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Author Topic: BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot  (Read 16614 times)
jasonort
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June 19, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
 #1

I would like the forums opinion on whether I should have won the jackpot. Here's the background: I placed a max bet on the slot "The Glam Life". On the original bet I got 3 airplanes on 2 paylines granting me 4 bonus spins. On the final spin I get five Yachts on the payline which in my opinion should have triggered the jackpot. Instead I was paid 1000 credits. This I believe this is evidence to the fact that it was a max bet according to the pay table. 5 yachts = 200 credits x Number of bets per line. Five bets per line is the maximum. Based on them paying me 1000 credits they're essentially stating that I bet the max amount. So why would this not qualify for a jackpot? Betsoft is stating that it does not qualify because it was a bonus spin. I can find nowhere in the terms and conditions, rules of the game, or payouts description stating that a bonus spin is not eligible for the jackpot. Please take a look at the photos of my win, and of the pays, and let me know what you think. Should I have won the jackpot?  Betcoin.ag says No because it was a bonus spin.  Take a look at the screenshots I took.

http://imgur.com/a/hx7Ht

Betcoin.ag is of course saying that BetSoft is to blame.  Who can I dispute this with?
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June 19, 2016, 04:04:22 AM
 #2

Do you have the bet ID, and hashes of the bet? How much is the jackpot in question? What are the terms of the jackpot? You should be able to use archive.today to preserve everything except the hashes of the bet but you should be able to math mathematically prove this.

edit: per the request of TwitchySeal I am quoting his post in my reply, which is the first reply to this thread (I have not investigated the accuracy of the below statements):

I did some digging when I saw OPs post on Betcoin and how aggressively comments were being censored.  It's shocking how non-transparent Betsoftgaming software is. As few explanations, terms or conditions as possible.  The game in question has a $3m progressive, but don't explain where it comes from or how it's won other than "5 yachts on max bet". 



Pretty unreal.

As usual, Betcoin makes everything as shady as possible by attempting to cover it up and make OP feel like shit for being such a crybaby.  I've personally had over 50 posts removed in the last 2 days and will continue to post all the facts below on their own forum.

Here are the facts:

  • Glamlife is a progressive jackpot game provided by Betsoft Gaming
  • When changing from one denomination to another, the Progressive Jackpot also changes. This indicates that each denomination has it's own independent Jackpot.
  • Currently, for the Highest denomination Betcoin advertises the Glam Life Progressive Jackpot as 3,872.26 BTC (3,872.26 BTC, current value of ~$2.9 Million USD) as Seen here:



  • Jason was playing with .5 mbtc denomination and the Jackpot displayed 1,007,249.91 (503.6249 BTC current value of ~$383,000)
  • The only requirement that can be found anywhere within the game, Betcoin.ag or Betsoft.com/ is "5 Yacht Icons on Max Bet wins Jackpot"
  • At .5 denomination Jason placed the maximum bet of 5 credits x 25 lines = 125 credits or 0.062 BTC (~$45 at the time).
   3 Scatters Triggered 4 Extra Spins (note: no multiplier or anything to indicate that alternative reels were in play)
   On thefinal spin, 5 Yacht Symbols landed on Payline 1.





  • Jason was paid 1000 credits (0.5 BTC) for the spin.
  • Betcoin.ag staff deleted all posts in the thread that had criticism of either Betcoin or Betsoft, posted the following message relayed from Betsoftgaming and locked the thread.  I only archived one of the deleted comments: https://archive.is/eE55g
Quote
Thank you for your inquiry. We can confirm that your win was correct in this situation. A maximum bet for this game is the highest denomination which is 1.00, whereas in this particular round, you bet 0.50, even though you chose 'Max Bet', the jackpot is only won when it is the maximum bet (1.00).



