IF the NSA wanted to take control over Bitcoin, how would they do it?

[becoin]

If the NSA was really hell-bent on taking over Bitcoin, they would have to basically get at the core of Bitcoin; the miners. If they can control them, either through technical or physical control, then they can decide how to move coins, restrict blocks, and other various things. They would have to strike at the heart in order to kill it, anything outside of that wouldn't mean anything.

So, bitcoin is safe because majority of miners are beyond the reach of NSA in China.

Safe from NSA, not safe from Communist government which can make BTC illegal/nationalize mines

Capitalist governments can also make BTC illegal/nationalize mines and even peoples possessions.

Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States". The effect of the order, in conjunction with the statute under which it was issued, was to criminalize the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation.

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[Blacula X]

I have yet to see a single feasible idea of how bitcoin can be "destroyed". ...

- Find dirt on devs; offer laughably small sums of money to put on jackboots. Alternative: fed time.
- Offer Chinese miners actual IRL money > 12.5 BTC after the halvening to solve blocks.
- Block port 8333 at provider level.
- Be like Russia and Iceland, make BTC illegal.

Maybe you're just not looking?

-Dirt on Devs? Why would that make a difference in mathematical calculation? This is an open source project and any person on the planet can be a dev. The bitcoin core dev team is the most recognized team, but the community can chose any distro by simply running it.  Devs have absolutely no more control than anyone. They come up with ideas that are adopted by consensus. Some people may adopt whatever the devs write or support their work. That is a choice we all make equally.

When was the last time you audited the code? Do you even code? And sure, devs have much more control than everyone.

-So the NSA is going to offer millions (billions?) of dollars to miners in China? Where is that money coming from? It would take congressional funding. "Congress I want a billion dollars to give to the Chinese so that we can disrupt the bitcoin network for a few weeks. Oh, and we get nothing in return." that is not logical.

You think NSA can't raise millions, billions, or trillions of dollars? You think NSA is poor? The sort of money needed to buy out the miners is probably in their petty cash drawer

-Blocking port 8333 is extremely easy to deal with. It would also require the cooperation of every single provider on Earth. It is impossible to imagine. As I mentioned earlier, loss of net neutrality is the only way to broadly disrupt transactions. This would, however, only apply to servers in the U.S. I would just rent some server space in Panama and carry on.

It would not require every provider, just your provider. Also see the Great Chinese Firewall, Easily done on nationwide level.

Illegal on what grounds? The law is not just a guy who says what is illegal. There has to be a legal justification and the courts in the U.S. have already made their decision. Some people point out that liberty dollars and other currencies have been found to be illegal in the past. But none of those arguments were found to be valid in the case of bitcoin. If you live in a dictatorship or something then this may be a problem.

Please. You really think American people accept strip-searches before boarding a plane, no smoking in bars, but will somehow revolt when the currency already responsible for 40% of criminal payments on the internet gets banned? Just lol.

[X badapple X]

Safe from NSA, not safe from Communist government which can make BTC illegal/nationalize mines

Capitalist governments can also make BTC illegal/nationalize mines and even peoples possessions.

Good point, that too!

[jackg]

Some ideas on how it could work:

- Read through the connection data (phone,email etc) from key figures of the Bitcoin community to gain insider knowledge
- Infiltrate core development and replace Bitcoin key figures with NSA staff
- Discredit respected members of the community
- Kill people, if they don't corporate.


Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid?

It would be easier for them to reverse engieer every address as there will be similarities between that and the rivate keys.
Alternatively, broardcasting transactions and bypassing the initial core requirements for sent transactions would also allow for them to control Bitcoin.

Whilst improbable there will always be a way for certain eople to take over the network and manipulate it in their favour.

What would be easier, to buy a billion Bitcoins and sell them on in stacks of 1 million at $1/Bitcoin deflating the market of Bitcoin and forcin people to withdraw from Bitcoin (they could also buy all the bitcoins mined and found at £500 each).

[18xk5oT2rLrAc24SL96XT14BX]

 they can try ... but I don't think they will achieve their goal . (unless the Bitcoin community goes retard and don't care about decentralization and privacy etc... anymore).

[Blacula X]

What would be easier, to buy a billion Bitcoins and sell them on in stacks of 1 million at $1/Bitcoin deflating the market of Bitcoin and forcin people to withdraw from Bitcoin (they could also buy all the bitcoins mined and found at £500 each).

What would be easiest is just making cashing out into fiat difficult (banking regulations),

[Holliday]

Capitalist Corporatist governments can also make BTC illegal/nationalize mines and even peoples possessions.

Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States". The effect of the order, in conjunction with the statute under which it was issued, was to criminalize the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation.

FTFY

Capitalism is based on private ownership of the means of production. When you start talking about nationalizing things, you are no longer talking about capitalism.

[X badapple X]

Capitalist Corporatist governments can also make BTC illegal/nationalize mines and even peoples possessions.

Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States". The effect of the order, in conjunction with the statute under which it was issued, was to criminalize the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation.

FTFY

Capitalism is based on private ownership of the means of production. When you start talking about nationalizing things, you are no longer talking about capitalism.

Gold is "means of production"?
Though many countries that are considered to be capitalist "nationalize" the means of production when times are tough. Think Britain during WW2.

[becoin]

It would be easier for them to reverse engieer every address as there will be similarities between that and the rivate keys.

Are you sure you know what are talking about?

