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Question: Is Luke-Jr an enemy of Bitcoin ? [poll]
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I don't know

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Author Topic: Is one of the devs (Luke-Jr) an enemy of Bitcoin ?  (Read 5300 times)
anarchy
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March 10, 2013, 02:54:49 PM
 #21

Luke-jr: Would you ever change any of the core principles of bitcoin:

1) The limited supply
2) The decentralised nature

A yes or no will do, there are no inbetweens to take on that.
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kerogre256
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March 10, 2013, 02:55:29 PM
 #22

I thought Luke-Jr being a religious authoritarian statist zealot was old news?
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March 10, 2013, 02:58:39 PM
 #23

You are digging way too deep.  You sound like an intelligent guy and your time is more valuable doing other things.  Just because you are not Libitarian does not mean you don't like Bitcoin and cannot use it.  You said to read the whole thing, well sorry I have better things to do...  

I realize i went slighly overboard with this poll, but i guess even if 99% people say "No", it will at least raise awarness of the "social punishment vs mathematical algorithms" problem.

And i still will consider Luke-Jr an enemy of Bitcoin.

If it's because of what he said in the discussion you quoted then you have no clue as to the actual position bitcoin takes in society.
Bitcoin is a balancing force to the rigidness of the current monetary systems.
But without the deep roots of conventional economy bitcoin becomes worthless.
This is because globally stuff like food, energy and technology are the product of these conventional economies.

So in reality the best thing is to have both and i don't understand why Luke-Jr would be an enemy of bitcoin because he doesn't see bitcoin in the same extreme way that you seem to.
The notion of "If you're not with us you're against us." has a pretty sick history.
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March 10, 2013, 03:00:12 PM
 #24

hint: people who have other opinions than you are not automatic your enemy.

Wrong. Not MY enemy. *Bitcoin's enemy*.

bitcoin is just a currency.
its only enemies are people with big pockets full of fiat.

its a p2p currency which means: everybody can do as he wants to (this includes sdice AND luke-jr not letting their transactions in his blocks).

so please.. just calm down a little.
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March 10, 2013, 03:08:12 PM
 #25

hint: people who have other opinions than you are not automatic your enemy.

Wrong. Not MY enemy. *Bitcoin's enemy*.

bitcoin is just a currency.
its only enemies are people with big pockets full of fiat.

its a p2p currency which means: everybody can do as he wants to (this includes sdice AND luke-jr not letting their transactions in his blocks).

so please.. just calm down a little.

See, these are the little mistakes that screw things up.

This should be 'power' instead of 'fiat'.
And so once bitcoin becomes big enough we will have exactly the same problems that all currencies have. And people will be screaming for regulations etc.

All this naive libertanian fluff is just an indicator that bitcoin is not making a serious dent.

Bitcoin certainly has some pro's but it also has flaws that will require new laws to make it work on any large scale.
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March 10, 2013, 03:15:24 PM
 #26

hint: people who have other opinions than you are not automatic your enemy.

Wrong. Not MY enemy. *Bitcoin's enemy*.

bitcoin is just a currency.
its only enemies are people with big pockets full of fiat.

its a p2p currency which means: everybody can do as he wants to (this includes sdice AND luke-jr not letting their transactions in his blocks).

so please.. just calm down a little.

See, these are the little mistakes that screw things up.

This should be 'power' instead of 'fiat'.
And so once bitcoin becomes big enough we will have exactly the same problems that all currencies have. And people will be screaming for regulations etc.

All this naive libertanian fluff is just an indicator that bitcoin is not making a serious dent.

Bitcoin certainly has some pro's but it also has flaws that will require new laws to make it work on any large scale.


one thing i really love about bitcoin is, that laws just wont work.
as long as the protocol stays the same (or only has minor modifications) i am able to start a mining operation and let my transactions get processed.

if that ever changes you're right. but then there wont be any difference between bitcoin and fiat anymore.
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March 10, 2013, 03:19:15 PM
 #27

I don't really consider him an enemy of Bitcoin, although he really seems self-centered about his own beliefs sometimes.

I got caught into an edit war on Bitcoin Wiki over the SatoshiDice article when I tried to make the SatoshiDice article more neutral by removing all straight "SatoshiDice is a DDoS attack" accusations, which weren't even backed by any references. Eventually he told me he would only allow my edits to stay if I specifically told in the article that SatoshiDice is a DDoS attack. Looking at his previous contributions in the wiki ( 1, 2, 3 ), it wasn't the first time his "facts" were met by criticism.

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March 10, 2013, 03:25:24 PM
 #28

I don't really consider him an enemy of Bitcoin, although he really seems self-centered about his own beliefs sometimes.

I got caught into an edit war on Bitcoin Wiki over the SatoshiDice article when I tried to make the SatoshiDice article more neutral by removing all straight "SatoshiDice is a DDoS attack" accusations, which weren't even backed by any references. Eventually he told me he would only allow my edits to stay if I specifically told in the article that SatoshiDice is a DDoS attack. Looking at his previous contributions in the wiki ( 1, 2, 3 ), it wasn't the first time his "facts" were met by criticism.

With such a foolish behavior, he is doing harm to Bitcoin.
This is the reason i think he is an enemy of BTC.

Actually this so good I am gonna re-paste it into the top post.