  • Since locking the thread there has been no response to the appearance of each denomination having its own seperate Jackpot.
  • Betcoin Moderator Plo8s comment on Issue (It's standard for him to defend Betcoin with nonsense):
Quote
plo8monster: thats totally not true lol ungod ... the bonus max out at 1000chips, and the vendor has that rule .. betcoin dont pay it the vendor does ... you guys all jump on bandwagon ... but these are vendors that do sports and casino games ..... I dont have time to get into this tonight ...but the vendor limits bonus wins @ 1000 chips .... if he were spending his money and made that spin he would be Phat with coin

-Betcoin Andrews response on deleted comments via private chat:

Quote
(10:13:16) *** Betcoin Andrew joined the chat ***
(10:13:16) *** twitchyseal joined the chat ***
(10:15:47) twitchyseal: hey andrew, you know anything about my vanishing post?
(10:17:21) Betcoin Andrew: Our casino providers do an excellent job and are used by the top online casinos. We cannot have those type of comments about them in the forum as they are constantly reviewing our website.
(10:17:26) *** Betcoin Andrew left the chat ***

  • About Betsoftgaming

-In March 2013, Betsoft was granted a Category 1 license from the Alderny Gaming Control Commision (AGCC) : http://www.betsoft.com/media/betsoft-gaming-announces-completion-alderney

-July 2014, AGCC ordered Betsoft to "cease to offer gambling specific software to Category 1 eGambling licensees, Category 2 eGambling licensees and Category 2 Associate Certificate holders" pending the result of a hearing set for October 2014
https://www.gamblingcontrol.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AGCC-Notice-R...

-October 2014, 3 days before scheduled hearing, Betsoft surrendered their license and rights to provide class 1 e-gaming to casinos located within AGCC jurisdiction:
https://www.gamblingcontrol.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Digitus-notic...


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June 19, 2016, 05:56:07 AM
 #3

I play on this site and looked at the man's screenshot on a forum post there. This jackpot is worth $750,000, largest fuckaroo in bitcoin casino history in my opinion.
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June 19, 2016, 10:34:15 AM
 #4

I play on this site and looked at the man's screenshot on a forum post there. This jackpot is worth $750,000, largest fuckaroo in bitcoin casino history in my opinion.

If its stated in their ToS or in the games paytable that the jackpot cannot be claimed or won if in a bonus round then he was not screwed at all. On the other hand if its not stated anywhere then betcoin needs to man up and pay the guy or get neg repped like crazy

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June 19, 2016, 11:34:31 AM
 #5

Its quite simple betsoft should be the one to release the jackpot once betcoin receives it they convert it to btc for you. If betsoft says it's not a jackpot ask them

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June 19, 2016, 12:45:56 PM
 #6

Chat started
sdfsf
hey i have a question
   
can I win the jackpot in slots during a bonus round?
   
hello?
   
Betcoin Stuart joined the chat
   
Betcoin Stuart
Hello
   
yes I think you can]
sdfsf
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.0
   
explain that one then
   
   
Betcoin Stuart
create a ticket
   
to receive a proper explanation
sdfsf
thank you


Well you gotta love the support for that site. Did you create a ticket?

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June 19, 2016, 01:22:25 PM
 #7

I guess you can not claim a jackpot that, in all the gambling sites the balance you get from bonus spins can't be claimed. sorry if I'm wrong because what I know is like that.

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June 19, 2016, 01:49:52 PM
 #8

It is a shady company. I saw many scam reports about them. Those promotions is a scam. No way they will give you $750,000.
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June 19, 2016, 01:53:15 PM
 #9

It is a shady company. I saw many scam reports about them. Those promotions is a scam. No way they will give you $750,000.
If you actually knew what is going on you would know that betcoin doesn't give the jackpot but betsoft. And the op has to contact betsoft for the jackpot but I don't think you knew that as you only post for your yobit  campaign.

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June 19, 2016, 09:40:11 PM
 #10

This should be paid, why they did not set Jackpot Number to 0 during free spins they adjust it to the bet amount

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June 19, 2016, 10:54:36 PM
 #11

Betcoin.ag   scam
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June 20, 2016, 03:53:50 AM
 #12

Here is my support ticket transcript from Betcoin.ag

Ticket #57771: Glam Life Should Have Won Jackpot
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Edit
 by jasonort on June 14th, 2016
 16 Comments 0 Shares Tweets +1
I got 5 Yachts across the payline in Glam Life at Max Bet. Should have won Jackpot, but only received 1000 credits. I'm really upset. I have a screenshot of the win. How can I get it to you.
16 COMMENTS

 
jasonort: Here is the screen grab I4 days 23 hours ago
Here is the screen grab I took.

http://imgur.com/UQxeVni

0
reply
 
jasonort: Transaction ID for the win is4 days 23 hours ago
Transaction ID for the win is 21940441

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Betcoin Jessica: Hello jasonort, we sent this4 days 21 hours ago
Hello jasonort, we sent this to the software provider for review and we are reviewing it internally. There are a few reasons why this may happen including this was a free spin or bonus round which was not mentioned here but we will see what the software provider states very shortly.

