Bitcoin Forum
December 14, 2017, 09:14:02 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: FinCEN addresses Bitcoin  (Read 28110 times)
Severian
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476



View Profile
March 18, 2013, 11:49:45 PM
 #1

FIN-2013-G001
Issued:    March 18, 2013
Subject:    Application of FinCEN's Regulations to Persons Administering, Exchanging, or Using Virtual Currencies
fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

Quote

c. De-Centralized Virtual Currencies

            A final type of convertible virtual currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their own computing or manufacturing effort.

            A person that creates units of this convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter. By contrast, a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.
1513242842
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513242842

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513242842
Reply with quote  #2

1513242842
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513242842
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513242842

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513242842
Reply with quote  #2

1513242842
Report to moderator
1513242842
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513242842

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513242842
Reply with quote  #2

1513242842
Report to moderator
1513242842
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513242842

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513242842
Reply with quote  #2

1513242842
Report to moderator
BitcoinINV
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448



View Profile
March 18, 2013, 11:53:17 PM
 #2

If I read that right about 5 or so business I can think of, are in violation of U.S laws.
If I am reading this correct anyone who sells bitcoins is now required to register? WOW
Glade I am covered  Wink

Vladimir
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812


-


View Profile
March 18, 2013, 11:54:15 PM
 #3

They say that if you mine Bitcoins and use them to buy stuff you are not "money transmitter".

If someone mines bitcoins and sells them for fiat directly (not via an excahnge) he or she is a "money transmitter".

If you run a Bitcoin exchange  with fiat component involved i.e. you trade BTCUSD, BTCEUR etc... (mtgox, bitstamp etc) then you are an exchange and a money transmitter.

If you run a Bitcoin exchange  without fiat component involved, for example, you trade only Bitcoins and Litecoins then you are not a money transmitter.




-
jimbobway
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1398



View Profile
March 18, 2013, 11:57:35 PM
 #4

What is funny is we don't "create" the virtual currency.  We mine it ("find it").  You can create fiat, but not bitcoins.  This means FinCen's statement on de-centralized currencies don't apply to bitcoin.

However, Ripple creates their own currencies so it applies to Ripple.
wormbog
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 561



View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:02:59 AM
 #5

In short - the US Treasury confirms that Bitcoin and its cousins are legitimate enough to require regulation. This is big news.
Severian
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476



View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:04:08 AM
 #6

If I read that right about 5 or so business I can think of, are in violation of U.S laws.

If I read it right, miners that sell to exchanges and others, all decentralized dealers and processors are subject to their expected claim of regulation - pretty much the entire bitcoin community minus just spenders/users.

What actually matters will be their first attempted enforcement of their claim.
Vladimir
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812


-


View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:06:52 AM
 #7

It can be interpreted differently, of course. But I think miners that sell bitcoins via exchanges are not subject to the regulation. The exchanges in this case would be acting as an intermediary that you farm out "money transmitter" functions to. Otherwise, you would become "money transmitter" every time you make international (with currency exchange) wire transfer via SWIFT network to a third party.



-
malevolent
can into space
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1876



View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:11:04 AM
 #8

Severian
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476



View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:12:27 AM
 #9

It can be interpreted differently

To be fair, they always make these "laws" a little fuzzy to give themselves as much wiggle room as possible and very little for us. I think we can agree that we've been noticed by Babylon-on-the-Potomac.
Maged
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260


View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:20:19 AM
 #10

What is funny is we don't "create" the virtual currency.  We mine it ("find it").  You can create fiat, but not bitcoins.  This means FinCen's statement on de-centralized currencies don't apply to bitcoin.
No, bitcoins are created, not "found". You have to be naive to think otherwise.

jgarzik
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484


View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:20:33 AM
 #11

tl;dr...  bitcoins are legal

Jeff Garzik, Bloq CEO, former bitcoin core dev team; opinions are my own.
Visit bloq.com / metronome.io
Donations / tip jar: 1BrufViLKnSWtuWGkryPsKsxonV2NQ7Tcj
d'aniel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 461


View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:22:27 AM
 #12

tl;dr...  bitcoins are legal

Yeah, I've been jumping with joy for the past 10 minutes Smiley
lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 544


View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:23:52 AM
 #13

Well, the way I read it:

Quote from: FinCEN
An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency.
emphasis added

While it is possible to "destroy" Bitcoin units, nobody has the authority to redeem it. So there is no such thing as "administrator" of Bitcoin.
hazek
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:24:11 AM
 #14

tl;dr...  bitcoins are legal


And you need a +$1million dollar worth money transmitter license if you want to mine and sell them for fiat  Roll Eyes

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
Vladimir
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812


-


View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:26:10 AM
 #15

tl;dr...  bitcoins are legal


And you need a +$1million dollar worth money transmitter license if you want to mine and sell them for fiat  Roll Eyes

Or you can do it for 6 month and then start a new company. Or you can live outside of USA (for now).


-
happywarrior
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12



View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:28:12 AM
 #16

tl;dr...  bitcoins are legal


Where's the upvote button?
niko
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742


There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.


View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:28:35 AM
 #17

tl;dr...  bitcoins are legal

Yeah, I've been jumping with joy for the past 10 minutes Smiley
I also see this as a positive development, especially in the long run.

They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
Technomage
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1848


Affordable Physical Bitcoins - Denarium.com


View Profile WWW
March 19, 2013, 12:29:02 AM
 #18

1 million? That is quite expensive. As far as I know that license in Finland costs like 5000 EUR, which our company is prepared to pay if this ruling spreads to Finland. Not sure how much these licenses cost for the whole EU though.

For mining though, I will venture to guess that people will simply not report any of it from now on. If the coins are mixed, there is no way to really know where the coins came from.

Prasos operates Denarium, Coinmotion and Bittiraha.fi. We have an equity offering now live! Check our pitch and invest at Invesdor.
gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
March 19, 2013, 12:30:29 AM
 #19

tl;dr...  bitcoins are legal

Yeah, I've been jumping with joy for the past 10 minutes Smiley
I also see this as a positive development, especially in the long run.

When was bitcoins ever illegal? LMAO I was jumping for joy over 2 years ago when I got into bitcoins, cause they were never illegal.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
Vladimir
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812


-


View Profile
March 19, 2013, 12:30:35 AM
 #20

1 million? That is quite expensive. As far as I know that license in Finland costs like 5000 EUR, which our company is prepared to pay if this ruling spreads to Finland. Not sure how much these licenses cost for the whole EU though.

For mining though, I will venture to guess that people will simply not report any of it from now on.

There is also the cost of compliance which is likely involved. And this I would guess means hiring a lawyer as a compliance officer.

-
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!