Bitcoin Forum
May 02, 2024, 05:21:50 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Why would anyone buy this DAO crap?  (Read 6419 times)
btctube
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 500


View Profile
May 19, 2016, 03:04:13 AM
 #61

You can retweet that with all your accounts and hope you get all the satisfaction but nothing stops DAO still.
1714670510
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714670510

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714670510
Reply with quote  #2

1714670510
Report to moderator
1714670510
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714670510

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714670510
Reply with quote  #2

1714670510
Report to moderator
1714670510
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714670510

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714670510
Reply with quote  #2

1714670510
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714670510
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714670510

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714670510
Reply with quote  #2

1714670510
Report to moderator
benthach
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000


View Profile WWW
May 19, 2016, 03:33:17 AM
 #62

I'm sure your anti semitic rants will have institutional investors rushing to buy bitcoin...or litecoin...or any crypto that isn't ethereum

what's happenning to this digixdao scam now? is this dao hype still on?

reddit btcwriter1 - twitter kingpininvestor
eca.sh
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 29
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 19, 2016, 09:21:07 AM
Last edit: May 19, 2016, 10:34:53 AM by eca.sh
 #63

The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

How does a project effectively function with the daily or even major decisions of a project delegated to the fluctuating whims and politics of voting? Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

Does the DAO bypass the classification of an ICO as an investment security?

The voting aspect confers legal rights and requires centralized organization. Whereas, decentralized version control open-source has no elected center; and proof-of-work decentralized mining controlled protocols have no permanent voting shares.


http://www.cuttingedgecapital.com/what-is-a-security-and-why-does-it-matter/

“when a purchaser is motivated by a desire to use or consume the item purchased . . . the securities laws do not apply.”

“Finally, we examine whether some factor such as the existence of another regulatory scheme significantly reduces the risk of the instrument, thereby rendering application of the Securities Acts unnecessary.”

“The court formulated a new test for whether something is a security, called the “risk capital test” which considers whether funds are being raised for a business venture or enterprise;

whether the investors are substantially powerless to effect [sic] the success of the enterprise


https://coincenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bitcoin-Primer-2ndEd.pdf#page=35

it [the protocol] would become truly nebulous, running on the shared resources of thousands of distributed computers and not controlled by any central authority.”


https://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

“As a result, these crowd sales share many similarities with traditional securities offerings where investors purchase stock as a bet on the future success of a company.”

“Although most people consider the dollars in their pockets as nothing more than a means for paying for goods and services, the truth is that those dollars are also an investment. The U.S. dollar fluctuates in value relative to other foreign currencies and relative to the goods and services that can be purchased with dollars. If today, you can buy more packs of gum, more light bulbs, or more Euros than you could have bought yesterday with the same amount of dollars, you have profited from your investment in dollars. The value of a U.S. Dollar investment fluctuates based on countless factors such as interest rate levels, trade deficits with other countries, and government policy. To some extent, an investment in the U.S. dollar is an investment in the U.S. economy relative to other countries’ economies.

Holding bitcoins is also an investment. But instead of an investment in a country’s economy, holding bitcoins can be seen as an investment in the network and technology behind Bitcoin.”

No management structure – Indeed, most platforms that require users to transact with a proprietary coin are called decentralized applications because they operate not based on the decisions of a management team or central authority, but based on a defined set of protocols. (For context, a good analogy is to look at how email functions with no central authority behind it.) As a result, when purchasing a coin, unlike when purchasing a stock, an investor is not making the equivalent of a bet on a management team’s ability to operate a profitable company. Instead, an investor is often making a bet on how useful and popular a particular network application will become.

This distinction is not as clear cut when a development team sells a proprietary coin during a crowd sale. In that instance, investors can also be seen as making a bet on a development team’s ability to launch some related project or platform like Storj.”