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jasonort: It does not state anywhere4 days 20 hours ago
It does not state anywhere that a free spin does not count. I also searched BetSoft's website. I bet the Max bet, and got 5 yachts on the payline. I don't see any way that I did not win. If there were any exceptions to these rules they should be stated clearly on the pay table. There is no such language on your site or on BetSofts website.

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jasonort: Please feel free to email4 days 20 hours ago
Please feel free to email directly to discuss at jasonort@X.com or call me on my cell phone at 1-XXX-XXX-XXXX any time after 8am Central Standard Time.

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Betcoin Andrew: Hello, we are waiting to hear4 days 10 hours ago
Hello, we are waiting to hear from Betsoft on the matter in detail. Betsoft provides the software for all of the the top online casinos including Betcoin as well as all payouts directly through there interface. There would be no way for us to even change it as you are technically playing directly on Betsoft servers. Are you now saying that this was a bonus spin or free round? I haven't personally checked because we are waiting to hear from Betsoft.

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jasonort: Andrew, 4 days 9 hours ago
Andrew,
If you look at the pay line I have bet the maximum amount of 125 credits. Truthfully I don't know if this was a free spin, it was very late and I was zoning out playing. Got very excited when I saw the pay line. Was instantly devastated when I saw the payout. In my opinion it should not matter whether it was a free spin or not, as the free spin would have been obtained by betting the max bet. There is nothing stating on your website or on Betsoft's website in regards to this game stating that a bonus spin would not qualify for the jackpot. It clearly states only that five yachts on the pay line with max bet wins the jackpot. There are no caveats listed, and it is very clear that I wagered the Max bet. Further any other winning combination resulting from a bonus spin would have been paid out as a max bet because that is what was wagered. I know this is not how you would usually do things, but could you please give me a telephone call at 1-XXX-XXX-XXXX? I would really appreciate speak to a live person as this is an unusual circumstance. Thank you very much.

Jason

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jasonort: Radio Silence3 days 19 hours ago
Could one of the managers please give me an update? I know you are waiting on BetSoft, but what does your internal review show? I have not found anything in any of the terms and conditions for this game that says that I should not have won a jackpot on this spin. Please someone let me know what is happpening.

0
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Betcoin William: We just received a response3 days 13 hours ago
We just received a response from Betsoft and Andrew was 100% correct. Again as Andrew pointed out, you play directly on the Betsoft servers and not on Betcoin's servers as do all players of Betsoft slots across the Internet. Following is the response directly from Betsoft Gaming.

Hello Betcoin,

The jackpot can only be won on an active, paid round. So, this behavior is correct being that it was achieved during a free spin session.

Warm Regards,

Support Manager
Betsoft Gaming

Andrew knew this was the case when he first responded to you, but wanted to confirm with Betsoft even though you did not mention in your initial inquiry that this was done in a bonus round or free spin. Betsoft sets the rules, odds for the slots and the table games and we cannot change them in anyway. We appreciate you playing with us jasonort and are always here for you anytime.

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jasonort: Is there a way to dispute this with BetSoft3 days 11 hours ago
I understand that you are the middleman in this situation. Is there anyway to dispute this finding with Betsoft? I would ask you for a minute to put yourself in my position and try to be objective. Tell me where you see in any of the rules or conditions for this game does it state that a bonus spin that was obtained with a max bet would not qualify for the jackpot? I originally bet the max bet. It seems to me that Betsoft should either clearly state this, or modify their software to make it impossible for a jackpot pay line to be hit during a bonus spin. I am extremely upset by this because I have found nowhere in the rules, terms and conditions explicitly stating that this should not qualify for a jackpot. I would welcome your thoughts, and much more would appreciate a live telephone call. My cell phone number is 1-XXX-XXX-XXXX.

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Betcoin Andrew: Thank you for your3 days 10 hours ago
Thank you for your understanding. Betsoft has been doing this for well over 10 years servicing the top online casinos in the industry. You would have the same answer on any other casino. We have dealt with this before that is why I mentioned it in my first reply despite the fact that you did not mention it was a bonus round. They have also dealt with this many times before, but most players understand that it is a bonus or free round and there are different outcomes because of that. Betsoft calculates all odds, payouts, bonuses, free spins and everything with regard to the casino games and they have been industry leaders for a very long time jasonort.

