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Author Topic: [SMAS] Signature Managers against Spam (light version)  (Read 99469 times)
Lutpin
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July 11, 2016, 10:23:42 AM
 #41

You might not understand it right now, but you will in due time.
I don't know if you got spooked by your name being on the list posted by notaek right now (which would make you a SMAS Tag #3 currently) or what it is, but anyhow.
SMAS isn't about aquiring power, it's about distributing the power we already have as signature campaign managers between the collective.

The reason why we can be judge, jury and executioner all at once is, because we already are. It's our damn job as managers. This won't change.
What will change however is how we organise ourselves across campaigns, resulting in a better way to do our job each individually, taking work off the single member sourcing it out to the collective.
Ultimatively, this will lead (in the best case) to better results of campaign management, and to less signature spam due to managers working together in order to fight it.


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July 11, 2016, 10:39:27 AM
 #42

You might not understand it right now, but you will in due time.
I don't know if you got spooked by your name being on the list posted by notaek right now (which would make you a SMAS Tag #3 currently) or what it is, but anyhow.
SMAS isn't about aquiring power, it's about distributing the power we already have as signature campaign managers between the collective.

The reason why we can be judge, jury and executioner all at once is, because we already are. It's our damn job as managers. This won't change.
What will change however is how we organise ourselves across campaigns, resulting in a better way to do our job each individually, taking work off the single member sourcing it out to the collective.
Ultimatively, this will lead (in the best case) to better results of campaign management, and to less signature spam due to managers working together in order to fight it.

I looked through his list earlier and didn't even notice my name their to be honest,  it's his choice if he's decided he's wanted to black list me though, i am a heavy Poster but that doesn't mean it's spam.  i don't think i will lose any sleep over it though since many people just completely ban anyone with a signature.  Oh well i will keep an eye on this and see what comes off it.

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July 11, 2016, 10:47:39 AM
Last edit: July 11, 2016, 11:02:52 AM by Lutpin
 #43

I looked through his list earlier and didn't even notice my name their to be honest,  it's his choice if he's decided he's wanted to black list me though, i am a heavy Poster but that doesn't mean it's spam.
He seems to disagree. However, as we didn't launch the SMAS protocoll yet, I haven't had any look at the users from that list yet.
You speaking up in the manner you did made me ask for the reason, and frankly I think I found it there (yeah, you didn't see yourself on there, sure Wink ).

I don't think i will lose any sleep over it though since many people just completely ban anyone with a signature.  Oh well i will keep an eye on this and see what comes off it.
You're enrolled in one of the campaigns I don't expect to participate (alongside with secondstrade), so you probably can straightup ignore SMAS, as long as you plan on staying with YoBit.
Your avatar campaign however is managed by SFR10 if I recall, which would mean it's going to be affected by SMAS in the future.



We can agree to disagree on weather ~snip~
It's always sunny in YoBit-Spammia.


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July 11, 2016, 10:55:24 AM
 #44

I looked through his list earlier and didn't even notice my name their to be honest,  it's his choice if he's decided he's wanted to black list me though, i am a heavy Poster but that doesn't mean it's spam.
He seems to disagree. However, as we didn't launch the SMAS protocoll yet, I haven't had any look at the users from that list yet.
You speaking up in the manner you did made me ask for the reason, and frankly I think I found it there (yeah, you didn't see yourself on there, sure Wink ).

I don't think i will lose any sleep over it though since many people just completely ban anyone with a signature.  Oh well i will keep an eye on this and see what comes off it.
You're enrolled in one of the campaigns I don't expect to participate (alongside with secondstrade), so you probably can straightup ignore SMAS, as long as you plan on staying with YoBit.
Your avatar campaign however is managed by SFR10 if I recall, which would mean it's going to be affected by SMAS in the future.

We can agree to disagree on weather or not you think i saw my name on the list,  quite frankly i don't care.  As for srf10 that's up to him to decide if my posts are spam or not. So far as far as im aware ive not broken any  rules in his campaigns or yobits and already you've started on me just for voicing my opinion.  Feel free to nose about my posts and decide for yourself and good luck with your campaign.

