My Beef with BFL (Constructive Criticism Only)

[Frankie Delaney]

I care about bitcoins and frankly even though I have  asics on order the problem is not bfl asicminer or avalon.  It is the bitcoin developers they allowed this to happen by allowing preorder system.  They simply could have banned asics until a seller had them built.  Instead they put all the risk on the miners.

Can you elaborate this statement, please? How exactly could the bitcoin developers have banned any specific payments or mining devices?

   Sure when bfl posted back in june the developers could have simply said no unit that hashes over  29Gh will work at bit mining. Until said developer shows working prototype all workers are capped at 30Gh.
  At the time I think some Fpga rigs could do  25 to 27Gh. This would have forced builders to build the rigs first since they won't be allowed to work unless tested.  Capping a worker at 25 or 30  or 40 Gh should be simple to do.  Now the network is in the hands of a few rather then many. 

 This would have  meant buying an asic  from bfl back in june would be far less attractive then it was.  Buying an asic is still crazy stupid hard to do (if buying means getting it in a week or less) and that is really bad for bitcoin.

 Frankly I have 78GH (2x little singles + 2x jalapeños)  on order from BFL I don't expect to ever see it  , but I will get my money back since the orders are paypal. I will just get a refund every 40 days then order a week later.  So far I have done this twice. 

Basically take a good look at Avalon's actions They have sent out emails saying they are developing a mining farm and delaying the second batch along with the third batch getting a crazy price raise. There actions are bad as BFL's in every way except for the lucky 300.  The point I am making is asic's or the lack of the ability to buy them is going to kill bitcoins.  That is on the bitcoin program team not avalon not bfl and not asciminer. Since a 30 or 60 day ban on all workers with 30gh hash power would once again spread the network out instead of having a hand full of people or groups with most of the hash power.

Yeah, the free market has let us down. we need a central authority to place restrictions on the marketplace! rise up, comrade!

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[polrpaul]

I care about bitcoins and frankly even though I have  asics on order the problem is not bfl asicminer or avalon.  It is the bitcoin developers they allowed this to happen by allowing preorder system.  They simply could have banned asics until a seller had them built.  Instead they put all the risk on the miners.

Can you elaborate this statement, please? How exactly could the bitcoin developers have banned any specific payments or mining devices?

   Sure when bfl posted back in june the developers could have simply said no unit that hashes over  29Gh will work at bit mining. Until said developer shows working prototype all workers are capped at 30Gh.
  At the time I think some Fpga rigs could do  25 to 27Gh. This would have forced builders to build the rigs first since they won't be allowed to work unless tested.  Capping a worker at 25 or 30  or 40 Gh should be simple to do.  Now the network is in the hands of a few rather then many. 

 This would have  meant buying an asic  from bfl back in june would be far less attractive then it was.  Buying an asic is still crazy stupid hard to do (if buying means getting it in a week or less) and that is really bad for bitcoin.

 Frankly I have 78GH (2x little singles + 2x jalapeños)  on order from BFL I don't expect to ever see it  , but I will get my money back since the orders are paypal. I will just get a refund every 40 days then order a week later.  So far I have done this twice. 

Basically take a good look at Avalon's actions They have sent out emails saying they are developing a mining farm and delaying the second batch along with the third batch getting a crazy price raise. There actions are bad as BFL's in every way except for the lucky 300.  The point I am making is asic's or the lack of the ability to buy them is going to kill bitcoins.  That is on the bitcoin program team not avalon not bfl and not asciminer. Since a 30 or 60 day ban on all workers with 30gh hash power would once again spread the network out instead of having a hand full of people or groups with most of the hash power.

With all due respect, you are off your rocker but I trust you know this already - blaming the bitcoin dev team for not capping workers the way you suggested??

Silly rabbit, asics are for trix!

[ButchHashidy]

Saw this on unofficial IRC. I'll let you guys pick it apart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C4bgho5JSI

Can you embed on here? Is it that flash tag?!

dissection commencing .. 5, 4, 3, 2 .......

[Entropy-uc]

They are selling their product with a 30 day ROI price point.

Yes, they are selling. But not delivering. Avalon has openly said they will mine a bit for themselves. Look at that 15 Terahash added on the 28th of March. 10 x 1,5TH BFL Mini Rigs? Then a Price Dump on MT Gox on that same day from 90ies down to 70ies (over 20% drop). I say someone just made half a million dollars, and it wasn't me with my GPUs.

Also, please show me a BitCoin Miner who isn't greedy. This is a game full of crooks, kids and those who have jobs and can code (pool operators).

Well I mine bitcoin.  And I took $800 out of my pocket to warn newbies about BFL last week.  I've bid $475 to do the same next week.  Am I greedy?

As for Avalon, what they said was:  "If people don't want to pay the price we think is fair, we will mine for ourselves."

[nathanrees19]

2. They sacrificed 125 customer ordered singles to "test" chips 3 days early, while they still haven't actually been able to test the chips

Sorry, but that's not how it works. To refer to a wafer as "customer ordered singles" is as stupid as calling it a "sacrifice" to perform functional testing.

If customers were ordering slices of that particular wafer, with each die individually marked as belonging to a particular order, then BFL would simply have shipped wafer to their customers.

Am i doing this right?

In the context of this thread? Absolutely.

[Humanxlemming]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4C4bgho5JSI

they are using your money/coins to develop and build the units they will probably not even begin dispatching till july.

