[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[Vbs]

Only 25 million ActiveMining shares will be released, but over 40 million AMC shares are currently released. How can a 1 for 1 swap be achieved with these numbers?

So far, the last number I looked at said that there were only 6 million shares that had been sold.  In this case, a 1:1 swap is very much doable.

This.

[1715264635]

1715264635

[FloatesMcgoates]

Only 25 million ActiveMining shares will be released, but over 40 million AMC shares are currently released. How can a 1 for 1 swap be achieved with these numbers?

So far, the last number I looked at said that there were only 6 million shares that had been sold.  In this case, a 1:1 swap is very much doable.

Alright, so far.


But the problem still remains, no?

Edit: Ken will have to implement some sort of cap or date expiration on the 1:1 swap in order for it to make any mathematical sense with the outstanding share disparity.

[Streets 2.0]

Only 25 million ActiveMining shares will be released, but over 40 million AMC shares are currently released. How can a 1 for 1 swap be achieved with these numbers?

So far, the last number I looked at said that there were only 6 million shares that had been sold.  In this case, a 1:1 swap is very much doable.

This.

Looking at ButFunder, the asset page for AMC says 40 million issued, dumping the data from the Asset List on ButFunder into Excel and only adding up the AMC total shares, it is indeed 40 million shares.  However in Ken's FAQ on Butfunder, he states 20 million shares are held by AMC growth fund, so if this calculates properly, it is still at 20,511,000 shares issued across both exchanges?

[EskimoBob]

....
Well, since bitfunder does it over all the issued shares it will be over 10 million, however the dividends from the unsold shares will go into the pot for the next weeks dividends.

WHAT?! You can not pay dividends to treasury stock. Think about it for a second. This is beyond absurd if bitfunder allows this

If you have issued 1 000 shares (Shares Total in btf speak) and 100 are outstanding (not held by issuer aka issued and sold to shareholders "Shares Issued" in btf speak), profits will be divided among 100 shares and not by 1 000 shares. 900 shares are treasury stock and those have no right for dividends, voting or for anything else.

Issued shares - shares outstanding = treasury stock


If a Co buys  back its own shares for whatever reason (usually undervalued on the market and Co has huge amounts of cash laying around) those shares become automatically treasury stock.

[Vbs]

Looking at ButFunder, the asset page for AMC says 40 million issued, dumping the data from the Asset List on ButFunder into Excel and only adding up the AMC total shares, it is indeed 40 million shares.  However in Ken's FAQ on Butfunder, he states 20 million shares are held by AMC growth fund, so if this calculates properly, it is still at 20,511,000 shares issued across both exchanges?

There are ~6M in the hands of AMC shareholders, ~14M in the hands of AMC yet to be sold, and ~20M assigned to the growth fund, for the total of ~40M.

The sum of both AMC ask walls in BF and BTC-TC is 10M shares, which is the cap of maximum to be sold, still allowing for a 1:1 tender for AM shares.

[Vbs]

....
Well, since bitfunder does it over all the issued shares it will be over 10 million, however the dividends from the unsold shares will go into the pot for the next weeks dividends.

WHAT?! You can not pay dividends to treasury stock. Think about it for a second. This is beyond absurd if bitfunder allows this

If you have issued 1 000 shares (Shares Total in btf speak) and 100 are outstanding (not held by issuer aka issued and sold to shareholders "Shares Issued" in btf speak), profits will be divided among 100 shares and not by 1 000 shares. 900 shares are treasury stock and those have no right for dividends, voting or for anything else.

Issued shares - shares outstanding = treasury stock


If a Co buys  back its own shares for whatever reason (usually undervalued on the market and Co has huge amounts of cash laying around) those shares become automatically treasury stock.

Yes, it is absurd that BF doesn't has this better implemented, like BTC-TC!

[Streets 2.0]

Looking at ButFunder, the asset page for AMC says 40 million issued, dumping the data from the Asset List on ButFunder into Excel and only adding up the AMC total shares, it is indeed 40 million shares.  However in Ken's FAQ on Butfunder, he states 20 million shares are held by AMC growth fund, so if this calculates properly, it is still at 20,511,000 shares issued across both exchanges?

