OgNasty: "@Lutpin: Really should kill himself."

[Lutpin]

It saddens me that I feel the need to write this thread. What you're seeing right here is the result of a conflict that has been going on for way too long now.
A conflict which I never intended to, and one which I did everything remotely possible to avoid, but frankly, no matter how hard I tried, it failed.
Taking things out in public isn't normally my way, but hands down, I tried sorting this out, over and over again, and this is the last option I see for myself.

Everything began a few days ago, when out of the blue I was contacted by OgNasty about their current struggles with TwitchySeal/game-protect/et al.
Their messages included vague threats in my direction ("I am disappointed with you and while I move slowly, I cut deep."), aswell as a lot of stuff that did not make sense to me.
I was shocked and confused, it seemed like a big misunderstanding to me. A full transcript of the first night can be found here -> https://i.snag.gy/ro4AOi.jpg
(This is 100% authentic information, which can be confirmed by trusted members.)

I immediately contacted a few guys to try help me putting any sense to it and consulted several members of staff about this, as I wanted to know what exactly was going down.
None had any idea about what was happening or what exactly OgNasty was talking about.

As time passed by, I realized that OgNasty believes I'm the person in control of the accounts TwitchySeal, game-protect, aswell as some others.
A believe which is not only wrong, but also backed up by no evidence whatsoever. Theymos came in on the situation.
They can confirm that there are no IP evidences connecting me to either of these accounts and that there's no further reason to believe I am connected to any of them in any given way.

Meanwhile, OgNasty was looking into ways to release my address on the forum. An address they got for shipping purposes (I've ordered coins a few time from them) and further, an address that has nothing to do on this forum or in public in general. I'm shocked they even tried getting the allowance to do so. To me, that's been a major brech of trust I gave them when trading with them.

Further, one night, without me around, they've had the following conversation in the #cryptocurrency-collectors channel (FreeNode/Slack), which started with the words "<ognasty> @lutpin: Really should kill himself."

Code:

