Stateless societies and bitcoin

[BADecker]

It's difficult to imagine a stateless society, but there are plenty of stateless people. Guys like me who have left their native country, with no plan to go back, and no desire to become a citizen in any other place. BTC is made for us.

Great words! I wish I can be a stateless person one time. That's giving you a very good feeling of freedom I guess.

Although most of us are not stateless people at least we have stateless money.  )

Well, what is a state?

If you go to the border between two States of the USA, often you can't tell where the border is. For example, on the border between Arizona and New Mexico, there are places where the only thing that defines the border is a fence. And sometimes it isn't a very good fence. The land looks exactly the same on both sides of the fence.

The point is, what is a state/State, since there often seems to be no difference between states? Isn't a "state" really a state of mind? In the case of the border between Arizona and New Mexico, the land has been measured through surveying methods, the measurements have been written down, and the government keeps written record of the measurements.

The reason why governments write everything down is, people would forget, and the "states" would dissolve after a while. With things written down, people can go to the written records, and remind themselves of what their "state" of mind is supposed to be.

A second point is, none of us has memorized everything written in a particular government. This means that each person really has a "state" that is different from the state of everyone else. However, even if there were a bunch of people who had memorized all the writings of the State that they live in, no two of them would have exactly the same thinking about any of it. We all live in different "states."

We are all ignorant liars. Why? We say that we live in a certain State, when what is really happening is that there are multitudes of states (as many states as there are individual people) that often have the same name. For example. Every last person who says he lives in the State of Arizona has a different state of mind about it than everyone else who says that he lives in the State of Arizona.

We all really need to think things out before we ask or answer questions like this.

[countryfree]

It's difficult to imagine a stateless society, but there are plenty of stateless people. Guys like me who have left their native country, with no plan to go back, and no desire to become a citizen in any other place. BTC is made for us.

I see you say this and I always wonder what the plan is for old age?
Not bashing the life style just curious how that will work out in the long run.

You just need to save money for retirement. That's what most people do except in communist countries. I guess I'll travel a bit less, but I'm addicted to it. I get bored when I'm staying more than a month in the same place.

[BADecker]

It's difficult to imagine a stateless society, but there are plenty of stateless people. Guys like me who have left their native country, with no plan to go back, and no desire to become a citizen in any other place. BTC is made for us.

I see you say this and I always wonder what the plan is for old age?
Not bashing the life style just curious how that will work out in the long run.

You just need to save money for retirement. That's what most people do except in communist countries. I guess I'll travel a bit less, but I'm addicted to it. I get bored when I'm staying more than a month in the same place.

But you would be smart to save your money in the form of fertile land that has its own source of good water. Other than a few thousand in cash, cash savings are ridiculous.

[Cybertron00]

Well for me bitcoin is not made for stateless societies. It is made so that people can use it and transfer money easily without wires or meetups needed. It is made to make paying easy  for everyone.

[countryfree]

It's difficult to imagine a stateless society, but there are plenty of stateless people. Guys like me who have left their native country, with no plan to go back, and no desire to become a citizen in any other place. BTC is made for us.

I see you say this and I always wonder what the plan is for old age?
Not bashing the life style just curious how that will work out in the long run.

You just need to save money for retirement. That's what most people do except in communist countries. I guess I'll travel a bit less, but I'm addicted to it. I get bored when I'm staying more than a month in the same place.

But you would be smart to save your money in the form of fertile land that has its own source of good water. Other than a few thousand in cash, cash savings are ridiculous.

I do. Well, without a free source of good water. Sadly, it's getting rarer and rarer to find clean water, and it most countries, it's also getting illegal to pump your own water. I know a few people who do but they hide, and they don't drink it.

[Evildrum]

You should start a blog countryfree,I would be interested to see the issues you struggle with day to day.
Its funny last night I did a search for living off the grid,from time to time I romanticize trying it.
Lot more people doing this then I was expecting and always presumed people ended up in Asia or South America to extend their money flow but seems to be a lot of people doing it just outside of towns.

