ETH hardfork incoming.

[shyliar]

If the majority of the miners accept the bribe and do not soft fork, the Ethereum is destroyed. The ethereum they get is worthless.

Miners not soft forking is not an indication that they accept the bribe. In some cases the miner simply objects to the purpose and intent of the fork.

[iamnotback]

No forks!

Charles, I don't think you sufficiently emphasized Bruce Fenton's points. You provided a link that seems lost in a sea of the mix of historical storytelling with a smidgen of your self-aggrandizing verbiage, so I doubt most readers even read what Bruce wrote.

Crypto is Not Politics

I keep reading arguments about how The Will of The People should decide. And how this is the only fair and equitable way. And I am here to say this is 100% retarded bullshit and any one who repeats it (and nonchalantly dismisses this!), is retarded.

What distinguishes the intention of Satoshi's block chain invention from the world we had before it, is that it eliminates politics. The technical reason is because due to the Nash equilibrium, then no one (not even mining nodes) have any fucking control.

If we destroy the Nash equilibrium with a 51% attack (aka fork) by not honoring the decentralized protocol, then we fall into a no-man's land of ambiguous interpretation and the brutality of the majority.

It is as simple as that. Either we choose to honor the code and protocol, or we go back to the depressing clusterfucked world we have before Satoshi.

Now the other problem is that BitCON is also becoming centralized because of economies-of-scale in mining. We haven't yet perfected Satoshi's invention. But that should not deter us from our ideals.

If you support forks, you violate everything Satoshi tried to do for the world.

No forks! No Blockstream forks either! Offer proof-of-burn if you want to propose new features on a new block chain, so that people are autonomous with their money.

And any arguments about empathy and intent in contract law are up against moral hazard which leads to the aforementioned clusterfuck of brutality. Don't reward retarded speculators for not doing due diligence and their derelict incapable developer idols, because they carry the mental affliction of those who want the clusterfucked world that existed prior to Satoshi's invention.

[EastSound]

No forks!

You should buy some graphics cards to build some miners and have a say in the coming fork. You have about 20 days to do that.

[iamnotback]

No forks!

You should buy some graphics cards to build some miners and have a say in the coming fork. You have about 20 days to do that.

That would dilute my capabilities. Others are better matched to that task. I am better matched to preparing a block chain that does everything Ethereum does but better, and which doesn't have a retarded culture.

Besides by miners voting, that means no matter the outcome, Ethereum is already broken. The Nash equilibrium is destroyed.

In fact, this is one of the flaws in Satoshi's design that I have a design fix for.

The miners should not have a vote! No one should have a vote. Politics and voting is what we intended to eliminate.

[Zosuda]

No forks!

You should buy some graphics cards to build some miners and have a say in the coming fork. You have about 20 days to do that.

That would dilute my capabilities. Others are better matched to that task. I am better matched to preparing a block chain that does everything Ethereum does but better, and which doesn't have a retarded culture.

Besides by miners voting, that means no matter the outcome, Ethereum is already broken. The Nash equilibrium is destroyed.

In fact, this is one of the flaws in Satoshi's design that I have a design fix for.

The miners should not have a vote! No one should have a vote. Politics and voting is what we intended to eliminate.

Are you and your friends going to build a new coins similar to Ethereum but better? Will that be PoW mining?

[iamnotback]

Are you and your friends going to build a new coins similar to Ethereum but better? Will that be PoW mining?

Let's not talk about vaporware. I just want to say that there is a flaw and we need to fix it. And these aren't hollow words.

[GenTarkin]

Im confused about this whole "ETH being forked" and all the controversy surrounding it.
In order for a successful fork to be pulled off by the devs, dont the miners have to majority agree to it for it to actually take place?
Isnt this still "whatever consensus rules?"
- OR -
Do the devs, single handedly have the power to enforce the fork w/o any sort of concensus?

If its the latter then, fuck ETH! Its a fucking scam and I cant support such a coin.
But, if its the former... well, isnt how all crypto works?