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jasonort: Is there anyway to dispute this with Betsoft?3 days 9 hours ago
I do understand your position in this situation. You're just the middleman between me and Betsoft. Do not take that as acceptance of Betsoft's ruling that I will not be paid the jackpot. There is nothing in the rules that state I should not have won. If you will not to dispute this for me, I would like to take it up directly with Betsoft. Could you kindly provide me with the contact information for the person you deal with at Betsoft. Could you also provide me any technical information related directly to my spin that should have triggered jackpot. Spin ID, transaction ID, or any other information that I would need to provide to them to dispute their findings. I had hoped that as a valued customer that you would see I have a valid argument, and would fight this decision alongside me. I 100% disagree with the findings based on the fact that that it says nowhere on your site or their's that a bonus spin obtained with a max bet is not valid to win the jackpot. If you or Betsoft can provide me with this documentation where it clearly states this in the rules, then I am happy to drop my dispute. For now I believe I am still correct that I should have been paid the jackpot, and will move forward with the dispute through all channels available to me. I hope you'll help me with this endeavor.

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jasonort: I have submitted this to2 days 6 min ago
I have submitted this to Betsoft as well as to Curacao eGaming whom they are licensed through. I understand your apprehension to help me in this matter. You are dependent on Betsoft for your gaming software. Never bite the hand that feeds you. I also understand that this is not your decision, but theirs. I still feel that I am correct and I have been cheated out of a large jackpot. I may bring this to social media to get their attention. I will say nothing bad about Betcoin.ag as I know this is not your decision to make, and you have always been good to me. Any help you could offer me would be most appreciated in pursuing this, but I understand the position you are in, and the power that Betsoft holds over your industry.

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Betcoin Jessica: We don't have any1 day 23 hours ago
We don't have any apprehension about helping you. The point is this isn't the first time this has happened. Most people understand this clearly and move on especially due to the fact that it is a bonus round and you can't even bet the max that qualifies for the jackpot. Betsoft has sent the following email to us that we share with you:

"Thank you for your inquiry. We can confirm that your win was correct in this situation. A maximum bet for this game is the highest denomination which is 1.00, whereas in this particular round, you bet 0.50, even though you chose 'Max Bet', the jackpot is only won when it is the maximum bet (1.00)."

We are certainly here for you anytime.

0
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jasonort: Jessica, 1 day 23 hours ago
Jessica,

I find that statement by BetSoft to be totally false. The Jackpot listed within the game adjusts up or down according to the bet denomination. The jackpot for .50 was roughly 1,000,000. When the denomination increases to 1.00 the jackpot lists at 2,000,000. When you reduce to .25 the jackpot lists 500,000. A Max bet for this game is 125 credits or 5 credits x 25 lines. Again my fight is not with you. You all have been great to me as a player. I am not willing to move on because I feel that I am correct. At the very least BetSoft needs to adjust the pay table to have language stating that a bonus spin will not qualify for the jackpot. Currently they do not. This is at the very least misleading, and at the worst unfair gaming practice.

0
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jasonort: Everyone but you agrees with me5 hours 29 min ago
Everyone that I have brought this to agrees that this should have triggered the jackpot. AskGamblers.com is a very reputable gambling site that helps to resolve problems between casinos and their customers. Here is their response.

Zoya (AskGamblers Support)
Jun 18, 14:55 CEST

Dear Jason,

You were right. Additional information did change their mind.

Our suggestion to you is to complaint against the casino (Betcoin.ag) that you played the game and the jackpot was not validated and paid. Casino is supposed to be responsible for such issues and at least conduct some serious investigation and provide all the necessary proofs if there was such jackpot winning spin or not...

Unfortunately mentioned casino is not listed at AskGamblers, so you are not able to submit complaint using AskGamblers Complaint Services, since we do not offer that possibility for casinos that havent been reviewed yet by AskGamblers. Please check if casino has their own complaint services. If not, you may try to seek further help with Licence Authorities of Casino.

I hope that we managed to help you at least with these advices.

