Account farming. Allowed?

[rizzlarolla]

Signature campaigns have got "a bit" cleaner lately, since my input was making clear how many "farmed" accounts were taking the places of real members. (not that many real members would want to advertise the latest batch of scams would they?)

I would only modify this statement to better reflect the situation by changing it to:"Some signature campaigns..". There are plenty of those that are full of shitposters.

Ok, i can probably agree with that. After all, i know how much work it can be to fight this problem when there is an endless supply of new farmed accounts ready to try to replace "blacklisted" accounts. You were the only mod i could see doing anything.
(but now you got yourself fired)

The forum was on it's knee's under the weight of spam until (i speculate) i forced SMAS to pretend to be against spam.
But previously they helped create the problem.

You have? That must have been something during the first SMAS attempt. IIRC it was me who revived it with the blacklist idea when I started to manage Bitmixer.

I think we both played a part in getting things done, and making things clearer. It can only be a sticking plaster against this.
Two (global?) mods have told me tonight i should get a new hobby. Piss off rizzlarolla?
They have not acted against farmed accounts. They love Fatanut?

Senior DT members must also be involved. Their inaction shows this.

Yes, and no. It is really hard to say who pulls what strings in certain cases. However, a lot of 'serious DT' members have abandoned this 'ship' due to inaction.

Yeah, a lot are gone, some are sold(?). The remainer's (in the higher ranks) have overseen bitcointalks decline.
I'm not well versed in DT.

It feels to me like Greg maxwell is also compliant. He moderates here.

If I'm correct, he spends very little time in here. There's no need to target individuals though. No staff member has the 'power' to do a 'cleanup' or make 'desired changes'.

Ok, i probably should have said core or blockstream? Luke j also moderates?
It is a failure by association. They are linked to theymos here and elsewhere.
This failure likely suits their agenda also.

Others here (or gone more likely) must see the same.

Correct. See my previous remark on DT members.

That is evident by the response's in this thread over 5 months. Nothing, or nearly nothing.

Quite "thought provoking" my post. You don't seem to have any real big problem with my thinking Lauda?

[Lauda]

After all, i know how much work it can be to fight this problem when there is an endless supply of new farmed accounts ready to try to replace "blacklisted" accounts. You were the only mod i could see doing anything. (but now you got yourself fired)

Indeed. They keep on coming, although I think they may be more oriented towards the altcoin projects (I may be wrong). I'm also not going to comment the activities of any particular staff member.

Two (global?) mods have told me tonight i should get a new hobby. Piss off rizzlarolla?

One is a global moderator, the other is not. I'll just leave this as a comment:

Yeah, a lot are gone, some are sold(?). The remainer's (in the higher ranks) have overseen bitcointalks decline. I'm not well versed in DT.

Correct. Some do get sold and some end up scamming (there was a case this very month IIRC). I can explain the trust system properly; just PM me if you want.

Ok, i probably should have said core or blockstream? Luke j also moderates?

From what I can see, luke-jr is not a moderator.

Quite "thought provoking" my post. You don't seem to have any real big problem with my thinking Lauda?

I've wanted to correct some minor mistakes as there are people who are just silently reading this. I'm pretty much with you on this, excluding the speculative thoughts as to who's behind it. I personally prefer not to speculate that much.

While I *in principle* agree with the spirit of what @rizzlarolla is saying, perhaps there are other scenarios that should be explored, for example who would want to discredit BitCoins? Real Banks or even law enforcement who might perceive (without understanding the power of BlockChain), that crypto currencies are a threat?

Interesting assertion. The situation is most surely damaging to the ecosystem.

[darklus123]

Quote from: Lauda on January 30, 2017, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: rizzlarolla on January 30, 2017, 07:32:51 PM
The forum was on it's knee's under the weight of spam until (i speculate) i forced SMAS to pretend to be against spam.
But previously they helped create the problem.
You have? That must have been something during the first SMAS attempt. IIRC it was me who revived it with the blacklist idea when I started to manage Bitmixer.

I think we both played a part in getting things done, and making things clearer. It can only be a sticking plaster against this.
Two (global?) mods have told me tonight i should get a new hobby. Piss off rizzlarolla?
They have not acted against farmed accounts. They love Fatanut?