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July 11, 2016, 11:20:57 AM
 #45

I think whoever all decides to front this campaign needs to watch how they go about it.  It sounds like some people will have too much power and that could soon go to their heads,  there's too many self rightchous people on here as it is.  If could soon become a witch hunt targeting anyone who the members decide they don't like for one reason or another.

You can't be judge jury and executioner,  there will need to be some sort of  voting system to prevent unfair negative trust and Abuse of the system.  I'm all for cleaning up the forums but it needs to be done right.

I for one think there has been enough watching (the spam). Only yesterday I told my friend Dank Frank that the spam is out of control on this forum. Most of us see it, and I've complained about it to a couple of cig managers which was obviously blown away or ignored.

I've been following Lutpin for a week now, reading through his trust and what he actually does/posts and tbh, doesn't seem as though he is self righteous or has an agenda other than cleaning the place to make the overall experience a lot better.

Concerning witch hunting ~ really? Judge, jury and executioner? (buthurt deja vu)

Good luck SMAS, if ever you need my help then let me know, I will donate my time to the cause for sure ..

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July 11, 2016, 12:43:50 PM
 #46

Even though some of you might question gianlucas posting efforts he still manages campaigns and deserves the chance to try n help this group. If nothing else he will learn from this experience and make himself a better manager.
Gianluca is way far worst than just a campaign manager.He has multiple alts,some of them had ban in the past,IIRC there was quite an evidence of Gianluca being an alt of a serial scammer.Also,he doesn't have a good command over English language,I doubt he can exactly make out shit posts from the good ones.Critics say,he only manages campaigns which are scammy in a way or had a history of scams.I doubt he would be a right candidate,in fact most of the scams after YoShit and Secondstrade comes from Gianluca's participants.Coinroll added to the later list.Not to mention but mexxer-2 is way better than any of the campaign managers I have seen,unfortunately he is not active anymore.Put some Respeck of his name. Grin  

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July 11, 2016, 01:04:35 PM
 #47

It's not a signature campaign but our LuckyBit Twitter campaign has a bonus if people wear our signature. There is no required amount of posts and I made a comment about spamming in the OP. We don't support useless spam posts so please let me know if there is anything else I can do to support you guys!

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July 11, 2016, 01:27:03 PM
 #48

We can agree to disagree on weather or not you think i saw my name on the list,  quite frankly i don't care.  As for srf10 that's up to him to decide if my posts are spam or not. So far as far as im aware ive not broken any  rules in his campaigns or yobits and already you've started on me just for voicing my opinion.  Feel free to nose about my posts and decide for yourself and good luck with your campaign.
Actually you have, remember I accepted you on trial due to one exact reason? And it seems the situation became even worst... You along another two members are going to be kicked out of the campaign (avatar) by tomorrow (FYI). It seems it would be best that I don't accept anyone on trial since more than half of them, seem to not care at instructions (at all). I think you should start to actually care, even if your in Yobit.

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July 11, 2016, 01:47:46 PM
 #49

We can agree to disagree on weather or not you think i saw my name on the list,  quite frankly i don't care.  As for srf10 that's up to him to decide if my posts are spam or not. So far as far as im aware ive not broken any  rules in his campaigns or yobits and already you've started on me just for voicing my opinion.  Feel free to nose about my posts and decide for yourself and good luck with your campaign.
Actually you have, remember I accepted you on trial due to one exact reason? And it seems the situation became even worst... You along another two members are going to be kicked out of the campaign (avatar) by tomorrow (FYI). It seems it would be best that I don't accept anyone on trial since more than half of them, seem to not care at instructions (at all). I think you should start to actually care, even if your in Yobit.

As you wish,  i wont argue with you but it's hard for me not to post more than the percentage you allow in 2 days when i have a high number of posts per day.   Its not like I've spammed one liners everywhere and im in topic as much as can be. 

It also would have been nice to get notified by pm rather than a public shaming.

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July 11, 2016, 09:10:02 PM
Merited by bambazamba (1)
 #50

In order to help reduce the amount of sig spam in the forum, allow me to share a few general guidelines to determine what I personally consider as sig spam.

1. Beating a dead horse - There are some threads wherein only some very specific replies can be considered helpful. Posting the same thing that the last ten people before you has posted does not benefit anyone (except the spammer padding up his/her post count). Read the OP, read the first couple of pages of the thread, and read the last 2 pages of the thread. Do at least that much before you post something which might have been just posted five minutes ago. "Extreme parroting" that can be avoided by simply reading the last ten posts is just a lengthened '+1' post with ignorance used as an excuse for plausible deniability.

