Bitcointalk needs to be more noob friendly

[VinceSamios]

One of the struggles bitcoin needs to overcome to achieve mass acceptance is ease of use and understanding. Bitcoin Talk plays an invaluable role in this process as noobs and not-so-noobs venture here to understand, to teach, to help each other and more broadly bitcoin.

While I understand from a spam protection point of view, bitcointalk needs to have measures in place to deal with spammy bastards, there is a fine balance to be struck between controlling spam and facilitating the participation of newbies.

I've spent about 8 hours trying to accumulate the required 4 hours logged in time, because I can't just leave a browser open, and the session doesn't seem to carry for a few minutes (so if I spend longer than a few minutes reading a thread, those minutes aren't counted) - I've also found there to be a little bit of elitist attitude to participating in the forums. ie. "you need to know enough about bitcoins before you can participate" - that's not the right attitude, in fact it should be "welcome, you are new and you know nothing, so welcome into the fold, we will teach you".

I'm not one to criticise without making practical suggestions:

1) Definitely reduce the "total logged in time" - arguably to as low as 30 minutes should be more than enough to fight off the spammers.
2) Noobs need more forums where they can discuss things and feel included, rather than just a "noobs" forum.
3) A general attitude change to welcome noobs - to be honest I haven't found this place too elitist, save for a few threads in the noobs forum
4) Some hoops noobs can jump through to get verified more quickly - ie. the "Get me out of here" thread should theoretically auto-approve posters because they are clearly not bots. Or some other form of second stage authentication.

The other thing I noticed when I first joined is the noobs thread took a bit of finding, and I only went looking after I discovered I couldn't reply to a post. I'm not sure what measures are in place to provide info to noobs about their restrictions, my feedback would be to make this more obvious/prominent.

Meant with the best will in the world, for the betterment of bitcointalk and the community in general.

Vince

[Monster Tent]

We shouldnt hide the dark side of bitcoin.

[notbrain]

Agreed. And I gets my 3rd post!

[VinceSamios]

Agreed. And I gets my 3rd post!

and let me guess - about 17 minutes on the clock?

[Luno]

Before I registered, I found a lot of answers here. But this forum is very hard to find your way around for non members.

Your only option to follow what is currently being discussed is the last 5 posts section at the bottom of the page.

The moment I registered and got my "unread posts since last visit" things got a lot clearer.

So maybe, "unread posts since last visit" should be based on visiting IP instead for non members, that would bring a lot of newbs up to speed faster.

It would also make it less important to register so it might be counter productive.

[Isokivi]

Part of the unfriendliness to noobs is caused be the endless repetition of  allready hundereds of times answered questions (for the fourth year and counting). A part of the solution could be learning material and tests before you are allowed to post on the forums, possibly separate materials and tests for different forums.

[VinceSamios]

Why - God forbid people have questions, I know it might be tedious to answer them but I guess that is what we all, as custodians of bitcoin, should be happy to do.

Not wanting to answer those questions is one and the same with not wanting new people to become involved with bitcoin.

There are partial solutions, for example setup a shapado install on a sub-domain, but being anti-noob is totally counter productive.

[TheXev]

It might also be useful to include a few links to the "newb thread" in strategic locations.  Point it out in the confirmation email, perhaps have the registration confirmation forward the user to the newb thread so they can get informed right away, or maybe also include a link in the confirmation description.  You might also be able to figure a way to have the thread posted as an announcement only to newbie members at the top of every forum. 

I know that these things may take a bit of doing (boy do I know!), but any of these would save time and hassle.

[Akka]

The noob requirements are a good thing simply due to one point.

There are the same questions asked again and again. I have no problem with that. Noobs mostly have the same questions again and again and I answer them again and again 

But it's good to have this repeating questions sorted in one board so we don't get the "real" Bitcoin discussions "spammed" with them.

It's seems like an unfair thing for the people who have already spend some time learning about bitcoin before they join, but it's just the only wai to not get the Bitcoin discussions board flooded with questions about divisibility, 21 million limit, Free Bitcoin Sites, Should I mine or not, Give me Bitcoins, [Exchange Name] scammed me, Could Bitcoin be hacked, The Flaws of Bitcoin (that aren't), Bitcoin is unfair, etc.

So it's really a good thing.

Get over it.

[pinger]

I've registered and never get the limits of the newbie account, because I started reading every thread in this site before open my mouth. I just say hello and a few comments. I spent hours reading and that is what most people do before to talk something is already replied 300 times.

[VinceSamios]

So it's really a good thing.

Get over it.

It might be a "good" thing for existing members, however bitcoin is a revolutionary new technology which is incredibly difficult to understand for a normal person, and we all want millions, nay billions of "normal people" to get to grips with it. THAT is what is not just "Good" for existing members, but "BEST" for everyone.

Let noobs in roam free sooner - if they ask the same old questions move those questions to a "Noob Questions" part of the forum. Best of both worlds - I also don't think its as much of a problem as you suspect it will be.

If that is completely totally and utterly undoable (I know you people don't like change) - there are still two extremely valuable suggestions

1) Have a faster way for non-noobs who just happen to not have registered at bitcointalk before, to join in.
2) Make the newbie forum and restrictions more visible (because they aren't visible at all)

Embracing change is why we are all discussing bitcoin to begin with - so embrace a little change already.