<Slck><ognasty> @lutpin: Really should kill himself.
<Anduck>ognasty wtf?
<Anduck>you seriously just said that lutpin should kill himself?
<Slck><ognasty> I'm tired of the harassment.
<Slck><ognasty> Every day a new alt...  I'm done with it.
<Slck><ognasty> All because he's mad I'm getting paid for my signature...
<Slck><ognasty> No amount of harassment will change it, yet he won't stop.
<Slck><ognasty> I'm not going to put up with another two weeks of this.
<Anduck>shutdown the computer = no more harassing
<Slck><ognasty> Shutting down the computer doesn't stop them from making threads and leaving BS trust posts.
<Anduck>WoT is there for a reason
<Slck><ognasty> WoT is useless...
<Anduck>so your WoT/account is worth more than lutpin life?
<Anduck>good to know
<Slck><ognasty> Same bullshit alt games there too.... Mircea Popescu has like 25 different WoT alts.... lol
<Anduck>name them
<Slck><ognasty> No, I think people who harass others should kill themselves.
<Slck><ognasty> Lutpin is being a piece of shit for some reason...
<Slck><ognasty> If someone was harassing you repeatedly, I wouldn't stick up for them...
<Slck><miffman> Og, you can obviously say whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want. Do keep in mind that this is a public forum though. Anything that gets said here is pretty much here forever.
<Slck><ognasty> Dude is out of line.  You can try and blame the victim all you want.  I'm not going to silence myself merely because other people hide their comments behind alt accounts.
<Slck><ognasty> This is me saying I don't need an alt account to voice my opinion, and these people like Lutpin who anonymously attack people to try and get their way are the scum of the internet.
<Slck><ognasty> Not to mention they have no balls.
<Anduck>or maybe you're currently harassing lutpin publicly while some anonymous, as you said, is harassing you
<Slck><ognasty> or maybe I actually know what I'm talking about...
<hybridsole>guys, this isn't #bitcointalk-drama
<Slck><ognasty> I know it's always easier to assume people are stupid, but that is not the case here...
<hybridsole>please take your signature campaign stuff out of here
<Anduck>still you claim this anonymous = lutpin. are you sure of this Og?
<Anduck>*sure*
<Slck><ognasty> This is about me being harassed by a member of this chat.  Has nothing to do with my signature.  My signature is my own business.
<Slck><ognasty> I thought this was a community of intelligent individuals who wouldn't stand for this type of behavior, but obviously I was wrong.
<hybridsole>OGnasty, while that may be the case, I don't see anyone being harassed except for Lutpin right now.  And don't confuse that with me having a dog in this fight, I don't
<Slck><ognasty> Encourage extortion and stick up for people who harass others.  I'm sure that will lead to a better online community.
<Anduck>ognasty: what i've seen here is a death will against a community member here, and this community member is not you
<hybridsole>But telling someone to kill themselves isn't going to win you any sympathy points with me.
<Slck><ognasty> That's because while I'm being harassed privately, I'm responding publicy, because I do not need to hide.
<Anduck>there's simply no evidence of that lutpin is harrassing you, or is there?
<Slck><ognasty> Yes.
<Anduck>this is not about our intelligence or anything like that.
<Slck><ognasty> I have proof.
<Anduck>ok, prove it then?
<Anduck>why didn't you prove it earlier!
<Anduck>no need for guessing games when you can simply prove it.
<Slck><ognasty> I don't need to prove it to you.  I need to prove it to those wielding a ban hammer.  They're looking into my submission.
<Anduck>i am wielding a ban hammer here!
<Slck><minifrij> Anduck has control of this channel IIRC, he can ban people here
<Anduck>but, as you said Ognasty you don't need to prove me anything.
<Slck><ognasty> Indeed.
<Slck><ognasty> My reputation speaks for itself.  Lutpin's of him.
<hybridsole>proof or not, it's off-topic here. Maybe if someone scammed you for a Casascius coin, you can drag it out here. But the fact that the person you are beefing with is in this channel doesn't make it "on topic"
<Slck><ognasty> I'm voicing that I'm being harassed.  If you all want to look the other way, that is fine.
<Anduck>it's just a bit weird you ask for our help to remove Lutpin and simultaneously refuse to help with this
<Slck><ognasty> You're right.  His reputation is worthless and banning him from here or btctalk won't stop the harassment, as he's using TOR.
<Slck><ognasty> Best case scenario he's out a few satoshi's for a new account and has to wait before joining a new signature campaign.
<Anduck>but, why don't you want everyone to "know the truth"?
<Slck><ognasty> I guess I just expected that after 5 years of doing nothing but going out of my way to help nearly every active trader on bitcointalk, people can blame me as I'm being harassed repeatedly.
<Anduck>look, i'd be happy to help but so far you've refused all my attempts.
<Slck><ognasty> The truth is I'm being harassed as a result of Lutpin's displeasure at my signature advertiser.  You can believe, or not.  It makes no difference to me other than having to defend myself to you also.
<Anduck>i am not intending to attack you.
<Anduck>i am going away now, to not escalate this further. :)
<Anduck>good luck og, hope the harasser stops it soon
<Anduck>they usually do after they don't get anymore attention
<Slck><ognasty> Me too, but he won't.  I'll remove my signature at the end of the month like I said, and all the attacks will still be there.
<Slck><ognasty> I haven't posted anything about any of this on the forum either.  I merely thought this was a friendly place people wanted to know things.  You can go back to discussing coffee and rocket league now.
<Slck><minifrij> With all due respect, I can't personally understand why you're getting so worked up about it
<DeepSpace>OgNasty, I am hereby warning you to keep death threats away from these chats. That's highly inappriopate and as long as I don't see any valid evidence I really don't like you saying that kind of stuff.

(Everyone being around that night, aswell as further others, can confirm that this is a 100% authentic log of the channel and things happened like this. OgNasty wishes me to die.)


