✅ɃETCOIN.AG - POKER CLOSING - 42 BTC BBJP??? ✅

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logged in for the first time in a while... what happened to the WPN sit-n-go tourneys? All I see are the mBTC, and they NEVER run... Any info is appreciated

Betcoin.ag join(ed) the WPN Sit&Gos thru the Winning Tournament Network (WTN). Betcoin.ag is no skin on the WPN like ACR, BlackChip, Trupoker, etc..
If the WPN Sit&Gos are not available anymore, they obviously got kicked.

Their mBTC Sit&Gos NEVER run, confirms that their own traffic is almost dead. They recently moved to censorship and self-moderated threads and this typically confirms the last stage of their scam/ponzi scheme! Run, run, run...  

[DarkDays]

logged in for the first time in a while... what happened to the WPN sit-n-go tourneys? All I see are the mBTC, and they NEVER run... Any info is appreciated

Betcoin.ag join(ed) the WPN Sit&Gos thru the Winning Tournament Network (WTN). Betcoin.ag is no skin on the WPN like ACR, BlackChip, Trupoker, etc..
If the WPN Sit&Gos are not available anymore, they obviously got kicked.

Their mBTC Sit&Gos NEVER run, confirms that their own traffic is almost dead. They recently moved to censorship and self-moderated threads and this typically confirms the last stage of their scam/ponzi scheme! Run, run, run...  

You didn't answer his question.  I don't think you are doing anything to help the situation.

The answer to the question is that Betcoin has such horrible security that they were helping to facilitate fraud.  Someone would go on ACR or BCP, use a stolen credit card to deposit, and then lobby a HU SNG at the same time as their buddy (or them on another computer) who was playing on Betcoin.  The ACR/BCP account would intentionally lose to the Betcoin player who would then withdraw.  Betcoin security wouldn't catch them and they would be able to steal the money scot-free.  Instead of improving their security, Betcoin just refused to participate in WTN SNGs.

[game-protect]

I answered his questions perfectly:

1) No WPN Sit&Gos = Betcoin.ag is not connected

2) Betcoin.ag mBTC Sit&Gos NEVER run = Betcoin.ag traffic is dead = no customers

My explanation for 1) might be wrong, so feel free to post the documents confirming that they refuse it?

If Betcoin.ag is a security risk for the WPN skins, then they likely got kicked and not Betcoin.ag refuse to join the WPN Sit&Gos. Betcoin.ag is a criminal operation and they do not care about anything! So they likely would not refuse it, especially as this show that their own Sit&Go is dead = no customers.  

Opposed to their 77,000 forum members  

[Beefheart]

thanks for the answers

[DarkDays]

I answered his questions perfectly:

1) No WPN Sit&Gos = Betcoin.ag is not connected

2) Betcoin.ag mBTC Sit&Gos NEVER run = Betcoin.ag traffic is dead = no customers

My explanation for 1) might be wrong, so feel free to post the documents confirming that they refuse it?

If Betcoin.ag is a security risk for the WPN skins, then they likely got kicked and not Betcoin.ag refuse to join the WPN Sit&Gos. Betcoin.ag is a criminal operation and they do not care about anything! So they likely would not refuse it, especially as this show that their own Sit&Go is dead = no customers.  

Opposed to their 77,000 forum members  

...what?

I told you exactly what happened.  There was a ton of fraud being committed, WTN told Betcoin that they needed better security or else they would be liable for paying the network the money they lost from fraudulent charge-backs that were laundered through Betcoin.  Betcoin said "no" because they didn't want to improve their security and didn't want to pay for the fraud that people were committing through their site. 

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I answered his questions perfectly:

1) No WPN Sit&Gos = Betcoin.ag is not connected

2) Betcoin.ag mBTC Sit&Gos NEVER run = Betcoin.ag traffic is dead = no customers

My explanation for 1) might be wrong, so feel free to post the documents confirming that they refuse it?

If Betcoin.ag is a security risk for the WPN skins, then they likely got kicked and not Betcoin.ag refuse to join the WPN Sit&Gos. Betcoin.ag is a criminal operation and they do not care about anything! So they likely would not refuse it, especially as this show that their own Sit&Go is dead = no customers.  

Opposed to their 77,000 forum members  

...what?