Sincerely,

Zoya, Customer Support - support@askgamblers.com

Zoya
Zoya (AskGamblers Support)
Jun 18, 14:41 CEST

Dear Jason,

I have just passed that info to our complaint department. I will let you know as soon as I receive feedback from them.

Sincerely,

Zoya, Customer Support - support@askgamblers.com


Jun 18, 14:37 CEST

Zoya,

Thank you again. One additional piece of information that might change their mind. The jackpot value changes as you change your bet denomination. At 0.50 max bet jackpot is roughly 1,000,000. Increase bet to 1.00 and jackpot changes to 2,000,000. When you press "max bet" button to spin the reels, it bets 125 credits for every denomination. Does this information change the opinion of the complaint department?

Zoya
Zoya (AskGamblers Support)
Jun 18, 13:06 CEST

Dear Jason,

I would like to inform you what our complaint department said regarding your issue.

After they have reviewed complaint that you described in the email sent to BetSoft, they have came to conclusion that you didn't play at max bet when you hit the 5 yachts and that is why game didn't pay the jackpot. You were supposed to choose not only max bet per line, but also max coin denomination, which for this is not 0.50, but 1.00.

I Hope the explanation provided above clarifies the situation.

Sincerely,

Zoya, Customer Support - support@askgamblers.com

Zoya
Zoya (AskGamblers Support)
Jun 18, 09:04 CEST

Dear Jason,

Thank you for understanding:)

I have already sent your email to our complaint department, so they may at least read it and if possible give you any advice.

I will let you know as soon as I receive any feedback from them.

Sincerely,

Zoya, Customer Support - support@askgamblers.com

Jun 18, 08:50 CEST

Thank you for your help, and I understand. Being someone who has seen many disputes I would be interested in your opinion on this matter. Do you think my claim is a valid one?

Zoya
Zoya (AskGamblers Support)
Jun 18, 08:34 CEST

Dear Jason,

I am really sorry, but I have to inform you that AskGamblers complaint services are only available against Casinos. Unfortunately you are not able to submit complaint here at AskGamblers against other sources then Casino.

I can only suggest to you to try solving this issue out directly with them, but you have already done that. I hope that they will be cooperative and that they will resolve your issue as soon as possible.

We would like to be informed about the progress and final outcome of your battle with Betsoft. Please keep us posted, if you do not mind.

I wish you good luck!

Have a nice day Jason.

Sincerely,

Zoya, Customer Support - support@askgamblers.com


Jun 18, 06:14 CEST

Dear askgamblers,

I would like to file a complaint, but my complaint is not against the casino that I play at (Betcoin.ag), but with the software provider (BetSoft Gaming) of the game that I have the complaint about. I am not sure how to proceed with this, and would like your assistance. Here is the email that I have sent to support at BetSoft, but have not received a response. The email describes in detail my complaint.

Dear Betsoft,

I believe that I should have been paid a jackpot while playing "The Glam Life" at Betcoin.ag. This occurred at about 10:58 CST on June 14th. I was playing at the .50 credit level, and betting the max bet of 5 credits per line. My spin matched 3 planes to 2 paylines generating 4 bonus spins. On the 4th bonus spin I matched 5 yachts across the payline which should have paid the jackpot. I was instead paid only 1000 credits. There is no language on your site, on Betcoin.ag's site, nor on the pay table for the game that says that a bonus spin does not qualify for the jackpot. It simply says match 5 yachts on the payline at the max bet to win the jackpot. I clearly bet the max amount, and as you can see from the screenshot here http://imgur.com/UQxeVni I have matched 5 yachts on the payline. The bet line says 125 which is max bet, the payline shows 5 yachts. How does that not win the jackpot? I have pursued this matter with Betcoin.ag, they have informed me that you are the final decision-makers as I was directly connected to your servers through them. And any payout would have to come from you. If I am missing something, and there is clearly something in writing that states for this game that bonus spins are not eligible for the jackpot, please show me where. Please advise. Thank you.

I have attached screenshots of both the payline from the spin in question as well as the screenshot I took of the pay table listed. I am asking you to please help bring this to BetSoft's attention and help me to resolve my dispute. Thank you for any help you can offer.