“Different information asymmetry – Securities laws are based primarily on a principle that full disclosure helps close information gaps between management and investors. As a result, companies planning to offer securities to the public are required to publicize certain defined information about their operations and financial health. Due to the fact that cryptocurrency investors are often investing in a decentralized application and not a management team, they are likely most interested in learning how the protocol behind that application works, not how the initial development team operates. And most popular decentralized applications are already open source, meaning that the protocol for how they will operate can be viewed by anyone.”

“No legal rights – Another key distinction is that cryptocurrencies do not grant their holders any traditional legal rights granted to securities holders. Holding a proprietary coin does not legally entitle one to share in profits realized by the project funded by the sale of that coin or to vote on key decisions that may need to be made about that project’s future.”
hv_
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506
Merit: 1055

Clean Code and Scale


View Profile WWW
May 19, 2016, 09:30:34 AM
 #64

If you sit on a (big) bunch of ETH, what would you do with it?

There is no real use case (yet) - so kick them into sth new hypy / at least with 20% ...


For physics:

You can solve a 2 body Problem, good!

3 bodies ? - Ohh - hard....


Many bodies ?  -> do some mean field aproach and look for equilibrium states.


I predict that the DAO power w/o any CEO  or 2-lead CEOs  will fall into the many body trap and tend to equilibrium decisions   ==  DEATH

Look @bitcoin actual Problems: Here 2-3 groups cannot agree on a consensus solution...

Cheers

Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
Fix real world issues: Check out b-vote.com
The simple way is the genius way - Satoshi's Rules: humana veris _
TrueAnon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000


View Profile
May 19, 2016, 02:36:26 PM
 #65

I bought in but just hope i dont get burned Embarrassed
r0ach (OP)
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000


View Profile
May 19, 2016, 04:37:42 PM
 #66

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

I'm not sure what side you're trying to take on if it's an investment security or not, but since it's not possible to even have a decentralized system without PoW (PoS is a permissioned ledger), that seems like it would automatically fail for all Eth's legal defenses once they switch to proof of stake.  The fact that they held an IPO for the proof of stake system just puts them further in the grave.

Maybe I should buy just 1 Eth so I can sue them for fraud.

......ATLANT......
..Real Estate Blockchain Platform..
                    ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
                    ████████████░
                  ▄██████████████░
                 ▒███████▄████████░
                ▒█████████░████████░
                ▀███████▀█████████
                  ██████████████
           ███████▐██▀████▐██▄████████░
          ▄████▄█████████▒████▌█████████░
         ███████▄█████████▀██████████████░
        █████████▌█████████▐█████▄████████░
        ▀█████████████████▐███████████████
          █████▀████████ ░███████████████
    ██████▐██████████▄████████████████████████░
  ▄████▄████████▐███████████████░▄▄▄▄░████████░
 ▄██████▄█████████▐█████▄█████████▀████▄█████████░
███████████████████▐█████▄█████████▐██████████████░
▀████████▀█████████▒██████████████▐█████▀█████████
  ████████████████ █████▀█████████████████████████
   ▀██▀██████████ ▐█████████████  ▀██▀██████████
    ▀▀█████████    ▀▀█████████    ▀▀██████████

..INVEST  ●  RENT  ●  TRADE..
 ✓Assurance     ✓Price Discovery     ✓Liquidity     ✓Low Fees





███
███
███
███
███
███





███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███

◣Whitepaper ◣ANN ThreadTelegram
◣ Facebook     ◣ Reddit          ◣ Slack


███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███





███
███
███
███
███
███








Hero/Legendary members
eca.sh
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 29
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 19, 2016, 05:25:04 PM
Last edit: May 19, 2016, 05:46:14 PM by eca.sh
 #67

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

I'm not sure what side you're trying to take on if it's an investment security or not, but since it's not possible to even have a decentralized system without PoW (PoS is a permissioned ledger), that seems like it would automatically fail for all Eth's legal defenses once they switch to proof of stake.  The fact that they held an IPO for the proof of stake system just puts them further in the grave.