I told you exactly what happened.  There was a ton of fraud being committed, WTN told Betcoin that they needed better security or else they would be liable for paying the network the money they lost from fraudulent charge-backs that were laundered through Betcoin.  Betcoin said "no" because they didn't want to improve their security and didn't want to pay for the fraud that people were committing through their site.  

According to Betcoin.ag, they are working on it and WPN (WTN) Sit&Gos will be back:

what happened to the WPN sit-n-go tourneys?

There was some abuse of the SitnGo's that we are working to fix and integrate them back in among other things.  We will certainly keep you posted.  Thank you.  

[DarkDays]

According to Betcoin.ag, they are working on it and WPN (WTN) Sit&Gos will be back:

Betcoin also said that jackpots would be live ~6 months ago and that they weren't stealing BBJ funds and that nobody accessed their private databases and stole customer's personal information.

Betcoin lies.

If you don't know that, I legit don't understand what you are doing in this thread.  You aren't helping the situation, it seems like you are just spamming your site.  Please stop.

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According to Betcoin.ag, they are working on it and WPN (WTN) Sit&Gos will be back:

Betcoin also said that jackpots would be live ~6 months ago and that they weren't stealing BBJ funds and that nobody accessed their private databases and stole customer's personal information.

Betcoin lies.

If you don't know that, I legit don't understand what you are doing in this thread.  You aren't helping the situation, it seems like you are just spamming your site.  Please stop.

How did you help the situation? From where do you have that info?

[DarkDays]

According to Betcoin.ag, they are working on it and WPN (WTN) Sit&Gos will be back:

Betcoin also said that jackpots would be live ~6 months ago and that they weren't stealing BBJ funds and that nobody accessed their private databases and stole customer's personal information.

Betcoin lies.

If you don't know that, I legit don't understand what you are doing in this thread.  You aren't helping the situation, it seems like you are just spamming your site.  Please stop.

How did you help the situation? From where do you have that info?

I helped the situation by correctly answering someone's question.

I have the info from always having my eyes and ears open, trusting my sources, and understanding how to put together two half-truths to read the full story.  You are right...they are criminals.  And I feel that en exit scam is on the horizon.  We all need to work together as a community to help, educate, and hopefully steer them away from malfeasance and towards being a legit business, like the rest of the WTN.  That's a win-win.  I'm sure you'll agree.

[TwitchySeal]

I can confirm Darkdays explanation.

I believe chat mod/site pro plo8monster said it was "due to a few bad apples" or something similiar.  He was referring to players dumping fraudulent funds (likely related to credit card deposits) to Betcoin accounts for easy cashouts.

Standard Betcoin mentality though if their system is exploited, blame those 'bad apples' who exploited it instead of the exploitable system

[TwitchySeal]

More stuff Betcoin wants to hide:

Deleted Post
« Sent to: TwitchySeal on: Today at 10:46:19 AM »

Are these "Vip Freerolls" the monthly ones that have been "coming soon" for at least the past 18 months?

I could of missed the announcment, but it seems like you just got rid of the the "coming soon" advertisment and decided to have a few one time BTC1 freerolls without bothering to explain what happened to the "monthly" part.

Here's what was advertised from March 2015 until just recently:
 


Here's what the vip page says now:



Not making good on your promise is lame, but doing it without any sort of explanation (or apology maybe?) just makes things worse, in my opinion.

Also, your VIP page states that players are entitled to 5 status points for every "1 chip bet" while playing poker.
That would make achieving VIP levels much easier.  It would also be very easy to exploit.  I doubt it matters though since it's probably just another mistake.

Currently on https://www.betcoin.ag/vip:

[TwitchySeal]

More Betcoin Gems.  Can't make this up.

"No Spam" means "We will delete whatever we want without explanation"

Could you define exactly what you mean by "No spam"? That would be appreciated.

Hi DarkStar, great question.  No spam means generally if a post is deleted, don't post it or something like it again.  This by no means is the final and only definition as we are new to this.  We were advised to proceed this way as there are a few people who just can't resist spamming in our threads.  We started to receive too many complaints from our great players about the spam and the feedback since the change has been great.  Thanks.

"Players that hate our site is an indicator of our success"

Haters As A Leading Indicator Of Success by Matt Asay

Through the years Betcoin and all successful businesses have had their share of "haters", but we have always believed "haters" are an indicator of business success.  Following is an article by Matt Asay explaining why.  Enjoy!

The following article is repeated in its entiriety with a link for reference at the bottom.

