★★★★★ BetcoinRakeback.com ♠ Uncensored Discussion ♥ ★★★★★

[TwitchySeal]

This thread will provide a place for users to discuss anything related to BetcoinRakeback.com without the risk of being censored by BCRB.com owner.

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[Superhitech]

Great idea, it's good to discuss without someone deleting every negative comment about their site.

However, I do have one question as I am not familiar with BetcoinRakeback; what's wrong with their site that makes them self moderate their own thread? Do they have issues paying out users?

[Xiaoxiao]

Great idea, it's good to discuss without someone deleting every negative comment about their site.

However, I do have one question as I am not familiar with BetcoinRakeback; what's wrong with their site that makes them self moderate their own thread? Do they have issues paying out users?

Absolutely not.  The reason I moved the old thread to archival and created the new thread was because it had turned into a battlefield between Twitchy and company/co-conspirators and some of the players.  Twitchy kept on attacking me and rambling on about irrelevant casino issues, over blowing and exaggerating old poker room issues that had been rectified, and being extremely confrontational.  This resulted in the new thread being formed.

You can find the old thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=683727.0

The fact that he's even created this thread shows the animosity he has towards anyone that does not feel the same way about Betcoin as him.  He has a guerrilla warfare mentality in the forums.... "Either be on the same page as me or you're a [insert expletive].

And nothing gets censored besides Twitchy and game-protect's spam when he goes toe-to-toe with me when I posts updates on rakeback and news.

[TwitchySeal]

Xiao has personally endorsed Betcoin for over 2 years now.  When there's any discussion about Bitcoin Poker, he pretends to be an impartial third party and makes posts like this one   He also has his own threads on multiple sites/subforums that he has been spamming only good things about Betcoin for years now.

He tries to gain trust by acting as if his "rakeback service" is motivated by his generosity and selfless desire to do good for Bitcoin and Online Poker as a whole.  He want's everyone to trust him and believe he is only promoting Betcoin because of how great they are not because of the amount of money he's made and stands to make in the future.  So he lies and tells people he barely makes any money from his players sports/casino action because they only play poker.

When I started posting the reality of Betcoin last year, (from the BBJP, to the missing VIP rewards to the over charged rake and constant lies) he handled it similar to how Betcoin did.  Ignore the situation.  If that doesn't work make the situation seem like really no big deal.  If that doesn't work lie about the situation and attack the credibility of whoever is complaining.

According to Xiao, I'm mentally ill, a retard, brain dead, a degenerate, a dos attacker, an "abuser of trust" (still dunno what he means there), and when other people complain about Betcoin - he there's a good chance he'll declare they are just me using alt accounts.  He's created a thread to throw out accusations:  [Beware] TwitchySeal: Abuses his Rep, replies to his own posts with alts, etc     [Beware] TwitchySeal: Abuses his Reputation with Hit or Miss accusations, etc and then responds to my defense with "I barely read your post......"

He's been caught shorting payments to players, lying about Betcoins affiliate tier structure, his business model and the amount of rake his players generate.

He says all this stuff because he doesn't want people to believe what I say and he won't have a reasonable discussion about the issues for the same reason Betcoin won't.  Their behavior is pathetic.

With all that being said, if you're a poker player that doesn't give much action in sports or casino/dice, you really have no other option to sign up under his affiliate as far as I know.  Just make sure you're aware of what's really going on.

[game-protect]

Great idea, it's good to discuss without someone deleting every negative comment about their site.

However, I do have one question as I am not familiar with BetcoinRakeback; what's wrong with their site that makes them self moderate their own thread? Do they have issues paying out users?

Yes, they did not pay a 500 Bitcoins jackpot BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot and customers occasionally report cashout issues:

On 2+2: is there a rep itt? waiting on BTC withdrawal from 3+ weeks ago, have contacted support and still nothing

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50740314&postcount=695

On 2+2: how long should this (cash out) take after sending the first ticket? i've been waiting for about a week now..

