Italian bank problems and bitcoin

[outatime1]

Bitcoin could be a safe store of value for countries with very high inflation. I think it is Argentina that has very high inflation and there are people that move their money into bitcoin to hold it's value. If bitcoin were more available to some of these countries, then it could prosper because it is not controlled by a government.

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[tabnloz]

...

This may have been mentioned already, but today only one bank failed the European "Stress Tests" results that came out today:

Monte dei Paschi di Siena, a bank well-known for being in big trouble.  It's also the oldest (surviving) bank in the world.

Neither Douche Bank nor other worthy candidates failed the Stress Tests. 

Make that of it what you will.  Note that they lie too.  Beware.

Unicredit shares have gone limit down ( - 7%) and been suspended, apparently a follow on from Fridays stress test result.


 

[Pab]

Italian banks problem is huge and it can begin huge financial and politic crisis
Due to last regulations ball-out is not permited,only ball in can be used.Ball in is collect money from banks shareholders and bonds holders,maybe great but bondhoders in italy are ordinary citzens,it is like savng account for them

[Doamader]

Well all know what happened at Greece, Portugal has some issue with a bank sell that old costumers lost their finances, and the new owner said it would credit all the money they had, but looks like hasnt happen. I dont like what happened to Greece or even Portugal, both are facing financial problems and adjustements, that are making the people search for best place then bank to apply their savings, and those is bitcoin for sure.

[Altynbekova]

The Italian bank crisis will only give europeans more money they need to spent to safe those banks.
The Citizens won't like it, but I don't think they will buy bitcoin instead.

[HeroCat]

If someone just write something in Wall Street Journal, it does not mean that something can happen. Italy has third largest economy in EU and eight largest economy in the world, in fact nothing can happen - bank market with so large economy is more or less stable. Look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy  

[OROBTC]

...

The problems with Italian banks continue today:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-01/italian-banks-crash-despite-all-clear-eu-stress-tests

It seems no one over in Europe believes this crap about their banks being healthy.

Bitcoin is now down (vs. Friday) after a period of price stability, so it looks like BTC is not benefiting from Italian bank troubles now.

[Carlsen]

I don't think the bank problem is really that big.
In the worst case, if the banks are shortly before a collaps, the european central bank together with the italian government will give them money and buy their garbage papers.
The ezb simply can not let it happen that a bank their goes bankrupt.
No matter what the treaties say.
So it will not have any big impact on bitcoin.

[yayayo]

I don't think the bank problem is really that big.
In the worst case, if the banks are shortly before a collaps, the european central bank together with the italian government will give them money and buy their garbage papers.
The ezb simply can not let it happen that a bank their goes bankrupt.
No matter what the treaties say.
So it will not have any big impact on bitcoin.

Your mixing three aspects here, but only give a rationale for one of them (#2):

1) The magnitude of the Italian banking problem,
2) the possibility of the ECB to refinance collapsing banks or buying junk bonds in case of a collapse,
3) the impact of an Italian banking collapse on Bitcoin

You indirectly assume that an uncontrolled (i.e. without ECB intervention) collapse of the Italian banks would have a significant effect on Bitcoin. However, what makes you think that the majority of the Italian / European people will first think of Bitcoin (and not gold, for example) if banks are collapsing?

The argument that certain changes in fiat valuation of Bitcoin were the result of real world events (Cyprus expropriation, Brexit) has been widely circulated. However no proof for these assumptions was ever given.

ya.ya.yo!

[tabnloz]

I don't think the bank problem is really that big.
In the worst case, if the banks are shortly before a collaps, the european central bank together with the italian government will give them money and buy their garbage papers.
The ezb simply can not let it happen that a bank their goes bankrupt.
No matter what the treaties say.
So it will not have any big impact on bitcoin.

While I agree that the impact on bitcoin is limited, it is still a large issue.

Problem being that the EU & its 'leadership' are fractured and the banking system is loaded to the gills with toxic debt, much like the rest of the world. (Debt is the reason for the decade long crisis. Global debt levels are so big even if every one had 100% of their income taxed, it would still take decades to repay).

Germany will never ever push for inflation after the Weimar experience. They are hardline and want weaker members to be prudent. Germany wants them to cede control of their economies to Brussels under a system where there is supposedly 1 Finance minister for the whole zone.

Others want intervention etc. Their political lives may depend on it. The populations of many weaker members want their own sovereignty and dont want unelected bureaucrats in Brussels dictating how they live. Two opposing ends of the spectrum.

