go on).

Is there something I didn't understand?

You are assuming that risk. This is a sale now!   Let us say that in a month it is clear that BFL and Avalon fail and ASICMiner is the only ASIC comapny for the next year. The stock will go up to 4 BTC maybe more. I am taking this risk of that not happening by selling it to you now at .04X. You are taking the risk something does not happen like a bus accident.   I will not let the coins just sit in escrow forever or I lose out becasue of an act of God. This is a sale now, not an option to buy later if everything works out for you.

If you do not really want to buy them that is fine. There is no way to I can guarantee to give you something I do not have. I am acting in good faith here, you must as well. You are buying my verified claim.

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks

[John (John K.)]

There's a part I'm not sure I understand:

Because you are buying the claimed shares, if something unfortunate should happen and the shares are never sent to me BTC can not be refunded. You can not get a refund for acts of God or something outside of my control. If friedcat was hit by a bus, or if the Internet in China goes off line forever this is not in my control. If friedcat sends out the shares later than 19th April for any reason, I reserve the right to request and obtain the escrowed Bitcoins from John. I will still be obligated to send to john if I ever receive them in the future.  

I'm OK with my BTC being yours if something happens to your shares. But I'd like to be sure that johnthedong won't release my BTC after 19th April unless you provide proof that you own the shares. I don't see how this can happen if friedcat is hit by a bus.

To make it clear: until friedcat has properly verified the transfer of the shares that should become mine either to me or to the escrow, you should be the one assuming the risks of them disappearing, not me (I don't have any proof that you are indeed in a position to sell me the amount of shares promised).

To avoid coins being locked in escrow forever at anytime and for any reason a buyer or myself can give permission to release the funds to the other party. John will have to make sure you are the true owner so please only send funds from an address you hold. Do not send funds from a Mt. Gox address for example.

With these conditions it seems to me that the buyers assume all the risks of friedcat disappearing before the transfer can be validated even if they use escrow (the buyer can't claim the BTC back him/herself if the deal can not go on).

Is there something I didn't understand?

The BTC is not released before the shares get sent to me (and sent to the buyers), unless friedcat goes MIA, or Goat does not receive the shares for some reason.( and is able to prove that conclusively) Friedcat's default is a risk to the buyers, much like the risk incurred when one buy BFL or another ASIC's preorder spot.

It's 12AM here, so there might be some flaws in my reasoning though.

[El Cabron]

There's a part I'm not sure I understand:

Because you are buying the claimed shares, if something unfortunate should happen and the shares are never sent to me BTC can not be refunded. You can not get a refund for acts of God or something outside of my control. If friedcat was hit by a bus, or if the Internet in China goes off line forever this is not in my control. If friedcat sends out the shares later than 19th April for any reason, I reserve the right to request and obtain the escrowed Bitcoins from John. I will still be obligated to send to john if I ever receive them in the future.  

I'm OK with my BTC being yours if something happens to your shares. But I'd like to be sure that johnthedong won't release my BTC after 19th April unless you provide proof that you own the shares. I don't see how this can happen if friedcat is hit by a bus.

To make it clear: until friedcat has properly verified the transfer of the shares that should become mine either to me or to the escrow, you should be the one assuming the risks of them disappearing, not me (I don't have any proof that you are indeed in a position to sell me the amount of shares promised).

To avoid coins being locked in escrow forever at anytime and for any reason a buyer or myself can give permission to release the funds to the other party. John will have to make sure you are the true owner so please only send funds from an address you hold. Do not send funds from a Mt. Gox address for example.

With these conditions it seems to me that the buyers assume all the risks of friedcat disappearing before the transfer can be validated even if they use escrow (the buyer can't claim the BTC back him/herself if the deal can not go on).

Is there something I didn't understand?

The BTC is not released before the shares get sent to me (and sent to the buyers), unless friedcat goes MIA, or Goat does not receive the shares for some reason.( and is able to prove that conclusively) Friedcat's default is a risk to the buyers, much like the risk incurred when one buy BFL or another ASIC's preorder spot.

It's 12AM here, so there might be some flaws in my reasoning though.

That is pretty much my thinking. Thanks

[gyverlb]

The BTC is not released before the shares get sent to me (and sent to the buyers), unless friedcat goes MIA, or Goat does not receive the shares for some reason.( and is able to prove that conclusively) Friedcat's default is a risk to the buyers, much like the risk incurred when one buy BFL or another ASIC's preorder spot.

It's 12AM here, so there might be some flaws in my reasoning though.

I'm OK with a default from Friedcat. What I'm worried about is that friedcat seems quite busy these days and I don't know him well enough to know if he will be around to confirm that Goat really has 2000+ shares before April the 19th. Currently I only have Goat's word that he owns the shares. You use escrow when you think you can't afford to trust the other party. Escrow isn't any good for me if there's a situation (friedcat not answering until April the 19th) where Goat can sell me shares he never owned.

