[ANN] ICONOMI - Fund Management Platform

[kalpit]

Who do you think is paying for Iconomi employee salaries?  Profit = Revenue - Expenses. 30 employees averaging $100K USD fully loaded is $3M. Nevermind other expenses related to running the platform. Just saying.

For that please first read faq art Iconomi site.
It says,

How much is distributed as dividends to ICN token holders?

ICN token holders receive everything, after the operational costs of the service operator have been subtracted. Please note that we will be using the capital raised during the ICO for coverage of operational costs and will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over.

See, this is why elsewhere I have asked about "Class A" and "Class B" shares to split up ICNP profits among original ICO participants and later invited investors.  Say 100 invited people contribute the second $5M.  Why is it fair for the "$4M chunk of profit" above to be divided among ALL 3500 ICO PARTICIPANTS instead of the 100 INVITED PEOPLE WHO CONTRIBUTED THE SECOND BATCH OF ICNP MONEY?

I would argue that in this example, if there is $10M of profit, it should be split into two profit chunks of $5M each, all ICO participants should share 20% of the first $5M chunk BECAUSE THAT WAS THE DEAL THAT WAS AGREED TO BY ALL PARTIES, and that some proportion of the second $5M  profit chunk should be split ONLY among the invited 100 contributors.  What that proportion is has yet to be defined....

So, where would the 80% of the first chunk go.
I believe, we would be receiving 20% as fees from profit made by invited investors.

By the way, I don't remember any official statement about that 20% share get.
Please share the link if you know.


For me, it has become confusing now. I'd ask Iconomi team to tell us more about performance fund profit sharing.

[housebtc]

....I will definitely need to have a few btc set aside for when the performance fund is offered to ICO participants."

that is if they will not reach the limit. there are lots of investors waiting to get into it, wanting to be a big player. If I have the btc, i'd be the first even if not invited. but just in case, its a good thing to have btc ready.

Can somebody please explain to me how profits from an expanding ICNP cash pool is going to work?  At the end of ICO, all the BTC above 10K BTC was allocated to the ICNP, about $4.6M total.  OK.  In the near future, there will be weekly dividends distributed among ICN token holders, and those dividends will represent 20% of the profits made by the ICNP for that week. OK.  So far so good.

Now 'let us pretend" about the future.   ICONOMI says they will send out invitations to ICO participants to "invest" more money into the ICNP.   In round numbers, assume that BTC appreciation has turned the original ICNP pool of $4.6M into a nice, round, even $5M today.  Let's also pretend that ICNP accepts / gets an additional $5M from ICO participants to increase the ICNP cash pool.   The ICNP now has $10M, half from the ICO, half from invited participation.

So now it's Jan 2017 and the ICNP makes some profit.  How does that profit flow down to those who have invested in the ICNP?   20% of the profit goes to ICN token holders.  This 20% share going to all ICN holders is a larger amount due to contributions of the invitees than it would have been without them - is that fair?  Regardless, now we've still got 80% of the profit we have to allocate.  How much of that goes back to invited participants?  And how?  Can the invited participants "give" their share in this profit to somebody else?  If so, how?  By a new "ICNP" token?

Just sharing my writeup here that I am submitting for tomorrow's Reddit AMA...

ICNP will have it's own token (as far as I remember non-tradable). Final numbers of the fund are not yet released, they should be published before the invites are sent.
I believe 80% of the profits will go to ICNP direct investors, and 20% to ICN holders.

This 20% share going to all ICN holders is a larger amount due to contributions of the invitees than it would have been without them - is that fair?

I think it is a fair game. 20% is from realized profits, if ICNP has more funds - it is better for ICN holders. Just like ICNX (2% passive fees) - the more money is in the fund, the bigger the profit/ICN is.