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50770088&postcount=699

The more concerning part is that their rakeback model is not sustainable! According to main participant and main liar Xiaoxiao, they give in average 100% rakeback:

A) It is mathematically and juridically absolute correct to use the average numbers:

1) According to liar Xiaoxiao, his referred players paid BTC75 rake in August

2) 33% fix from betcoin.ag in form of Xiaoxiao + 30% vip rakeback + 25% tablestarter = 88% in average + the countless too good to be true promotions, (do not know) maybe 12% in average = 100% rakeback in average!!!

3) From the BTC75 rake paid in August, betcoin.ag paid 100% back to players and made a 0% gross revenue

4) Xiaoxiao received 40% commission of the BTC75 rake paid = 30 BTC

5) Xiaoxiao's or better betcoin.ag's behaviour created a - 30 BTC LOSS in August

6) This clearly confirms that Xiaoxiao is a participant of the betcoin.ag scam (and not only an affiliate), as a legitimate company would never pay 30 BTC from their pocket to a foreign affiliate!  


B) For the WPN tournaments betcoin.ag join thru the WTN, they receive 50% of the entry fee:

1) If a player pay e.g. a $20 entry fee, betcoin.ag receive $10

2) Betcoin.ag give to the player in average 100% rakeback for the $20 entry fee and this means that they pay $10 = 50% of the entry fee from their pocket!


C) Even though betcoin.ag aka Xiaoxiao is a big liar and we should not believe anything, he confimed that the BTC75 rake generated in poker lead to only BTC2,5 revenue in sports and casino.

Therefore, the laughable sports and casino revenue can in no way cover the unsustainable rakeback model for poker!


This calculation confirms that the betcoin.ag scam pays the too good to be true promotions, 58-133% rakeback = 95,5% average + surprise boxes + affiliate commissions + signature campaigns + software provider fees + employees + infrastructure and whatever costs from the player deposits/not paid jackpot winnings/scams and this is called PONZI SCHEME!


If you think that as long as they process withdrawals everything is fine, then you are absolutely wrong! Because if they have an unsustainable business model, they must use the player deposits. Or do you think that the selflessly Xiaoxiao, who only want to help others, pay everything from his own pocket?

Betcoin.ag processing withdrawals means nothing more than they have at least 5-10% of the account balances available!

Censorship and moving all threads to self-moderated is the clear sign that they are in the last stage of their scam!

[Nubitcoinerr]

Tinfoil hat goons and retards itt:

[olubams]

From what I have read so far even though I dont know the origin of this issue I believe what you guys started in the previous thread will continue here. My opinion is you guys as even high rank on this forum should just find a way to settle your differences rather than just going after each other and attacking each other then move on... `

[NiceSoft12]

Great idea, it's good to discuss without someone deleting every negative comment about their site.

However, I do have one question as I am not familiar with BetcoinRakeback; what's wrong with their site that makes them self moderate their own thread? Do they have issues paying out users?

Yes, they did not pay a $400,000 jackpot BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot and customers occasionally report cashout issues:

On 2+2: is there a rep itt? waiting on BTC withdrawal from 3+ weeks ago, have contacted support and still nothing

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50740314&postcount=695

]On 2+2: how long should this (cash out) take after sending the first ticket? i've been waiting for about a week now..

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50770088&postcount=699

The more concerning part is that their rakeback model is not sustainable! According to main participant and main liar Xiaoxiao, they give in average 100% rakeback:

A) It is mathematically and juridically absolute correct to use the average numbers:

1) According to liar Xiaoxiao, his referred players paid BTC75 rake in August

2) 33% fix from betcoin.ag in form of Xiaoxiao + 30% vip rakeback + 25% tablestarter = 88% in average + the countless too good to be true promotions, (do not know) maybe 12% in average = 100% rakeback in average!!!

3) From the BTC75 rake paid in August, betcoin.ag paid 100% back to players and made a 0% gross revenue

4) Xiaoxiao received 40% commission of the BTC75 rake paid = 30 BTC

5) Xiaoxiao's or better betcoin.ag's behaviour created a - 30 BTC LOSS in August

6) This clearly confirms that Xiaoxiao is a participant of the betcoin.ag scam (and not only an affiliate), as a legitimate company would never pay 30 BTC from their pocket to a foreign affiliate!  


