creativex
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March 15, 2013, 02:40:09 AM |
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You need not be a lawyer to recognize that their policy is a violation of consumer protection laws in the US. It may be safer for BFL to hold investor pre-order funds hostage, but that doesn't supersede FTC prompt delivery regulations. Regulations which they've been in violation of for months already.
Hey, remember the old "orders will be refundable after 12/31/2012 if we fail to deliver" language? Man, those were the days!
BFL being in violation of FTC prompt delivery regulations helps customers how? They can't be directed to deliver a product which doesn't exist. They can be directed to give refunds but to date they've been doing that voluntarily anyway. They can likely be fined, but that doesn't directly benefit customers (administrative penalties generally don't). BFL would argue that failure to request a refund amounted to consent by the customers to the delay. Customers would argue that they failed to cancel because BFL repeatedly led them to believe that delivery was imminent. When dealing with regulatory agencies, one of the first questions you need to ask is what you want them to do? Don't care. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) In fact I don't think much more of the FTC than I do the CFTC or even BFL for that matter. We all know what they've done. We all know how much they've cost people with their bs. We all know the character of the execs at BFL. How many people sold their FPGAs in anticipation of BFL's HONEST ABE October shipping schedule? GPU farms? They've cost a lot of people some serious change with their scammy shell games, deceptive marketing ploys, and outright lies. It's not my problem, I never ordered from them, and I sure ain't gonna run and tell daddy on them, but I also refuse to gloss over the slimy scammy nature of what these con men have done.
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PuertoLibre
Legendary
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Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
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March 15, 2013, 02:56:02 AM |
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repentance
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March 15, 2013, 03:03:43 AM |
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I'm fucked if I know what customer service is so busy with given that they should have been spending most of their time on putting units in boxes and shipping them by now.
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All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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creativex
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 15, 2013, 03:36:16 AM |
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No clue. In fact given that BFL appears to have outsourced everything I have no idea what these people actually do with their work days.
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glitch003
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March 15, 2013, 06:06:29 AM |
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Interesting: http://business.ftc.gov/documents/alt051-selling-internet-prompt-delivery-rulesFor definite delays of up to 30 days, you may treat the customer's silence as agreeing to the delay. But for longer or indefinite delays - and second and subsequent delays - you must get the customer's written, electronic or verbal consent to the delay. If the customer doesn't give you his okay, you must promptly refund all the money the customer paid you without being asked by the customer.
Finally, you have the right to cancel orders that you can't fill in a timely manner, but you must promptly notify the customer of your decision and make a prompt refund.
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repentance
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March 15, 2013, 06:13:35 AM |
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Interesting: http://business.ftc.gov/documents/alt051-selling-internet-prompt-delivery-rulesFor definite delays of up to 30 days, you may treat the customer's silence as agreeing to the delay. But for longer or indefinite delays - and second and subsequent delays - you must get the customer's written, electronic or verbal consent to the delay. If the customer doesn't give you his okay, you must promptly refund all the money the customer paid you without being asked by the customer.
Finally, you have the right to cancel orders that you can't fill in a timely manner, but you must promptly notify the customer of your decision and make a prompt refund.
Nobody's disagreeing that BFL has contravened this regulation, but it still only entitles customers to a refund.
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All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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cedivad
Legendary
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Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
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March 15, 2013, 07:03:10 AM |
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The chips are fine.
Source? I'm trolling, I tough it was evident.
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My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive: Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
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Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
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March 15, 2013, 07:15:41 AM |
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Wait I just read it lol.
It says they will be issuing refunds after Jan 1st. So what changed?
Seems the pre-order funds are running low. Gotta stop the refunds asap. Hate to do this to you Syke, but you're wrong. More than one of the BFL crew clearly stated that only a few orders were canceled. They've also stated that no pre-order moneys were used for development, inferring that if everybody cancelled all at once, everybody would be promptly paid in full with no questions asked. To prove that the above is factual, I invite Josh to refute it. ~Bruno K~
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repentance
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 15, 2013, 07:44:57 AM |
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They've also stated that no pre-order moneys were used for development, inferring that if everybody cancelled all at once, everybody would be promptly paid in full with no questions asked.
Your powers of inference are getting shaky Phin. Stating that no pre-order funds were used for development in no way implies that they haven't been used for other expenses or that they're quarantined.
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All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 15, 2013, 07:50:38 AM |
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They've also stated that no pre-order moneys were used for development, inferring that if everybody cancelled all at once, everybody would be promptly paid in full with no questions asked.
Your powers of inference are getting shaky Phin. Stating that no pre-order funds were used for development in no way implies that they haven't been used for other expenses or that they're quarantined. Tired, hence the incorrect word choice.
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repentance
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March 15, 2013, 08:00:08 AM |
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Tired, hence the incorrect word choice.
No, it's an important point which I think you're right to raise. BFL have never said that all pre-order money remains untouched, only that it wasn't being used to fund development. They could very easily clarify whether or not pre-order funds have been untouched except for refunds if they wanted to (tired, poor grammar).
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All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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tytus
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March 15, 2013, 10:13:04 AM |
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Is there any info about the Luke-JR's trip ?
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repentance
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March 15, 2013, 10:17:36 AM |
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It went offline a while back and came back up. The forum and the website are both down now, though.
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All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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creativex
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March 15, 2013, 11:54:16 AM |
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meh... Friday morning garbage pickup?
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greyhawk
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March 15, 2013, 12:04:33 PM |
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Isn't Luke Jr. at BFL today?
And Luke entered the temple and drove out all those who were mining and crafting in the temple, and overturned the benches of the assemblers and the seats of those who were selling butterflies.
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Red_Evil
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March 15, 2013, 12:10:37 PM |
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A Little later : BFL Closed , No refunds ,,,, Goodbye ... the tickets was for all Employer to the Caribic ... not only for Jr Update : ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Ftp%2Fartikel%2F36%2F36387%2F36387_1.jpg&t=665&c=HoMyXTMrBnPYvw)
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Big Time Coin
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March 15, 2013, 02:13:23 PM |
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Isn't Luke Jr. at BFL today?
And Luke entered the temple and drove out all those who were mining and crafting in the temple, and overturned the benches of the assemblers and the seats of those who were selling butterflies.
good one, lol
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Big time, I'm on my way I'm making it, big time, oh yes - Peter Gabriel
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Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
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Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
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March 15, 2013, 07:51:38 PM |
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Isn't Luke Jr. at BFL today?
And Luke entered the temple and drove out all those who were mining and crafting in the temple, and overturned the benches of the assemblers and the seats of those who were selling butterflies.
good one, lol Looks to me like some followers are forking their religion, perhaps entering a cult. I've even noticed that I. Ron Butterfly added a new song in the hymnal: In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida. I, for one, plan on attending Chipstock, a million-man-concert produced by Dank.
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