My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.

[Barnabe]

How in the earth can someone take over 70 % of your money in order to pay the dept. I think that you have to be willing to help. I have no words. Sorry for your lose. Hope they will refund you.

Lol refund, they already forgot about it.
If there was/will be an election the next government will say that is was not their decision and no one in there will ever talk again about this.
They probably are planning the next theft.

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[Dapper]

not helpful for those doing IT in developing countries (because it's often necessary).... but for personal funds, one always needs to factor in country risk.    I'm earning great interest in a few Mongolian bank accounts, but no way would I put most of my funds there.   The bulk of my funds are in Singapore and Monaco... and I would quickly move them somewhere else if there were signals that things were going t*ts up.   

[STT]

After all, it was not they who started the loaning spree, it was their weak government.

Wasnt that government discredited in its actions and what they did broke the rules of entering the euro as they never qualified.   It seems Greece really should have defaulted and taken that path, its not nice but the process of default is hundreds of years old.   Every debt has risk and sometimes there is loss, breaking these rules trying to rewrite it is what is destroying Greece.  

Im listening to an hour long speech by Paul Mason alleging that capitalism has failed but all these events happening now are not capitalism.   Money is centralised & controlled, its very worth is not in the hands of the Greek people.   Capital centred around the people and owners of business within a country is capitalism, Greece is struggling to cope with their monetary worth determined by a foreign power.   I dont support racism or even nationalism but the very terms used in any discussion are incorrect and I never see anyone object.


Recognise failure, accept losses and avoid both in future, its a basic premise lasting many centuries.  Bailout is meaningless, its not capitalism and probably not even democratic


http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/mind-game-theory-economics-greeces-future-depends-emotion/3223
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HMs0kkUvq8

[MoorChael]

We are moving to small Caribbean country where authorities have more respect to people's assets.

So you trusted a small tax haven island with your money. The plan failed. Your next step: trusting even smaller tax haven island with your money. Pure logic 

An interesting observation

[molecular]

Nitpick: tax avoidance, not evasion. Evasion is illegal, avoidance is just (arguably) unethical.

Bitcoin is a pure tax avoidance\evasion!
Very few people in EU pay Bitcoin taxes

I do.

[hdbuck]

Nitpick: tax avoidance, not evasion. Evasion is illegal, avoidance is just (arguably) unethical.

Bitcoin is a pure tax avoidance\evasion!
Very few people in EU pay Bitcoin taxes

I do.

you're doing it wrong then.

[Beefcake]

Wow, this is crazy. Will this sort of thing also happen in Greece?
And it's scary that this is expected to be the same sort of restructuring that will affect EU banks. Is it safe to keep more than 100K EUR in any European banks at this point?

The EUR 100k limit is a temporary raise from EUR 20k and some countries have started lowering the limit back to EUR 20k

I think it is safe to assume that most of the money in most EU bank accounts does not really exist. AFAIK the last BIS Basel III 'accords' was for less than 8% Tier 1 capital backing. I.e. if more than 8% of the money in EU banks was to be withdrawn by the banks' customers they would be insolvent.

It is called fractional reserve banking, aka making up money out of thin air.  It is how those banks can lend out at low % interest rates and still have multi million dollar buildings on every street corner in major cities.

i just saw the OP, and it is really depressing.  I can only imagine how hard it is to start your own business, and to lose that hard work because of someone else's greed.  It is just not fair.  I really hope this does not happen in Greece as well.

[molecular]

Nitpick: tax avoidance, not evasion. Evasion is illegal, avoidance is just (arguably) unethical.

Bitcoin is a pure tax avoidance\evasion!
Very few people in EU pay Bitcoin taxes

I do.

you're doing it wrong then.

Correct. I made some mistakes.

[acquafredda]

Bitcoin is something completely different and therefore in my very humble opinion should not be taxed.

I would hope that any BTC to BTC transaction will be tax free while if one wants to cash out in fiat then one should pay taxes on it.

Any State or Nation or Federation or whatever have no rights on BTC!

[HarHarHar9965]

Bitcoin is something completely different and therefore in my very humble opinion should not be taxed.

I would hope that any BTC to BTC transaction will be tax free while if one wants to cash out in fiat then one should pay taxes on it.

