Is CHINA CONTROLLING Bitcoin?

[jbreher]

The only way to find cheap electricity is moving to China ...

I'm getting awfully weary of this assertion being bandied about as gospel. All y'all need to check your facts. If cheap-ass electricity was an all-encomapssing criteria for miners, the bulk of hash power would be in Saudi Arabia

Could you please provide detailed statistic here? The data by the link in your post requires expensive subscription, while the image you attached is not informative. Did you check it yourself? Even if China is not the cheapest country in terms of electricity costs, it is a major producer of mining equipment, which might be another decisive factor in the story of Chinese mining. Also, there are different costs for different types of consumers...

For example, industrial vs home use

Sorry - if you google the words in the leaf of the URL, you can get past the paywall.

Summary:
China - 0.11 USD/kWh
Saudi Arabia - 0.07 USD/kWh (call it close to a ~1/3 discount w/respect to China?)
United States - 0.18 USD/kWh (call it close to a ~1/3 premium w/respect to China?)

Wikipedia shows results that are not conflicting, though in stating it as a range, it is hard to make any firm declarations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing
though clearly, the bottom of China's range (0.04 USD/kWh) is well in excess of the bottom of other districts' range (e.g., India at 0.001 USD/kWh).

Yes, being close to the assembly houses, those being close to the PCBA stuffers, and those being close to the semiconductor fabs are an advantage. But not an insurmountable one.

I'm just trying to point out that the insistence upon power costs being an intractable barrier to entry in the Bitcoin mining space is nothing but a canard.

[asuryan180]

they can hoard it but not control, btc is decentralized, noone can control it, you could try to pump but not control

Mining is the primary source of new bitcoins entering the market. Controlling the offer side of the orderbooks essentially means that you can manipulate the price of Bitcoin in certain limits. If control over Bitcoin price is not control of Bitcoin itself, what would then count as control? If the Chinese miners can outright shut down Bitcoin should they decide so (or someone decides for them), would that pass as control?

What does control mean after all?

Well,it can be understood in many ways,but I don't think China controls BTC in the exact meaning of the word "control"-there may be regulations but I don't think that fully means control-and yeah most of the miners are in China but that doesn't mean anything really,it doesn't mean control,miners can be anywhere in the world and that won't affect BTC much really.

[deisik]

Summary:
China - 0.11 USD/kWh
Saudi Arabia - 0.07 USD/kWh (call it close to a ~1/3 discount w/respect to China?)
United States - 0.18 USD/kWh (call it close to a ~1/3 premium w/respect to China?)

Wikipedia shows results that are not conflicting, though in stating it as a range, it is hard to make any firm declarations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing
though clearly, the bottom of China's range (0.04 USD/kWh) is well in excess of the bottom of other districts' range (e.g., India at 0.001 USD/kWh).

Yes, being close to the assembly houses, those being close to the PCBA stuffers, and those being close to the semiconductor fabs are an advantage. But not an insurmountable one.

I'm just trying to point out that the insistence upon power costs being an intractable barrier to entry in the Bitcoin mining space is nothing but a canard.

I guess you would have a lot of pain in the ass if you were trying to mine Bitcoin in Saudi Arabia

they can hoard it but not control, btc is decentralized, noone can control it, you could try to pump but not control

Mining is the primary source of new bitcoins entering the market. Controlling the offer side of the orderbooks essentially means that you can manipulate the price of Bitcoin in certain limits. If control over Bitcoin price is not control of Bitcoin itself, what would then count as control? If the Chinese miners can outright shut down Bitcoin should they decide so (or someone decides for them), would that pass as control?

What does control mean after all?

Well,it can be understood in many ways,but I don't think China controls BTC in the exact meaning of the word "control"-there may be regulations but I don't think that fully means control-and yeah most of the miners are in China but that doesn't mean anything really,it doesn't mean control,miners can be anywhere in the world and that won't affect BTC much really.

Chinese mining pools have a sort of exclusive veto over future updates to Bitcoin, since they most likely have over 51% of hashing power. I assume this is enough to say that they control Bitcoin. Besides, we don't really know how many individual miners from all over the world these pools actually consist of. I'm more inclined to think that these mining pools are in fact located in one place (a few places) and are represented by a few huge mining farms, not thousands of individual miners...

I don't mean to say that individual miners can't mine there, but the bulk of hashing power is still provided by these farms

[kryptqnick]

Whoah, people answer to this question nearly equally. I gues that is because we lack some other options like 'partial control'. Yes, a lot of mining occurs in China but it doesn't mean that bitcoin is totally controlled by it. As time goes, mining becomes harder and so China loses at least control of the price, because online casinos and other websites hold a lot more than pools mine.