[leopard2]

BLAH BLAH

as if anyone here would not have supported a fork that would have returned the stolen Gox coins, for example

BTC would be 2000+ now without that; it was 1200 when Gox was destroyed

Now there is an opportunity to prevent a similar thing for ETH so just come to your senses  

Also I highly doubt that ETH willl fork again; everyone deserves a 2nd chance.  

[iamnotback]

It seems 20% of the miners in the ethpool.org do not agree with that. They do not think taking 4% etherum out of circulation is a good idea.
http://ethpool.org/stats/votes

The "attacker" is winning. That was much less than 20% when I looked it a few hours ago.

Nobody in the DAO will ever get their tokens back.

Checkmate.

The "attacker" (aka noble crypto baron) has gained another 15% of support, now at 35% who won't vote for the fork. The baron will win. It is an economic certainty. Money talks, BS walks.

This bullshit about Ethereum will die if The DAO holders lose their funds is FUD. Ethereum will die if you fork it. Don't make the mistake of investing with retarded crowds, as you'll end up bankrupt and retarded.

[AlphaSun]

If the "attacker" wins, the Ethereum will be dead. If there is soft fork but no hard fork, the Ethereum holder will win, and there is some mining for miners in the near future.

[shyliar]

Im confused about this whole "ETH being forked" and all the controversy surrounding it.
In order for a successful fork to be pulled off by the devs, dont the miners have to majority agree to it for it to actually take place?
Isnt this still "whatever consensus rules?"
- OR -
Do the devs, single handedly have the power to enforce the fork w/o any sort of concensus?

If its the latter then, fuck ETH! Its a fucking scam and I cant support such a coin.
But, if its the former... well, isnt how all crypto works?

I agree with what you wrote. In either case though the fork has to be first suggested by the developers (since they make the code changes). Then the question that needs to be asked is what are the criteria for these code changes? There are examples of other ETH being stolen previous to the DAO due to bad code and the developers never reacted (basically it was "sorry about your bad luck"). In the situation of the DAO the developers are heavily invested and suddenly theft due to bad code requires a fork.

The ethics are simply self interest of the developers. I'm all for self interest; but, the marketing apparatus is selling it as community driven. I think this upsets some people (which is understandable).

Repercussions need to be considered as well. Apparently the fix allows blacklisting of any ETH address in the future. This should worry anyone since once ETH becomes POS the stake holders and not miners will have unlimited control. Since the percentage of ETH mined is nothing in comparison to the percentage that was premined as a result a very small group will determine when a contract can be annulled.

That's my take on it.

Note: I have no intention of getting into a pissing match with the marketing group and as such won't respond to ignorance.

[Auponef]

The soft fork is to save the Ethereum itself. I do not want to see a thief steal 3.6 million coins and dump on the market.

[AlphaSun]

The soft fork is to save the Ethereum itself. I do not want to see a thief steal 3.6 million coins and dump on the market.

That could be right. But there still about 25% of the miners do not want to get back the funds from the thief.

[spartacusrex]

[BitUsher]

https://petertodd.org/2016/ethereum-dao-bailout-vote

[Cakalasia]

https://petertodd.org/2016/ethereum-dao-bailout-vote

He said "A Bailout Needs a Coin Vote". How do we do coin vote? I thought the miners determines the fork.

[BitUsher]

https://petertodd.org/2016/ethereum-dao-bailout-vote

He said "A Bailout Needs a Coin Vote". How do we do coin vote? I thought the miners determines the fork.

It is well documented how one can do a coinvote and there are already services that do this.
In bitcoin land we consider economic full nodes to ultimately be in control and not miners. Miners can be discarded if they betray the users quite quickly.

 It will be interesting to see what direction the Ethereum community decides but they are headed in a very dangerous direction.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

After the hard fork, will anyone continue to mine the old ETH chain for ideological reasons?

[AlphaSun]

After the hard fork, will anyone continue to mine the old ETH chain for ideological reasons?

Most miners will continue to mine if there is no other profitable coin to mine. Most miners invest to make profit.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

After the hard fork, will anyone continue to mine the old ETH chain for ideological reasons?

Most miners will continue to mine if there is no other profitable coin to mine. Most miners invest to make profit.

That's a bit cryptic. I think that's a 'no' for you?