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Author Topic: ripple: let's test it!  (Read 43518 times)
Peter Lambert
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March 14, 2013, 01:27:20 AM
 #381

Why doesen't ripple contain contracts on interest rates etc. So I trust XXX for 1 BTC at 5% interest.

You could set it up externally. You agree with whoever when you are setting up your trust that on a given day every month whoever owes money sends an extra 5% interest (or whatever conditions you want).

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JoelKatz
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March 14, 2013, 05:15:26 AM
Last edit: March 14, 2013, 06:44:00 AM by JoelKatz
 #382

Why doesen't ripple contain contracts on interest rates etc. So I trust XXX for 1 BTC at 5% interest.
We plan to support it through contracts, but our preferred lending model uses an issue discount instead of interest. For a variety of reasons, that model works better (because of the nature of Ripple, not necessarily in general). This is discussed in more detail here: https://ripple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1224

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March 14, 2013, 06:39:59 AM
 #383

Great, I trust mogly for 10€. If somebody trusts me, we´ll make it grow!

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March 14, 2013, 01:58:12 PM
 #384

Why doesen't ripple contain contracts on interest rates etc. So I trust XXX for 1 BTC at 5% interest.

Yes, I agree on that.
Being able to set interest rates is necessary, in my opinion.
At the moment, with "input = output", I prefer to have a high line of credit, but try to trust others as little as possible.
Why? Having credit is like "free money", but having IOUs from others is a hassle. It reduces my liquidity or even forces me to leave the couch to get some physical cash back.
It's even more visible once there is a lot of "traffic" in ripple with many, long chains of trust. Then I transfer IOUs and money all the time, without being directly involved, like being a clearing point for my other contacts. Then it will really start to be a hassle, with no direct benefit for me.

If I can set, for example, a 0.1% fee for clearing my contact's transactions, and set x% per y days for lending, aka buying IOUs, I have an incentive for both clearing and buying IOUs.
This will get a lot of people on Ripple, this will get a lot of liquidity, short and reliable chains, this will bring publicity.

Of course I am totally ignoring the whole XRP discussion here.

Ente
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March 14, 2013, 02:44:37 PM
 #385

Why doesen't ripple contain contracts on interest rates etc. So I trust XXX for 1 BTC at 5% interest.

Yes, I agree on that.
Being able to set interest rates is necessary, in my opinion.
At the moment, with "input = output", I prefer to have a high line of credit, but try to trust others as little as possible.
Why? Having credit is like "free money", but having IOUs from others is a hassle. It reduces my liquidity or even forces me to leave the couch to get some physical cash back.
It's even more visible once there is a lot of "traffic" in ripple with many, long chains of trust. Then I transfer IOUs and money all the time, without being directly involved, like being a clearing point for my other contacts. Then it will really start to be a hassle, with no direct benefit for me.

If I can set, for example, a 0.1% fee for clearing my contact's transactions, and set x% per y days for lending, aka buying IOUs, I have an incentive for both clearing and buying IOUs.
This will get a lot of people on Ripple, this will get a lot of liquidity, short and reliable chains, this will bring publicity.

Of course I am totally ignoring the whole XRP discussion here.

Ente

The current client doesn't have an interface for it, but the system allows you to set transit fees and to accept IOU's at less than face value. You can have a spread between how much you value incoming and outgoing IOU's, so you make a small profit for handling them.

Edit: See here: https://ripple.com/wiki/Transit_Fees
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March 14, 2013, 05:28:59 PM
Last edit: March 14, 2013, 07:06:52 PM by JoelKatz
 #386

If I can set, for example, a 0.1% fee for clearing my contact's transactions, and set x% per y days for lending, aka buying IOUs, I have an incentive for both clearing and buying IOUs.
You can set a fee for the transfer of your IOUs from one person to another. You can set a premium when you take someone else's IOUs. Charging interest breaks this model though, so we can't support it inside the normal flow of payments. You can, however, achieve the same thing with an issue premium (or a "quality in" in Ripple terms).

See this thread for details on why interest doesn't work:
https://ripple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1224

The simple reason interest breaks this model: It makes it impossible to compare the value of payment paths. For example, say you get $10 at a gateway but in exchange you lose a $9 debt at 12% interest. Is that a good deal? Well, you can't say unless you know how long that debt would have continued to pay interest.

If you do know how long the debt will pay interest, there's no need for interest at all if you can charge an issue premium. There's a one-to-one correspondence between "$X at Y% interest paid in Z months" and "$A paid in Z months at no interest".

Also, because IOUs are powerful in Ripple, it's not clear who should charge who interest. As an intermediary, you exchange one IOU for another. Presumably you consider these IOUs equal in value (or you are getting a more valuable IOU for a less valuable IOU) otherwise you wouldn't make the deal. So why should anyone pay you interest after an even exchange?

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March 14, 2013, 06:16:09 PM
 #387


So anyone want to post his contact info here so I can add some people to my contacts?