But you said :

or Goat does not receive the shares for some reason.( and is able to prove that conclusively)

This imply that if friedcat disappears before having acknowledged publicly that Goat's share are real, Goat won't be able to prove anything about his shares and I'll get my BTC back. If we agree on that then there's no problem.

In fact when biding I thought there was an existing confirmation from friedcat somewhere:

Friedcat knows about this auction and my shares have been confirmed.

If there really is one confirmation somewhere I can read then there is no problem.

[DutchBrat]

In order to not mess this up more than it is I will sell to both Vezunchik and HorseRider.   I can part with an extra 150 shares.

Thank you.

Vezunchik   63
ThickAsThieves   42.5
wachtwoord   10.5
Aajo   52.5
gyverlb   31.5
BlackLilac   63
wisard   86
PM#4   10.75
ThickAsThieves   21.5
HorseRider   106
PM#5   43
ghostshirt   21.5
IRC #1   337.5
PM # 3   22.5
xiangfu   25
server   25
xiangfu   25

Witnessed

[John (John K.)]

The BTC is not released before the shares get sent to me (and sent to the buyers), unless friedcat goes MIA, or Goat does not receive the shares for some reason.( and is able to prove that conclusively) Friedcat's default is a risk to the buyers, much like the risk incurred when one buy BFL or another ASIC's preorder spot.

It's 12AM here, so there might be some flaws in my reasoning though.

I'm OK with a default from Friedcat. What I'm worried about is that friedcat seems quite busy these days and I don't know him well enough to know if he will be around to confirm that Goat really has 2000+ shares before April the 19th. Currently I only have Goat's word that he owns the shares. You use escrow when you think you can't afford to trust the other party. Escrow isn't any good for me if there's a situation (friedcat not answering until April the 19th) where Goat can sell me shares he never owned.

But you said :

or Goat does not receive the shares for some reason.( and is able to prove that conclusively)

This imply that if friedcat disappears before having acknowledged publicly that Goat's share are real, Goat won't be able to prove anything about his shares and I'll get my BTC back. If we agree on that then there's no problem.

In fact when biding I thought there was an existing confirmation from friedcat somewhere:

Friedcat knows about this auction and my shares have been confirmed.

If there really is one confirmation somewhere I can read then there is no problem.

Hmm.. that's a good point. Yes, Goat will need to prove his stake of the shares involved either via friedcat's statement or otherwise to have this risk transferred to the buyer.

[El Cabron]

The BTC is not released before the shares get sent to me (and sent to the buyers), unless friedcat goes MIA, or Goat does not receive the shares for some reason.( and is able to prove that conclusively) Friedcat's default is a risk to the buyers, much like the risk incurred when one buy BFL or another ASIC's preorder spot.

It's 12AM here, so there might be some flaws in my reasoning though.

I'm OK with a default from Friedcat. What I'm worried about is that friedcat seems quite busy these days and I don't know him well enough to know if he will be around to confirm that Goat really has 2000+ shares before April the 19th. Currently I only have Goat's word that he owns the shares. You use escrow when you think you can't afford to trust the other party. Escrow isn't any good for me if there's a situation (friedcat not answering until April the 19th) where Goat can sell me shares he never owned.

But you said :

or Goat does not receive the shares for some reason.( and is able to prove that conclusively)

This imply that if friedcat disappears before having acknowledged publicly that Goat's share are real, Goat won't be able to prove anything about his shares and I'll get my BTC back. If we agree on that then there's no problem.

In fact when biding I thought there was an existing confirmation from friedcat somewhere:

Friedcat knows about this auction and my shares have been confirmed.

If there really is one confirmation somewhere I can read then there is no problem.

I have the confirmation in e-mail. I guess the question is do you trust me enough and how long do you think it will take Friedcat.   Honestly I would rather not sell the shares than to risk it sitting in escrow forever. You do not have to buy. You can walk away and no one will judge you.

Honestly I do not mind keeping the shares and if I wanted to sell them to someone else I'm sure I can find a buyer.

However I will publish my e-mails if Friedcat is hit by a bus and I will give access to John to my g-mail account so he can see them first hand. This should be pretty solid I would think.

Thanks.

[wisard]

In order to not mess this up more than it is I will sell to both Vezunchik and HorseRider.   I can part with an extra 150 shares.

Thank you for running this auction.

I don't want to seem to be nitpicky. But here is the issue:

HorseRider's bid number was #103. 300 shares at 0.42.
Mine was #104. 100 shares at 0.42.
Vezunchik's was #105. 300 shares at 0.42.

In post number #110, I read that other bids have pushed my bid number #104 off the list.
And so I make a new bid, bid number #111. 100 shares at 0.43.

