End of Governments

[Jobe7]

Crypto digital currency as a way to bring down local governments?
Not saying tomorrow or anytime soon, thinking about the probability.


In their current incarnation, yep, definitely. As they rely on subterfuge and anonyinimity for its users (sound familiar?).

If (as is feasible) states and systems take on bitcoin (for tax purposes)
- People getting paid in bitcoin can avoid tax if they spend/keep their bitcoin in the bitcoin world, until the system adopts something along the lines of 'known wallet for initial wages, for tax purposes'. The onus same as now.

As today's system, we can not just go and look at David Cameron (UK) or Obama's bank accounts, and who is sending what, and how much. Under a bitcoin system, we would, anyone could. And I don't imagine the current 'style' of governments we had would last very long if everyone could see exactly what the politicians and parties were getting. Especially if some law stated that all large donations had to be declared. Thinking about it, politicians and especially the bankers already have the 'privacy' in place that bitcoin promises to give to the masses ..


Avoiding tax paying to corrupt parties and politicians would (when bitcoin was massively used) cripple governments. Also freeing up more local money to spend in a persons surrounding area.

So.. (assuming the inevitable growth of bitcoin)

1. If governments don't adopt they'll lose massively on tax, meaning more job losses and more tax to those paying still, to continue to fund their wars and banker bonuses.

2. When they finally adopt it, employees of the states finances will be much more transparent. This would hopefully force disbandment of corrupt parties and officials and growth of honest/transparent parties.

3. Government parties adopt late, or collapse, and bitcoin spending is done on supported local authorities, which gain more independence.


Hm.. these are just thoughts, I can't really see how governments would totally collapse, just the current greed/bankers fed corrupt governments to end, which wouldn't happen until sometime after the adoption of bitcoin by a state. And saying all this, individuals would still be able to receive anonymous money, just makes parties and those employed more transparent at the first instance, which is a hell of a lot more than what we have atm.

[Lethn]

The governments were bound to collapse with or without Bitcoin, what Bitcoin does is make it so that people who are wise enough to at least diversify in Bitcoin don't suffer because of their actions.

[fwho]

They couldnt just make a new, discrete wallet?

[ralree]

People getting paid in bitcoin can avoid tax if they spend/keep their bitcoin in the bitcoin world

Wrong - that's called tax evasion.  Receipt of bitcoin is like receipt of gold - it must be reported as income to the tax authority in your nation.

[nobbynobbynoob]

People getting paid in bitcoin can avoid tax if they spend/keep their bitcoin in the bitcoin world

Wrong - that's called tax evasion.  Receipt of bitcoin is like receipt of gold - it must be reported as income to the tax authority in your nation.

Technically correct but tough to enforce. And not all tax offices are quite as arrogant or aggressive as the US IRS (though they're all bad).

[Severian]

Wrong - that's called tax evasion. 

So what? That's why Bitcoin was invented.

[nobbynobbynoob]

Wrong - that's called tax evasion. 

So what? That's why Bitcoin was invented.

In fairness, you don't need BTC to dodge taxes: cash works well enough at a local level. It's tougher to move cash or metal discretely over large distances, however.

[Severian]

In fairness, you don't need BTC to dodge taxes

True, but crypto is the best weapon thus far in the battle against centralization and confiscation.

What's ironic to me are the people that now possess this weapon yet still WANT to comply with some arbitrary authority.

[myrkul]

In fairness, you don't need BTC to dodge taxes

True, but crypto is the best weapon thus far in the battle against centralization and confiscation.

What's ironic to me are the people that now possess this weapon yet still WANT to comply with some arbitrary authority.

"... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."

[zeroday]

True, but crypto is the best weapon thus far in the battle against centralization and confiscation.

However, nowadays "centralization and confiscation" is fairly repressive but the only method to keep stability in "modern" society which consist may be of over 90% "zombies" who depend mainly on social programs and subsidies.
If somebody disagrees, they may try to go and live in tribal area of Afghanistan to feel all the "pleasures" of society without authorities and governments.
Bitcoin, IMHO, is just like an offshore haven to hide assets for wise people. But the majority of not-so-wise people will continue ignoring it as they ignored great opportunities of "banana islands" in the past.

[myrkul]

If somebody disagree, they may try to go and live in tribal area of Afghanistan to feel all the "pleasures" of society without authorities and governments.