Attachment(s)
Glam Life Jackpot.jpg
Glam Life Pays.jpg
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June 20, 2016, 04:09:10 AM
 #13

Here is the image of the bet from my Betsoft account:

http://imgur.com/QNODUAp

Is the ExtID a number from BetSoft?
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June 20, 2016, 04:13:18 AM
 #14

I did some digging when I saw OPs post on Betcoin and how aggressively comments were being censored.  It's shocking how non-transparent Betsoftgaming software is. As few explanations, terms or conditions as possible.  The game in question has a $3m progressive, but don't explain where it comes from or how it's won other than "5 yachts on max bet".  



Pretty unreal.

As usual, Betcoin makes everything as shady as possible by attempting to cover it up and make OP feel like shit for being such a crybaby.  I've personally had over 50 posts removed in the last 2 days and will continue to post all the facts below on their own forum.

Here are the facts:

  • Glamlife is a progressive jackpot game provided by Betsoft Gaming
  • When changing from one denomination to another, the Progressive Jackpot also changes. This indicates that each denomination has it's own independent Jackpot.
  • Currently, for the Highest denomination Betcoin advertises the Glam Life Progressive Jackpot as 3,872.26 BTC (3,872.26 BTC, current value of ~$2.9 Million USD) as Seen here:



  • Jason was playing with .5 mbtc denomination and the Jackpot displayed 1,007,249.91 (503.6249 BTC current value of ~$383,000)
  • The only requirement that can be found anywhere within the game, Betcoin.ag or Betsoft.com/ is "5 Yacht Icons on Max Bet wins Jackpot"
  • At .5 denomination Jason placed the maximum bet of 5 credits x 25 lines = 125 credits or 0.062 BTC (~$45 at the time).
  3 Scatters Triggered 4 Extra Spins (note: no multiplier or anything to indicate that alternative reels were in play)
   On thefinal spin, 5 Yacht Symbols landed on Payline 1.





  • Jason was paid 1000 credits (0.5 BTC) for the spin.
  • Betcoin.ag staff deleted all posts in the thread that had criticism of either Betcoin or Betsoft, posted the following message relayed from Betsoftgaming and locked the thread.  I only archived one of the deleted comments: https://archive.is/eE55g
Quote
Thank you for your inquiry. We can confirm that your win was correct in this situation. A maximum bet for this game is the highest denomination which is 1.00, whereas in this particular round, you bet 0.50, even though you chose 'Max Bet', the jackpot is only won when it is the maximum bet (1.00).



  • Since locking the thread there has been no response to the appearance of each denomination having its own seperate Jackpot.
  • Betcoin Moderator Plo8s comment on Issue (It's standard for him to defend Betcoin with nonsense):
Quote
plo8monster: thats totally not true lol ungod ... the bonus max out at 1000chips, and the vendor has that rule .. betcoin dont pay it the vendor does ... you guys all jump on bandwagon ... but these are vendors that do sports and casino games ..... I dont have time to get into this tonight ...but the vendor limits bonus wins @ 1000 chips .... if he were spending his money and made that spin he would be Phat with coin

-Betcoin Andrews response on deleted comments via private chat:

Quote
(10:13:16) *** Betcoin Andrew joined the chat ***
(10:13:16) *** twitchyseal joined the chat ***
(10:15:47) twitchyseal: hey andrew, you know anything about my vanishing post?
(10:17:21) Betcoin Andrew: Our casino providers do an excellent job and are used by the top online casinos. We cannot have those type of comments about them in the forum as they are constantly reviewing our website.
(10:17:26) *** Betcoin Andrew left the chat ***

  • About Betsoftgaming

-In March 2013, Betsoft was granted a Category 1 license from the Alderny Gaming Control Commision (AGCC) : http://www.betsoft.com/media/betsoft-gaming-announces-completion-alderney

-July 2014, AGCC ordered Betsoft to "cease to offer gambling specific software to Category 1 eGambling licensees, Category 2 eGambling licensees and Category 2 Associate Certificate holders" pending the result of a hearing set for October 2014
https://www.gamblingcontrol.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AGCC-Notice-R...

-October 2014, 3 days before scheduled hearing, Betsoft surrendered their license and rights to provide class 1 e-gaming to casinos located within AGCC jurisdiction:
https://www.gamblingcontrol.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Digitus-notic...








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June 20, 2016, 05:50:46 AM
 #15

Here is the email I sent to Curacao eGaming which licenses BetSoft.  I also copied BetSoft Support and Betcoin.ag Support.