This is quite intriguing on my part. To whom are you referring to. I am also doubtful if why would they say it? because in the first place I think you are doing a good job and besides it can help them looks for this certain accounts and finds out if they violates some rules.

[Lauda]

This is quite intriguing on my part. To whom are you referring to.

Here you go:

Any ideas?

Yeah, get a new hobby.

Make a script to watch the 1000 farmed accounts. Run it on a VPS or a VM or something like that. Program an "expiration" so that you don't literally watch it forever.

A new hobby is probably a better idea.

I am also doubtful if why would they say it?

I shall not comment on this, but rizzarolla might.

[rizzlarolla]

1. i don't think your wrong about that as i have been trying to show.
2. oh yes.
3. thanks
4. i was thinking of reddit? are there any other core/blockstream contributors moderating here?
5. i try to speculate based on research. we can't all just walk away can we? (as explained previously)

-------------------

I am also doubtful if why would they say it? because in the first place I think you are doing a good job and besides it can help them looks for this certain accounts and finds out if they violates some rules.

I shall not comment on this, but rizzarolla might.

i stated why the mods would say it on the previous page here?

[darklus123]

This is quite intriguing on my part. To whom are you referring to.

Here you go:

Any ideas?

Yeah, get a new hobby.

Make a script to watch the 1000 farmed accounts. Run it on a VPS or a VM or something like that. Program an "expiration" so that you don't literally watch it forever.

A new hobby is probably a better idea.

I am also doubtful if why would they say it?

I shall not comment on this, but rizzarolla might.

This is weird tho. I guess rizzlarolla was hurt in this statements?  Then you were also removed as a mod? Demn i am not just that good in politics anyways i ll just continue watching

[Lauda]

4. i was thinking of reddit? are there any other core/blockstream contributors moderating here?

I don't really follow reddit much besides occasionally reading it. The only moderator from Blockstream is Maxwell AFAIK.

5. i try to speculate based on research. we can't all just walk away can we? (as explained previously)

Indeed.

This is weird tho. I guess rizzlarolla was hurt in this statements?  

I wouldn't go that far and say that he was "hurt".

Then you were also removed as a mod?

That is not related to this case.

Demn i am not just that good in politics anyways i ll just continue watching

Then save us the bytes in here and PM people instead.

[Timelord2067]

While I *in principle* agree with the spirit of what @rizzlarolla is saying, perhaps there are other scenarios that should be explored, for example who would want to discredit BitCoins? Real Banks or even law enforcement who might perceive (without understanding the power of BlockChain), that crypto currencies are a threat?

Interesting assertion. The situation is most surely damaging to the ecosystem.

Especially if an Alt Farmer ^TM were commissioned by a third party to actually create thousands of Alts to destabilise BitCoinTalk.org - the farmer is already paid for the entire crop, not just one cherry off the tree at a time.

[rizzlarolla]

While I *in principle* agree with the spirit of what @rizzlarolla is saying, perhaps there are other scenarios that should be explored, for example who would want to discredit BitCoins? Real Banks or even law enforcement who might perceive (without understanding the power of BlockChain), that crypto currencies are a threat?

Interesting assertion. The situation is most surely damaging to the ecosystem.

Especially if an Alt Farmer ^TM were commissioned by a third party to actually create thousands of Alts to destabilise BitCoinTalk.org - the farmer is already paid for the entire crop, not just one cherry off the tree at a time.

That would not be a problem - unless theymos supported it.
That "Real Banks or even law enforcement" farmer could easily be detected and stopped.

If theymos thought his forum was being destabilised, he could have banned my farmed accounts before i had even found them! Easy. Problem solved.
(or well on the way to being solved)

In theymos's position, i could identify many, many more farmed accounts. If i had his access and tools, i could find them much quicker. Like he can.
(i have already found a few hundred other farmed accounts - unpublished - i have a job IRL)
theymos has Known of all my farmed accounts before i did.

He does not act because this is how he want's it.

[rizzlarolla]

4. i was thinking of reddit? are there any other core/blockstream contributors moderating here?

I thought i had seen his name here - Bitcoin Forum > Other > Meta > Bitcoin Wiki (Moderators: nanotube, Luke-Jr, SomeoneWeird) ?