And then I find that because of issues with communication, someone who was behind me on the list is getting shares at a cost less than me anyways.

Please consider my bid #104 instead of #111. The issue is only 1 bitcoin. But things as they stand now don't seem right to me.

[John (John K.)]

The BTC is not released before the shares get sent to me (and sent to the buyers), unless friedcat goes MIA, or Goat does not receive the shares for some reason.( and is able to prove that conclusively) Friedcat's default is a risk to the buyers, much like the risk incurred when one buy BFL or another ASIC's preorder spot.

It's 12AM here, so there might be some flaws in my reasoning though.

I'm OK with a default from Friedcat. What I'm worried about is that friedcat seems quite busy these days and I don't know him well enough to know if he will be around to confirm that Goat really has 2000+ shares before April the 19th. Currently I only have Goat's word that he owns the shares. You use escrow when you think you can't afford to trust the other party. Escrow isn't any good for me if there's a situation (friedcat not answering until April the 19th) where Goat can sell me shares he never owned.

But you said :

or Goat does not receive the shares for some reason.( and is able to prove that conclusively)

This imply that if friedcat disappears before having acknowledged publicly that Goat's share are real, Goat won't be able to prove anything about his shares and I'll get my BTC back. If we agree on that then there's no problem.

In fact when biding I thought there was an existing confirmation from friedcat somewhere:

Friedcat knows about this auction and my shares have been confirmed.

If there really is one confirmation somewhere I can read then there is no problem.

I have the confirmation in e-mail. I guess the question is do you trust me enough and how long do you think it will take Friedcat.   Honestly I would rather not sell the shares than to risk it sitting in escrow forever. You do not have to buy. You can walk away and no one will judge you.

Honestly I do not mind keeping the shares and if I wanted to sell them to someone else I'm sure I can find a buyer.

However I will publish my e-mails if Friedcat is hit by a bus and I will give access to John to my g-mail account so he can see them first hand. This should be pretty solid I would think.

Thanks.

That should be pretty conclusive as the email headers and the content would be a quite good proof.

[gyverlb]

However I will publish my e-mails if Friedcat is hit by a bus and I will give access to John to my g-mail account so he can see them first hand. This should be pretty solid I would think.

I trust John: if you convince him that's enough for me.

[El Cabron]

In order to not mess this up more than it is I will sell to both Vezunchik and HorseRider.   I can part with an extra 150 shares.

Thank you for running this auction.

I don't want to seem to be nitpicky. But here is the issue:

HorseRider's bid number was #103. 300 shares at 0.42.
Mine was #104. 100 shares at 0.42.
Vezunchik's was #105. 300 shares at 0.42.

In post number #110, I read that other bids have pushed my bid number #104 off the list.
And so I make a new bid, bid number #111. 100 shares at 0.43.

And then I find that because of issues with communication, someone who was behind me on the list is getting shares at a cost less than me anyways.

Please consider my bid #104 instead of #111. The issue is only 1 bitcoin. But things as they stand now don't seem right to me.

Yes, please send 1 BTC less.

[El Cabron]

However I will publish my e-mails if Friedcat is hit by a bus and I will give access to John to my g-mail account so he can see them first hand. This should be pretty solid I would think.

I trust John: if you convince him that's enough for me.

Sadly that is not the way the contract is stated. I will just do it to keep my reputation. I have worked hard to be so trusted.  You need to decide before you send the coins if you trust me or not.

The contract does not say I need to prove that I have a claim, but I will do it never the less.

Thank you.

[El Cabron]

I need to go to bed so please ask me questions before sending coin if you have them. Be back in 9 hours or so.

Peace

[gyverlb]

Yes, Goat will need to prove his stake of the shares involved either via friedcat's statement or otherwise to have this risk transferred to the buyer.

Fantastic, 31.5 BTC sent for 75 shares at 0.42 BTC. Tip sent your way too.

[El Cabron]

Yes, Goat will need to prove his stake of the shares involved either via friedcat's statement or otherwise to have this risk transferred to the buyer.

Fantastic, 31.5 BTC sent for 75 shares at 0.42 BTC. Tip sent your way too.

[gyverlb]

Yes, Goat will need to prove his stake of the shares involved either via friedcat's statement or otherwise to have this risk transferred to the buyer.

Fantastic, 31.5 BTC sent for 75 shares at 0.42 BTC. Tip sent your way too.

I prepared this reply when I paid, long before the stream of following replies and had to try twice again to make it go through.

John has the coins because I trust him. I'm willing to trust Goat given he has publicly stated that he will provide proof to John if needed. Goat: I understand rewording a contract is not trivial, but given that I pointed out a loophole and that you value your reputation I think this would be in your best interest to close the loophole by explicitly accepting Johnthedong arbitration on this (this is why we use escrow services after all).