There are ~6M in the hands of AMC shareholders, ~14M in the hands of AMC yet to be sold, and ~20M assigned to the growth fund, for the total of ~40M.

The sum of both AMC ask walls in BF and BTC-TC is 10M shares, which is the cap of maximum to be sold, still allowing for a 1:1 tender for AM shares.

Ahh thanks for clearing that up for me

[FloatesMcgoates]

Looking at ButFunder, the asset page for AMC says 40 million issued, dumping the data from the Asset List on ButFunder into Excel and only adding up the AMC total shares, it is indeed 40 million shares.  However in Ken's FAQ on Butfunder, he states 20 million shares are held by AMC growth fund, so if this calculates properly, it is still at 20,511,000 shares issued across both exchanges?

There are ~6M in the hands of AMC shareholders, ~14M in the hands of AMC yet to be sold, and ~20M assigned to the growth fund, for the total of ~40M.

The sum of both AMC ask walls in BF and BTC-TC is 10M shares, which is the cap of maximum to be sold, still allowing for a 1:1 tender for AM shares.

Thanks, that makes sense.

Quick question, are you officially affiliated with AMC in some fashion?

[Vbs]

Thanks, that makes sense.

Quick question, are you officially affiliated with AMC in some fashion?

No, but I'm following this basically from day #1 and usually talk to Ken on IRC in #bitfunder (freenode), he goes by the nick "AMC__".

Either use an IRC client (I like HexChat), or go to https://bitfunder.com/help and press the "IRC Chat" tab.

[EskimoBob]

....
Well, since bitfunder does it over all the issued shares it will be over 10 million, however the dividends from the unsold shares will go into the pot for the next weeks dividends.

WHAT?! You can not pay dividends to treasury stock. Think about it for a second. This is beyond absurd if bitfunder allows this

If you have issued 1 000 shares (Shares Total in btf speak) and 100 are outstanding (not held by issuer aka issued and sold to shareholders "Shares Issued" in btf speak), profits will be divided among 100 shares and not by 1 000 shares. 900 shares are treasury stock and those have no right for dividends, voting or for anything else.

Issued shares - shares outstanding = treasury stock


If a Co buys  back its own shares for whatever reason (usually undervalued on the market and Co has huge amounts of cash laying around) those shares become automatically treasury stock.

Yes, it is absurd that BF doesn't has this better implemented, like BTC-TC!

There is no "better" but only right or wrong. BTC-TC and LitecoinGlobal has it right, bitfunder has it wrong.

If any of you have hard time understanding why this is wrong, think about this situation:

Fabulous Co has 100 shares issued and 50 outstanding. Co earn 10 as profit and divide it up by 100 - 0.1 per share (yes, this is WRONG).
What happens now is that Co treasury stock receives 50x0.1 and shareholders receive 50x0.1.
Guess what, Co has 5 as dividend income that must be shared between shareholders.
So here we go again: 5/100 = 0.05 and 50*0.05 to shareholders and 50*0.05 gets sent back to Co and so and on and on and on....

Because you use broken system, it will take you close to forever to distribute all the profits to shareholders.

[kslaughter]

....
Well, since bitfunder does it over all the issued shares it will be over 10 million, however the dividends from the unsold shares will go into the pot for the next weeks dividends.

WHAT?! You can not pay dividends to treasury stock. Think about it for a second. This is beyond absurd if bitfunder allows this

If you have issued 1 000 shares (Shares Total in btf speak) and 100 are outstanding (not held by issuer aka issued and sold to shareholders "Shares Issued" in btf speak), profits will be divided among 100 shares and not by 1 000 shares. 900 shares are treasury stock and those have no right for dividends, voting or for anything else.

Issued shares - shares outstanding = treasury stock


If a Co buys  back its own shares for whatever reason (usually undervalued on the market and Co has huge amounts of cash laying around) those shares become automatically treasury stock.

This is the virtual world not the real world.

[EskimoBob]

....
Well, since bitfunder does it over all the issued shares it will be over 10 million, however the dividends from the unsold shares will go into the pot for the next weeks dividends.