The IMF was recently shown to have deliberately destroyed Greece to save the Euro & northern european banks. At some stage the weaker EU members will figure out they are better off out.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/28/imf-admits-disastrous-love-affair-with-euro-apologises-for-the-i/

[tabnloz]

A bit more doom porn from Zerohedge on Euro banks

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-02/european-bank-bloodbath-destroys-stress-test-credibility

edit / add :

BMPS -10%
POP EMILIA - 9.19%
BAPO - 7.11%
UNICREDIT - 6. 29% HALTED
MEDIOB - 6.18%
POP MILANO -6.78%
UBI - 4.97%

today.

[Pab]

A bit more doom porn from Zerohedge on Euro banks

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-02/european-bank-bloodbath-destroys-stress-test-credibility

edit / add :

BMPS -10%
POP EMILIA - 9.19%
BAPO - 7.11%
UNICREDIT - 6. 29% HALTED
MEDIOB - 6.18%
POP MILANO -6.78%
UBI - 4.97%

today.

and yesterday unicredit giant went down yet another 10%,it is effect of friday banks stress test
in ball-in depositors money can be used to fund banks,same like it was on Cyprus

[OROBTC]

A bit more doom porn from Zerohedge on Euro banks

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-02/european-bank-bloodbath-destroys-stress-test-credibility

edit / add :

BMPS -10%
POP EMILIA - 9.19%
BAPO - 7.11%
UNICREDIT - 6. 29% HALTED
MEDIOB - 6.18%
POP MILANO -6.78%
UBI - 4.97%

today.

and yesterday unicredit giant went down yet another 10%,it is effect of friday banks stress test
in ball-in depositors money can be used to fund banks,same like it was on Cyprus

It's even worse today, the European banks keep going down:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-03/european-banking-system-bloodbath-continues-post-stress-test

A sea of red the last 3 days...

A table from the article (European bank stock price losses in the past three days):



A highlight to note: Deutsche Bank is down 6.8% over the past three days.  Ouch, that's going to hurt.

[MingLee]

A bit more doom porn from Zerohedge on Euro banks

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-02/european-bank-bloodbath-destroys-stress-test-credibility

edit / add :

BMPS -10%
POP EMILIA - 9.19%
BAPO - 7.11%
UNICREDIT - 6. 29% HALTED
MEDIOB - 6.18%
POP MILANO -6.78%
UBI - 4.97%

today.

and yesterday unicredit giant went down yet another 10%,it is effect of friday banks stress test
in ball-in depositors money can be used to fund banks,same like it was on Cyprus

It's even worse today, the European banks keep going down:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-03/european-banking-system-bloodbath-continues-post-stress-test

A sea of red the last 3 days...

A table from the article (European bank stock price losses in the past three days):



A highlight to note: Deutsche Bank is down 6.8% over the past three days.  Ouch, that's going to hurt.

Most things have been in the red lately; oil, a majority of stocks, Bitcoin, some currencies, a lot of things are going downwards. I think we're on the cusp of a recession, if we aren't already in one, and chances are it is going to be far worse than 2008. We might see a really brutal recession as well, depending on how quickly and how hard it goes down.

[crockoo]

A bit more doom porn from Zerohedge on Euro banks

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-02/european-bank-bloodbath-destroys-stress-test-credibility

edit / add :

BMPS -10%
POP EMILIA - 9.19%
BAPO - 7.11%
UNICREDIT - 6. 29% HALTED
MEDIOB - 6.18%
POP MILANO -6.78%
UBI - 4.97%

today.

and yesterday unicredit giant went down yet another 10%,it is effect of friday banks stress test
in ball-in depositors money can be used to fund banks,same like it was on Cyprus

It's even worse today, the European banks keep going down:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-03/european-banking-system-bloodbath-continues-post-stress-test

A sea of red the last 3 days...

A table from the article (European bank stock price losses in the past three days):



A highlight to note: Deutsche Bank is down 6.8% over the past three days.  Ouch, that's going to hurt.

Most things have been in the red lately; oil, a majority of stocks, Bitcoin, some currencies, a lot of things are going downwards. I think we're on the cusp of a recession, if we aren't already in one, and chances are it is going to be far worse than 2008. We might see a really brutal recession as well, depending on how quickly and how hard it goes down.

Falling oil prices and bitcoin are the reasons. Because of problems with Russian world leaders have agreed on the price of oil falls, and the hacker attack on one of the exchanges and the theft of her large number of bitcoin cryptocurrency led to a drop in the market.

[tyz]

-snip-
In the worst case, if the banks are shortly before a collaps, the european central bank together with the italian government will give them money and buy their garbage papers.
-snip-

This will not happen. Otherwise the European union will collapse. In the offical figures, Italian banks have bad credits of more than 360 bln Euros.
When the ECB bails out the banks, it risks the money from all Europeans (again). This will strengthen the rising right-wing and radical parties all over Europe and there will be a lot of elections this and next year (Germany, France for instance).