Maybe I should buy just 1 Eth so I can sue them for fraud.

It is obvious that a DAO can't function with decentralized control. Even the voting requires some centralized organization.

If you argue that proof-of-stake is not a decentralized protocol, you must also argue that Bitcoin's mining is not centralized, because the FinCEN guidance explicitly mentioned "computer computation" in the definition of decentralized virtual currencies.

More discussion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1474403.msg14899137#msg14899137
TrueAnon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000


View Profile
May 19, 2016, 06:42:25 PM
 #68

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

I'm not sure what side you're trying to take on if it's an investment security or not, but since it's not possible to even have a decentralized system without PoW (PoS is a permissioned ledger), that seems like it would automatically fail for all Eth's legal defenses once they switch to proof of stake.  The fact that they held an IPO for the proof of stake system just puts them further in the grave.

Maybe I should buy just 1 Eth so I can sue them for fraud.

It is obvious that a DAO can't function with decentralized control. Even the voting requires some centralized organization.

If you argue that proof-of-stake is not a decentralized protocol, you must also argue that Bitcoin's mining is not centralized, because the FinCEN guidance explicitly mentioned "computer computation" in the definition of decentralized virtual currencies.

More discussion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1474403.msg14899137#msg14899137

I'm glad it's not all RAHRAHRAH for Dao as people so easily blinded at times.
I mean I "think" it could see amazing results but will it.....esp with as described above.
Zer0Sum
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1588
Merit: 1000


View Profile
May 19, 2016, 07:44:04 PM
 #69



This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.
GreenBits
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148
Merit: 1048



View Profile
May 19, 2016, 07:50:35 PM
 #70



This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.
.

What, in the blue fuck, is that? Dammit people, the blockchain can't solve every fucking thing. That's a toy as far as I'm concerned, pardon my ignorance if I have failed to see the use case for a robotic power wheel.

There are too many vastly superior companies making autonomous EVs. And a blockchain is wholly unnecessary, why does there need to be a ledger of the rentals?

Do you care who rented the red box end before you did? Do the shareholders care? Does anyone honestly care?
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198



View Profile
May 19, 2016, 09:11:04 PM
 #71

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

The algorithm does. Any token holder can submit a proposal and open proposals are displayed in descending order by the amount of deposit paid.
sandiman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560
Merit: 501



View Profile
May 19, 2016, 09:46:34 PM
 #72



This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.
.

What, in the blue fuck, is that? Dammit people, the blockchain can't solve every fucking thing. That's a toy as far as I'm concerned, pardon my ignorance if I have failed to see the use case for a robotic power wheel.

There are too many vastly superior companies making autonomous EVs. And a blockchain is wholly unnecessary, why does there need to be a ledger of the rentals?

Do you care who rented the red box end before you did? Do the shareholders care? Does anyone honestly care?


You guys don't see the full potential of the blockchain. Anyone could create an autonomous organization of self driving cars when the technology will be ready. You would use such car to go from point A to point B and pay it. Then, the car could charge or fuel back itself, and if it made profit even buy another car to add to "its" fleet (or expand the general fleet, depending on the code).

Another example of autonomous organization could be a email spamming system. Corporation would use such AO to advertise themselve, and the AO i don't know with what kind of algorithm, would provide the service.

I don't know how can someone stay that long on the forum of bitcoin and so the blockchain technology, without first being interested in the technology and then passionated about its possibilities.
doc12
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1284
Merit: 1042


View Profile
May 19, 2016, 09:49:25 PM
 #73

Why not croudfound a DAO with the DAO ?  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

This is a perpetuum mobile for money Grin


Why exactly we need to buy bitcoin to buy ether to buy DAO to buy a share in a company. WTF?
stoat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 270


FREEDOM RESERVE


View Profile WWW
May 19, 2016, 11:10:46 PM
 #74



This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.
.

