European Union is robbing its citizens' bank accounts. 9.9% to be confiscated.

[Akka]

You formed a union with your neighbors to work within a single financial system and a single currency.  You are all mismanaging it together so you should all pay together.  Not only because you all caused the problem together (so you deserve to share the loss), but because if any of you go down you all go down.  You don't have to like each other, you just have to keep each other afloat when things get bad.  If you didn't want to pay for things like this then you should not have set up such an insane arrangement in the first place.

The agreement hardly was you can make investments as risky as you want and we gonna bail you out.

Again, I know that all Europeans are in this mess together and that there is no other Option than to bailout this Banks.

I have no problem with the actuall bailout ( no more than any other one here that is).

The only problem that I have is that my Tax-money is used to bail out this States and know when I look for news about this States I see this:







And that just pisses me off.

Where are the Burning bankster puppets?

Where is the Caricature of the Cyprian Financial Director (or who ever is in charge there)?

[caveden]

If the EU didn't want to bail out banks then they should allow them to fail

The banks should definitely fail. What I'm repeatedly describing here is how a bank failure should proceed.

, but they still need to pay what they owe to the people whose deposits they insured (there is some kind of deposit insurance in Europe, isn't there?).  

Where do you think such money would come from? The tooth fairy?
These state-backed insurances rely on the barrel of a gun (as everything else backed by states). Why should Cypriot (or worse, EU) tax-victims be forced to finance the risk-taking of those who invested in these banks going down? Only those who took the risk should lose. People who had no relation with the failing banks should not be stolen.

Again, read this (as apparently you did not): http://detlevschlichter.com/2013/03/cyprus-and-the-reality-of-banking-deposit-haircuts-are-both-inevitable-and-the-right-thing-to-do/

If you want to bail out banks then you need to bail them out and forget your idiotic, suicidal nationalism.  

WTF!? I don't want to bail out any bank. And how the hell did you conclude I'm nationalist??
Seriously, would you mind at least reading what I write before blasting such ridiculous accusations?

In the US wealthy states like New Hampshire have been picking up the tab for poor states like Miss
issippi since forever.  Yeah, they have cultural differences.  Yeah, the people in New Hampshire and Mississippi might not like each other.  That doesn't matter because we have one financial system.  We aren't going to allow one state to fall because another state doesn't want to pay because they aren't from New Hampshire.  Nobody would ever hold it against Mississippi that they are poor so they need more handouts from the Federal government.  We understand contagion and externalities.

The fact that so many outrageous injustices are practiced in US is not an excuse to practice them anywhere else.

The argument I see Germans making is that Germans shouldn't have to bail out other people who work with the same monetary system as them because Germans aren't responsible for anybody but Germany.  That is socialist nationalism.

WTFx2? Do you even... I mean...

And you dare link me to word definitions... 

you all deserve the recession that is coming.  

The recession is inevitable. It's the inexorable consequence of an artificial creation of credit through inflation. The best (less worse) way of dealing with it is letting bad investments die, let companies fail, the quickest possible. The worst way of dealing with it is by pushing the problem further with the creation of more money/credit, or by increasing government spending

dissolve the EU and be done with it

That'd be great.

[Puppet]

You formed a union with your neighbors to work within a single financial system and a single currency.  You are all mismanaging it together so you should all pay together.  Not only because you all caused the problem together (so you deserve to share the loss), but because if any of you go down you all go down.  You don't have to like each other, you just have to keep each other afloat when things get bad.  If you didn't want to pay for things like this then you should not have set up such an insane arrangement in the first place.

The above might be an argument to bail out states. And actually; I dont mind too much if some of my tax money went to greece or spain or cyprus in the form of debt relief (which makes a lot more sense to me than lending them even more money they cant pay back). Its also in my interest those states get back on their feet financially and economically.

But the above can not possibly be an argument to bail out failed banks that took ridiculous risks and lost it all. The moral hazard is exactly the same as in the US bailout; which I think was a colossal mistake. Those banks and its shareholders should have been wiped out so that banks (and their shareholders) that didnt mismanage their customers fund would actually have had benefit from their better strategy. Im glad the EU is doing this part right at least.  

[herzmeister]

And that just pisses me off.

Where are the Burning bankster puppets?

Where is the Caricature of the Cyprian Financial Director (or who ever is in charge there)?

hey Akka, let's go to Cyprus and start an exculpation rally. We zeh Germans apologize on behalf of Merkel and the German people, and introduce them to Bitcoin.

[deeplink]

It has to hurt the people who profited from this mess, too.

But it is hurting the people who profited from this mess the most: the sheeple that continue to allow the current banking and monetary system to exist and who support politicians that use it to steal from each other through taxation, debt and inflation.

If you voted, you have agreed to play a game in which the elected politicians get to make the decisions for you. In reality you are an accomplice to this mess and only have yourself to blame if you get hurt. Let the people that created the mess also solve it by themselves. Unfortunately people who were NOT supporting this game and did NOT vote for it also got hurt. They deserve sympathy.

Thank god there is now an alternative emerging to at least have a choice to opt out of part of this diseased system.

[Vladimir]

I believe some actually voted like 3-4 times. EU is new democratic paradigm, we keep voting until the answer is yes.

[deeplink]

I believe some actually voted like 3-4 times. EU is new democratic paradigm, we keep voting until the answer is yes.

Yes it is quite mad. But not as mad as legitimizing with a vote a system in which the majority is allowed to force and steal from anyone at gunpoint who is minding his own business.