[Yohji Yamamoto]

I haven't looked at this HateNATO case Timelord2067, guess i will at some point.
Do you know which accounts are/are not banned. - edit, i got it, Known alts thread!
---------------------------------------------------------------

"I'm begining to think @rizzlarolla may actually be right that the staff / admin of bitcointalk.org are doing more than just turning a blind eye to the scamming going on."
- Timelord2067.

Indeed, everything is pointing that way from where i'm looking.
There seems to be different farmed accounts for different purposes. Some scam or pump, some sell, some spam,. An evolving ecosystem.
I linked 209 ALPHABET accounts, explained and posted again here recently. (previous page) I am certain the ABCD accounts are the same farmer. And others. All unhindered by theymos. WTF is going on!

My "90" list (aug 8/9 accounts) published recently shows (if you read that way) how these accounts are not created for selling.
They are created for pumping the latest scam here. (Bitsler, waves, chronobank.io. stratis, Qtum to name a few)
Lulling newbies, and people who look but never register here, to part from their btc.
(most of the people scammed must be very naive, but that doesn't lessen the plot, and still blackens the btc perception)
(added - are these ico's now being made to order/rota "peimarily" for bitcointalk? more research needed, no time as yet)

If i can easily find these accounts, theymos already knows.

Of course, theymos will probably say these scams are legit business proposals. If they were, they would not need all these farmed accounts pumping would they, creating a false sense of legitimacy and popularity. (like my favourite scamcoin neucoin. they would pay cointelegraph to publish untruth's to deceive/scam their own readers)

I am a little time constrained in my searches, and am greatly hindered by the lack of any admin input (lol). The lack of any forum tools, or (usable) member search facility. (that has been disabled) theymos has never responded.

Signature campaigns have got "a bit" cleaner lately, since my input was making clear how many "farmed" accounts were taking the places of real members. (not that many real members would want to advertise the latest batch of scams would they?)
Farmed accounts probably created by campaign managers or admin to sig spam with impunity.
Any "innocent" campaign manager worth his salt would have seen they were paying farmed accounts.
The forum was on it's knee's under the weight of spam until (i speculate) i forced SMAS to pretend to be against spam.
But previously they helped create the problem.

Even Fatanut now running the sig campaign list, with full support from Yahoo.
Fatanut is a farmed account with many scammy "brother accounts". I see no evidence of that account being sold.
I wouldn't really care if it was sold. To me anyone buying an account does so to deceive here.

Senior DT members must also be involved. Their inaction shows this.

The forum hacks? Ok, maybe incompetence, but then to allow all the old accounts (that were hacked and sold?) to come back to life here.
Many are easily identifiable. Probably johnybigs? More profits for "scammers".

It feels to me like Greg maxwell is also compliant. He moderates here. He allows all this scamming of real bitcoiners.
Driving away adopters to keep his 1mb block intact, while building up monero.

Satoshi must be fuming. The go-to btc site, and the btc devs of "default" are killing what they should be nurturing - Bitcoin.
There is a bigger picture to find here.

Others here (or gone more likely) must see the same. Someone's gotta stand up for Bitcoin here.

I thought you were clever because you can be a FBI agent in investigation department, but you were not clever to guess their motivation-make bitcoin.

It is a joke you said: They are created for pumping the latest scam here. (Bitsler, waves, chronobank.io. stratis, Qtum to name a few).

You have no brain to speculate, you claim they are scams without evidences, just you see they bump them? Come on, they are all legit sites or projects if you do research.

Bitsler is famous dice site and never had a problem you call it scam?
Waves, chronobank, stratis are all good projects, you call them scam?
Bitcoin core dev, Nicolas Dorier is working at Stratis for their bitcoin C# full nodes.

Qtum is invested by famous bitcoin celebrities like Xu star(okcoin CEO), Bo Shen at Ripple, more info: https://qtum.org/team/

I suspect you are the altcoin hater claims every legit project is scam? There are so many fucking scams you don't blame but you blame legit projects which all people know. Otherwise you have low IQ lower than 70?