What, in the blue fuck, is that? Dammit people, the blockchain can't solve every fucking thing. That's a toy as far as I'm concerned, pardon my ignorance if I have failed to see the use case for a robotic power wheel.

There are too many vastly superior companies making autonomous EVs. And a blockchain is wholly unnecessary, why does there need to be a ledger of the rentals?

Do you care who rented the red box end before you did? Do the shareholders care? Does anyone honestly care?


You guys don't see the full potential of the blockchain. Anyone could create an autonomous organization of self driving cars when the technology will be ready. You would use such car to go from point A to point B and pay it. Then, the car could charge or fuel back itself, and if it made profit even buy another car to add to "its" fleet (or expand the general fleet, depending on the code).

Another example of autonomous organization could be a email spamming system. Corporation would use such AO to advertise themselve, and the AO i don't know with what kind of algorithm, would provide the service.

I don't know how can someone stay that long on the forum of bitcoin and so the blockchain technology, without first being interested in the technology and then passionated about its possibilities.


Well said.

The fact is, the reprobate specimens who frequent this forum are mostly scammers and promoters of fake and broken shitcoins,  it's natural that they would act in a churlish manner towards a crypto with genuine application in the real world.  The fucking tossers should get in the fucking sea

FREEDOMRESERVEFree currency for the British Isles
Visit our website for more info

<-- Click here!
FREEDOMRESERVE By the People and for the People
mrkavasaki
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 888
Merit: 500


View Profile
May 19, 2016, 11:32:34 PM
 #75

the eth price  is very high right now Tongue
is it still worth to invest?
eca.sh
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 29
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 20, 2016, 12:53:27 AM
 #76

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

The algorithm does. Any token holder can submit a proposal and open proposals are displayed in descending order by the amount of deposit paid.

To release the agreed bounty, a quorum of neophyte investors will vote to on whether the pull request submitted by the contracted programmer meets the requirements of the specification we originally approved by a prior vote? We will not depend on any experts to advise us? This will magically all coordinate itself in a decentralized manner without any de facto leaders emerging?

Whomever designed the DAO doesn't comprehend the how and why politics doesn't work.

“An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications.” — Lazarus Long

“A Snail: Monero built with decentralized donations.” — SOMAcoin
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198



View Profile
May 20, 2016, 12:55:20 AM
 #77

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

The algorithm does. Any token holder can submit a proposal and open proposals are displayed in descending order by the amount of deposit paid.

To release the agreed bounty, a quorum of neophyte investors will vote to on whether the pull request submitted by the contracted programmer meets the requirements of the specification we originally approved by a prior vote? We will not depend on any experts to advise us? This will magically all coordinate itself in a decentralized manner without any de facto leaders emerging?

You asked one question, and I answered it. Now you are asking another question, which unfortunately can not be answered in an objective manner because the answer lies not in code but in speculation about future events.

s1gs3gv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1316
Merit: 1014

ex uno plures


View Profile WWW
May 20, 2016, 01:50:28 AM
 #78


You guys don't see the full potential of the blockchain.


Au contraire, we have seen the potential AND the hype and have learned to distinguish between the two.

Zer0Sum nailed it.
s1gs3gv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1316
Merit: 1014

ex uno plures


View Profile WWW
May 20, 2016, 01:51:54 AM
 #79

You asked one question, and I answered it. Now you are asking another question, which unfortunately can not be answered in an objective manner because the answer lies not in code but in speculation about future events.

Huh ? What is wrong with you man. You can't foretell the future ?

~LOL~
fanatic26
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 560


View Profile
May 20, 2016, 01:59:49 AM
 #80

The amount of ethereum invested in the DAO far exceeds what has been mined if you discount the genesis block. Whoever actually controls the majority of ethereum can pump money into the DAO as well as manipulate the ETH price to make people think it is so much better than it actually is. Do the math then come back and tell me how great and popular it is...

Personally I smell pump and dump all over this thing.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!