[Rinder]

I do believe its more easy to set up investment into China then into Saudi Arabia, but the rates are quite impressive, sure China does have a lot of potencial control over the big miners, but they wont act that way, otherwise they may kill bitcoin, and its something i believe they dont wanna, even being able to influence bitcoin.

[CGC Project]

The only way to find cheap electricity is moving to China ...

I'm getting awfully weary of this assertion being bandied about as gospel. All y'all need to check your facts. If cheap-ass electricity was an all-encomapssing criteria for miners, the bulk of hash power would be in Saudi Arabia

Could you please provide detailed statistic here? The data by the link in your post requires expensive subscription, while the image you attached is not informative. Did you check it yourself? Even if China is not the cheapest country in terms of electricity costs, it is a major producer of mining equipment, which might be another decisive factor in the story of Chinese mining. Also, there are different costs for different types of consumers...

For example, industrial vs home use

Sorry - if you google the words in the leaf of the URL, you can get past the paywall.

Summary:
China - 0.11 USD/kWh
Saudi Arabia - 0.07 USD/kWh (call it close to a ~1/3 discount w/respect to China?)
United States - 0.18 USD/kWh (call it close to a ~1/3 premium w/respect to China?)

Wikipedia shows results that are not conflicting, though in stating it as a range, it is hard to make any firm declarations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing
though clearly, the bottom of China's range (0.04 USD/kWh) is well in excess of the bottom of other districts' range (e.g., India at 0.001 USD/kWh).

Yes, being close to the assembly houses, those being close to the PCBA stuffers, and those being close to the semiconductor fabs are an advantage. But not an insurmountable one.

I'm just trying to point out that the insistence upon power costs being an intractable barrier to entry in the Bitcoin mining space is nothing but a canard.

Damn.. we all should move to that Indian city!

[jbreher]

Summary:
China - 0.11 USD/kWh
Saudi Arabia - 0.07 USD/kWh (call it close to a ~1/3 discount w/respect to China?)
United States - 0.18 USD/kWh (call it close to a ~1/3 premium w/respect to China?)

Wikipedia shows results that are not conflicting, though in stating it as a range, it is hard to make any firm declarations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing
though clearly, the bottom of China's range (0.04 USD/kWh) is well in excess of the bottom of other districts' range (e.g., India at 0.001 USD/kWh).

Yes, being close to the assembly houses, those being close to the PCBA stuffers, and those being close to the semiconductor fabs are an advantage. But not an insurmountable one.

I'm just trying to point out that the insistence upon power costs being an intractable barrier to entry in the Bitcoin mining space is nothing but a canard.

I guess you would have a lot of pain in the ass if you were trying to mine Bitcoin in Saudi Arabia

While we can ignore for the time being India's 40:1 advantage over China in cheapest known electric rates (only in order to allow you an arguing point), what makes Saudi Arabia such a PITA for Bitcion mining, in your estimation?

[CoinPro69]

Basically China is the FED of Bitcoin

[hulla]

People here have claimed that Bitcoin is in fact controlled and ruled by China, as mining is centralized by Chinese mining institutions.

Do you think that China is controlling/ruling bitcoin yes or no?

China has a big population when we are talking in population but in user i don't think that many people are using bitcoin in there country and yes we can say that china is really rich when it comes in gold and others needs and they have minings but i don't think so that china really controlling bitcoin and they have fully controlled of the price.

Yes, China is a high population country. Mind you they also love technology there both young and adult. In addition to, we all love to make money, so tell me what will stop a young man/lady from making money thru bitcoin when all what he/she need is within him/her reach?

[arcanaaerobics]

People here have claimed that Bitcoin is in fact controlled and ruled by China, as mining is centralized by Chinese mining institutions.

Do you think that China is controlling/ruling bitcoin yes or no?

China has a big population when we are talking in population but in user i don't think that many people are using bitcoin in there country and yes we can say that china is really rich when it comes in gold and others needs and they have minings but i don't think so that china really controlling bitcoin and they have fully controlled of the price.

Yes, China is a high population country. Mind you they also love technology there both young and adult. In addition to, we all love to make money, so tell me what will stop a young man/lady from making money thru bitcoin when all what he/she need is within him/her reach?

There's few people in China mining bitcoin, so when we talk about China controlling bitcoin, it's just few peoples in china controlling...
I think they can earn million in a month mining and hold it to sell in the future, so it's obvilous that they can control the price.