Jason Ortmeier <jlo41074@gmail.com>
Attachments12:41 AM (15 minutes ago)

to complaints, support, support

To whom it may concern,

I am alleging unfair gaming practices by one of your licensees, BetSoft gaming.  I placed a wager on a slot machine "The Glam Life" through Betcoin.ag who uses Betsoft software for this game.  The wager was the maxiimum bet allowed for the denomination (.50 credits) which was 5 bets per line x 25 lines, for a wager of 125 credits.  The spin resulted in winning 4 bonus spins.  On the 4th bonus spin the game showed 5 Yachts on the payline.  According to the pay table for this game this should have resulted in winning the jackpot.  I wagered the maximum bet, received the required combination of symbols (5 Yachts) on the payline,  but instead of a jackpot I received only 1000 credits.  I have received 2 explanations for this from BetSoft via Betcoin.ag's support staff.  The first said that the spin was ineligible for the jackpot because it was a bonus spin.  The evidence I use to refute this claim is the pay table which has no such language.  Nowhere does it state that a bonus spin is ineligible to win the jackpot.  Further the fact that I was paid 1000 credits proves that it was a maximum bet as the paytable shows that 5 yachts pays 200 credits x the number of bets per line.  In this case 5 (which is the maximum allowed).  200 x 5 = 1000 credits, thus proving a max bet.  The second explanation stated that a jackpot only occurs if the max bet is made at the highest denomination (1.00 credits), and I was only playing at the 0.50 denomination.  This is easily refuted by looking at the game itself.  The jackpot amount changes with the denomination played.  At the 0.50 denomination the jackpot is roughly 1,000,000 credits (See screen capture for exact disputed amount).  When the denomination is increased to 1.00 the jackpot doubles to approximately 2,0000,000 credits.  This clearly refutes the second explanation as the jackpot is variable by the denomination played, and not requiring a bet denomination of 1.00.  I am asking you to intervene in this matter and prove that you are a reputable gaming authority that does not tolerate unfair gaming practices by its licensees.  I have included screen captures for both the spin in question and for the stated pay table at the time the wager was made.

Respectfully yours,

Jason Ortmeier
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June 20, 2016, 05:59:27 AM
 #16

Check out https://www.casinolistings.com/jackpots/betsoft/glam-life-jackpot

They track the jackpot on bodog for same game and list a seperate jackpot for each denom.

Pretty strong evidence you got at least one bullshit response from both Betcoin and Betsoft.

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June 20, 2016, 06:07:24 AM
 #17

Here is the chat transcript with support on the night of my wager.  Betcoin Aidan's opinion is that this should be paid.  He was aware that this was a bonus spin..