The only thing worse than dealing with haters of your company or product is not having any at all. The product without haters is destined for ignominy and failure. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that your product’s success is positively correlated with the volume of venom directed at it.

But first, let’s define a “hater.”

There’s valid criticism, and then there’s hate. A hater, according to Urban Dictionary, feasts upon schadenfreude: “A person that simply cannot be happy for another person’s success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.” Jealousy factors heavily into a hater’s temperament.

Yes, jealousy. After all, no one hates a loser. That company with 1% market share? No one bothers to expend energy trashing it. Not seriously, anyway.

No, haters reserve their hate for the winners.

It’s Good To Be Hated

Don’t believe me? Let’s look at some outsized winners, like Apple.

Apple’s market share may be sliding in both smartphones and tablets, in part because the market is growing around it, but Apple still commands profits (and revenues) that every company on the planet envies. It also commands disproportionate attention from haters. Social Mention pegs Apple’s love-to-hate ratio at 2-1. Motherhood and apple pie? 7-1. (You can find similar results using Twendz or Amplicate, whose data indicates that 44% hate Apple and a massive 68% hate the iPhone.

All to the tune of $137 billion in the bank.

How about Microsoft? Haters have targeted it for years, including me. (Incidentally, I don’t consider myself a hater, but that’s beside the point: “hate” in this definition is what we do, not necessarily who we are. And I’ve written some serious broadsides against Microsoft for its early bullying of open source.)

How much is Microsoft hated? Amplicate details a 63% hate rate against Windows, 69% against the company, and a whopping 89% against Internet Explorer. Social Mention (3:1 love-to-hate ratio) and Twendz reveal similar data.

And yet Microsoft still manages to earn over $72 billion in revenue, with a “paltry” $68 billion in the bank.

The list goes on. MySQL? It was once pilloried as a database that lost data, performed poorly, etc. Now it’s the third-most popular database in the world. Linux? Microsoft system administrators used to ridicule its security, performance, and most everything else. Now it owns 21% of the server market and keeps growing as it is the default OS for cloud, Big Data, and other emerging trends. Facebook was lambasted for not groking mobile, even as mobile has grown in two quarters from 14% to 23% of the company’s billion-dollar quarters.

Responding To The Haters

I could go on, but you get the point: haters are actually leading indicators of success. The more vociferous your haters, the more likely that you’re doing something right, and it’s driving them insane. Bonus points if you can claim a Twitter spoof account, as Apple once could thanks to @FakeSteveJobs/@RealDanLyons. No one bothers to parody a losing company or product, as no one would get the joke.

This is not to suggest that you should ignore valid criticism, but rather to take it in stride and answer with product improvements, as each of the companies noted above has done. Even bile-fueled hate can be instructive, after all, so the key is to learn from it without becoming consumed by it.

While it’s hard to resist responding, don’t. Doing so simply legitimizes the hater and amplifies their voice, as you almost certainly have more distribution than they do. I once heard wise counsel about someone criticized in a local newspaper. When they wanted to respond, they were told, “Don’t. Half the people in town don’t get that paper. Half that do won’t have read the article in question. Half of those who read it won’t believe it. And half that read and believe it simply won’t care.” Content on the Internet has an exceptionally short shelf-life. Don’t respond. Let it die. The best response is always by delivering on your product, as PDA CTO Eliot Murphy intimates.

The Only Thing Worse Than Having Haters…

Again, in our hyper-connected world it’s simply impossible to succeed without accumulating haters along the way. They indicate you’re doing something right, as SpringSource founder Rod Johnson suggests:

In other words, it’s far better to have a popular but feverishly hated product than a Milque Toast product that no one can be bothered to criticize, as forum traffic on Oracle (Market cap: $164B), SAP ($94B), and CA ($11B) illustrates.

None of which is to suggest that everyone criticizes your product is a mindless hater and should be ignored. Far from it. But when haters start congregating around your product, listen to their criticism, evaluate its merits, don’t respond, continually improve your product, and be very, very grateful that you have haters.

After all, most companies have few to no haters at all. Pity them.

Matt absolutely nailed it with this article and though we are nowhere close to the level of the esteemed companies mentioned in this article, we will work hard to be the very best we can be.

What are your thoughts?

https://www.betcoin.ag/haters-leading-indicator-success-matt-asay
http://readwrite.com/2013/02/25/haters-as-a-leading-indicator-of-success/

I wonder if Betcoin is aware of the most hated online poker sites over the past decade (and where they are now).