I would actually suggest the tribal areas of Somalia. It's still 3rd world, so it's not up to the safety and health standards of the US, but from reports, it's pretty decent.

[Severian]

However, nowadays "centralization and confiscation" is fairly repressive but the only method to keep stability in "modern" society which consist may be of over 90% "zombies" who depend mainly on social programs and subsidies.

I would actually suggest the tribal areas of Somalia. It's still 3rd world, so it's not up to the safety and health standards of the US, but from reports, it's pretty decent.

Sorry to add just a quote as a response, but it's apropos.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

-Jefferson

[zeroday]

Great words, but don't forget that Jefferson's "freedom" model was designated for the white and was based on slavery.
Today western "freedom" is also backed by 3rd world countries which play the role of those slaves.

[Mike Christ]

Great words, but don't forget that Jefferson's "freedom" model was designated for the white and was based on slavery.
Today western "freedom" is also backed by 3rd world countries which play the role of those slaves.

Don't forget the leagues of people with three jobs in America

[Severian]

Great words, but don't forget that Jefferson's "freedom" model was designated for the white and was based on slavery.

Jefferson's original Declaration of Independence contained a section on the evils of slavery*. That section was edited out by members of the Continental Congress, some of whom were also involved with the slave trade, especially the South Carolina and Georgia delegations.

Remember that Jefferson was greatly responsible for stopping the slave trade into Virginia in 1778 when he was governor of the colony. It was one of the first bans of slavery on a state/nation level in history. He also expended much political capital in his failure to ban slave importation in the US when he was president in the early 19th century.

Jefferson was far more complex than  given credit for by the larger culture. Yes, he was born to the institution of slavery as a slave owner but he hated it. He also had the same problem that all people are confronted with when asked to choose between doing what might be right versus being able to keep their economic position: they usually choose the money over doing the right thing. Jefferson kept his slaves not only because they paid his bills but he'd also known them for his entire life.

By the measure of our own times, Jefferson was a less than admirable figure. But we get a two-dimensional view of people looking at them only from our vantage point. In terms of his own day, Jefferson was far ahead of the crowd. Long before most other people figured it out, he knew that slavery would eat this country alive, as it ended up doing: "We have the wolf by the ears; and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. Justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other."

* Removed paragraph of DoI:

He [King George III] has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it’s most sacred rights of life & liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce: and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people upon whom he also obtruded them; thus paying off former crimes committed against the liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.

[Lethn]

Wrong - that's called tax evasion.

So what? That's why Bitcoin was invented.

Actually, if we want to get technical, Bitcoin is pretty much tax avoidance rather than tax evasion, tax evasion means you're still in the country with your wealth etc. not paying taxes from what I understand, tax avoidance means you're just not wanting to pay taxes at all and stay away from it? I think that's how it works but there's two definitions but tax avoidance is where you go out of the country to stay away from paying taxes. I think Bitcoin either falls somewhere in between or something because we're all putting our wealth in our computers to avoid paying for taxes rather than just simply not pay them at all, it's a whole new currency and you could argue it's like making a country on the internet rather than just simply not pay taxes which is what tax evasion is supposed to be.

Now I understand why the governments haven't said anything much about Bitcoin yet LOL this is a headache.

[Ekaros]

Great words, but don't forget that Jefferson's "freedom" model was designated for the white and was based on slavery.
Today western "freedom" is also backed by 3rd world countries which play the role of those slaves.

Don't forget the leagues of people with three jobs in America

Yeah, this need to eat and to have some place with relative warmth in northern and southern parts of planet really does have some effects how free one can be...

[dank]

Their time will be up shortly.

[gapthemind]

End of governments? Nope, it wont happen anytime soon. Some governments are so strong ( Germany ) that they can rule entire countries without military need. Well globalisation is the key...

[RodeoX]

The "end of government" would mean the end of peace, security, freedom, and all the infrastructure that has never worked without a governing authority.

People love to talk about how the U.S. government oppresses them.  I would suggest spending some coins on a world history course. We live in the safest, free-est conditions the world has ever known. You can expect to get old and have many of your diseases cured. You likely won't die in a war or starve.

Give it up and only the strongest will be free. Your food, women, possessions; all will belong to whoever organizes their own government.