Chat started on 15 Jun 2016, 03:52 AM (GMT+0)
(03:52:14)   *** Jason joined the chat ***
(03:52:14)   Jason: I just got 5 Yachts in a row on Glam Life with Max Bet. Should have won Jackpot, but only got 1000 credits.
(03:53:20)   *** Betcoin Aidan joined the chat ***
(03:53:21)   Betcoin Aidan: Please kindly create a ticket so I can escalate it to management. Once completed please provide me the ticket number. https://www.betcoin.ag/node/add/ticket
(03:56:00)   Jason: Could we please handle this ASAP? This should have been a major jackpot win. I'm really upset. Ticket #57771
(03:56:12)   Jason: I have a screenshot of the win. How can I get it to you?
(03:56:28)   Betcoin Aidan: please upload it to imgur for example and post the link in the ticket
(03:56:37)   Jason: 1,007,249.91 Jackpot
(03:58:02)   Jason: http://imgur.com/UQxeVni
(03:58:10)   Betcoin Aidan: post it in the ticket please
(03:58:11)   Jason: Please take a look at it. I will post to ticket as well
(03:59:50)   Jason: Posted. Is there a manager on duty right now?
(04:00:12)   Betcoin Aidan: I am waiting for an answer, but it might take a while
(04:00:35)   Jason: Any chance they can join the chat?
(04:00:46)   Jason: Did you see screenshot?
(04:00:58)   Betcoin Aidan: Yes but you won't hear anything new, that has to be checked in casino backend by him
(04:01:43)   Jason: Why would it not pay Jackpot?
(04:02:02)   Betcoin Aidan: how could I know that yet
(04:02:08)   Betcoin Aidan: are you sure you made a max bet?
(04:02:28)   Jason: OK sorry. Yes check the bet line in the screenshot.
(04:04:45)   Jason: Any chance I could get the manager to call me? My cell phone number is 1-XXX-XXX-XXXX
(04:05:23)   Betcoin Aidan: I understand the hype, but my hands are tied at the moment. Once I receive an answer, I will inform you
(04:05:35)   Jason: OK
(04:16:04)   Jason: Were you able to get in touch with management?
(04:18:37)   Betcoin Aidan: not yet, I am sorry
(04:19:23)   Jason: This is horrible.
(04:20:37)   Jason: Has anyone at your casino ever won a major jackpot?
(04:20:59)   Betcoin Aidan: yes that happened a month ago or so
(04:21:06)   Jason: How much?
(04:22:15)   Betcoin Aidan: I am not really aware, was not during my shift
(04:23:15)   Jason: When you look at the picture do you think I should have won jackpot? I know it is just your opinion, but what do you think?
(04:30:12)   Jason: Still there?
(04:30:31)   Betcoin Aidan: Yes, I am sorry but I am serving 8 people at the moment
(04:31:03)   Jason: Sorry.
(04:47:43)   Jason: When you get a minute could you please look at the imgur screenshot? I would really value your opinion on whether you think this is a jackpot winning spin.
(04:48:23)   Betcoin Aidan: I am not aware with that slot, that is why I can't say.
(04:48:38)   Jason: OK
(05:18:00)   Betcoin Aidan: I investigated on my own and I see that you made the 5 yachts hit on a free spin round. I might mislead you but free spins are not counted as a maximum bet as it does not take anything from your balance.
(05:19:02)   Jason: Are you serious? I had Max bet on the table. Where does it say anything in the rules about that not counting?
(05:19:15)   Betcoin Aidan: As I said, I might not be correct
(05:19:32)   Betcoin Aidan: it is a tricky situation here and it is not me who got the 100% accurate and final word on that
(05:19:59)   Jason: When do managers arrive to your location?
(05:20:27)   Betcoin Aidan: they are not at my location, our office is in a different country
(05:20:46)   Jason: Where is the office? What time zone?
(05:21:03)   Betcoin Aidan: London
(05:21:14)   Jason: OK
(05:38:25)   Betcoin Aidan: my shift is now over, but I wrote a big review on this situation and forwarded it to our internal channel. It will be reviewed absolute prior once a supervisor pop up.
(05:38:56)   Jason: ok thank you
(05:39:19)   Betcoin Aidan: You are most welcome. This is quite rare situation so it might take some time, please keep that in mind
(05:39:56)   Jason: Maybe 1st time ever anyone hit 5 yachts
(05:40:32)   Betcoin Aidan: the problem is not the 5 yachts but the freespin round, as internally it counts as a 0 bet
(05:40:34)   Betcoin Aidan: since it is free
(05:40:58)   Betcoin Aidan: but my personal opinion is that it should be counted as max
(05:41:04)   Betcoin Aidan: since it was triggered with max bet
(05:41:05)   Jason: I have looked everywhere in rules. I does not way that
(05:41:14)   Jason: even on BetSoft Website
(05:41:33)   Jason: Does not say that free spins on max bet don't count
(05:42:29)   Betcoin Aidan: I understand and trust me I did everything I can. Now that is in my superiors hands and I believe and hope the resolution will be quick
(05:44:29)   Jason: Thank you Aidan
(05:44:36)   *** Jason has rated the chat Good ***
(05:48:10)   *** Betcoin Aidan left the chat ***
(06:53:45)   *** Jason left the chat ***

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June 20, 2016, 06:11:36 PM
 #18

I have to say it does look pretty scammy how Betcoin.ag refuse to take any responsibility in the matter and instantly attribute it to "being on Betsoft servers". Unless this "mistake" was a regular occurrence they should be backing you up on this when speaking with Betsoft. At the very least they need to contribute something and make it right. Unfortunately long term you have to avoid these sorts of sites and software, because they can all too easily be rigged against you like this.

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June 20, 2016, 06:35:20 PM
 #19

damn thats sick sure looks like you won the JP to me
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June 20, 2016, 08:40:20 PM
 #20

Sad thing is this doesn't surprise me at all hearin this news.  If they dont pay OP i hope he burns betcoin rep thats only bc of all the shills to the ground so something good comes from it. Gonna happen some day anyway im sure.
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