[Oldsport]

Anyone who cannot make it through the little struggle of the newb stage, cannot make it through the massive struggle of Bitcoin. If you want it you'll fight for it, just like you spent the last 8 hours fighting for a right to be here. That proves to us that you're serious about this. A scammer or spammer would be deterred by that much time and effort. That's one less scammer or spammer around to mess with someone less educated on how to handle their Bitcoins in this community. So as far as I am concerned the forum does it's job well and is very newb friendly.

[Severian]

If you're here to learn, there's a lot to read.  You could check out Satoshi's posts to start:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3;sa=showPosts;start=0

I never learned anything by showing up as the FNG and telling everyone what they were doing wrong. But that's just me.

[VinceSamios]

If you want to keep bitcoin underground - I guess you're doing it right.

Just saying guys.

[Tas]

The thing that's most bothersome to me is the overt and self-righteous libertarian attitude of many members. In fact, the actual political beliefs do not bother me. Everyone has his own. What bothers me is that I must hear about them all the time or, worse, have them pushed onto me. Some people in these forums need to consider that...

-Political leanings appear to have strong genetic causes. And, if that is so, consider how logical (as opposed to instinctive and perhaps irrational) your stances on freedom, responsibility, government, or whatever else really are. [http://www.nature.com/news/biology-and-ideology-the-anatomy-of-politics-1.11645]
-You desire for bitcoin to go mainstream. Well, the mainstream is not libertarian (or leftist or whatever). What's more, this real-world fact is already reflected in this very community! Consider this study that was done recently [http://spacedruid.com/2013/02/26/the-demographics-of-bitcoin-part-1/]. 43% of bitcoiners from this forum and the bitcoin subreddits identified themselves as right-of-center/rightists, 7% as centrists, 49% as left-of-center/leftists. Is all this libertarian talk really welcoming to that 49%?
-Bitcoin as a concept is not libertarian (or at least entirely libertarian) in nature. Sure, some aspects of it (like its crypto features) really excite some libertarian folks. But leftists can find things in bitcoin to like too (internationalism, ease of use, advanced technology, innovation, revolutionary appeal, etc.). And, besides, everyone likes to makes money.
-Lastly, consider the old adages of the middle way being the best (Buddhist), moderation being best (Greek), or that politics and religion should not be discussed in polite conversation.

Not sure if this is off-topic, but that's what really bothers me as a new member (and perhaps others too).

[VinceSamios]

I think its a dicussion for another thread Tas, but I'm frankly astounded at the level of paranoia in the bitcoin community. Somewhat in contrast to the intentions expressed in the original bitcoin.pdf

[awkorama]

How can it possibly be more user friendly than blockchain.info my wallet ? Honestly it is much better than the real brick and mortar banking (including debit cards and cash handling)

[KWH]

Part of the unfriendliness to noobs is caused be the endless repetition of  allready hundereds of times answered questions (for the fourth year and counting). A part of the solution could be learning material and tests before you are allowed to post on the forums, possibly separate materials and tests for different forums.

This

[KWH]

Why - God forbid people have questions, I know it might be tedious to answer them but I guess that is what we all, as custodians of bitcoin, should be happy to do.

Not wanting to answer those questions is one and the same with not wanting new people to become involved with bitcoin.

There are partial solutions, for example setup a shapado install on a sub-domain, but being anti-noob is totally counter productive.

God forbid you actually use Google or Search. Oh the agony of actually trying to help yourself! 

[KWH]

One of the struggles bitcoin needs to overcome to achieve mass acceptance is ease of use and understanding. Bitcoin Talk plays an invaluable role in this process as noobs and not-so-noobs venture here to understand, to teach, to help each other and more broadly bitcoin.

While I understand from a spam protection point of view, bitcointalk needs to have measures in place to deal with spammy bastards, there is a fine balance to be struck between controlling spam and facilitating the participation of newbies.

I've spent about 8 hours trying to accumulate the required 4 hours logged in time, because I can't just leave a browser open, and the session doesn't seem to carry for a few minutes (so if I spend longer than a few minutes reading a thread, those minutes aren't counted) - I've also found there to be a little bit of elitist attitude to participating in the forums. ie. "you need to know enough about bitcoins before you can participate" - that's not the right attitude, in fact it should be "welcome, you are new and you know nothing, so welcome into the fold, we will teach you".

I'm not one to criticise without making practical suggestions:

1) Definitely reduce the "total logged in time" - arguably to as low as 30 minutes should be more than enough to fight off the spammers. Actually 24 hours would work better.
2) Noobs need more forums where they can discuss things and feel included, rather than just a "noobs" forum. Nope then the spam and even more lazy questions will fill the boards.
3) A general attitude change to welcome noobs - to be honest I haven't found this place too elitist, save for a few threads in the noobs forum   Could it be because most noobs are rude, demanding and downright lazy? Maybe?
4) Some hoops noobs can jump through to get verified more quickly - ie. the "Get me out of here" thread should theoretically auto-approve posters because they are clearly not bots. Or some other form of second stage authentication.  I vote for increasing post counts and hours for reading.

The other thing I noticed when I first joined is the noobs thread took a bit of finding, and I only went looking after I discovered I couldn't reply to a post. I'm not sure what measures are in place to provide info to noobs about their restrictions, my feedback would be to make this more obvious/prominent. Didn't read the rules, did you? You are a part of the problem. READ.

Meant with the best will in the world, for the betterment of bitcointalk and the community in general.

Vince