Have a cabin on a lake and I often think about getting away for a winter even though it would be damned cold,just to refocus on whats important.

[StoreBit]

society without state is not possible. similarly bitcoin also need a recognition. it will be very nice if the states legalize the bitcion. then we can say that it will really become a universal currency.

[Evildrum]

society without state is not possible. similarly bitcoin also need a recognition. it will be very nice if the states legalize the bitcion. then we can say that it will really become a universal currency.

It already is a universal currency,does not need to be regulated and bogged down in governmental scrutiny.
The last thing bitcoin needs is the five,nine or thirteen eyes on it.
This thinking always baffles me and I would like to know why it is such a common thinking to stifle bitcoin in such a way!

[AlgoSwan]

Its good to know someone in this forum like to read Bill Buppert. I thought that Bitcointalk invaded by statists or fake libertarians.

[countryfree]

You should start a blog countryfree,I would be interested to see the issues you struggle with day to day.
Its funny last night I did a search for living off the grid,from time to time I romanticize trying it.
Lot more people doing this then I was expecting and always presumed people ended up in Asia or South America to extend their money flow but seems to be a lot of people doing it just outside of towns.

Have a cabin on a lake and I often think about getting away for a winter even though it would be damned cold,just to refocus on whats important.

I don't struggle!
I've thought many times about selling some knowledge I have that few people possess, but it certainly won't be a blog where everything would be free to read.

[BADecker]

You should start a blog countryfree,I would be interested to see the issues you struggle with day to day.
Its funny last night I did a search for living off the grid,from time to time I romanticize trying it.
Lot more people doing this then I was expecting and always presumed people ended up in Asia or South America to extend their money flow but seems to be a lot of people doing it just outside of towns.

Have a cabin on a lake and I often think about getting away for a winter even though it would be damned cold,just to refocus on whats important.

I don't struggle!
I've thought many times about selling some knowledge I have that few people possess, but it certainly won't be a blog where everything would be free to read.

Yes, but. You could use the blog to sell the ideas without giving out any of the juicy info, and then let the people pay for the stuff.

[Evildrum]

Blogs are the way a lot of people get a business going,take that 4 hour work week guy and his books. He used his blog as a launching pad and never looked back. Its pretty similar if you have a whole wack of tricks to navigate on the cheap through Europe.
Think of all the kids wanting to do Europe as their first vacation trip,they would definitely be looking into those concepts.

But you seem kind of guarded about it and I did not mean to poke you or provoke you in any way,was just curious in another human being.
Understand the need to protect yourself being a little more glaring being without a country.

[AlgoSwan]

You should start a blog countryfree,I would be interested to see the issues you struggle with day to day.
Its funny last night I did a search for living off the grid,from time to time I romanticize trying it.
Lot more people doing this then I was expecting and always presumed people ended up in Asia or South America to extend their money flow but seems to be a lot of people doing it just outside of towns.

Have a cabin on a lake and I often think about getting away for a winter even though it would be damned cold,just to refocus on whats important.

I don't struggle!
I've thought many times about selling some knowledge I have that few people possess, but it certainly won't be a blog where everything would be free to read.

Selling some knowledge.... But how?

[tetra]

I guess Bitcoin is not suitable for that. It's just pseudonymus so given that current nation states are overthrown and BTC exists as the main store of value everyone with a computer could determine everyones ownings...

[countryfree]

Blogs are the way a lot of people get a business going,take that 4 hour work week guy and his books. He used his blog as a launching pad and never looked back. Its pretty similar if you have a whole wack of tricks to navigate on the cheap through Europe.
Think of all the kids wanting to do Europe as their first vacation trip,they would definitely be looking into those concepts.

Well, sorry, I don't know much tricks about to travel on a budget, and I doubt any youngster would be interested in what I know.

Selling some knowledge.... But how?

That's what consultants are doing, and I've done it many times, in other fields from what we're talking here, though. I could write a guide about how and where to invest in real estate in Europe. I've already started that project actually. It's currently on hold, because of other priorities, but I hope to complete it this summer. Anyone interested?