I'm rpH3zuMch2GrrYX724xGWwbMGwiQ5RbSAU

I'd like to try this thing, it really looks great. I trusted you for 0.2BTC

My addres is:
rEiNY9Rf25S79UZuEnskTVoV2NidFdCCFu

Thanks

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March 14, 2013, 07:58:43 PM
 #388

If I can set, for example, a 0.1% fee for clearing my contact's transactions, and set x% per y days for lending, aka buying IOUs, I have an incentive for both clearing and buying IOUs.
You can set a fee for the transfer of your IOUs from one person to another. You can set a premium when you take someone else's IOUs. Charging interest breaks this model though, so we can't support it inside the normal flow of payments. You can, however, achieve the same thing with an issue premium (or a "quality in" in Ripple terms).

See this thread for details on why interest doesn't work:
https://ripple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1224

The simple reason interest breaks this model: It makes it impossible to compare the value of payment paths. For example, say you get $10 at a gateway but in exchange you lose a $9 debt at 12% interest. Is that a good deal? Well, you can't say unless you know how long that debt would have continued to pay interest.

If you do know how long the debt will pay interest, there's no need for interest at all if you can charge an issue premium. There's a one-to-one correspondence between "$X at Y% interest paid in Z months" and "$A paid in Z months at no interest".

Also, because IOUs are powerful in Ripple, it's not clear who should charge who interest. As an intermediary, you exchange one IOU for another. Presumably you consider these IOUs equal in value (or you are getting a more valuable IOU for a less valuable IOU) otherwise you wouldn't make the deal. So why should anyone pay you interest after an even exchange?

Thank you for the input.
This whole beast sure is complicated, once you start diggin' and playin' :-)
Compared to that, Bitcoin is simple and straight-forward. Lets see who the first person is to explain ripple to their mom - I'll try once I understand it fully ;-)

Ente
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March 14, 2013, 09:18:19 PM
Last edit: March 14, 2013, 11:48:35 PM by w1R903
 #389

If I can set, for example, a 0.1% fee for clearing my contact's transactions, and set x% per y days for lending, aka buying IOUs, I have an incentive for both clearing and buying IOUs.
You can set a fee for the transfer of your IOUs from one person to another. You can set a premium when you take someone else's IOUs. Charging interest breaks this model though, so we can't support it inside the normal flow of payments. You can, however, achieve the same thing with an issue premium (or a "quality in" in Ripple terms).

See this thread for details on why interest doesn't work:
https://ripple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1224

The simple reason interest breaks this model: It makes it impossible to compare the value of payment paths. For example, say you get $10 at a gateway but in exchange you lose a $9 debt at 12% interest. Is that a good deal? Well, you can't say unless you know how long that debt would have continued to pay interest.

If you do know how long the debt will pay interest, there's no need for interest at all if you can charge an issue premium. There's a one-to-one correspondence between "$X at Y% interest paid in Z months" and "$A paid in Z months at no interest".

Also, because IOUs are powerful in Ripple, it's not clear who should charge who interest. As an intermediary, you exchange one IOU for another. Presumably you consider these IOUs equal in value (or you are getting a more valuable IOU for a less valuable IOU) otherwise you wouldn't make the deal. So why should anyone pay you interest after an even exchange?

Thank you for the input.
This whole beast sure is complicated, once you start diggin' and playin' :-)
Compared to that, Bitcoin is simple and straight-forward. Lets see who the first person is to explain ripple to their mom - I'll try once I understand it fully ;-)

Ente

It took me a few days of almost full-time thinking about Ripple to really understand the implications, and another few days to really appreciate OpenCoin's implementation.  They've pulled together all the best ideas in cryptocurrency (original ripple, opencoin, etc.) and synthesized them into the new Ripple.  The only way to fully appreciate the beauty of ripple.com is to open an account, clicking on the advanced tab, and also read TTBit's thread about his DYM currency in Ripple. I haven't been this excited about anything since I first learned about Bitcoin back in late 2010.  Except this time, I'm going to hang on to more than just a few coins.

The mistake a lot of people are making is assuming Ripple XRP is just another electronic currency like btc, when it's more like a credit to use their system combined with a stock (and notice how careful the principals are to avoid predicting any future performance).  Ripple is a vastly different project than some pre-mined block chain knockoff.  That's not to say that XRP won't gain massive value.  In fact, all the same forward-thinking people who racked up Bitcoins in the beginning are going to do the same with Ripple.

Aside from the brilliant ideas in Ripple, I think the team has the technical chops to pull this off.  The only two doubts I have now are:

1) Legal.  Since there is a for-profit company to target, who knows what kind of legal grief they'll run in to.
2) Customer service/public relations.  They seem a little weak here.  They need to hire a full-time developer relations person, and really stress public relations and customer service among all their staff.  David is going a great job of representing the company in public, but he seems to be the only one trying.  They may all just be too busy right now, but I hope they realize that customer service and public relations, particularly among devs and early adopters, will make or break this project.  We'll see.