[DarkStar_]

Finally my post got deleted. Took them so long, longer than I expected. Was a legitimate question though, so the only reason it was deleted would be that they can't answer honestly without losing their reputation even more.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Could you define exactly what you mean by "No spam"? That would be appreciated.

Hi DarkStar, great question.  No spam means generally if a post is deleted, don't post it or something like it again.  This by no means is the final and only definition as we are new to this.  We were advised to proceed this way as there are a few people who just can't resist spamming in our threads.  We started to receive too many complaints from our great players about the spam and the feedback since the change has been great.  Thanks.

 

Define what kinds of posts will be deleted (expecting this one to be). I was asking what counts as spam to be deleted, but you completely dodged my question (apologies if you interpreted it differently)

it is very simple to understand; any post where  you ask your rights or you say some things that annoys the OP. Your post will be deleted and considered as spam.( like this one  )

I wish we could give you a precise definition, but we encourage you to ask "your rights" and never mind being "annoyed" as you state.  We also listen and hear all feedback and are consistently making improvements.  

Yay, completely dodged again! (surprised none of this has been deleted yet). Tell me my rights in this thread then. It isn't very hard to give a definition of spam (ie posts that add nothing related to the site, or posts that are offtopic). Or the 'actual' definition - Stupid Pointless Annoying Message. If your just going to dodge this, don't even bother.

[TwitchySeal]

https://archive.is/UEfmd

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Betcoin.ag posted an article about "Haters As A Leading Indicator Of Success by Matt Asay" and asked me what I think. My thoughts were who hate them and how and asked them "Who hates you and how?"

They deleted my question and as my question could be never considered as spam, this clearly shows that their self-moderated threads are nothing but censorship threads!

Define what kinds of posts will be deleted (expecting this one to be). I was asking what counts as spam to be deleted, but you completely dodged my question (apologies if you interpreted it differently)

They will delete whatever they like and this has nothing to do with whether it is spam or not. Censorship is the keyword, not spam.

[StanDMX114]

DONT ASK WHAT OUR THOUGHTS ARE IF U DONT WANT IT TO BE POSTED IN YOUR THREAD

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed.

Haters As A Leading Indicator Of Success by Matt Asay

[...snip...]

What are your thoughts?

I guess as the saying goes, if you have lemons you might as well make lemonade. While I do agree that certainly every successful business will attract haters, I would avoid doing business with any of them that are proud of it. As I know if I had any legitimate grievance, it'd be pretty easily to just dismiss me as a hater.

And for what it's worth, companies that have a track record of being proud of being hated haven't lasted very long. I remember dadice continually boasting that the haters and controversy was great for it's business. It even stole money from some of its fauceting players to fan the flames of controversy. While maybe it temporarily increased their hit count, they didn't last very long..

Have a read through the article again as it points out legitimate grievances and concerns should be addressed.  We also listen to everything and make adjustments and improvements accordingly.  We know we have a long way to go but we have come a long way and we are continually improving and appreciate all of the constructive feedback.  We know it's a part of business and will always be.  When you have people that dedicate time in their day to your business everyday there is something special there and we are thankful. 

Excellent comment RHavar.

I think Betcoin found this blog post from 4 years ago when trying to come up with explanation for why they have bad trust and only self-mod thread.
Betcoin deletes posts if they hate them.

They are small site still afte opening years ago. Apple and Microsoft are not like betcoin and Jealousy is not the problem either.

But first, let’s define a “hater.”

There’s valid criticism, and then there’s hate. A hater, according to Urban Dictionary, feasts upon schadenfreude: “A person that simply cannot be happy for another person’s success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.” Jealousy factors heavily into a hater’s temperament.

Yes, jealousy. After all, no one hates a loser. That company with 1% market share? No one bothers to expend energy trashing it. Not seriously, anyway.

No, haters reserve their hate for the winners.

Urban Dictionary Definition:

hater
Overused word that people like to use just because someone else expresses a dislike for a certain individual.
PERSON 1: I don't like Beyonce's new song.

PERSON 2: You're a hater!!!

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Why you don't have Spins/Jackpot SNGs? As part of WPN network?

This is currently in development and has taken longer than expected to implement, however we hope to have an announcement on this in short time.  Thank you for your question.