[moni3z]

Any update? I considered buying one of these once upon a time

[AzNmeowmeow]

Well one of their employees got the hardware but HIS it uses more juice than what they said it would.
and they've shown decent amount of proof to not be a scam, not to mention they've sold earlier mining hardware.

[Dalkore]

Well one of their employees got the hardware but HIS it uses more juice than what they said it would.
and they've shown decent amount of proof to not be a scam, not to mention they've sold earlier mining hardware.

The hardware is still in the lab and the developer left the country.  Not a scam but not shipping either.

[BitCoinLoft]

Well one of their employees got the hardware but HIS it uses more juice than what they said it would.
and they've shown decent amount of proof to not be a scam, not to mention they've sold earlier mining hardware.

The hardware is still in the lab and the developer left the country.  Not a scam but not shipping either.

If they don't ship it anytime soon then there will bo no difference from scam. They can bring gazillion of reasons, objective and subjective for explaining the delays. Damn, I almost did pre order two devices from BFL. Better stick to my FPGA. 

[flaab]

Who cares? They made 100million already.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

All posts in this thread are off-topic except this one because I incorporated a keyword from its title, sans the e's, thus making this post true.



I wonder if there is such a thing as Joshin' Jerky.

[Entropy-uc]

I've paid for another ad, and pointed it to a thread 'trust no one' in Scam Accusations.

I have a slot reserved for a topic on BFL, but don't have time to write it.

If someone would do so and PM to me I will post it with credit.

Please stick to facts, and documenting the history of lies, broken promises and failures.

Where every that 'Bunch of Fucking Liars' picture is, it would make a great introduction image.

[moni3z]

I've paid for another ad, and pointed it to a thread 'trust no one' in Scam Accusations.

I have a slot reserved for a topic on BFL, but don't have time to write it.

If someone would do so and PM to me I will post it with credit.

Please stick to facts, and documenting the history of lies, broken promises and failures.

Where every that 'Bunch of Fucking Liars' picture is, it would make a great introduction image.

Their own forums are full of examples, like these assembly line units that are stock photos, claiming they are currently being installed with a "full team to run them" yet they never followed up with any sort of proof they actually own these, to my knowledge.

why one of this photo was made in 2009 year ? and last one "Processed By eBay with ImageMagick, R1.1.1.M2b " to add this pictuer date ' 09/15/2012' ?? do you buy this stuff on ebay ? which auction id ?

This sucks because I would be all over these so I could write my own mining software for them. I'd drop $10k today if at least one verifiable prototype was proven to exist. Guess I'm stuck with exponentially increasing Avalon 4th batch prices

[Entropy-uc]

Theymos has rejected my ad which had the text.  BFL: Bald Faced Liars!

That's a little extreme. BFL supporters will call it slander and say that you can't prove that BFL has ever lied. I don't want too much drama. Can you please stick to undeniable facts or obvious statements of opinion?

I'll keep your old ad for now.

Thanks.

BFL has lied hundreds of times.  Every claimed shipping date they have ever published is a demonstrated lie.  They said they would guarantee hash rates better than all their competition, which is now shown to be a lie. 

How long did Inaba pretend to not be involved with BFL when he clearly had an ongoing business relationship? 

Post the ad as submitted or refund my coins.

[Trance104]

I'm proud of you for sticking up for us little folks. How much did this ad run you? I may kick some coinage your way.

[Entropy-uc]

I'm proud of you for sticking up for us little folks. How much did this ad run you? I may kick some coinage your way.

This week I paid 5.75 BTC.  But I anticipate that will be refunded as Theymos doesn't find it plausible that BFL are liars.

I would ask you not to contribute, I will probably be refunding everything contributed so far.

Theymos is not so stupid to think there isn't obvious proof of lies on BFL's part.  Nor is he foolish enough to think that the BoB fiasco is in any way unclear.

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine what that means about this site.

[minternj]

We get it. No ones refuting that they have lied. Do we need a reminder every 10 minutes?

[tvbcof]

I'm proud of you for sticking up for us little folks. How much did this ad run you? I may kick some coinage your way.

This week I paid 5.75 BTC.  But I anticipate that will be refunded as Theymos doesn't find it plausible that BFL are liars.

I would ask you not to contribute, I will probably be refunding everything contributed so far.

Theymos is not so stupid to think there isn't obvious proof of lies on BFL's part.  Nor is he foolish enough to think that the BoB fiasco is in any way unclear.

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine what that means about this site.

These things take time.  Give poor ~theymos another 6 months of BFL bullshit excuses and general slimyness and see if he's come around.  I mean he ran ~nefario through the wringer for what seems to the casual observer to be far fewer indiscretions...although not necessarily similarly distributed ones somehow.

[Entropy-uc]

I'm proud of you for sticking up for us little folks. How much did this ad run you? I may kick some coinage your way.

This week I paid 5.75 BTC.  But I anticipate that will be refunded as Theymos doesn't find it plausible that BFL are liars.

I would ask you not to contribute, I will probably be refunding everything contributed so far.

Theymos is not so stupid to think there isn't obvious proof of lies on BFL's part.  Nor is he foolish enough to think that the BoB fiasco is in any way unclear.

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine what that means about this site.

These things take time.  Give poor ~theymos another 6 months of BFL bullshit excuses and general slimyness and see if he's come around.  I mean he ran ~nefario through the wringer for what seems to the casual observer to be far fewer indiscretions...although not necessarily similarly distributed ones somehow.

Crossing Theymos seems to be the only thing that gets you a scammer tag anymore.