Bitcoin Forum
January 19, 2019, 01:19:16 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.17.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Generate own random numbers then incorporate into bitaddress.org script (.1 btc)  (Read 3014 times)
bb113
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 07, 2013, 09:25:33 PM
 #1

I want to generate some addresses using a gieger counter as a random number generator. Lets say I will just manually write down the number of clicks I hear over a certain period of time.

This task has 3 parts (easy I think if you know javascript):

1) Explain where in this script does it describe the random number generation and how it works.

https://github.com/pointbiz/bitaddress.org/blob/master/bitaddress.org.html

2) Modify the script so that I can use my own random number

3) Tell me how long I would need to count clicks for if there was an average of 1 per second and explain the logic behind that.

OR

4) Convince me this is idea won't work.

1547860756
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1547860756

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1547860756
Reply with quote  #2

1547860756
Report to moderator
1547860756
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1547860756

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1547860756
Reply with quote  #2

1547860756
Report to moderator
1547860756
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1547860756

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1547860756
Reply with quote  #2

1547860756
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1547860756
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1547860756

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1547860756
Reply with quote  #2

1547860756
Report to moderator
Ditto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 330
Merit: 250


View Profile
March 08, 2013, 02:35:46 AM
 #2

Patch the window.SecureRandom function, or the ArcFour PRNG inside it.
deepceleron
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
March 08, 2013, 10:37:41 AM
 #3

Dude, random.org. Also, this idea won't work. Why? Because Geiger counters measure radiation, and the amount of radiation around you (on any significant, detectable level) is probably strongly non-random.

-1

A Geiger counter measures radioactive decay. Radioactivity is the process whereby unstable atomic nuclei release energetic subatomic particles. Radioactivity is a random process, meaning that it is physically impossible to predict whether or not a given atomic nucleus will decay and emit radiation at any given moment. The amount of it doesn't change the randomness of it.

dude, http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/
bb113
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 08, 2013, 03:34:06 PM
 #4

Patch the window.SecureRandom function, or the ArcFour PRNG inside it.

Thank you, but I am not familiar with javascript so I don't know how to do that.

Dude, random.org. Also, this idea won't work. Why? Because Geiger counters measure radiation, and the amount of radiation around you (on any significant, detectable level) is probably strongly non-random.

-1

A Geiger counter measures radioactive decay. Radioactivity is the process whereby unstable atomic nuclei release energetic subatomic particles. Radioactivity is a random process, meaning that it is physically impossible to predict whether or not a given atomic nucleus will decay and emit radiation at any given moment. The amount of it doesn't change the randomness of it.

dude, http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/



I'll use a smoke detector as an alpha particle source


Scrat Acorns
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 293
Merit: 250



View Profile
March 09, 2013, 11:51:18 AM
 #5

You can extract unbiased output from biased input (Von Neumann whitening is one such technique), but creating a hardware RNG by yourself is a bad idea.

If you really really want to use your geiger counter then your best bet is to feed /dev/random with entropy from the counter and use it's output.
Ditto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 330
Merit: 250


View Profile
March 09, 2013, 01:24:49 PM
 #6

Also note that javascript in the browser can't access hardware (so it won't work with a geiger counter). You might be able to do it using node.js and making it read from a serial port or something similar, but I still don't think anyone will do that for 0.1BTC

If this convinces you that this idea won't work, my address is 1Pqh1kXjMVa8KvSJFg9DoUoKz9G1kNiYvo
bb113
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 09, 2013, 07:40:44 PM
 #7

I need to do a bit more reading on RNGs it looks like. 0.01 btc to all who posted here. Scrat acorns if you want it post an address.
Scrat Acorns
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 293
Merit: 250



View Profile
March 11, 2013, 08:35:44 PM
 #8

PS: I know a good PRNG is Mersenne Twister, maybe you could look into seeding that with your clicks.

No, just no. Mersenne Twister is a terrible RNG for cryptographic purposes. You can actually jump to an arbitrary position in the stream given enough bits to calculate the state: http://www.math.sci.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/~m-mat/MT/JUMP/index.html
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1005


Gerald Davis


View Profile
March 11, 2013, 08:40:25 PM
 #9

patch it with this

nimda
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1000


0xFB0D8D1534241423


View Profile
March 11, 2013, 10:44:49 PM
 #10

I want to generate some addresses using a gieger counter as a random number generator. Lets say I will just manually write down the number of clicks I hear over a certain period of time.

This task has 3 parts (easy I think if you know javascript):

1) Explain where in this script does it describe the random number generation and how it works.

https://github.com/pointbiz/bitaddress.org/blob/master/bitaddress.org.html
Hit ctrl+f, type in ArcFour. Here's the Wiki on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC4#The_pseudo-random_generation_algorithm_.28PRGA.29
It goes around modulo-adding values together, then using the sum as an array key to come up with a new value to modulo-add. It does this a lot.


Quote
3) Tell me how long I would need to count clicks for if there was an average of 1 per second and explain the logic behind that.
Depends on how regular the clicks are; i.e. how much variation there is. If the clicks appear 1s apart +- 0.01s with 99% probability, then it's extremely likely that you'll get 3 clicks if you count for 3.5 seconds. You now have very little entropy. However, if it's equally likely that you'll get 1 click or 2 in a 1.5 second period, then you're garnering at least 1 bit of entropy per 1.5s. You'll want as many bits as the algorithm allows.

Quote
OR
2) Modify the script so that I can use my own random number
4) Convince me this is idea won't work.
It won't work because I doubt someone will modify the script for you for such a small amount of money. You're better off asking for someone to do it for you for free, or finding someone interested in it. That said, it's probably a simple matter of replacing the mouse-entropy with user-input.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2366
Merit: 1009


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
March 11, 2013, 10:52:31 PM
 #11

Step one: Put optical mouse laser over analog meter
Step two: Wave geiger wand over/away from radioactive source randomly

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
pointbiz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 433
Merit: 252

1ninja


View Profile
April 01, 2013, 10:35:07 PM
 #12

Today you can generate your own random number using any method and make sure the number is 256 bit and then convert it to hex and use the wallet details tab to get your bitcoin address.

Does that cover your use case?

Coder of: https://www.bitaddress.org      Thread
Open Source JavaScript Client-Side Bitcoin Wallet Generator
Donations: 1NiNja1bUmhSoTXozBRBEtR8LeF9TGbZBN   PGP
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Bitcointalk.org is not available or authorized for sale. Do not believe any fake listings.
Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!