ICNP will have it's own value for each token after invested assets become liquid

from your post on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ICONOMI/comments/5bfdtw/icnp_questions/

I would like to suggest come corrections to it.
Suppose,  $ 5 million from Ico money is invested in performance fund and the rest 5 million comes from investors.
Suppose , the profit from performance fund is $ 10 million.
So, icn holders would get 50 + (50 * 20%) = 60%
The five million dollars belong to us, which implies we ask have together invested in performance fund five million dollars. So this means icn holders get 50 % of profit
The rest five million dollars which come from the investors, the investors 80% of profit from that five million only. So icn holders get another 50% * 20% of the profit.

This sums up 60% .

This is what I've understood. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I didn't get that parf
"icn holders would get 50 + (50 * 20%) = 60%"
If and when Iconomi will send invitations, it means that they need more money for the performance.fund
Once that fresh capital enters the fund, it "gets mixed" with the pre-seeded ICO money, meaning it doesn"t matter from which money the investments are made.
So if the performance.fund has a policy of 20% profit to be paid to share holders, it means that the remaining 80% will be paid to icnp token holders.. After all, icnp token holders bought-in directly into this fund (that is why icnp tokens won't be tradable).

Think it this way,
Iconomi itself has invested $ 5 million and another$ 5 millions get from other investors the performance fund.
If there is a profit of $10 million. $8 million goes to its investors and $2 million to ico investors.
Out of that $ 8 million , Iconomi (as it has invested half the total capital, gets half of the profit which the investors get in total ) gets $ 4 million. We own profit Iconomi. So this $ 4 million belongs to ico investors.

So, In total we get  $ 6 million (which is 60% of total profit).

Edit: I will confirm this thing from Devs AMA.

See, this is why elsewhere I have asked about "Class A" and "Class B" shares to split up ICNP profits among original ICO participants and later invited investors.  Say 100 invited people contribute the second $5M.  Why is it fair for the "$4M chunk of profit" above to be divided among ALL 3500 ICO PARTICIPANTS instead of the 100 INVITED PEOPLE WHO CONTRIBUTED THE SECOND BATCH OF ICNP MONEY?

I would argue that in this example, if there is $10M of profit, it should be split into two profit chunks of $5M each, all ICO participants should share 20% of the first $5M chunk BECAUSE THAT WAS THE DEAL THAT WAS AGREED TO BY ALL PARTIES, and that some proportion of the second $5M  profit chunk should be split ONLY among the invited 100 contributors.  What that proportion is has yet to be defined....

The initial model was to give ICN holders 20% of the profit for ICP, but everything changed when ICO was oversubscribed to and now, ICN holders now have $5 million investment in ICP fund which is great for us ICN holders because not everyone of us will be invited to participate in ICP fund. I guess ICONOMI team will elaborate more on new profit sharing model in today's AMA

[moroseneng]

any news on exchanges other than kraken?

I hear rumors that Mt. Gox is opening back up tomorrow to offer ICN.

where did u hear it? from the voices in your head? good news for u😀

Loll😁 icn will be on cryptsy😁

[stormia]

any news on exchanges other than kraken?

I hear rumors that Mt. Gox is opening back up tomorrow to offer ICN.

where did u hear it? from the voices in your head? good news for u😀

Loll😁 icn will be on cryptsy😁

Mintpal 

[arcanaaerobics]

Good to ear that ICONOMI will start to invest on Golem project...

We already can see the price of tokens going up!

Can't wait for the next investments.

[moroseneng]

Good to ear that ICONOMI will start to invest on Golem project...

We already can see the price of tokens going up!

Can't wait for the next investments.

Btw, AMA is alive?

[electronicash]

Good to ear that ICONOMI will start to invest on Golem project...

We already can see the price of tokens going up!

Can't wait for the next investments.

Maybe they'd be buying WAVES later? of course I'm a supporter but yeah could it be possible? And maybe ICN would also try Stratis. The supporters are pretty combatant this time.

[andraxyz]

Good to ear that ICONOMI will start to invest on Golem project...

We already can see the price of tokens going up!

Can't wait for the next investments.

Btw, AMA is alive?

Not for 7 and a half more hours i think.

[Daparski]

....I will definitely need to have a few btc set aside for when the performance fund is offered to ICO participants."

that is if they will not reach the limit. there are lots of investors waiting to get into it, wanting to be a big player. If I have the btc, i'd be the first even if not invited. but just in case, its a good thing to have btc ready.