As to this day, even with theymos trying to get a hand on the situation, nothing has changed to the better, I feel no other way than going public with this situation.
This has been going on for too long, it's starting to affect my health. I want nothing else than this to stop, I had nothing to do with the people harassing you.
It has to stop, right now and right here.

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[Lauda]

I've posted here to watch how the situation unfolds/resolves.

(Everyone being around that night, aswell as further others, can confirm that this is a 100% authentic log of the channel and things happened like this. OgNasty wishes me to die.)

After quickly skimming through it, this log should be authentic. I've read it from my IRC history some time after it had happened.

[CryptoDatabase]

A good solution to this is to send him one final notice. Inform him that you no longer wish to have any sort of relation to them and that if they release your private information that you will pursue legal action in the form of a civil suit.

Leave it at that and let him continue with what he is doing. Continuing with stuff like this will only prolong the matter and further inflame it unfortunately.

[EcuaMobi]

I really don't like how OgNasty has been handling all this. He has accused others to threaten him while I consider his actions could be qualified more as that.
As I've said before I think not advertising Betcoin would be much more responsible, especially for someone as trusted as OgNasty. But I don't think there are enough proof to demand it or to leave negative trust to him or others who promote it. OgNasty promotes it and it's somewhat disappointing but so be it. This has really came out of control.

@Lutpin: I really think you should just drop it. To be honest I'd say it's not worth it. And I really don't think "Really should kill himself" must be taken literally. It's an awful thing to say but I really don't think he meant it. I think he was just mad. Isn't that right OgNasty?

@OgNasty: It seems your whole point is that you assume everyone that asks you to stop promoting it is in a conspiracy, has several alts and has interests on competing sites. However you miss to provide any proof. If what you assume is true then my whole point of view would change.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

That's fucked up.  None of this drama surprises me anymore, but two members of DT fighting (even though this has nothing to do with that list) isn't good.  Is OGNasty going to get tagged for this?  It seems like it's bad behavior at the least.

[Lauda]

@Lutpin: I really think you should just drop it. To be honest I'd say it's not worth it.

They did drop it. AFAIK this was attempted to be solved privately, but they can't control the actions of the other party. From what I do understand, Lutpin is just concerned about their safety at this time as the other party does have their full DOX.

And I really don't think "Really should kill himself" must be taken literally.

Considering the messages that they've exchanged privately, I'm not sure what to think of this.

Is OGNasty going to get tagged for this?  It seems like it's bad behavior at the least.

This is what we call "bad behavior" now? The situation is a mess.

[EcuaMobi]

And I really don't think "Really should kill himself" must be taken literally.

Considering the messages that they've exchanged privately, I'm not sure what to think of this.

Is OGNasty going to get tagged for this?  It seems like it's bad behavior at the least.

This is what we call "bad behavior" now? The situation is a mess.

If OgNasty doesn't confirm what I'm assuming in good faith then this is much more than bad behavior and he must be tagged.

OgNasty, am I assuming correctly that you didn't really mean this?

[TwitchySeal]

This is all very weird stuff.  Seems like there's some piece of information missing that would explain his behavior - not sure what it is though.

I was starting to think someone was manipulating OgNasty, which would explain why he was acting like this.  But maybe he's just flipping a shit because his 3+ year streak of no red trust of any kind ended.  (when a relatively new member, Games-Protect, left him neg feedback for promoting Betcoin)

<Slck><ognasty> My reputation speaks for itself.  Lutpin's of him.

Here's one of the two neutral feedbacks OgN left, which makes it seem like he went out of his way to maintain the sea of flawless green:

Upon discovering that NastyPool has not been paid fees for many months I attempted to remove it from the site.  This resulted in my account being drained of BTC.  When I brought this up to aliser I was told he would not be refunding the BTC that was in my account, will not honor the changes that were made, and will not pay me the fees I am owed for running NastyPool on minerfarm.  I then asked that he at least remove NastyPool from his site, as I did not think it was appropriate for him to benefit from my reputation while stealing my earned funds.  He has refused.

