[BitFunder] G.ASICMINER-PT

[Vezunchik]

...
This is an issue for everyone, hopefully Ukyo opens up the gates today.

Aha, HOPE is a very liquid asset.
I've decided to avoid any contact with BitFunder in future. Look at this situation - how we can put anything in such unreliable service with Ukyo as owner.

[ThickAsThieves]

Since BitFunder does one thing right - and one only - you could ultimately use their public address list to prove you own the shares, and thus convert them to direct shares without any BitFunder intervention. BF would end up with a fractional reserve of shares, of course.

This is not possible because Friedcat only recognizes the shareholder on record.

[puck2]

Of course, for now.
But that feature is there so that when - not if, when - BitFunder fucks up too much, people will be able to get out.

What are the chances that the passthru is declared dead and all shares listed on public register are converted to direct shares? If we haven't tried to transfer and aren't running an arb boot, can we safely assume that our public listing of shares is considered valid?

[Vezunchik]

Since BitFunder does one thing right - and one only - you could ultimately use their public address list to prove you own the shares, and thus convert them to direct shares without any BitFunder intervention. BF would end up with a fractional reserve of shares, of course.

Good idea. We may make public, group request to FriedCat to allow this type of transfer.

[Ukyo]

Except that the asset is not dead, and as of right now some people would have to be shorted shares because there is a mess that we are in the process of cleaning up.

I think btct.co does solve this quite well. One transfer per month is free , everything else requires a fee to be paid (I think this limits most arb trading). Why not make that fee a small percentage of the to be transferred value (based on the current current market price the moment the transfer is requested). You could even share that fee with friedcat to compensate him for his troubles.
On a personal note: I would like to see the option to transfer to other PTs directly. This makes things so much easier if you've chosen one PT and want all your shares to be in one place. (all exchanges have advantages/disadvantages to them).

One more thing:
Can you please clarify your position of the share transfer out of your PT as soon as possible (required shares [if any, I hope you adopt the transfer-rules of the other PTs], fees fur multiple transfers, whether or not transfer to other PTs will be possible or not).

Thank you for your effort.

Hmm,  I don't thing charging a fee alleviates the issue of the work for FC. Even if its one transfer per month, people will just make additional accounts to transfer to to get around it.

I have had discussions with Burnside about direct PT transfers already. While we would both like to do it, it does cause an issue of issuing shares that the PT's fund's wont get paid for, along with other issues like if either side somehow 'generated' shares and sent the extra shares to the other PT which sells into the market unbacked. There are a lot of issues with this.

As for clarifying the position, that's the point of the discussion.
I have had several pm's from people with suggestions. Apparently some people do not want to share their opinions in public and cause a flame war. Which is fine by me. If you have a suggestion feel free to PM me.

[Vezunchik]

Please complete my withdraw request. This delay is unacceptable!

[Vezunchik]

Also I am going to open thread in "Scam Accusations" part. I think Ukyo is not going to return our shares at all.

[Ukyo]

Also I am going to open thread in "Scam Accusations" part. I think Ukyo is not going to return our shares at all.

PM's

Please complete my withdraw request. This delay is unacceptable!

Please complete my withdraw request. This delay is unacceptable!

Please complete my withdraw request. This delay is unacceptable!

Please complete my withdraw request. This delay is unacceptable!

Please complete my request.

+ at least 3 more.

Congratulations, you are the first person I have ever put on ignore.
This was due to constantly spamming me.

While I have control over the email address, I do not have control over the shares as they have not been confirmed to be moved to the new PT bitcoin address.
Apparently Friedcat somehow is not 100% sure what is going on and we are working to resolve this.

Hi FC,

I can confirm that I am not in control of the g.asicminer.pt@gmail.com email address.
I did not see an obvious email address for you there.

[8/31/2013 8:10:35 AM] Ludvig: Addresses to be transfered from are the following
[8/31/2013 8:10:39 AM] Ludvig: 1Ep3QFm5uqfoqPMG4HKq6yauMhdtyQTAsG

...

[8/31/2013 8:10:50 AM] Ludvig: give FC that info and your new Bitcoin address
[8/31/2013 8:10:53 AM] Ludvig: CC me so I can confirm


Please transfer to the following address:
124pXdLYTZtAQ95gHdL43fTofaS5bHqAFi

Thank You,
Ukyo / Jon

Hi Ukyo and DeaDTerra,

Since we have no idea of what's happening. Would you please explain it to us? Do you need us to transfer all shares from both 1Ep3QFm5uqfoqPMG4HKq6yauMhdtyQTAsG and 19mvuvS2VgCWDtfGpsLnJAPhBp2ZcWM3xQ to 124pXdLYTZtAQ95gHdL43fTofaS5bHqAFi? Or is it just 145 shares? Thanks.