[AlgoSwan]

Selling some knowledge.... But how?

That's what consultants are doing, and I've done it many times, in other fields from what we're talking here, though. I could write a guide about how and where to invest in real estate in Europe. I've already started that project actually. It's currently on hold, because of other priorities, but I hope to complete it this summer. Anyone interested?

But how do you invest in real estate in Europe without a citizenship of a country?

[BADecker]

Selling some knowledge.... But how?

That's what consultants are doing, and I've done it many times, in other fields from what we're talking here, though. I could write a guide about how and where to invest in real estate in Europe. I've already started that project actually. It's currently on hold, because of other priorities, but I hope to complete it this summer. Anyone interested?

But how do you invest in real estate in Europe without a citizenship of a country?

Use a corporation or a trust from that country. For more info, visit http://www.liveandinvestoverseas.com/ and https://internationalliving.com/.

[countryfree]

Selling some knowledge.... But how?

That's what consultants are doing, and I've done it many times, in other fields from what we're talking here, though. I could write a guide about how and where to invest in real estate in Europe. I've already started that project actually. It's currently on hold, because of other priorities, but I hope to complete it this summer. Anyone interested?

But how do you invest in real estate in Europe without a citizenship of a country?

Use a corporation or a trust from that country. For more info, visit http://www.liveandinvestoverseas.com/ and https://internationalliving.com/.

A corporation? A trust? That cost thousands to set up, and hundreds each year to keep it going. It's much cheaper to buy as an individual. You need a passport, but most people have one, me included. I hate to say it, but a passport is a must-have in this world. You can't travel without one. Fortunately, if having one means you're a citizen, you're not required to act like one, and that's what I do.

[BADecker]

Selling some knowledge.... But how?

That's what consultants are doing, and I've done it many times, in other fields from what we're talking here, though. I could write a guide about how and where to invest in real estate in Europe. I've already started that project actually. It's currently on hold, because of other priorities, but I hope to complete it this summer. Anyone interested?

But how do you invest in real estate in Europe without a citizenship of a country?

Use a corporation or a trust from that country. For more info, visit http://www.liveandinvestoverseas.com/ and https://internationalliving.com/.

A corporation? A trust? That cost thousands to set up, and hundreds each year to keep it going. It's much cheaper to buy as an individual. You need a passport, but most people have one, me included. I hate to say it, but a passport is a must-have in this world. You can't travel without one. Fortunately, if having one means you're a citizen, you're not required to act like one, and that's what I do.

However, there are people set up in many countries who will do it for you for a much smaller fee. Ever heard of the Panama Papers?

[AlgoSwan]

Selling some knowledge.... But how?

That's what consultants are doing, and I've done it many times, in other fields from what we're talking here, though. I could write a guide about how and where to invest in real estate in Europe. I've already started that project actually. It's currently on hold, because of other priorities, but I hope to complete it this summer. Anyone interested?

But how do you invest in real estate in Europe without a citizenship of a country?

Use a corporation or a trust from that country. For more info, visit http://www.liveandinvestoverseas.com/ and https://internationalliving.com/.

A corporation? A trust? That cost thousands to set up, and hundreds each year to keep it going. It's much cheaper to buy as an individual. You need a passport, but most people have one, me included. I hate to say it, but a passport is a must-have in this world. You can't travel without one. Fortunately, if having one means you're a citizen, you're not required to act like one, and that's what I do.

I thought you are a stateless person as Stateless ex-American Mike Gogulski currently living in Slovakia. Now I realize you are not. You have a citizenship from some country and also have a passport. And with this passport you can invest real estate in Europe. But in this thread we are talking about stateless people and usage of BTC as a stateless person like Mike Gogulski and some 10k other people. So you are not fitting in this category. But anyway thanks for your input and we are keen to listen your own experiences on the field of profitable real estate investment in the European region in another thread, maybe you can start one of it.