It is now clear that this site is not being run by someone with any sort of ethics.  I have given aliser the opportunity to resolve this situation prior to making my issues public by simply removing NastyPool from minerfarm and refunding the fees that were stolen (letting him keep the months of pool earnings he has stolen).  He has chosen to insult me rather than do the right thing.  Be warned.

[betlord90]

Twitchyseal bringing up all the mess here, that account has been made just to troll th betcoin.ag as you can see the 59 pages of his post history it is clearly stated that he has personal grudge against the betcoin company.

 Who knows maybe someone paying him to do some dirty works aswell as to ruined  the company reputation and look what happen now the mess is spreading for her lies.

OGnasty can do whatever he want nobody can dictate him upon his decision.

[OgNasty]

That's fucked up.  None of this drama surprises me anymore, but two members of DT fighting (even though this has nothing to do with that list) isn't good.  Is OGNasty going to get tagged for this?  It seems like it's bad behavior at the least.

I'm not fighting with anyone.  I've made no prior mention of any of his harassment of me publicly on these forums.  I was contacted on this forum, unsolicited, by Lutpin (I did not reach out to him as alleged above), who advised me to remove my signature and join Lauda's signature campaign group.  When I refused, this situation unfolded.  Lauda even contacted me on Slack asking about getting my advertiser to sponsor his new signature campaign group, so I'm not sure when it was labeled as evil.  Nevertheless, rather than get into a public mud-slinging contest, I will leave it to the community to decide who is harassing who.

[robinH]

@ Luptin grow a pair

[cpfreeplz]

That's fucked up.  None of this drama surprises me anymore, but two members of DT fighting (even though this has nothing to do with that list) isn't good.  Is OGNasty going to get tagged for this?  It seems like it's bad behavior at the least.

I'm not fighting with anyone.  I've made no prior mention of any of his harassment of me publicly on these forums.  I was contacted on this forum, unsolicited, by Lutpin, who advised me to remove my signature and join Lauda's signature campaign group.  When I refused, this situation unfolded.  Lauda even contacted me on Slack asking about getting my advertiser to sponsor his new signature campaign group, so I'm not sure when it was labeled as evil.  Nevertheless, rather than get into a public mud-slinging contest, I will leave it to the community to decide who is harassing who.

It was unprofessional as a business owner to say he should kill himself. Obviously I hope you don't actually feel that way, nor do I take it very seriously.

On the other hand who gives a shit what people advertise for? Like seriously there's a whole sub forum that should basically be called 'scams' but you can't advertise gambling websites because they had a major screw up? I've seen way bigger businesses have way bigger screw ups and people just stop using them, not flip out on the Internet.

If you don't like who OgNasty is advertising for then you should have bid higher. Nuff said. He's not advertising a racist kiddy-porn Hitler loving website ffs. It's a bitcoin casino. They're all sketchy, but people love them because they're easy. Pick your battles. This isn't worth it.

[Lauda]

If OgNasty doesn't confirm what I'm assuming in good faith then this is much more than bad behavior and he must be tagged.

They didn't confirm it so far.

Lauda even contacted me on Slack asking about getting my advertiser to sponsor his new signature campaign group, so I'm not sure when it was labeled as evil.

I don't have any memory of contacting you regarding Betcoin sponsoring ACE. I highly doubt that ACE would advertise them (2 members dropped them anyways) anyways. I have contacted you regarding moneypot and your own rates (prior and current), that's it. Please keep me out of this as I have nothing to do with it.

-snip-

It seems like you've missed the point of this thread.

[betlord90]

That's fucked up.  None of this drama surprises me anymore, but two members of DT fighting (even though this has nothing to do with that list) isn't good.  Is OGNasty going to get tagged for this?  It seems like it's bad behavior at the least.