Best regards,

friedcat

DT has already sent a response to FC explaining that the PT and responsibilities are transferring over to me.

Again I place the reminder that until the share count issue is resolved, there will be no transfers.

-Ukyo

[gravito]

Except that the asset is not dead, and as of right now some people would have to be shorted shares because there is a mess that we are in the process of cleaning up.

I think btct.co does solve this quite well. One transfer per month is free , everything else requires a fee to be paid (I think this limits most arb trading). Why not make that fee a small percentage of the to be transferred value (based on the current current market price the moment the transfer is requested). You could even share that fee with friedcat to compensate him for his troubles.
On a personal note: I would like to see the option to transfer to other PTs directly. This makes things so much easier if you've chosen one PT and want all your shares to be in one place. (all exchanges have advantages/disadvantages to them).

One more thing:
Can you please clarify your position of the share transfer out of your PT as soon as possible (required shares [if any, I hope you adopt the transfer-rules of the other PTs], fees fur multiple transfers, whether or not transfer to other PTs will be possible or not).

Thank you for your effort.

Hmm,  I don't thing charging a fee alleviates the issue of the work for FC. Even if its one transfer per month, people will just make additional accounts to transfer to to get around it.

I have had discussions with Burnside about direct PT transfers already. While we would both like to do it, it does cause an issue of issuing shares that the PT's fund's wont get paid for, along with other issues like if either side somehow 'generated' shares and sent the extra shares to the other PT which sells into the market unbacked. There are a lot of issues with this.

As for clarifying the position, that's the point of the discussion.
I have had several pm's from people with suggestions. Apparently some people do not want to share their opinions in public and cause a flame war. Which is fine by me. If you have a suggestion feel free to PM me.

There will always be a way to circumvent the precautions taken by you or any other PT-operator to prohibit arb-trading. Maybe it's a good idea to get all PT-operators to agree to the same terms.
I for one think this discussion (at least for your PT) should be held in public. After all you (as the current PT-operator) need to restore peoples trust in your PT, due to the fact that the asset-contract has been violated several times now. That's by the way the main reason why I want my shares to be moved as I did not agree/sign up for the mess this PT is currently in (no offense).
Furthermore I'm unsure how you plan to modify the PT-contract as this would affect all current participants. In btct.co you would have to cast a vote...not sure if that's even possible on bitfunder.

BTW: Your activity in this thread is a good start to regain peoples trust

[Ukyo]

There will always be a way to circumvent the precautions taken by you or any other PT-operator to prohibit arb-trading. Maybe it's a good idea to get all PT-operators to agree to the same terms.
I for one think this discussion (at least for your PT) should be held in public. After all you (as the current PT-operator) need to restore peoples trust in your PT, due to the fact that the asset-contract has been violated several times now. That's by the way the main reason why I want my shares to be moved as I did not agree/sign up for the mess this PT is currently in (no offense).
Furthermore I'm unsure how you plan to modify the PT-contract as this would affect all current participants. In btct.co you would have to cast a vote...not sure if that's even possible on bitfunder.

BTW: Your activity in this thread is a good start to regain peoples trust

Hehe thanks,

My original intentions were to simply take over the asset, and maintain it as is.
I would prefer to not change anything on anyone.

Since I have seen the transfers list and the obvious abuses (in my opinion) I feel like the abuse is too much.
So I have been pondering how to handle this if at all.

[lophie]

Hi Ukyo, I want to transfer my shares to direct shares. I don't mind the wait. Please take your time solving the issues. I just wanted to know how to submit a share withdrawal request. You know. Something you would recognize and honour and "add to the queue". thnx

[Vezunchik]

Well, there was respond from you at all for last days/weeks. I thought that several messages may attract your attention.
You are so hard working just to send message to friedcat "pls. send xx shares from wallet1 to wallet2 as withdraw request from NNN".

Also I am going to open thread in "Scam Accusations" part. I think Ukyo is not going to return our shares at all.

PM's

Please complete my withdraw request. This delay is unacceptable!

Please complete my withdraw request. This delay is unacceptable!

Please complete my withdraw request. This delay is unacceptable!

Please complete my withdraw request. This delay is unacceptable!