[De Selby]

Well, China is the prime choice for running a mining farm for the following reasons:

a) dirty cheap electricity.

b) low manufacturing/shipping costs for mining equipment.

c) it has a relatively mild climate compared to Saudi Arabia, which is classified as having a 'hot desert climate'. The average yearly temperature in Riyadh is 80° F! The cooling costs alone would negate any benefits derived from the access to cheap electricity.

d) population that enjoys speculative ventures (i.e., gambling.)

[Catmony]

Well, China is the prime choice for running a mining farm for the following reasons:

a) dirty cheap electricity.

b) low manufacturing/shipping costs for mining equipment.

c) it has a relatively mild climate compared to Saudi Arabia, which is classified as having a 'hot desert climate'. The average yearly temperature in Riyadh is 80° F! The cooling costs alone would negate any benefits derived from the access to cheap electricity.

d) population that enjoying speculative ventures (i.e., gambling.)

Really nice reasons listed 

Cheap electricity and cold environment with lots of spare space is enough to make that place heaven for bitcoin miners.

As well as chinese government also seem to support bitcoin mining farms because that will generate extra USD for them, they don't have to sell their currency to get more Dollar.

[Daffadile]

They only say that because china is the worlds largest manufactions country. Most things are made in china and so bitcoin would also be something they all jump aboard on. They will have loads and loads of miners and people maintaining them for minimal wage. The most like manufacture mist miners in china so it all makes sense.

[bitllionaire]

they just have a large percentage of mining Bitcoin, that doesnt mean theyre centralizing bitcoin.
But if they work together, they can attack bitcoin.

yes that is also a fact that they have a large number of bitcoin minors, but it does not mean that they can influence bitcoin, as bitcoin is not a centralize currency therefore it is not so easy to control bitcoin.

[bitcoinisbest]

Very much as majority of the bitcoin is being held by Chinese and if all decide to sell bitcoin will go down to below 100$ so its China who has the power to increase or decrease the btc price.

[darklus123]

Well, China is the prime choice for running a mining farm for the following reasons:

a) dirty cheap electricity.

b) low manufacturing/shipping costs for mining equipment.

c) it has a relatively mild climate compared to Saudi Arabia, which is classified as having a 'hot desert climate'. The average yearly temperature in Riyadh is 80° F! The cooling costs alone would negate any benefits derived from the access to cheap electricity.

d) population that enjoying speculative ventures (i.e., gambling.)

That dirty cheap electricity really hooks investors. Especially in this industry (mining to be specific). We all do know that it was the primary concern when it comes to mining. In terms of population(i think it would not matter that match since there were a lot of online casinos right now which caters the world)

[deisik]

Very much as majority of the bitcoin is being held by Chinese and if all decide to sell bitcoin will go down to below 100$ so its China who has the power to increase or decrease the btc price.

Unless very serious tensions develop between China and the US, which is unlikely, I don't think that the Chinese miners (or whoever controls them) are going to do anything heavily detrimental to Bitcoin. They grabbed the mining power (some may question that but personally, I don't have any doubts about that), and therefore they should be the first among those most interested in the long term success of Bitcoin and consistent rise of Bitcoin price. So far they have been managing Bitcoin almost flawlessly...

Barring certain Chinese exchanges that got hacked in August, of course

[diodio5]

People here have claimed that Bitcoin is in fact controlled and ruled by China, as mining is centralized by Chinese mining institutions.

Do you think that China is controlling/ruling bitcoin yes or no?

China has a big population when we are talking in population but in user i don't think that many people are using bitcoin in there country and yes we can say that china is really rich when it comes in gold and others needs and they have minings but i don't think so that china really controlling bitcoin and they have fully controlled of the price.

Yes, China is a high population country. Mind you they also love technology there both young and adult. In addition to, we all love to make money, so tell me what will stop a young man/lady from making money thru bitcoin when all what he/she need is within him/her reach?

There's few people in China mining bitcoin, so when we talk about China controlling bitcoin, it's just few peoples in china controlling...
I think they can earn million in a month mining and hold it to sell in the future, so it's obvilous that they can control the price.

I do not know about this, can you tell me, is there any correlation advance of the number of users in a country could make mining bitcoin prices become distorted, or control bitcoin? I'm very confused by it

[marcus_of_augustus]

India is coming up fast ... and Russia too.

[michkima]

I don't think China or a country for that matter can control how bitcoin moves. It move based on how the whole world uses it. It is just affected by supply and demand. If the demand for bitcoin goes up then so will the price.