WHAT?! You can not pay dividends to treasury stock. Think about it for a second. This is beyond absurd if bitfunder allows this

If you have issued 1 000 shares (Shares Total in btf speak) and 100 are outstanding (not held by issuer aka issued and sold to shareholders "Shares Issued" in btf speak), profits will be divided among 100 shares and not by 1 000 shares. 900 shares are treasury stock and those have no right for dividends, voting or for anything else.

Issued shares - shares outstanding = treasury stock


If a Co buys  back its own shares for whatever reason (usually undervalued on the market and Co has huge amounts of cash laying around) those shares become automatically treasury stock.

This is the virtual world not the real world.

Really? And how is this making it OK to fuck up a concept as simple as treasury stock?
Paying divs to treasury stock is like robbing from shareholders, but then smiling and "giving" it back via perpetual loop of diminishing payout.

[lolstate]

....
Well, since bitfunder does it over all the issued shares it will be over 10 million, however the dividends from the unsold shares will go into the pot for the next weeks dividends.

WHAT?! You can not pay dividends to treasury stock. Think about it for a second. This is beyond absurd if bitfunder allows this

If you have issued 1 000 shares (Shares Total in btf speak) and 100 are outstanding (not held by issuer aka issued and sold to shareholders "Shares Issued" in btf speak), profits will be divided among 100 shares and not by 1 000 shares. 900 shares are treasury stock and those have no right for dividends, voting or for anything else.

Issued shares - shares outstanding = treasury stock


If a Co buys  back its own shares for whatever reason (usually undervalued on the market and Co has huge amounts of cash laying around) those shares become automatically treasury stock.

This is the virtual world not the real world.

Really? And how is this making it OK to fuck up a concept as simple as treasury stock?
Paying divs to treasury stock is like robbing from shareholders, but then smiling and "giving" it back via perpetual loop of diminishing payout.

I'm guessing you'll be transferring your shares from BitFunder to btct.co, as I plan to? Problem solved! 

[auto2nr1]

....
Well, since bitfunder does it over all the issued shares it will be over 10 million, however the dividends from the unsold shares will go into the pot for the next weeks dividends.

WHAT?! You can not pay dividends to treasury stock. Think about it for a second. This is beyond absurd if bitfunder allows this

If you have issued 1 000 shares (Shares Total in btf speak) and 100 are outstanding (not held by issuer aka issued and sold to shareholders "Shares Issued" in btf speak), profits will be divided among 100 shares and not by 1 000 shares. 900 shares are treasury stock and those have no right for dividends, voting or for anything else.

Issued shares - shares outstanding = treasury stock


If a Co buys  back its own shares for whatever reason (usually undervalued on the market and Co has huge amounts of cash laying around) those shares become automatically treasury stock.

This is the virtual world not the real world.

Really? And how is this making it OK to fuck up a concept as simple as treasury stock?
Paying divs to treasury stock is like robbing from shareholders, but then smiling and "giving" it back via perpetual loop of diminishing payout.

+1

We need to get BitFunder to fix this ASAP. I have sent them a message via PM and through BitFunder. Hopefully they will address this issue. Shares that have not been sold should not receive dividends. This is unfair to the shareholders. Also can we touch on the subject of shareholder voting rights and how Ken will go about getting the board of directors together?

[kslaughter]

Change to get listed on Bitfunder.

Introduction
ActiveMining (ATM) is a virtual identity totally owned by the Active Mining Corporation (Belize) that represents both itself and its profits. ActiveMining's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC).

Currently, it is expected for interested ActiveMining's public investors to hold 10,000,000 ATM shares (40% of the profits), while Active Mining Corporation owner(s) shall hold 15,000,000 AM shares (60% of the profits), for a total of 25,000,000 ATM virtual shares that represent 100% of the global profits of ActiveMining.

Public investor's protection plan
The first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares have the privilege of getting all profits until BTC0.0025/share is paid, starting from the day when dividends begin to be paid.

How to buy shares
AM shares will be sold on BitFunder and BTCT.CO and any other exchange, following asset approval or tendered by AMC shares. Existing Active Mining Cooperative (AMC) shareholders will be entitled to tender their shares for ActiveMining shares, on a 1:1 basis and are also covered in the public investor's protection plan.