Mod is correct, get a new hobby. Without 10k or more active thousands of farmed accounts, farming is a double-edged sword, it helps the bitcoinn forum, without them, the forum can't be successful, bitcoin can't be either, if you are a bitcoiner, you should be happy on  the $1000 price. You need to thank them, they bring the traffic, help bitcoin websites, companies promote to get more customers, bitcoin get more users.

Mod is correct, get a new hobby. You, why not do some trading to make money, not be a police here, you want to be a mod, police? The world is unfair, you are so cynical, if you are so busying with finding accounts, why not make money instead?

[Timelord2067]

Archived for future reference: http://archive.is/lofp2#selection-5195.0-5227.465

(snip)

Mod is correct, get a new hobby. Without 10k or more active thousands of farmed accounts, farming is a double-edged sword, it helps the bitcoinn forum, without them, the forum can't be successful, bitcoin can't be either, if you are a bitcoiner, you should be happy about the $1000 price. Do more trading to make money, not be a police here, you want to be a mod, police? The world is unfair, if you are so busying with finding accounts, why not make money instead?

I notice Yohji Yamamoto is too afraid to use their Genesis Alt ^TM to post that claim.

[Yohji Yamamoto]

Archived for future reference: http://archive.is/lofp2#selection-5195.0-5227.465

(snip)

Mod is correct, get a new hobby. Without 10k or more active thousands of farmed accounts, farming is a double-edged sword, it helps the bitcoinn forum, without them, the forum can't be successful, bitcoin can't be either, if you are a bitcoiner, you should be happy about the $1000 price. Do more trading to make money, not be a police here, you want to be a mod, police? The world is unfair, if you are so busying with finding accounts, why not make money instead?

I notice Yohji Yamamoto is too afraid to use their Genesis Alt ^TM to post that claim.

I supported riz long time ago, but he ignored my posts, he ignores local spammers but only focus on English spammers? Local spammers are much more than English. Now I just think he is a man without real job, daily research in everyone? Cheers for wasting time!

Why you give me red trust? You fucking abuse your trust here. LMAO, you self-righteous world police like riz, get you life and a new hobby, like mod said.

I believe these 2 new threads,
Wings Spammers             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1663854.0
Russian Political Posters    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1666048.0

are explained by this post, the mr green list.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1597201.msg16405201#msg16405201

A (likely) new farmer. Russian, mainly in the Wings campaign, or Ark campaign, or ranking up.
There is also a (likely) new Chinese farmer.
(i strangely have "some" evidence to link both these farmers, and our original farmer, not conclusive)
My linked post connected accounts created on June 5 and 6, 2016.
I have found others, Russian farmed Wings sig accounts, from June 5, (yet to post)
and even more Russian farmed Wings sig accounts, and Chinese farmed accounts on June 6 (yet to post)

I have seen, and started to compile many new lists involving above farmer(s) creating accounts on many days in June 2016.
Not having any help off theymos or any admin here, i have no spreadsheets for this period. It's like working blind, thanks guys.

I know this farmer carries on after June. (i also know it carries on prior to June, back to my jan lists)

I have found a list for as recently as October 10, 2016. Russian farmed accounts, too new to be in Wings sig?
I'm not linking them here and now, but as evidence for any interested readers that farming still goes on unchecked, here are some of those farmed u=# from October 10, 2016

907392
907397
907399
907400
907401
907402
907405
907406

No one can compare Chinese farmers, each of te farmer has more than 30 accounts, you can google it for further topics.

[Gizfreak]

The solution? Start using a decent platform for discussing btc instead of this corrupt one.

[coolcoinz]

The solution? Start using a decent platform for discussing btc instead of this corrupt one.

What platform are you talking about? How would you stop people from farming accounts there?

[electronicash]

The solution? Start using a decent platform for discussing btc instead of this corrupt one.

What platform are you talking about? How would you stop people from farming accounts there?

just disallow the registration or kinda like how eric of gfy.com did it. registration are going to be approved one by one after registrant is going to email theymos about it.
we'll soon see one by one who sell accounts and then we'll mark each seller some feedback. the demands of account will be high and so does the price.
we can also mark sold accounts as sold to track each. this is going to be fun. 

[BitHodler]

The solution? Start using a decent platform for discussing btc instead of this corrupt one.