I'm not fighting with anyone.  I've made no prior mention of any of his harassment of me publicly on these forums.  I was contacted on this forum, unsolicited, by Lutpin, who advised me to remove my signature and join Lauda's signature campaign group.  When I refused, this situation unfolded.  Lauda even contacted me on Slack asking about getting my advertiser to sponsor his new signature campaign group, so I'm not sure when it was labeled as evil.  Nevertheless, rather than get into a public mud-slinging contest, I will leave it to the community to decide who is harassing who.

It was unprofessional as a business owner to say he should kill himself. Obviously I hope you don't actually feel that way, nor do I take it very seriously.

On the other hand who gives a shit what people advertise for? Like seriously there's a whole sub forum that should basically be called 'scams' but you can't advertise gambling websites because they had a major screw up? I've seen way bigger businesses have way bigger screw ups and people just stop using them, not flip out on the Internet.

If you don't like who OgNasty is advertising for then you should have bid higher. Nuff said. He's not advertising a racist kiddy-porn Hitler loving website ffs. It's a bitcoin casino. They're all sketchy, but people love them because they're easy. Pick your battles. This isn't worth it.

If some of you didn't listen to a troller person well this commotion and conflict of interest will not gonna be happen.

See for yourself what twitchyseal brought up as his past post history says. He was clearly paid shill man. He's doing dirty manipulating tricks here.

Do you ever see people posting 59 pages of troll against one company? I think only twitchyseal is the only one.

I think betcoin.ag's competitor is afraid because betcoin.ag gather more fame on casino business scene. Thats why paid twitchyshill are keeping attacking and attacking so he can give vad image to the said company.

i know people are not blind here try to read for yourself the post history of twitchyseal telling that his account has been made just to attack the betcoin company.


Cheer Up Man your on DT2 list you two shouldn't supposed to be throw some red paint to each other. Be an Example dont be one sided for a single person telling bad against one company.

Black Propaganda is everywhere.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

That's fucked up.  None of this drama surprises me anymore, but two members of DT fighting (even though this has nothing to do with that list) isn't good.  Is OGNasty going to get tagged for this?  It seems like it's bad behavior at the least.

I'm not fighting with anyone.  I've made no prior mention of any of his harassment of me publicly on these forums.  I was contacted on this forum, unsolicited, by Lutpin (I did not reach out to him as alleged above), who advised me to remove my signature and join Lauda's signature campaign group.  When I refused, this situation unfolded.  Lauda even contacted me on Slack asking about getting my advertiser to sponsor his new signature campaign group, so I'm not sure when it was labeled as evil.  Nevertheless, rather than get into a public mud-slinging contest, I will leave it to the community to decide who is harassing who.

With all due respect,  wishing death on someone on a public forum, in writing,  is fightin' words.  I got no cocks in this fight, but thinking those thoughts and writing them out--especially given your stellar record of trust--are two very different things.

[game-protect]

I really don't like how OgNasty has been handling all this. He has accused others to threaten him while I consider his actions could be qualified more as that.
As I've said before I think not advertising Betcoin would be much more responsible, especially for someone as trusted as OgNasty. But I don't think there are enough proof to demand it or to leave negative trust to him or others who promote it. OgNasty promotes it and it's somewhat disappointing but so be it. This has really came out of control.

Can you please elaborate which part specifically you are not able to understand?

_______________

Betcoin.ag Poker Terms of Service (TOS)

BetcoinPoker.com advises You to read all of these documents carefully as each forms part of the legally binding agreement between You and BetcoinPoker.com

-> It is juridical not possible to have a legally binding agreement with a domain name! Legally binding agreements are only possible between legal entities or private persons. The “Terms of Service” does also neither state the name of the operator nor a gambling license (if any exist), nothing!

-> False and misleading statements are the criminal offense of fraud!

Fraud Act 2016

2 Fraud by false representation

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b) intends, by making the representation—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

(2) A representation is false if—

(a) it is untrue or misleading, and

(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

(3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

(a) the person making the representation, or

(b) any other person.