[Evildrum]

NSA would most likely not be working alone in this manner and they could use dirty funds to manipulate the price if needed to make bitcoin look unstable. They could run smear campaigns on high ranked bitcoin founders and celebrities. Any step that did not work would escalate the issue till it was dealt with once and for all.

[JaneEverycunt]

NSA ... could run smear campaigns on high ranked bitcoin founders and celebrities.

Number of [ex] Bitcoin Foundation directors doing time: 2 that I know of (Charlie and MagicalTux). No smear campaigns required

[BellaBitBit]

Not going to happen.  They would have to deal with the Chinese on this and this is an American agency.  The good part about bitcoin is that it is global and there is no global agency that can take control of it.

[RodeoX]

When was the last time you audited the code? Do you even code? And sure, devs have much more control than everyone.

It has been months since I looked at it closely. I compile from source but it's true that I don't check every distro. I also know C++ but I'm not good enough to call myself a coder and do relie on the community to discover malicious code  to some degree.

You think NSA can't raise millions, billions, or trillions of dollars? You think NSA is poor? The sort of money needed to buy out the miners is probably in their petty cash drawer

They struggle to make their budget like every other agency. While they have big money they also have huge expenses. The annual budget is about 11 Billion. They are not stupid and anyone proposing to spend 10% of the budget on an operation with no logical purpose will be looking for a job soon.

It would not require every provider, just your provider. Also see the Great Chinese Firewall, Easily done on nationwide level.

Then my new provider in Panama gets the worm. China may be a different story. They are a totalitarian state and could do whatever they want to their people.

Please. You really think American people accept strip-searches before boarding a plane, no smoking in bars, but will somehow revolt when the currency already responsible for 40% of criminal payments on the internet gets banned? Just lol.

I fly all the time and have never been strip searched, and I commute from the middle east. They do not support a strip search and that is why it is not happening.
Banning smoking in bars was a decision by society because few people smoke anymore. It doesn't bother me, but most people support the ban. When most Americans smoked it was unthinkable to have such a rule.
Now where did you come up with this 40% figure?

[Blacula X]

When was the last time you audited the code? Do you even code? And sure, devs have much more control than everyone.

It has been months since I looked at it closely. I compile from source but it's true that I don't check every distro. I also know C++ but I'm not good enough to call myself a coder and do relie on the community to discover malicious code  to some degree.

You think NSA can't raise millions, billions, or trillions of dollars? You think NSA is poor? The sort of money needed to buy out the miners is probably in their petty cash drawer

They struggle to make their budget like every other agency. While they have big money they also have huge expenses. The annual budget is about 11 Billion. They are not stupid and anyone proposing to spend 10% of the budget on an operation with no logical purpose will be looking for a job soon.

It would not require every provider, just your provider. Also see the Great Chinese Firewall, Easily done on nationwide level.

Then my new provider in Panama gets the worm. China may be a different story. They are a totalitarian state and could do whatever they want to their people.

Please. You really think American people accept strip-searches before boarding a plane, no smoking in bars, but will somehow revolt when the currency already responsible for 40% of criminal payments on the internet gets banned? Just lol.

I fly all the time and have never been strip searched, and I commute from the middle east. They do not support a strip search and that is why it is not happening.
Banning smoking in bars was a decision by society because few people smoke anymore. It doesn't bother me, but most people support the ban. When most Americans smoked it was unthinkable to have such a rule.
Now where did you come up with this 40% figure?

So you don't think NSA can raise a few million bucks? Just lol.

Re. not having been strip searched: I have. Had a coin in my pocket. NY to LA flight.

Re. 40%: "Europol said that, according to its data, bitcoin accounts for as much as 40% of criminal-to-criminal payments online, with PayPal accounting for 25% of those reported. The figures build on previous statements from the agency regarding cryptocurrencies as a key factor in the development of the so-called "crime-as-a-service" ecosystem." -- http://www.coindesk.com/europol-bitcoin-european-cybercriminals/

[becoin]

The figures build on previous statements from the agency regarding cryptocurrencies as a key factor in the development of the so-called "crime-as-a-service" ecosystem."

This is the way it is supposed to be. Every service that is not under government control is a crime. Bitcoin separates money from state. It is a crime by definition!

[Blacula X]

The figures build on previous statements from the agency regarding cryptocurrencies as a key factor in the development of the so-called "crime-as-a-service" ecosystem."

This is the way it is supposed to be. Every service that is not under government control is a crime. Bitcoin separates money from state. It is a crime by definition!

You're misattributing. Fix pl0x.

[AGD]

Still, my question remains:

Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid?

[TotalPanda]

I think they would start by buying a bitcointalk member account (at least hero level) and making a post asking for ideas... something like "How could NSA take control over Bitcoin?" 

hahaha 

[DimensionZ]

Not going to happen.  They would have to deal with the Chinese on this and this is an American agency.  The good part about bitcoin is that it is global and there is no global agency that can take control of it.

But an agency backed by the government surely has the resources to build a supercomputer that can do a 51% attack on the Bitcoin network. The Chinese have most of the hashing power only because the electricity there is very cheap but that doesn't mean any other country in the world couldn't emulate the Chinese mining farms hashing power. Bitcoin has no headquarters anywhere in the world but it still is dependent on the Internet to function.

[BitcoinSupremo]

I hope in the Chinese don't let NSA or CIA to make a 51% network attack, as they will be losing the most in this situation. Still why would NSA want to block Bitcoin? For now its not a threat but maybe in future if Bitcoin goes mainstream, then if its not by the government its not legal by definition may really take place as a situation.