Dividend payment
The global ActiveMining's income, including mining income, hardware sales via bitcoins, other cryptocoins and fiat transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to ActiveMining shareholders proportionally, after all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, growth and miscellaneous expenses are deducted. The first BTC0.0025/share dividends will only be paid to the first 10,000,000 ATM shares, providing public investors a priority in getting back 100% return of their investment.

Our chips in development
Generation 1: Fast-Hash. 28nm. Each chip's rated frequency is 800 MHz at 1.15V. It translates to 16,000 MH/s because it does 20 hashes per cycle. Chip requires proper handling of heat and power supply. It is expected the chip can be overclocked to 1000 MHz @ 20,000 MH/s.

Our existing hardware assets from AMC liquidation
6 Avalon miners, currently running on BTC Guild under "Team AMC" for around 430 GH/s;
An order of Avalon chips from steamboat's batch #1, for 68 Klondike-16 boards, rated at 68*16*282 = 307 GH/s;
An order of 20,000 Avalon chips (end of May and beginging of June orders), for a combined hashrate of 20,000*282 = 5,640 GH/s.

In total, around 6,377 GH/s, expected to be fully operational in the middle of August.

[navitatl]

When are you expecting to pull the trigger on the new offering, Ken? I'm itching to get my shares swapped!

[John818]

Dividend payment
The global Active Mining Corporation's income, including mining income, hardware sales via bitcoins, other cryptocoins and fiat transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to ActiveMining shareholders proportionally, when all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, and miscellaneous expenses are deducted. The first BTC0.0025/share dividends will only be paid to the first 10,000,000 AM shares sold, providing investors a priority in getting back 100% return of their investment.

Very shortly dividend payments will be increasing by a factor of 4. Then another 75% (Klondikes). This is a win win.

As a side note, the wording is left with the vague impression that only the shares sold so far will recieve dividends. With only 6 million shares sold at the moment, dividends split 40 million ways, has been reduced to 6M or 6.6x.

Adding 300GH to our 400 give the the payout another 75% payout.

[.00000139 + (.00000139*0.75)]*6.6 = .0001605/share If this deal goes through (and if my assumptions are correct).

Oh an fuck this when our 20,000 chips come in.

 

These calculations must be wrong, unfortunately.

Current difficulty would earn approximately 16.5 bitcoins per day with a hash rate of 700 GH/s.

If you divide that by 6,000,000 and multiply by seven, you get a weekly dividend of 0.00001925 btc per share.

[Stuartuk]

ATM or ACM or AMG or something else - can we have a poll?

[WildFire.ca]

Were starting to get some publicity for the VMC miners. Feel free to send this guy a donation if your stock price goes up or some miners get sold. I subscribe to his channel, he has a real good incite into BTC and BTC trading.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEyrg2JVBSA&feature=youtu.be&t=9m18s


http://thegenesisblock.com/amc-announces-4-8-ths-bitcoin-miners-for-3000-btc/

Ken, is the pricing correct on these. You want .25mil for a miner?

[lewicki]

Dividend payment
The global Active Mining Corporation's income, including mining income, hardware sales via bitcoins, other cryptocoins and fiat transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to ActiveMining shareholders proportionally, when all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, and miscellaneous expenses are deducted. The first BTC0.0025/share dividends will only be paid to the first 10,000,000 AM shares sold, providing investors a priority in getting back 100% return of their investment.

Very shortly dividend payments will be increasing by a factor of 4. Then another 75% (Klondikes). This is a win win.

As a side note, the wording is left with the vague impression that only the shares sold so far will recieve dividends. With only 6 million shares sold at the moment, dividends split 40 million ways, has been reduced to 6M or 6.6x.

Adding 300GH to our 400 give the the payout another 75% payout.

[.00000139 + (.00000139*0.75)]*6.6 = .0001605/share If this deal goes through (and if my assumptions are correct).

Oh an fuck this when our 20,000 chips come in.

 

These calculations must be wrong, unfortunately.

Current difficulty would earn approximately 16.5 bitcoins per day with a hash rate of 700 GH/s.

If you divide that by 6,000,000 and multiply by seven, you get a weekly dividend of 0.00001925 btc per share.

You are right. I missed a '0'. 0.0000160545 was what is should have been.