Please complete my request.

+ at least 3 more.

Congratulations, you are the first person I have ever put on ignore.
This was due to constantly spamming me.

While I have control over the email address, I do not have control over the shares as they have not been confirmed to be moved to the new PT bitcoin address.
Apparently Friedcat somehow is not 100% sure what is going on and we are working to resolve this.

Hi FC,

I can confirm that I am not in control of the g.asicminer.pt@gmail.com email address.
I did not see an obvious email address for you there.

[8/31/2013 8:10:35 AM] Ludvig: Addresses to be transfered from are the following
[8/31/2013 8:10:39 AM] Ludvig: 1Ep3QFm5uqfoqPMG4HKq6yauMhdtyQTAsG

...

[8/31/2013 8:10:50 AM] Ludvig: give FC that info and your new Bitcoin address
[8/31/2013 8:10:53 AM] Ludvig: CC me so I can confirm


Please transfer to the following address:
124pXdLYTZtAQ95gHdL43fTofaS5bHqAFi

Thank You,
Ukyo / Jon

Hi Ukyo and DeaDTerra,

Since we have no idea of what's happening. Would you please explain it to us? Do you need us to transfer all shares from both 1Ep3QFm5uqfoqPMG4HKq6yauMhdtyQTAsG and 19mvuvS2VgCWDtfGpsLnJAPhBp2ZcWM3xQ to 124pXdLYTZtAQ95gHdL43fTofaS5bHqAFi? Or is it just 145 shares? Thanks.

Best regards,

friedcat

DT has already sent a response to FC explaining that the PT and responsibilities are transferring over to me.

Again I place the reminder that until the share count issue is resolved, there will be no transfers.

-Ukyo

[Ukyo]

Well, there was respond from you at all for last days/weeks. I thought that several messages may attract your attention.

And he responded by saying he ignored you.
Great customer service!
And fuck it's not like 226 shares is something negligible. Are smaller fish treated even worse?
Well DeaDTerra is likely the one to blame the most, as he decided to leave his PTs in the dust to purse his new scam.

Still, another reason why I stay away from BitFunder (still haven't got a response on my report of the WeExchange bugs/likely security issues, but it's too late to convince me otherwise).

Are you going to do something with my request? You are looking like scumer!
I really regret that my shares appeared into your hands.

Please complete my request.

Please complete my request.

Please complete my request.

Yes, it had been explained to him over and over again that I could not comply with his request.
Again, to this point in time, I do not have the ability to transfer shares.
I have access to an email account, that is the extent of my access.
I have explained over and over to him that I do not have the powers that be to complete his request yet he continued to spam me.
So he was ignored.

I am still waiting for an update.

[gravito]

@Ukyo

....well it seems like the shares have been moved to your account....at least according to address you provided to us! Over 13.4k shares assigned to this address http://blockchain.info/de/address/124pXdLYTZtAQ95gHdL43fTofaS5bHqAFi. Doesn't that mean you can now process the withdrawal requests (I got one too you know...cough cough)?  

[Ukyo]

@Ukyo

....well it seems like the shares have been moved to your account....at least according to address you provided to us! Over 13.4k shares assigned to this address http://blockchain.info/de/address/124pXdLYTZtAQ95gHdL43fTofaS5bHqAFi. Doesn't that mean you can now process the withdrawal requests (I got one too you know...cough cough)?  

Well apparently FC made things happen

I can confirm the unconfirmed btc transaction showing up.

I will get the PT accounts setup so the funds can be distributed asap.

Now I just need to try to work on the audit and get that wrapped up by this weekend and find out what happened where.

Thanks for letting me know!

[Ukyo]

Divs are finally confirmed from FC to the secured separate wallet and on their way to BitFunder for distribution.

-Ukyo

[Ukyo]

Divs have been paid out.

Total: 197.97703008
Per Share: 0.01404192

I will try to get it faster next week.

-Ukyo

[puck2]

Divs have been paid out.

Total: 197.97703008
Per Share: 0.01404192

I will try to get it faster next week.

-Ukyo

Thanks for the speedy divs . What an improvement!

[Whtwabbit]

Divs have been paid out.

Total: 197.97703008
Per Share: 0.01404192

I will try to get it faster next week.

-Ukyo

Thanks for the speedy divs . What an improvement!

Thanks for your effort

[lophie]

So can we withdraw to direct shares? What is the procedure. Guys repeat the question please apparently Ukyo pt me on the ignore list for some reason he NEVER replies to me :S.