Can somebody please explain to me how profits from an expanding ICNP cash pool is going to work?  At the end of ICO, all the BTC above 10K BTC was allocated to the ICNP, about $4.6M total.  OK.  In the near future, there will be weekly dividends distributed among ICN token holders, and those dividends will represent 20% of the profits made by the ICNP for that week. OK.  So far so good.

Now 'let us pretend" about the future.   ICONOMI says they will send out invitations to ICO participants to "invest" more money into the ICNP.   In round numbers, assume that BTC appreciation has turned the original ICNP pool of $4.6M into a nice, round, even $5M today.  Let's also pretend that ICNP accepts / gets an additional $5M from ICO participants to increase the ICNP cash pool.   The ICNP now has $10M, half from the ICO, half from invited participation.

So now it's Jan 2017 and the ICNP makes some profit.  How does that profit flow down to those who have invested in the ICNP?   20% of the profit goes to ICN token holders.  This 20% share going to all ICN holders is a larger amount due to contributions of the invitees than it would have been without them - is that fair?  Regardless, now we've still got 80% of the profit we have to allocate.  How much of that goes back to invited participants?  And how?  Can the invited participants "give" their share in this profit to somebody else?  If so, how?  By a new "ICNP" token?

Just sharing my writeup here that I am submitting for tomorrow's Reddit AMA...

ICNP will have it's own token (as far as I remember non-tradable). Final numbers of the fund are not yet released, they should be published before the invites are sent.
I believe 80% of the profits will go to ICNP direct investors, and 20% to ICN holders.

This 20% share going to all ICN holders is a larger amount due to contributions of the invitees than it would have been without them - is that fair?

I think it is a fair game. 20% is from realized profits, if ICNP has more funds - it is better for ICN holders. Just like ICNX (2% passive fees) - the more money is in the fund, the bigger the profit/ICN is.

ICNP will have it's own value for each token after invested assets become liquid

from your post on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ICONOMI/comments/5bfdtw/icnp_questions/

I would like to suggest come corrections to it.
Suppose,  $ 5 million from Ico money is invested in performance fund and the rest 5 million comes from investors.
Suppose , the profit from performance fund is $ 10 million.
So, icn holders would get 50 + (50 * 20%) = 60%
The five million dollars belong to us, which implies we ask have together invested in performance fund five million dollars. So this means icn holders get 50 % of profit
The rest five million dollars which come from the investors, the investors 80% of profit from that five million only. So icn holders get another 50% * 20% of the profit.

This sums up 60% .

This is what I've understood. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I didn't get that parf
"icn holders would get 50 + (50 * 20%) = 60%"
If and when Iconomi will send invitations, it means that they need more money for the performance.fund
Once that fresh capital enters the fund, it "gets mixed" with the pre-seeded ICO money, meaning it doesn"t matter from which money the investments are made.
So if the performance.fund has a policy of 20% profit to be paid to share holders, it means that the remaining 80% will be paid to icnp token holders.. After all, icnp token holders bought-in directly into this fund (that is why icnp tokens won't be tradable).

Think it this way,
Iconomi itself has invested $ 5 million and another$ 5 millions get from other investors the performance fund.
If there is a profit of $10 million. $8 million goes to its investors and $2 million to ico investors.
Out of that $ 8 million , Iconomi (as it has invested half the total capital, gets half of the profit which the investors get in total ) gets $ 4 million. We own profit Iconomi. So this $ 4 million belongs to ico investors.

So, In total we get  $ 6 million (which is 60% of total profit).

Edit: I will confirm this thing from Devs AMA.

See, this is why elsewhere I have asked about "Class A" and "Class B" shares to split up ICNP profits among original ICO participants and later invited investors.  Say 100 invited people contribute the second $5M.  Why is it fair for the "$4M chunk of profit" above to be divided among ALL 3500 ICO PARTICIPANTS instead of the 100 INVITED PEOPLE WHO CONTRIBUTED THE SECOND BATCH OF ICNP MONEY?

