European Union is robbing its citizens' bank accounts. 9.9% to be confiscated.

[Puppet]

EU has intentionally destroyed the economy of Cyprus by refusing to create an extra 6 billion accounting entry in their computers. This is all.

Are you saying you want the european central bank to create the money for every bad debt out there, moral hazard and inflation be damned? You were then also  in favor of the bank bailouts in the  US? You oppose the idea that bad businesses should go out of business and instead should be rescued by government bailouts?
Really?

Letting those banks go bankrupt while protecting the small savers is the only sensible thing the EU or Cyprus could do.  If you want to blame them for anything; then blame them for having it let come this far but realize then that you are advocating more government oversight over banks. If you oppose that then you also have to accept the depositors liability for not doing their own due diligence. You cant have it both ways.

[Vladimir]

EU has intentionally destroyed the economy of Cyprus by refusing to create an extra 6 billion accounting entry in their computers. This is all.

Are you saying you want the european central bank to create the money for every bad debt out there, moral hazard and inflation be damned?

Isn't it exactly what they were doing all the time? Oh of course it was to save German and French banks not some tiny island nation.

[caveden]

EU has intentionally destroyed the economy of Cyprus by refusing to create an extra 6 billion accounting entry in their computers. This is all.

Are you really arguing that it would be better to push the problem further into the future with inflation??

EU created this mess years ago, precisely due to creating too many "accounting entries in their computers" to buy debt bonds from many of its sub-governments. This crisis is the natural consequence.

Of course that it would be fairer to take all assets from banksters, but inflating the problem into the future is definitely worse than what's being done.

[Vladimir]

Ohh and now they did not kick any cans down the road. They did not give them LOAN of 10b on condition that Cypriots suicide their economy for it.

I am perfectly fine with central bankers suddenly becoming prudent and allowing weak to die out. The point is. It is not what is happening. They will still maintain zombi banks all over but Cyprus.

Anyway, whatever they do it all comes crashing down in the end, they just have accelerated this process a bit by bullying Cyprus.

[zeroday]

Id just like to point out; one can claim the government is stealing from savers, but if the government and EU did nothing, those banks would go bankrupt and big and small savers alike would lose most, if not all of their money. After all; that money isnt theirs anymore, they lent it to the bank at interest. Is that really a better solution?

Now for sums below 100K those funds were supposedly guaranteed by the government and I can understand the anger; but for anything above that, if you have all your money invested in an insolvent bank, you are going to take a haircut one way or another and blaming the government doesnt make much sense.

You are wrong.
Not only time deposits which generate interests are affected, but also current and savings accounts with no interest.
Just imagine that year by year you saves money to buy nice countryside home after retirement. All the money is kept on current account and you can access it anytime. But once, you just find that your account is frozen and all your savings over 100k are converted into toxic obligations to repay country's debt, which means you actually lost anything over 100k. Bye bye, happy retirement. Being successful and live without debt is punishable nowadays...

The same happened to every business who has more the 100k on their current account. All wages, prepayments from customers, etc, to be lost and business goes bankrupt. All workers are fired and customers don't get ordered items they paid for. But, hallelujah, country debt is resolved!

[Puppet]

Id just like to point out; one can claim the government is stealing from savers, but if the government and EU did nothing, those banks would go bankrupt and big and small savers alike would lose most, if not all of their money. After all; that money isnt theirs anymore, they lent it to the bank at interest. Is that really a better solution?

Now for sums below 100K those funds were supposedly guaranteed by the government and I can understand the anger; but for anything above that, if you have all your money invested in an insolvent bank, you are going to take a haircut one way or another and blaming the government doesnt make much sense.

You are wrong.
Not only time deposits which generate interests are affected, but also current and savings accounts with no interest.
Just imagine that year by year you saves money to buy nice countryside home after retirement. All the money is kept on current account and you can access it anytime. But once, you just find that your account is frozen and all your savings over 100k are converted into toxic obligations to repay country's debt, which means you actually lost anything over 100k. Bye bye, happy retirement. Being successful and live without debt is punishable nowadays...