2. Giving unsolicited opinion that helps no one - Not all threads require your opinion. If the OP just wants help with something specific, then don't post your opinion when it has no chance of helping the OP. Getting helpful advice is always a good thing, but someone who needs help fixing his/her corrupted wallet data file surely doesn't want to read about some online wallet that you use for some irrelevant reason. If it's tangential to a solution, then go ahead and share your opinion. Otherwise, find some relevant thread to share your opinion on.

3. Guessing needlessly - Sometimes, people have problems but have no idea what that actual problem is. Oftentimes, the problem isn't clear to everyone else as well. When that happens, people start guessing what the problem could be and how to solve it. That's acceptable since it advances the discussion, and would ultimately lead to a resolution. However, in cases where the problem has already been resolved, there is no need for you to post what you think the problem could be. No one needs you to guess why a transaction isn't being confirmed by the blockchain when people who actually know what they're talking about have already said that it's a double-spend. If you can't contribute anything to the topic, then just shut up (figuratively) and read quietly -- you might actually learn something.

4. Posting on spam threads - Yes, some threads are just meant to pad a spammer's post count. Threads that ask you how many Bitcoins you have, or what you would do if someone gave some random number of Bitcoins, or how many Bitcoin private keys you hold, or how long you have known about and/or used Bitcoins, et cetera, et cetera -- all of those are sig spam threads masquerading as discussions about Bitcoin. There is no intelligent discussion going on in there, and any intelligent discussion that does arise would most certainly be off-topic. If you want to participate in such a discussion, then either take off your signature or move the thread to Off-Topic. Posting in those threads is just as bad as posting "1st" as a comment. If you aren't getting paid for posts in the Off Topic subforum, then why do you think you should get paid for posts on threads like those?

5. Necroposting - A necropost is not a bump. If it was, then we would call it a bump and not a necropost. If a thread has been dead for a long time and there's no urgent need to revive it, then leave it the frickin' hell alone. If you aren't sure if it's an old thread, then check the date of the first post. Most of the time, just reading the OP would be enough to tell you that the thread is outdated and most likely dead. What exactly is so important that you can't check the date of the first post? Are you afraid that you won't have enough time to spam on your 10 other accounts if you take a minute to read the thread a bit?

6. Posting on a necroposted thread - This is not as bad as necroposting, but it is just as heinous if just reading the last page of the thread gives enough indication that the thread was only revived by a necroposter. Once again, read through the damn thread before posting. Even reading a page or two is better than just reading the thread title alone. If you're not reading a thread before posting, then you don't have the right to object when you get labeled as a spammer.


I hope this proposed collaboration finds some use in the personal guidelines that I shared.
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July 12, 2016, 07:05:13 AM
 #51

Not to mention but mexxer-2 is way better than any of the campaign managers I have seen,unfortunately he is not active anymore.Put some Respect of his name.
The guy that asked for my help the minute he became a campaign manager? Not going to badmouth him in some way, but come on Cheesy

Coinroll added to the later list.
Cointroll is currently the worst source of spam, right behind is sportsbet.io with their tipsters (Yes, I got one specific guy in mind).

Gianluca [...] has multiple alts,some of them had ban in the past,IIRC there was quite an evidence of Gianluca being an alt of a serial scammer.
Care to share? It's kinda off topic here, but that sounds like something I would want to have a look at.

Gianluca is way far worst than just a campaign manager.[...] I doubt he would be a right candidate.
There are passive and active spots in SMAS, we need as many campaigns as possible to join the passive group, so any support at all is appreciated.
Of course, that means they will have to take up some rules from us, that's how we have to work, in order to stay in the passive SMAS team.

If gianluca is fit for a spot in the active SMAS team we'll see and discuss at a later point (if they want to be part of it in the first place, that needs a lot of time and hassle).


I hope this proposed collaboration finds some use in the personal guidelines that I shared.
Interesting input, thanks for the share.
Especially #4 is something we have in mind to fight. That's one of the main attack vectors SMAS is going to use. You'll soon see how.