Any State or Nation or Federation or whatever have no rights on BTC!

lot of places bitcoin is taxed as capital and all the profit made on bitcoins is considered as capital appreciation and taxed accordingly, which is not such a happy advantage for every day bitcoin users, rather damages the profit made with the investment. Do not avoid paying taxes, rather stay safe than launder the money.

[molecular]

Bitcoin is something completely different and therefore in my very humble opinion should not be taxed.

I would hope that any BTC to BTC transaction will be tax free while if one wants to cash out in fiat then one should pay taxes on it.

Any State or Nation or Federation or whatever have no rights on BTC!

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

I think bitcoin should be dealt with from a tax perspective like it was a foreign currency, but most jurisdictions have a different interpretation. Most apply capital gains tax because they categorize bitcoin as a commodity or some kind of private token. Some go as far (germany) as saying that VAT applies when bitcoins are sold, which I think is ludicrous.

Sure, no govt or nation has 'rights' on BTC, but that doesn't mean they can't tax circumstances involving bitcoin. They don't have right on copper either, yet all kinds of taxes apply when you deal in copper or do business involving copper.

[HarHarHar9965]

Bitcoin is something completely different and therefore in my very humble opinion should not be taxed.

I would hope that any BTC to BTC transaction will be tax free while if one wants to cash out in fiat then one should pay taxes on it.

Any State or Nation or Federation or whatever have no rights on BTC!

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

I think the meant transaction fees, referring it as BTC to BTC transactions. Taxes are everywhere, from the things we purchase to the internet we use, we are taxed for everything involving transactions, and they call it the charge of living in a civilized society. That's stupid, because I could hardly spot civilization in this crazy world. And about bitcoin and taxes, yes, its considered an asset and charged as capital.

[acquafredda]

Bitcoin is something completely different and therefore in my very humble opinion should not be taxed.

I would hope that any BTC to BTC transaction will be tax free while if one wants to cash out in fiat then one should pay taxes on it.

Any State or Nation or Federation or whatever have no rights on BTC!

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

I think bitcoin should be dealt with from a tax perspective like it was a foreign currency, but most jurisdictions have a different interpretation. Most apply capital gains tax because they categorize bitcoin as a commodity or some kind of private token. Some go as far (germany) as saying that VAT applies when bitcoins are sold, which I think is ludicrous.

Sure, no govt or nation has 'rights' on BTC, but that doesn't mean they can't tax circumstances involving bitcoin. They don't have right on copper either, yet all kinds of taxes apply when you deal in copper or do business involving copper.

When I say BTC to BTC transaction I mean when you and I do a BTC transaction.
Let's say I have 1 kg of tomatoes and you want to pay me 0.1 BTC.
In that case I don't want to pay any taxes on it.

I agree when you say that it should be considered like a foreign currency but BTC is much more than that.

I don't know there is too much confusion about the matter. I'm not a money launderer but I think at the moment there is no good solution about this.

[molecular]

Bitcoin is something completely different and therefore in my very humble opinion should not be taxed.

I would hope that any BTC to BTC transaction will be tax free while if one wants to cash out in fiat then one should pay taxes on it.

Any State or Nation or Federation or whatever have no rights on BTC!

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

I think bitcoin should be dealt with from a tax perspective like it was a foreign currency, but most jurisdictions have a different interpretation. Most apply capital gains tax because they categorize bitcoin as a commodity or some kind of private token. Some go as far (germany) as saying that VAT applies when bitcoins are sold, which I think is ludicrous.

Sure, no govt or nation has 'rights' on BTC, but that doesn't mean they can't tax circumstances involving bitcoin. They don't have right on copper either, yet all kinds of taxes apply when you deal in copper or do business involving copper.

When I say BTC to BTC transaction I mean when you and I do a BTC transaction.
Let's say I have 1 kg of tomatoes and you want to pay me 0.1 BTC.
In that case I don't want to pay any taxes on it.

I agree when you say that it should be considered like a foreign currency but BTC is much more than that.

I don't know there is too much confusion about the matter. I'm not a money launderer but I think at the moment there is no good solution about this.

Barter transactions are taxed (it's a "reciprocal sale") where I live (germany). Even if we swap a potato for a cucumber, we have to value the 2 things in EUR and if one of us is a company, VAT is due. If one of the goods is an asset, depending on the acquisition price and date of the potato/cucumber, gains tax might be due also. Various other taxes might also apply.

[Barnabe]

Bitcoin is something completely different and therefore in my very humble opinion should not be taxed.