Look; I would be angry if I lost my money too. Im not saying it doesnt suck. It certainly does suck.
That said  the fact of the matter is that those banks bankrupted themselves and now we have hoards of libertarians suddenly demanding government bailouts. Probably the same ones that oppose government regulation and financial oversight. That doesnt make sense.

AFAIK the government guaranteed the first 100K euro. Thats what they should stick to (and if I understood correctly; they now will); you cant fault a saver for actually believing the government. 

Anyone with more money on there  should have done their own due diligence.  You might want to make an exception for anyone transferring money briefly; like when buying a house or something; but beyond that I dont see why big deposit holders should be treated any differently from shareholders or any other creditor those bankrupt banks owe money to. No one guaranteed them their funds and I dont see why any taxpayer be it from cyprus or elsewhere should compensate their loss.

The same happened to every business who has more the 100k on their current account. All wages, prepayments from customers, etc, to be lost and business goes bankrupt. All workers are fired and customers don't get ordered items they paid for. But, hallelujah, country debt is resolved!

True, it will have an ugly cascading effect. Its not like I rejoice in someone else's misery; but the facts are what they are.
Maybe something else can be done for those businesses like extending them credit to help overcome this problem, or perhaps you can put them in the same category as "house buyers", but the solution cant be to prop up failed banks.

[zeroday]

AFAIK the government guaranteed the first 100K euro. Thats what they should stick to (and if I understood correctly; they now will); you cant fault a saver for actually believing the government.  

Initially, EU insisted on putting 6-10% levy on every amount regardless is it insured it or not. Having now under-100k deposits untouched is solely the merit of Cypriot parliament who rejected this proposal.

I dont see why big deposit holders should be treated any differently from shareholders or any other creditor those bankrupt banks owe money to. No one guaranteed them their funds and I dont see why any taxpayer be it from cyprus or elsewhere should compensate their loss.

We are talking about current accounts which does not have interest, and logically, no risk, as bank cannot use this money to invest into any obligations. Taking money from current account is the same as taking it out of your pocket, and it is named THEFT.

The same happened to every business who has more the 100k on their current account. All wages, prepayments from customers, etc, to be lost and business goes bankrupt. All workers are fired and customers don't get ordered items they paid for. But, hallelujah, country debt is resolved!

True, it will have an ugly cascading effect. Its not like I rejoice in someone else's misery; but the facts are what they are.
Maybe something else can be done for those businesses like extending them credit to help overcome this problem, or perhaps you can put them in the same category as "house buyers", but the solution cant be to prop up failed banks.

Hahaha! Brilliant idea! Now we need to beg thieves who raided our bank accounts to lend us back some of stolen money.

[Puppet]

We are talking about current accounts which does not have interest, and logically, no risk, as bank cannot use this money to invest into any obligations. Taking money from current account is the same as taking it out of your pocket, and it is named THEFT.

First of all; Ive never heard of an account not paying interest. Low as it may be these days. Secondly its not because interest is low or even non existent that it logically follows there is no risk. What makes you say that? 
 Not so long ago people bought german debt at negative interest rates because of the perceived low (but still not non existent) risk.

Hahaha! Brilliant idea! Now we need to beg thieves who raided our bank accounts to lend us back some of stolen money.

Who do you think raided your banks?  Honestly, Im not privy to all the details, but shouldnt your anger be directed in the first place to the bank executives who played in the casino of financial derivatives with your money and lost?

[zeroday]

Putter, FYI, Current Account = Transactional Account, an account which doesn't generate interest. It's purpose is solely to make transactions.
In other words, anytime putting money in a bank, you are putting it into abyss. Now please tell my why should we use banks at all ?

[justusranvier]

Putter, FYI, Current Account = Transactional Account, an account which doesn't generate interest. It's purpose is solely to make transactions.
In other words, anytime putting money in a bank, you are putting it into abyss. Now please tell my why should we use banks at all ?

So it's easier to steal from you, obviously.

[creativex]

Who do you think raided your banks?  Honestly, Im not privy to all the details, but shouldnt your anger be directed in the first place to the bank executives who played in the casino of financial derivatives with your money and lost?