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July 12, 2016, 10:21:47 AM
 #52

Even though some of you might question gianlucas posting efforts he still manages campaigns and deserves the chance to try n help this group. If nothing else he will learn from this experience and make himself a better manager.
Gianluca is way far worst than just a campaign manager.He has multiple alts,some of them had ban in the past,IIRC there was quite an evidence of Gianluca being an alt of a serial scammer.Also,he doesn't have a good command over English language,I doubt he can exactly make out shit posts from the good ones.Critics say,he only manages campaigns which are scammy in a way or had a history of scams.I doubt he would be a right candidate,in fact most of the scams after YoShit and Secondstrade comes from Gianluca's participants.Coinroll added to the later list.Not to mention but mexxer-2 is way better than any of the campaign managers I have seen,unfortunately he is not active anymore.Put some Respeck of his name. Grin  

Isn't it so strange that I'managing campaign since 6 months if I were a scammer?

I've declared my alts account many and many time in the past, and as you can see, that account is inactive. So, what do you want?

This one, faince222, is used only for the emergency (as you can see, last time that I've used it was when I was banned). I've bought this account 2 years ago and Lutpin has entered into it to confirm that this account hasn't scammed everyone (under my management).

There were other 2 account, yrask and zoukenn that I've given to a bitcoiner friend of mine. As you see, that account is not used (inactive).

I don't remember about other account that I've had (think that I'm here since 3 years and I'm marked as trusted and reputable member of the forum).

Campaign that I manage is only scam?

Let me see for which brand I've worked in the past

-Sportsbet.io: Trusted and reputable sports book game, partner of Bitcasino.io
-Betking.io: Super-Trusted and reputable dice casinò (4000 BTC invested into it)
-Wirex-Ecoin.io Community Manager for Italy: One of the most biggest Bitcoin credit-card company
-HumanResources: Trusted, paid each users in time (and as me, also SFR10 has worked for him).
-Betcoin.TM: The only company which you can call scammy, but once I've started to work for them (end of December) that was a good site.
-Vegascasino.io: Great Brand, partner of Bitcasino.io

Many company has scammed during this years, and you can't say that managers that has managed campaign for them are also scammer.


Actually I'm managing one campaign:
- Cryptomixer.io - Trusted and reputable mixer service, with 2000 BTC of funds.

I'm not responsible if someone scam. Think about master-p or other super-trusted users of the forum.

I've never stolen 1 satoshi in this forum and I won't do it never.

You doubt? It isn't a problem for the community, I've proven that I'm honest for many times, and now I'm really tired to read the same shit many times.

So, why don't you choice to become a campaign manager?  Wink

EDIT: If you check sportsbet.io campaign, you'll discover that sportsbet.io site has given to me more than 5 BTC in funds for manage the campaign. If I were a scammer, that was really easy to scam them, don't you think? Cheesy

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July 12, 2016, 10:56:32 AM
 #53

~snip~
Geez, could you move it to a Reputation thread, in case you want to discuss this further, please?



A few days have passed since I had initally asked yahoo and SFR to join me in SMAS and I think it's time to present how I think we should kick off our efforts.
The following is my concept on how smas is going to operate and all other team members are encouraged to submit proposals aswell. Suggestions from the outside are obviously also welcome.
Anyhow, here's my draft.



SMAS will operate on a 2 team basis.

The first team will be the passive SMAS team. The passive team is made up from campaign managers and their campaigns in which they enforce the SMAS rules and the SMAS protocoll.
Ideally, the passive team will include all signature (and other advertising) campaigns running on this forum, aswell as their regarding managers.

The second team will be the active SMAS team. The active team is made up from the core of the SMAS effort. Members of the active team will work together in managing the SMAS lists.
Probably there will be a few less users in the active team, for the sake of this concept, let's say it consists of five users.
A non-manager could possibly join the active smas team, if there is enough support from the passive team for that user.


SMAS lists will be divided into 2 sections - Thread lists and user lists.

There will be 3 kinds of SMAS thread lists. The first is the watchlist. Any member of the active team can add threads to the watchlist. All other members should regularly check the watchlist and have a look at the threads on there. In order to move a thread from the watchlist to the greylist, another team member has to back up the one who initally added it to the list. If that's the case, the thread will be moved from the watchlist to the greylist. Now all active members should have a look at this thread and cast a vote. Any thread with more than 50% of votes being positive would move from the greylist to the blacklist. The other way around, if someone decides to change their vote, a thread can move down in the rankings of lists aswell. The greylist and the blacklist will be available to everyone.