(4) A representation may be express or implied.

(5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).


Betcoin.ag governed in Hong Kong or Curacao or Costa Rica or nowhere?

25. GOVERNING LAW

These Agreements shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong. You irrevocably agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Curacao in The Netherlands Antilles for the settlement of any dispute or matters arising out of or concerning these Agreements or their enforceability.

Based on what shall the alleged agreements with Betcoin.ag be governed and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong or Curacao?

How could “These Agreements” be governed and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong, while online gambling is not allowed in Hong Kong? Does this make sense?

If the Betcoin.ag operation shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong, why do you need to irrevocably agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Curacao?



Wait, Betcoin.ag scam Casino Terms of Service (TOS)

The Agreement and any matters relating hereto shall be governed by, and construed in accordance with the laws of Costa Rica. Each party irrevocably agrees that the relevant courts of Costa Rica shall have exclusive jurisdiction in relation to any claim, dispute or difference between them concerning the Agreement and any matter arising hereunder.

1, 2 or 3, you have to decide, 3 fields are free!

So where is it now? Hong Kong or Curacao or Costa Rica or nowhere?

Who is the operator of Betcoin.ag? Why is the name not stated on their website?

Do you feel comfortable to send your Bitcoins to something while you do not know who the operator is?

Here is a guy who won a huge Jackpot, but of course did not receive it:

BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot

_______________


Just to let you know, until today they were not able to disapprove any of the statements above.

[Quickseller]

This whole situation appears to be a complete clusterfuck. Both sides are accusing the other of bad faith (and much worse).

First of all, I absolutely do not condone someone telling someone else that they "should kill himself", I do not think there is any good reason to make this kind of comment. This is something that I would consider when considering doing business with someone. With this being said, everyone does make mistakes, and everyone gets frustrated, if this truly is an isolated incident, no personal information gets released absent some kind of trade dispute, and OgNasty apologizes, then I think everyone can get past this incident.

The fact that Lutpin was told something very inappropriate does not absolve him from the kind of business practices he is alleged to have engaged in doing. I have long been suspicious of Lutpin, have looked into him, but have never come across an accusation of this kind of business activity -- this is not to say that these allegations are untrue, or unfounded. 

[bitkilo]

~snip~
It has to stop, right now and right here.

Not taking anyone's side in this but i have been seeing the situation regarding the 2 members in question unfolding for weeks now and can say it is only getting worse for both parties, let's put a stop to any harassment or accusations now.

And no releasing anyone's DOX please, things don't need to go so far  

[Vod]

People who make threats over the internet are most always cowards. 

I wouldn't worry a single second over it.

[OgNasty]

First of all, I absolutely do not condone someone telling someone else that they "should kill himself"

Agreed.  Lutpin, despite what I may or may not think of you and your behavior, suggesting you kill yourself, even if being sarcastic, was not appropriate and I am sorry I made the comment.  If you killed yourself as a result of my statement, I would certainly lose sleep over it and feel a great deal of guilt.  While I tend to think people are a little too sensitive these days, my own beliefs don't excuse me from perceived threats and I'm sorry that you thought I was threatening you, I wasn't.  Rather than asking you to provide IP evidence it was me who made the comment, I've taken responsibility for my actions and apologized.  I should not have said that you should kill yourself.  I did, and I am sorry.

And no releasing anyone's DOX please, things don't need to go so far  

At no point did I ever threaten to DOX Lutpin.  I would also dispute his claim that he tried to do anything to de-escalate the situation as I have gotten no communication from him outside of telling me to remove the signature and join Lauda's signature advertising group.  In fact, we haven't had any interaction at all for several days until I saw him create this thread and leave me negative trust today.

People who make threats over the internet are most always cowards.  

I wouldn't worry a single second over it.

Agreed.  My comment that he should kill himself was not meant as a threat, and he has no reason to fear bodily harm from me.  Hopefully this post relieves some of his stress as nobody's health should be effected by forum drama.