You don't think bank casinos are a direct result of money printing and zero or negative real interest rates? They're borrowing for nothing, is it really shocking that their risk assessment is skewed? Banksters suck, but they're very plainly in league with the ruling class.

[zeroday]

In my case I pay annul fee to the bank for maintaining my business account. They are paid for keeping my money safe. What is the point ? Why should I bear risk of bank or government if they have problem on their side?

[Puppet]

Putter, FYI, Current Account = Transactional Account, an account which doesn't generate interest. It's purpose is solely to make transactions.
In other words, anytime putting money in a bank, you are putting it into abyss. Now please tell my why should we use banks at all ?

Well; its called a  current account  here and it does bear interest, even if its almost symbolic (less than 1%).

Either way; the moment you give your money to the bank its no longer your money; it is the banks money to do with as it pleases within the rule of law. If you want assurances you will need someone to assure it. I would expect the libertarians to rely on free market insurance and private due diligence. Others may call on the government, and the government did do it for sub 100K accounts but its unreasonable and stupid to demand even more from the  government if that same government doesnt have  oversight and enough regulation in place to be able make those assurances. You cant have it both ways.

From what I heard Cyprus had extremely lax banking oversight and next to no regulation. Thats its government choice (and assuming a functional democracy, the will of the people). There are potential consequences to that. When things went well you reaped its rewards; now that it  went sour  I dont think its reasonable to  expect other taxpayers in countries with more stringent laws and oversight to bail you out, let alone claim they are robbing you.

[Puppet]

Who do you think raided your banks?  Honestly, Im not privy to all the details, but shouldnt your anger be directed in the first place to the bank executives who played in the casino of financial derivatives with your money and lost?

You don't think bank casinos are a direct result of money printing and zero or negative real interest rates? They're borrowing for nothing, is it really shocking that their risk assessment is skewed?

I dont disagree with that and I also think its dangerous and stupid to give that money to the banks.
Even so; if someone lends you money at zero interest rate and you gamble it away in a casino, I wouldnt point fingers in the first place at the lender. Its still your responsibility:

[creativex]

Banksters, like politicians go to great lengths to maintain a veneer of respectability and as a result the vast majority of people have no idea that they're handing money to crooks. When you tack the fraud of government depository insurance upon that, the vast majority mistakenly believe they can trust their local banksters.

[Puppet]

Banksters, like politicians go to great lengths to maintain a veneer of respectability and as a result the vast majority of people have no idea that they're handing money to crooks. When you tack the fraud of government depository insurance upon that, the vast majority mistakenly believe they can trust their local banksters.

Seems to me the government in Cyprus made good on its deposit insurance. You cant reasonably expect more and at the same time demand those governments deregulate and dont meddle with private banks as long as they are winning their bets and collecting their bonuses. Either you are in favor of banksters being free to play like degenerate gamblers with other people's money (and consumer responsible for selecting a solvent bank),  or you are in favor of sufficient financial regulation for a government to be able to guarantee deposits. I dont see a third way.

[Vladimir]

The thing is Russians are leaving along with their money. Medvedev might cancel the double taxation treaty and then there will be no reason for any wealthy Russian to stay on Cyprus.

Some might say "big deal", but this will turn Cyprus back into a fishing village it used to be. Germany has destroyed Cyprus as an offshore tax heaven. I am not sure if they will be able to recover. No more Tiffany shops, fish&chips shops only after that.

[zeroday]

Germany has just robbed and raped Cyprus. I don't see reason why should Cypriots stay with EUR as it will only put them in the abyss of further debts.

[Razick]

Yea, I read about that. Horrible. The new proposal is no better, it just allows low-medium value accounts to avoid the tax for political convenience.

[mobodick]

AFAIK the government guaranteed the first 100K euro. Thats what they should stick to (and if I understood correctly; they now will); you cant fault a saver for actually believing the government.  

Initially, EU insisted on putting 6-10% levy on every amount regardless is it insured it or not. Having now under-100k deposits untouched is solely the merit of Cypriot parliament who rejected this proposal.

I read that the 6-10% levy was a solution brought forward by the Cypriote government and not the EU.
Having the 100k deposits protected was entirely due to people taking to the streets.

That's quite something else than what you're saying.