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March 10, 2013, 03:33:37 PM
 #29

If we limit only libertarians to Bitcoin then we will not get very far.

Following Ron Paul, he brought in many liberals and others who were against the Federal Reserve because they understood how bad the Fed actually is and what they are doing.

Some people may believe that Bitcoin will make government programs more efficient so that we can have more government. Who knows.

While libertarians can use Bitcoin as a tool to free ourselves from government control. It can also be used as a tool by many other ideological beliefs.

Kim Jung Un could adopt Bitcoin for North Korea tomorrow and revel in dictatorial power as NK's GDP skyrockets and he uses the power to oppress his people even more and build a buttload of nukes.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
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March 10, 2013, 04:11:57 PM
 #30


if that ever changes you're right. but then there wont be any difference between bitcoin and fiat anymore.

Nah, there will be plenty pro's for bitcoin in that situation. For one, you cannot print more bitcoins.
So i think Luke-Jr is right about bitcoins position in the real world.
The way i see it, even IF bitcoin fails to be better than fiat on most accounts it is still a pretty good currency for the internet.
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March 10, 2013, 04:17:13 PM
 #31

I don't really consider him an enemy of Bitcoin, although he really seems self-centered about his own beliefs sometimes.

I got caught into an edit war on Bitcoin Wiki over the SatoshiDice article when I tried to make the SatoshiDice article more neutral by removing all straight "SatoshiDice is a DDoS attack" accusations, which weren't even backed by any references. Eventually he told me he would only allow my edits to stay if I specifically told in the article that SatoshiDice is a DDoS attack. Looking at his previous contributions in the wiki ( 1, 2, 3 ), it wasn't the first time his "facts" were met by criticism.

I'm not sure you see his point.
It is technically correct to call it a DDoS attack.
 Grin
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March 10, 2013, 04:28:26 PM
 #32

this thread is ridiculous.
op should admit that other poeple having other viewpoint are not always enemys.
This make me think that op must have some troubles to figure out the diference between a democracy and a battlefield...

The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions

Satoshi Nakamoto : https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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March 10, 2013, 04:37:06 PM
 #33

this thread is ridiculous.
op should admit that other poeple having other viewpoint are not always enemys.
This make me think that op must have some troubles to figure out the diference between a democracy and a battlefield...

Democracy is a battlefield. It's the majority oppressing me, robbing me and ultimately threatening to kill me if I don't do what they say. Just because I constantly tactically retreat does not mean I'm not in a fight.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

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March 10, 2013, 04:41:23 PM
 #34

Luke-Jr might not share the ideals of Bitcoin spirit but he is good at coding. Even if Luke-Jr is wrong socially, his code adheres to laws of math and computing, so he cannot break these laws easily without anyone noticing. Double check his commits and Bitcoin are safe for now.

The OP is right in most accounts. I don't agree with most of libertarian views, but I'm hardcore unregulated internet freedom and anti-censorship activist. So making Bitcoin into regulated currency is completely unacceptable.

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March 10, 2013, 05:08:10 PM
 #35

this thread is ridiculous.
op should admit that other poeple having other viewpoint are not always enemys.

Luke may not realize this yet, but ideologically he is an enemy of Bitcoin.
What he believes in stands in direct opposition to the ideals which created Bitcoin.

Maybe he will realize this some time in the future and start fighting Bitcoin - you never know.

This make me think that op must have some troubles to figure out the diference between a democracy and a battlefield...

As hazek already pointed out, democracy is a battlefield of a sort.

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March 10, 2013, 05:24:10 PM
 #36

You point out using 'neutral' comments in the wiki with reference to SD but then use "(Luke-Jr) an enemy of Bitcoin".

Luke's opinion differs from others but is in alignment with others too.

Just because his view is different doesn't make him an 'enemy'. I disagree with him on this matter but the ultimate ends between he and I are similar. Taking two roads that lead to the same destination doesn't make someone an enemy. In fact, 'enemy' is a pretty strong word. On that should rarely be used.

My bigger concern is the consolidation of power. We even have a 'members only' club with seats on boards and everything. NYSE v. 2.0 "Settle accounts at the end of the week Thurman" Not that it is bad to have such but with consolidation of power comes corruption. I'd prefer the -devs stayed neutral to such things but meh... Spitting in the wind tends and all.

A community isn't composed of people that all think alike, it's composed of people that think differently but co-exist together peacefully to promote the community.


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hazek
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March 10, 2013, 05:30:39 PM
 #37

Personally I don't care about Luke as far as his beliefs go. As long as people check his work, and I have no doubt all dev's work is checked not just Luke's, I don't mind what he wants if he leaves me alone.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

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March 10, 2013, 06:57:04 PM
 #38

Personally I don't care about Luke as far as his beliefs go. As long as people check his work, and I have no doubt all dev's work is checked not just Luke's, I don't mind what he wants if he leaves me alone.

Maybe all the developers should operate under a pseudonym and submit things from behind TOR, so that they're all treated equally?

Actually, this is what I2P developers already do. So it is possible for sure.

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March 10, 2013, 07:03:23 PM
 #39

Well, if the guy likes people telling him what to do and how to act, let him be.  As long as he doesn't turn BTC into fiat, his work can only help Bitcoin.

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March 10, 2013, 07:05:08 PM
 #40

Should you double-check his commits in the source ?


We should double-check everyone's commits. Even Satoshi's.

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