[zeroday]

This is called moral hazard, and the fact that this shit is going to blow up on all of the Finns' and Germans' face, is the very reason why I took my last EUR 30,000 out of the bank today (see pic). Now they can try to "tax" me bruahaha.

Without doubt, this is what should all Europeans do today.
But tomorrow rules may change and all paper EUR become useless. They can just prohibit paper money forcing everyone to use bank accounts only.

[justusranvier]

They can just prohibit paper money forcing everyone to use bank accounts only.

That's a good reason to hold all your savings in BTC and only maintain a bare minimum in local current, just enough to meet your living expenses.

[Redi]

A) I'm sooooo glad we don't have that sh!tty € here. (On the other hand we have other problems )

B) As one old gentleman told me during my internship in the UK > "Never trust Germans and French." And thats exactly what everybody should do

[Vladimir]

A) I'm sooooo glad we don't have that sh!tty € here. (On the other hand we have other problems )

B) As one old gentleman told me during my internship in the UK > "Never trust Germans and French." And thats exactly what everybody should do

Never trust Brits either. In fact record all your conversations just in case. No seriously. 

[rpietila]

This is called moral hazard, and the fact that this shit is going to blow up on all of the Finns' and Germans' face, is the very reason why I took my last EUR 30,000 out of the bank today (see pic). Now they can try to "tax" me bruahaha.

Without doubt, this is what should all Europeans do today.
But tomorrow rules may change and all paper EUR become useless. They can just prohibit paper money forcing everyone to use bank accounts only.

In all probability, sure as hell they can and will. But wait, doesn't that spell hunger..

I am more than prepared to wind down my business altogether, if it doesn't make sense any more. I am already selling my silver stock at a discount (see signature) and keeping the proceeds in bitcoin. If the politicians want that all economic activity grind to standstill, I am the early indicator. In fact I sold out of gold already, and cashed out of euros in the bank. If they force me to abandon cash, the only business that I have left is to trade between silver and bitcoin. And since even that needs to be done clandestinely I am afraid, there will be no business, and I can start collecting dole and move to Thailand.

My company's closing of gold operations was the 3rd most read article in Helsingin Sanomat the biggest Finnish newspaper, last Wednesday.

[JoelKatz]

It has to hurt the people who profited from this mess, too.

No. It has to hurt the people who are *responsible* for the mess and those who chose to take risks. However, that's not on the table. Instead, the same innocent people are being made to pay for the mess over and over and then over again.

[deeplink]

It has to hurt the people who profited from this mess, too.

No. It has to hurt the people who are *responsible* for the mess and those who chose to take risks. However, that's not on the table. Instead, the same innocent people are being made to pay for the mess over and over and then over again.

Who are responsible in your opinion? And who are the "innocent" people you're referring to?

[Akka]

It has to hurt the people who profited from this mess, too.

No. It has to hurt the people who are *responsible* for the mess and those who chose to take risks.

Agree, that's actually what I meant.

However, it can not be that other now pay the profits that where generated by that risks.

Still on this bank accounts massive interests where paid, backed by those risks. A full bailout would also mean to bail out the money generated by those interests. A bail out with money from people that didn't receive those interests. How is that better?

[JoelKatz]

It has to hurt the people who profited from this mess, too.

No. It has to hurt the people who are *responsible* for the mess and those who chose to take risks. However, that's not on the table. Instead, the same innocent people are being made to pay for the mess over and over and then over again.

Who are responsible in your opinion? And who are the "innocent" people you're referring to?

The list of the guilty is so long I wouldn't even know where to start. The innocent people are depositors in banks that were purportedly government insured and ordinary people around the world whose governments are taking on massive debt and adopting greater and greater austerity measures just to pay for their past mistakes.

Update: I wouldn't include those who consciously chose to put money beyond the insured amounts into banks paying unusually high interest (without investigating how they managed to get those interest rates or how stable the banks were) among the innocent.

[Vladimir]

It has to hurt the people who profited from this mess, too.

No. It has to hurt the people who are *responsible* for the mess and those who chose to take risks. However, that's not on the table. Instead, the same innocent people are being made to pay for the mess over and over and then over again.

Who are responsible in your opinion? And who are the "innocent" people you're referring to?

The list of the guilty is so long I wouldn't even know where to start. The innocent people are depositors in banks that were purportedly government insured and ordinary people around the world whose governments are taking on massive debt and adopting greater and greater austerity measures just to pay for their past mistakes.

Wait... Arent they all Russian mafioso?

[zeroday]

In 1933 they said "all the jews are mofiosos" and seized their assets to recover economy...
...80 years after the history repeats, but "the jews" are replaced by "the russians".

Do you know the name of political regime which finds fast and easy ways to resolve complicated problems?

[Akka]

Do you know the name of political regime which finds fast and easy ways to resolve complicated problems?

Russia? http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20130326-48765.html#.UVNM8Vfdg6w

* I'm not serious, though

[qbits]

Is this really a EU thing, and not a Cyprus thing?

Yes. The problem is that a lot of Russian money is parked in Cypriotic bank accounts, and the EU doesn't feel like spending a few billion Euro's to protect the savings of Russians. Hence this solution, in which the Russians are forced to help pay the debt as well.

Stealing money from actual hard-working Cypriots is considered collateral damage. Very sad indeed.
Good news for bitcoin, bad news for the poor Cypriots, for the EU and for the future of the Euro.

Russian banks in Cyprus are solvent and need no rescue. Even if they were in trouble, EU could simply let banks go bankrupt. This would automaticaly shave all savings accounts above 100k€ in total.

So the argument that EU spends billions to protect Russians it beyond false. It's stupid.