Kinda in the same manner like the thread lists, there will be user lists. If an active member notices a user spamming, they would issue a SMAS Tag #3 (essentially a watch tag). There will be a list with users tagged that way available to all active members, so that they can check them and cast their vote aswell. If a second active member backs up that tag, it increases in it's rank. Users tagged by 2 active members will wear a SMAS Tag #2. These users should be closely watched by all active members, and if more than 50% consider them to be spamming, they get the highest tag, a SMAS Tag #1. The list of tag #2 and tag #1 users will be available to everyone.


Advertising campaigns will have to adopt to those lists in order to carry the SMAS seal.

A campaign (hence, the passive team members) can now opt in what depth they want to support SMAS and to what reach they want to allow SMAS taking into their rules.
At the very least, all users with a SMAS Tag #1 are excluded from joining any smas campaign & all posts in blacklisted threads are not going to be paid/counted for users in a smas campaign.
That's the lowest setting for a smas campaign and will be called a basic smas campaign.
If a campaign wants to enforce a more strict smas support, they would also opt to exclude the greylist and all SMAS Tag #2 users. We'd call this a full smas campaign.



That's the very basic idea on how I intended to run smas. If you've got any suggestions for improvements, any doubts, any counterproposals or just comments in a general way,
feel free to post them below.


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July 12, 2016, 11:17:45 AM
 #54

I would really what to hear theymoses  opinion on this mater.
Don't get me wrong, I'm suspicious by nature but this looks like a political powerplay
to take over the forums.
And where in general I do agree with fundamentals of this endeavour, there like I said, suspiciousness runs through my veins.

IMO 50% of votes may be to little, juries in criminal cases are generally, as a rule, required to reach a unanimous verdict, and juries in civil cases typically have to reach a majority on some level. Those rules would suit better in this case.


 
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July 12, 2016, 11:27:50 AM
 #55

I would really what to hear theymoses  opinion on this mater.
....


did you mean theymos whos admin on here? i'm 99% sure he will agree with this planning, becuase we can take down all spammers on this thread.
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July 12, 2016, 12:09:26 PM
 #56

I do have similar concerns about members trying to elevate themselves above other members by becoming the forum police but anyways a couple of questions if i may.

Why would a campaign want to have the smas seal of approval?  Would it bring any advantages?  Campaign managers have full power to deal with their campaign recruits anyway so is this just to split the load between more people?

And my next question is why not just make a list of smas #3 members straight off so if people see they are on that list they can take action to improve.  You've already publicly declared that I'm on list 3 so it's certainly nothing to do with privacy.


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July 12, 2016, 12:20:48 PM
 #57

this is a great idea! it's funny to see how "jobs" are evolving on bitcointalk, from sig campaigns to sig campaign management. good job, spammers beware.

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July 12, 2016, 12:35:01 PM
 #58

I would really what to hear theymoses  opinion on this mater.
He would probably try splitting the sea.
I'd be interested on theymos' take on the matter aswell, but generally, he doesn't comment on concepts like this.
There was some suggestion by OgNasty some time back about how to proceed with signatures, which got a rather long discussion afterwards.
At no point, theymos commented on the topic (IIRC, sorry should that be wrong).

Don't get me wrong, I'm suspicious by nature but this looks like a political powerplay to take over the forums.
You're right, this is the beer hall putsch all over again.
Dont get me wrong, but this has nothing to do with power, it's about making the forum a better place.

And where in general I do agree with fundamentals of this endeavour, there like I said, suspiciousness runs through my veins.
Trust me when I tell you, I want the best for this forum. I have no doubts about all other supporters of SMAS wanting the same.

IMO 50% of votes may be to little, juries in criminal cases are generally, as a rule, required to reach a unanimous verdict, and juries in civil cases typically have to reach a majority on some level. Those rules would suit better in this case.
We're not casting absolute votes like juries. They can be revoked as quickly as they get added.
If we're going for an unanimous concept, that would either slow us down by a great deal or require 24/7 efforts of all participating active team members.