Betcoin.ag is no partner of the WPN and join the tournaments through the WTN!

http://www.winningpokernetwork.com/partners/

[TwitchySeal]

Why you don't have Spins/Jackpot SNGs? As part of WPN network?

This is currently in development and has taken longer than expected to implement, however we hope to have an announcement on this in short time.  Thank you for your question.

Betcoin.ag is no partner of the WPN and join the tournaments through the WTN!

http://www.winningpokernetwork.com/partners/

Indeed.

I also doubt they will ever get Jackpot Sngs for the same reason they don't have regular sngs, or cash games. 

Their response is never an indication of reality, either way.  (ask for any feature that sounds like a good idea, they will say "it's already in the works" )

[DarkDays]

Indeed.

I also doubt they will ever get Jackpot Sngs for the same reason they don't have regular sngs, or cash games. 

Their response is never an indication of reality, either way.  (ask for any feature that sounds like a good idea, they will say "it's already in the works" )

This got me thinking:

Why?

Think about it...they already have integrated the WTN software into their client.  Every other WTN partner has integrated jackpots into their software.  We know why they haven't integrated WPN cash games (they aren't allowed and if they were allowed they wouldn't see the value in it as they'd lose money due to promo overlay and beast contribution).  We know why they haven't integrated WPN SNGs (they won't increase their security to prevent chip dumping/money laundering and would be fully on the hook if it happens again).

But why not jackpots?

It's not a money laundering/chip dumping spot because it's three handed and doesn't run at high stakes.  It's not a promo consideration because the rake is so low.  It WOULD add money to their pocket because there are tons of regs who would play it.  So it's got to be a liquidity issue.

In the jackpots, the sites that participate share the profits BUT ALSO THE RISK!  If a 25k gets it, and there are two ACR players and one BCP player playing, ACR has to contribute 16.6k and BCP has to contribute 8.3k.  That way it's fair for all participating skins.  This is different from when a Betcoin player wins big in a WTN MTT, because WTN reimburses Betcoin right away so Betcoin is never 'out' any money.  In this situation, Betcoin would have to take a potential long term loss if one of it's players hits a large jackpot multiplier early on.  It's very very very likely that WTN asks all skins participating in jackpots to put a certain amount of money into escrow with it "just in case"...I'm betting that Betcoin doesn't have that money to invest.  And THAT'S why we aren't seeing the games. 

Because they are broke.

It's the only logical conclusion.

[TwitchySeal]

Indeed.

I also doubt they will ever get Jackpot Sngs for the same reason they don't have regular sngs, or cash games. 

Their response is never an indication of reality, either way.  (ask for any feature that sounds like a good idea, they will say "it's already in the works" )

This got me thinking:

Why?

Think about it...they already have integrated the WTN software into their client.  Every other WTN partner has integrated jackpots into their software.  We know why they haven't integrated WPN cash games (they aren't allowed and if they were allowed they wouldn't see the value in it as they'd lose money due to promo overlay and beast contribution).  We know why they haven't integrated WPN SNGs (they won't increase their security to prevent chip dumping/money laundering and would be fully on the hook if it happens again).

But why not jackpots?

It's not a money laundering/chip dumping spot because it's three handed and doesn't run at high stakes.  It's not a promo consideration because the rake is so low.  It WOULD add money to their pocket because there are tons of regs who would play it.  So it's got to be a liquidity issue.

In the jackpots, the sites that participate share the profits BUT ALSO THE RISK!  If a 25k gets it, and there are two ACR players and one BCP player playing, ACR has to contribute 16.6k and BCP has to contribute 8.3k.  That way it's fair for all participating skins.  This is different from when a Betcoin player wins big in a WTN MTT, because WTN reimburses Betcoin right away so Betcoin is never 'out' any money.  In this situation, Betcoin would have to take a potential long term loss if one of it's players hits a large jackpot multiplier early on.  It's very very very likely that WTN asks all skins participating in jackpots to put a certain amount of money into escrow with it "just in case"...I'm betting that Betcoin doesn't have that money to invest.  And THAT'S why we aren't seeing the games. 

Because they are broke.

It's the only logical conclusion.

I think Jackpot Sngs would be one of the easiest ways to get away with dumping funds quickly.

Sure, you might lose 2 buyins 1/3 of the time, dump the chips the wrong way or get stuck  playing against the wrong 2 people once in a while, but they are quick and go up to $60 buyins sometimes.

I don't follow why WPN would need any escrow of funds.