I would hope that any BTC to BTC transaction will be tax free while if one wants to cash out in fiat then one should pay taxes on it.

Any State or Nation or Federation or whatever have no rights on BTC!

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

I think bitcoin should be dealt with from a tax perspective like it was a foreign currency, but most jurisdictions have a different interpretation. Most apply capital gains tax because they categorize bitcoin as a commodity or some kind of private token. Some go as far (germany) as saying that VAT applies when bitcoins are sold, which I think is ludicrous.

Sure, no govt or nation has 'rights' on BTC, but that doesn't mean they can't tax circumstances involving bitcoin. They don't have right on copper either, yet all kinds of taxes apply when you deal in copper or do business involving copper.

When I say BTC to BTC transaction I mean when you and I do a BTC transaction.
Let's say I have 1 kg of tomatoes and you want to pay me 0.1 BTC.
In that case I don't want to pay any taxes on it.

I agree when you say that it should be considered like a foreign currency but BTC is much more than that.

I don't know there is too much confusion about the matter. I'm not a money launderer but I think at the moment there is no good solution about this.

Barter transactions are taxed (it's a "reciprocal sale") where I live (germany). Even if we swap a potato for a cucumber, we have to value the 2 things in EUR and if one of us is a company, VAT is due. If one of the goods is an asset, depending on the acquisition price and date of the potato/cucumber, gains tax might be due also. Various other taxes might also apply.

I didn't know this kind of taxes existed. In France there was a similar system, a person would work some some kind of points in a website. And these points were traded between members, a hair dresser could cut the hair to some one for points which could be later be used to pay a plumber for instance. By doing this they could avoid taxes, the government was not very fond of this idea and was trying to tax it anyway.

[techgeek]

How in the earth can someone take over 70 % of your money in order to pay the dept. I think that you have to be willing to help. I have no words. Sorry for your lose. Hope they will refund you.

Its called people with power who has or own that system of control.

So regardless if you use that service, you basically are in risk of their procedures. The person obviously didnt know the extent of the banks financial situation which no one does and its just a victim.

It really does make you wonder, if that money was better off in cash in a vault.

[lissandra]

It s better to Save you money understand your bed like years ago, fuck The Bank

I think thats the moral of the story, pretty much.

Why would anyone want to repeat this guys experience, unless you have some insider ownership with the bank.

Sucks to read the op`s situation though.

[RealBitcoin]

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

Thats a big misconception, taxes arent on BITCOIN or USD or EUR or the currency itself.

Taxes are on you. You are the instrument that is taxed, not the currency. Or more precisely your actions/liberties are taxed. You are their tax slave and they tax your freedom (or your right) of doing an economic transactions or economic activity.

They cant tax bitcoin because bitcoin is not a living being, but they can tax you.

[RealBitcoin]

My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.

Correction it was your bank account but it wasn't your money in there.

In legal terms and also in practical ways, the money in the bank is not your money. It's the banks money , or more precisely it's the banks debt.


In accounting the bank defines the money it holds for it's customers as his debt, and the loans he gave out to businesses or individuals as his assets.

---

You know that in bankruptcy cases the corporations have all their debts forgiven (bail-in happens) above which they cannot fund (unfunded liabilities) via their assets.

So when a bank goes bankrupt it's debts are erased (all customers funds are erased, bail-in), and the assets probably used to pay shareholders.

--

So the bank checking account & saving account using customers  are fucked in the ass very hard.

--

Of course there is a 100,000€ insurance on every bank account, but I see how they fucked you up with that. The insurer will obviously dont want to pay the entire sum at once because then he might go bankrupt too.

(insurers operate on small cash flows and big risk margins, they are not well capitalized to insure a systematic collapse the magnitude of Cyprus 2013)

So you will get your 100,000€ insured (-) inflation (-) further transaction fees (and if the insurer goes bankrupt too, then you wont get it).


Sadly this is the fiat world we live in now!

[molecular]

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

Thats a big misconception, taxes arent on BITCOIN or USD or EUR or the currency itself.

Taxes are on you. You are the instrument that is taxed, not the currency. Or more precisely your actions/liberties are taxed. You are their tax slave and they tax your freedom (or your right) of doing an economic transactions or economic activity.

They cant tax bitcoin because bitcoin is not a living being, but they can tax you.

+1. Well-said.