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Severian (OP)
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March 18, 2013, 11:49:45 PM |
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FIN-2013-G001 Issued: March 18, 2013 Subject: Application of FinCEN's Regulations to Persons Administering, Exchanging, or Using Virtual Currencies fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html
c. De-Centralized Virtual Currencies
A final type of convertible virtual currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their own computing or manufacturing effort.
A person that creates units of this convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter. By contrast, a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.
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BitcoinINV
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March 18, 2013, 11:53:17 PM |
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If I read that right about 5 or so business I can think of, are in violation of U.S laws. If I am reading this correct anyone who sells bitcoins is now required to register? WOW Glade I am covered  |
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Vladimir
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March 18, 2013, 11:54:15 PM |
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They say that if you mine Bitcoins and use them to buy stuff you are not "money transmitter".
If someone mines bitcoins and sells them for fiat directly (not via an excahnge) he or she is a "money transmitter".
If you run a Bitcoin exchange with fiat component involved i.e. you trade BTCUSD, BTCEUR etc... (mtgox, bitstamp etc) then you are an exchange and a money transmitter.
If you run a Bitcoin exchange without fiat component involved, for example, you trade only Bitcoins and Litecoins then you are not a money transmitter.
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jimbobway
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March 18, 2013, 11:57:35 PM |
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What is funny is we don't "create" the virtual currency. We mine it ("find it"). You can create fiat, but not bitcoins. This means FinCen's statement on de-centralized currencies don't apply to bitcoin.
However, Ripple creates their own currencies so it applies to Ripple.
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wormbog
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March 19, 2013, 12:02:59 AM |
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In short - the US Treasury confirms that Bitcoin and its cousins are legitimate enough to require regulation. This is big news.
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Severian (OP)
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March 19, 2013, 12:04:08 AM |
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If I read that right about 5 or so business I can think of, are in violation of U.S laws. If I read it right, miners that sell to exchanges and others, all decentralized dealers and processors are subject to their expected claim of regulation - pretty much the entire bitcoin community minus just spenders/users. What actually matters will be their first attempted enforcement of their claim. |
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Vladimir
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March 19, 2013, 12:06:52 AM
Last edit: March 19, 2013, 12:21:56 AM by Vladimir |
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It can be interpreted differently, of course. But I think miners that sell bitcoins via exchanges are not subject to the regulation. The exchanges in this case would be acting as an intermediary that you farm out "money transmitter" functions to. Otherwise, you would become "money transmitter" every time you make international (with currency exchange) wire transfer via SWIFT network to a third party.
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malevolent
can into space
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March 19, 2013, 12:11:04 AM |
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Signature space available for rent.
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Severian (OP)
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March 19, 2013, 12:12:27 AM |
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It can be interpreted differently To be fair, they always make these "laws" a little fuzzy to give themselves as much wiggle room as possible and very little for us. I think we can agree that we've been noticed by Babylon-on-the-Potomac. |
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Maged
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March 19, 2013, 12:20:19 AM |
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What is funny is we don't "create" the virtual currency. We mine it ("find it"). You can create fiat, but not bitcoins. This means FinCen's statement on de-centralized currencies don't apply to bitcoin.
No, bitcoins are created, not "found". You have to be naive to think otherwise. |
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jgarzik
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March 19, 2013, 12:20:33 AM |
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tl;dr... bitcoins are legal
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Jeff Garzik, Bloq CEO, former bitcoin core dev team; opinions are my own.
Visit bloq.com / metronome.io
Donations / tip jar: 1BrufViLKnSWtuWGkryPsKsxonV2NQ7Tcj
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d'aniel
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March 19, 2013, 12:22:27 AM |
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tl;dr... bitcoins are legal
Yeah, I've been jumping with joy for the past 10 minutes  |
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lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)
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March 19, 2013, 12:23:52 AM |
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Well, the way I read it: An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency. emphasis added While it is possible to "destroy" Bitcoin units, nobody has the authority to redeem it. So there is no such thing as "administrator" of Bitcoin. |
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hazek
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March 19, 2013, 12:24:11 AM |
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tl;dr... bitcoins are legal
And you need a +$1million dollar worth money transmitter license if you want to mine and sell them for fiat  |
My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)
If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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Vladimir
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March 19, 2013, 12:26:10 AM |
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tl;dr... bitcoins are legal
And you need a +$1million dollar worth money transmitter license if you want to mine and sell them for fiat Or you can do it for 6 month and then start a new company. Or you can live outside of USA (for now). |
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happywarrior
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March 19, 2013, 12:28:12 AM |
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tl;dr... bitcoins are legal
Where's the upvote button? |
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niko
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March 19, 2013, 12:28:35 AM |
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tl;dr... bitcoins are legal
Yeah, I've been jumping with joy for the past 10 minutes I also see this as a positive development, especially in the long run. |
They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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Technomage
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Affordable Physical Bitcoins - Denarium.com
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March 19, 2013, 12:29:02 AM |
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1 million? That is quite expensive. As far as I know that license in Finland costs like 5000 EUR, which our company is prepared to pay if this ruling spreads to Finland. Not sure how much these licenses cost for the whole EU though.
For mining though, I will venture to guess that people will simply not report any of it from now on. If the coins are mixed, there is no way to really know where the coins came from.
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Denarium closing sale discounts now up to 43%! Check out our products from here! |
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gweedo
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March 19, 2013, 12:30:29 AM |
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tl;dr... bitcoins are legal
Yeah, I've been jumping with joy for the past 10 minutes I also see this as a positive development, especially in the long run. When was bitcoins ever illegal? LMAO I was jumping for joy over 2 years ago when I got into bitcoins, cause they were never illegal. |
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Vladimir
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March 19, 2013, 12:30:35 AM |
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1 million? That is quite expensive. As far as I know that license in Finland costs like 5000 EUR, which our company is prepared to pay if this ruling spreads to Finland. Not sure how much these licenses cost for the whole EU though.
For mining though, I will venture to guess that people will simply not report any of it from now on.
There is also the cost of compliance which is likely involved. And this I would guess means hiring a lawyer as a compliance officer. |
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