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March 14, 2013, 09:50:40 PM
 #390

2) Customer service/public relations.  They seem a little weak here.  They need to hire a full-time developer relations person, and really stress public relations and customer service among all their staff.  David is going a great job of representing the company in public, but he seems to be the only one trying.  They may all just be too busy right now, but I hope they realize that customer service and public relations, particularly among devs and early adopters, will make or break this project.  We'll see.
Thanks. Expect to see much more from us in this area. We haven't specifically tried to approach anyone but the Bitcoin community yet but we will.

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March 15, 2013, 02:57:12 PM
 #391

2) Customer service/public relations.  They seem a little weak here.  They need to hire a full-time developer relations person, and really stress public relations and customer service among all their staff.  David is going a great job of representing the company in public, but he seems to be the only one trying.  They may all just be too busy right now, but I hope they realize that customer service and public relations, particularly among devs and early adopters, will make or break this project.  We'll see.
Thanks. Expect to see much more from us in this area. We haven't specifically tried to approach anyone but the Bitcoin community yet but we will.

Glad to hear it.  I'm pulling for you all -- if Ripple succeeds, it should make moving money from fiat into cryptocurrencies vastly more simple.  I'm looking forward to see how this develops.

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March 19, 2013, 05:04:04 PM
Last edit: March 19, 2013, 05:45:37 PM by Un zafado cualquiera
 #392

hi ripple testers:

I want to try this and i created a ripple account...

someone already made a circle to test if your own IOUs can pay for their value?


this is my address: r9JJ28tGZ9p83Ngqu4tWTCWYUSxU6FeRQC
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March 20, 2013, 08:20:18 AM
 #393

Hey guys,

I created a new Ripple account. My address is rzrQieowSLiDwjYDsXRKayPbb8uGzkV1D

Would be glad to test it out.
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March 20, 2013, 09:06:53 AM
Last edit: March 20, 2013, 09:32:39 AM by Tesion
 #394

rw75ru8M6oPCZrC7gDW8MuevqPrLxu8Xtn
I uh, have no idea. I created an account now what? I can enter other accounts as contacts? What happens if I add random people as contacts? oO

Edit: Uh ok, can´t add people need those rpx? How do i get them? Except trying this forum game thingy?
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March 20, 2013, 05:39:46 PM
Last edit: March 20, 2013, 05:56:07 PM by Peter Lambert
 #395

rw75ru8M6oPCZrC7gDW8MuevqPrLxu8Xtn
I uh, have no idea. I created an account now what? I can enter other accounts as contacts? What happens if I add random people as contacts? oO

Edit: Uh ok, can´t add people need those rpx? How do i get them? Except trying this forum game thingy?

It does seem strange you can't start using ripple for anything until you get some xrp, but you can't even buy the xrp until you have an active account. There was the free xrp giveaway thread for people with bicointalk accounts created before the giveaway started.

The other thing you could do is have somebody lend you some xrp as a started loan. I have done this for at least one person in the past: I send you 300 xrp (that is enough to get started), after which you can buy some xrp by depositing btc through one of the gateways and using the ripple exchange, then send me back the xrp I lent you (plus whatever amount of interest).

Or you could directly buy some xrp from somebody on the forum, you send them btc and they send xrp to your ripple account. So if you send me 5 mBTC, I will send you 500 XRP so you can start using your ripple account.

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March 20, 2013, 05:52:44 PM
 #396

So, the wiki says you can set fees but how do you do that?

Also, XRP isn't meant to be an investment.  There are limits in place to stop spammers.

The thing is they have a big reserve value of XRP.  It's like a pre mined coin.  And it doesn't necessarily need to have value.  You could trade stuff without XRP.  XRP is something to stop people from spamming and for tx fees.
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March 20, 2013, 07:21:34 PM
 #397

I would like to try this, but my account was a few days under the date needed to recieve free XRP to start you off. To late to the party, again  Sad
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March 20, 2013, 08:51:43 PM
 #398

I would like to try this, but my account was a few days under the date needed to recieve free XRP to start you off. To late to the party, again  Sad

As I pointed out a few posts up, you could get enough XRP to try it out for just a few mBTC. You only need a few hundred XRP to get started, and they are going for something on the order of 100 XRP per mBTC.

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March 21, 2013, 04:31:26 AM
 #399

 can someone explain briefly how to fund the client with Bitcoins?  Undecided
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March 21, 2013, 06:12:45 AM
 #400

Can someone explain how Ripple and the consensus approach would handle a fork (majority POW for bitcoin vs majority validators for ripple) like bitcoin experienced earlier this month?

One of the huge selling points of bitcoin is no double spends, once a transaction is confirmed there are no rollbacks.. quite clearly that was not the case earlier this month, could Ripple experience the same sort of problem?

I guess there is no way to avoid a splitting of versions of truth depending on what groups of users want.. thinking out loud, the trick is to be alerted to the fact that there is another fork out there and is it the one you want to be on..
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