I do have similar concerns about members trying to elevate themselves above other members by becoming the forum police.
If you've got what it takes, make a counter proposal, join SMAS and help us fight spam together.
If not, please don't blame us for trying to take action.

Why would a campaign want to have the smas seal of approval? Would it bring any advantages?
Most importantly, for their reputation. A few companies have a rather bad image around the forum due to their signature campaigns.
If your campaign supports SMAS, that's (supposed to be) a quality sign for the campaign.

Besides that, they get the work of some of the more reputable (currently active) managers around for free.
They avoid enrolling users which have proven themselves to be toxic to the forum and would be kicked sooner or later anyway and they avoid to pay for posts which don't bring them any revenue in the first place.

Campaign managers have full power to deal with their campaign recruits anyway so is this just to split the load between more people?
It's to work together across the different campaigns. As a unit, we can operate more effectively than a single manager can.
If we're abled to enforce rules and bans throughout all signature campaigns, we can hurt spammers, instead of just bumping them around them between one campaign and the next.

And my next question is why not just make a list of smas #3 members straight off so if people see they are on that list they can take action to improve.  You've already publicly declared that I'm on list 3 so it's certainly nothing to do with privacy.
Maybe not with your privacy (duh, we're talking about a rating based on public posts), but rather with the one who makes the initial tag.
notaek shared their list in this thread, and hence publicly tagged you as smas3, others might prefer to do this in an team-intern way.
Eventually, it's open to the one doing the tagging how they want to proceed with it.


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Gianluca95
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July 12, 2016, 01:00:22 PM
 #59

My purpose to fight the Spam consist in remove possibility to do a pay per post signature campaign. In this way, we'll limit spam so much, because a spammer/user will post as more as he want to be paid and this isn't a good thing for the forum.

So, if we want to cut Spam, we should ask to the signature campaign managers to switch from a pay per post campaign to a fixed campaign and, to reduce earnings, in this way users will not see it as a work but as a sort of incentive, nothing else. Keep in mind that this is a community, and in no one else forum there are signature campaign like this one.

Think about my sentence written in bold. This is an international forum and there are users that comes from any state of the world. Now, if a Serbian Users (middle monthly income of a Serbian: 250 eur) comes here and starts to post and spam daily, he will earn that amount in 2 weeks, that's why I think that many users sees signature campaign as a work, and not as incentive.

Then, I agree with everything that Lutpin has said. We've also to keep an eye on campaigns like FortuneJack.com that is full of alt-account.

So, we've to give a contribute and let grow up this campaigns (in terms of quality, so, owners will be forced to hire a signature campaign manager, or at least, to reduce number of post required/weekly).

- Yobit.net
- Coinroll.com
- Bitmixer.io
- Coinsbank.com

I'm not in agree with the Idea to use a BOT to check number of posts, in this way you can't see if a user is spammer.

PS: In my opinion, this forum has started to be spammed since Primedice.com campaign was started. You remember the famous (2.4 BTC/Month that each one can earn?  Grin). Once primedice campaign was opened there were many users that has posted something like 3000 messages in 1 month, and this isn't absolutely normal. So, trend has been started from that campaign, and now, forum is full of spam post.



helloeverybody
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July 12, 2016, 01:34:04 PM
Last edit: July 12, 2016, 02:21:43 PM by helloeverybody
 #60

Id support an idea similar to gianclua95 but at the moment that would be targeting all the lower paid campaigns that rely on more posts to make up the same amount of btc.  To make it fair for everyone (i know it probably wouldn't work)  but why not have a standard flat rate of pay across all smas campaigns.  Even if it was less than what people currently get paid atm if it was standardised then no one could complain since you get paid on wearing signature instead of having to make x amount of posts a day.  

Giamculas idea also stops any need for tier 1,2 and 3 smas because it's unlikely someone will spam just 30 posts a week or whatever is decided.  And those that just make 30 posts in one day and none the rest of the week could easily be targeted and either disciplined or kicked out.

I should also add although i disagree with it only for lending reasons (collateral).  Ban account selling and make all the smas campaigns full member + only.  I've owned my account from day one and would be gutted to get nuked for something stupid yet anyone who can buy an account can act without impunity since they can just get another.

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