What platform are you talking about? How would you stop people from farming accounts there?

just disallow the registration or kinda like how eric of gfy.com did it. registration are going to be approved one by one after registrant is going to email theymos about it.
we'll soon see one by one who sell accounts and then we'll mark each seller some feedback. the demands of account will be high and so does the price.
we can also mark sold accounts as sold to track each. this is going to be fun.  

Staff doesn't have the time to go through all the just registered accounts to approve them or not. It's basically an impossible task with a forum of this magnitude.

I am however a supporter of marking obvious sold accounts, but it's quite hard to accomplish this with less obvious cases. Who is then the person that should mark these accounts? The seller? The escow in question?

[rizzlarolla]

Staff doesn't have the time to go through all the just registered accounts to approve them or not. It's basically an impossible task with a forum of this magnitude.

Sorry, that is wrong. As you said previously,

It doesn't take much effort for riz to chase down your other farmed accounts. You are shooting yourself in your foot right now.

theymos could easily identify/control farmed accounts. Much easier than me.
He just doesn't want to. He is most likely a big part of the organised ring scamming here.

By not acting over the last 5 months ignoring this thread, theymos has shown his approval of the situation.
700 farmed accounts listed by me, all scamming and/or spamming, unhindered by admin. Don't you see the picture here?

I have found hundreds more not-yet-published farmed accounts. theymos will have seen those accounts too.

[BitHodler]

Staff doesn't have the time to go through all the just registered accounts to approve them or not. It's basically an impossible task with a forum of this magnitude.

Sorry, that is wrong. As you said previously,

It doesn't take much effort for riz to chase down your other farmed accounts. You are shooting yourself in your foot right now.

theymos could easily identify/control farmed accounts. Much easier than me.
He just doesn't want to. He is most likely a big part of the organised ring scamming here.

By not acting over the last 5 months ignoring this thread, theymos has shown his approval of the situation.
700 farmed accounts listed by me, all scamming and/or spamming, unhindered by admin. Don't you see the picture here?

I have found hundreds more not-yet-published farmed accounts. theymos will have seen those accounts too.

With staff I was more referring to any non admin level staff member as the admins are too busy according to themselves. And when it comes to theymos, it's already known that he isn't planning to do anything regarding account farmers.

I however find it not really appropriate to link him to (in your words) organised ring scamming. He knows that the far majority of the accounts posting here are alt accounts, and thus banning them won't be a good move from his point of view.

If these accounts with their connected IPs get perma banned, the forum will look like an empty parking place. If you look at it from that point, then things aren't as easy as they might seem.

[actmyname]

With staff I was more referring to any non admin level staff member as the admins are too busy according to themselves. And when it comes to theymos, it's already known that he isn't planning to do anything regarding account farmers.

I however find it not really appropriate to link him to (in your words) organised ring scamming. He knows that the far majority of the accounts posting here are alt accounts, and thus banning them won't be a good move from his point of view.

If these accounts with their connected IPs get perma banned, the forum will look like an empty parking place. If you look at it from that point, then things aren't as easy as they might seem.

It might not be a good move financially, but wouldn't it benefit the community ecosystem more? If you think that the forum will look like an empty parking space, then that's simply absurd. Plenty of guests visit here (and perhaps lurkers who do not post) and lots of individuals (without tons of farmed accounts) are active on the forum, myself included. If you clear away the farmed accounts, then that will set a precedent - and it would not necessarily have to be repeated since the owners would be less inclined to create more just to have them banned [or perhaps there could be units of evil associated with their IPs].

Even if the accounts were 50% of active members, so what? This forum was not created solely to appeal to those who want to have an easy time shitting up the place. Let me ask you a question - would you rather earn your pay working in a place built out of guano, and having to wade through a sea of vomit... or instead have it halved, but have it take place in a clean office space with plenty of helpful co-workers?

(The analogy is not the best but it at the very least creates some imagery)


Maybe a decline in account farmers would also mean a decreased payout for signature campaigns, or even fewer campaigns in general - which would probably be good. If people are interested in the technology rather than the profit (albeit small) that they can make from Bitcoin, then we would see it grow more. Who's more likely to invest in it? Some jobless person who doesn't speak English running low on cash, or someone interested in what makes Bitcoin tick? Even a little intrigue goes a long way - I read through a good portion of the documentation and guide, and it was very enlightening.