I would argue that in this example, if there is $10M of profit, it should be split into two profit chunks of $5M each, all ICO participants should share 20% of the first $5M chunk BECAUSE THAT WAS THE DEAL THAT WAS AGREED TO BY ALL PARTIES, and that some proportion of the second $5M  profit chunk should be split ONLY among the invited 100 contributors.  What that proportion is has yet to be defined....

They will issue ICNP tokens to direct investors. If you hold ICN tokens, but did not get icnp invite, or did not invest you won't have icnp tokens.
Let's break the above example of 10M usd profit into 2 scenarios - before second round investment and after.
Before: There are 2 eligible parties for the profits - ICN holders (20%) and platform opeator (80%).
After: There are 3 eliggible parties for profits - ICN holders (20%); platform operator (40%); round B investors (40%). The 40% or "round B" investors represent an equal investment in the fund (5M usd in the above example). If round B investments will be double the original fund (10M usd) the ratio should be 20% ICN, 20% Iconomi and 60% direct investors.

Does it make sense?

[5thangel]

Nice to see plenty of trolls talk positive about iconimi...WAsn't like this 30 pages ago ...   

[bitarri]

any news on exchanges other than kraken?

I hear rumors that Mt. Gox is opening back up tomorrow to offer ICN.

where did u hear it? from the voices in your head? good news for u😀

Loll😁 icn will be on cryptsy😁

Mintpal 

CoinMarket.io 

[electronicash]

Can ICNP be traded on exchanges or can it be transferred to anyone like it also have a wallet to which profits will also be distributed?
I may really not have the chance to take part of it as I'm no investor.

[LeonardoDaVinci]

any news on exchanges other than kraken?

I hear rumors that Mt. Gox is opening back up tomorrow to offer ICN.

where did u hear it? from the voices in your head? good news for u😀

Loll😁 icn will be on cryptsy😁

Mintpal 

CoinMarket.io 

CryptoRush 

[Daparski]

any news on exchanges other than kraken?

I hear rumors that Mt. Gox is opening back up tomorrow to offer ICN.

where did u hear it? from the voices in your head? good news for u😀

Loll😁 icn will be on cryptsy😁

Mintpal 

CoinMarket.io 

CryptoRush 

NYSE

[Daparski]

Kraken has connections with Wall Street and Bloomberg:
http://blog.kraken.com/post/111931691762/kraken-listed-on-bloomberg

Once Wall Street folks find out about ICONOMI, this baby can soar above $10-$20.

It only takes one Bloomberg interview with ICONOMI team 

That is FCKN great news! It will turn out to be a key factor when OFM will be up.
Another proof that Iconomi did well to start with Kraken!

[Daparski]

That red mountain on Kraken keeps growing...

[ShooterXD]

I think Ark is the next project to ICONOMI invest. Lets see, in my mind this is a good choice.

[Wall-Street]

any news on exchanges other than kraken?

I hear rumors that Mt. Gox is opening back up tomorrow to offer ICN.

where did u hear it? from the voices in your head? good news for u😀

Loll😁 icn will be on cryptsy😁

Mintpal  

CoinMarket.io  

CryptoRush  

NYSE

Reporter lady: Mr. Kramer, what do you think about ICN ?

[LeonardoDaVinci]

I think Ark is the next project to ICONOMI invest. Lets see, in my mind this is a good choice.

If Lisk couldn't compete with ETH, I highly doubt ARK would go far.

Unless ICONOMI devs have more insider info on Ark, and got in their 1st week of ICO to get that 125% bonus, they should just stay away from ARK.

[Thereisnospoon]

It may sound silly but how safely to withdraw tokens fro my ICO account? Do I need to have a full node ETH wallet?

https://medium.com/iconominet/how-to-add-iconomi-t-icn-apptokens-to-ethereum-wallet-f15f637f8db8#.c3vneidh0
or
https://medium.com/iconominet/how-to-add-iconomi-t-icn-apptokens-to-myetherwallet-983c9675770d#.3bcnz3ryx

Thanks!