B) For the WPN tournaments betcoin.ag join thru the WTN, they receive 50% of the entry fee:

1) If a player pay e.g. a $20 entry fee, betcoin.ag receive $10

2) Betcoin.ag give to the player in average 100% rakeback for the $20 entry fee and this means that they pay $10 = 50% of the entry fee from their pocket!


C) Even though betcoin.ag aka Xiaoxiao is a big liar and we should not believe anything, he confimed that the BTC75 rake generated in poker lead to only BTC2,5 revenue in sports and casino.

Therefore, the laughable sports and casino revenue can in no way cover the unsustainable rakeback model for poker!


This calculation confirms that the betcoin.ag scam pays the too good to be true promotions, 58-133% rakeback = 95,5% average + surprise boxes + affiliate commissions + signature campaigns + software provider fees + employees + infrastructure and whatever costs from the player deposits/not paid jackpot winnings/scams and this is called PONZI SCHEME!


If you think that as long as they process withdrawals everything is fine, then you are absolutely wrong! Because if they have an unsustainable business model, they must use the player deposits. Or do you think that the selflessly Xiaoxiao, who only want to help others, pay everything from his own pocket?

Betcoin.ag processing withdrawals means nothing more than they have at least 5-10% of the account balances available!

Censorship and moving all threads to self-moderated is the clear sign that they are in the last stage of their scam!

Lol at this, I've known Xiao from other poker communities before he affiliated for Betcoin. Lol at thinking Xiao is part of Betcoin. Also everything about the math and logic is wrong in this post. I'ts funny though how Twitchy the bearer of "truth" just nods when this douchebag rambles on with BS. The epitome of "my enemy's enemy is my friend."

[game-protect]

Lol at this, I've known Xiao from other poker communities before he affiliated for Betcoin.

You have known Xiao from other poker communities before he started the Betcoin.ag scam? Great!  

Lol at thinking Xiao is part of Betcoin.

I explained perfectly why Xiao is a part of betcoin.ag , feel free to explain why he is not?  

Also everything about the math and logic is wrong in this post.

Curiously you are not able to explain what is wrong and why it is wrong? Did you ever hear about the word content? It appears not!

[DarkDays]

Tinfoil hat goons and retards itt:

This post exemplifies the "Betcoin offensive".

Many people post well thought out, well researched, well informed assertions regarding the instability and potentially dangerous actions of Betcoin and it's employees (and make no mistake...Xiao is a paid employee of Betcoin).

Betcoin shills then respond with "U R RETARDS!"

Does that make sense?  No refuting of the facts, no questioning the researched materials...just baseless name calling.  Why wouldn't they want to engage in a rational discussion regarding the health of a site that they claim to play on?  If these people propping up Betcoin are truly just innocent players on the site, why aren't they concerned with what they are reading?  Why aren't they asking questions? 

Think about it like this.  Let's say you bank at a Major Bank.  And one day a coworker says, "Oh, you have accounts at Major Bank?  You better be careful, they've been caught doing some pretty underhanded activities and it seems like they may be looking for an exit scam in the near future".  Would you respond with "U R A RETARD AND A GOON!"?  Of course not.  You'd want to know more.  And if you thought that the information is incorrect or biased in any way, you'd simply respond in kind with your positive experiences and facts pointing towards the opposite.

But look at Betcoin Defenders.  No facts.  No interest in a discussion.  Not even any positive experiences to recount!  Just name calling.  Trolling.  Gaslighting.

Any rational observer would have to look at the two sides of the argument and ask themselves why that is. 

[game-protect]

A few interesting articles lately posted at the community forum on Betcoin.ag.

https://www.betcoin.ag/haters-leading-indicator-success-matt-asay

https://www.betcoin.ag/bitcoin-real-money-judge-rules-jp-morgan-hack

blacklisted and rogue casinos

Betcoin.ag is one of a new breed of casino that operate solely using crypto-currencies such as Bitcoin. In mid 2016 we were approached by Jason, a player that claimed that he had been stiffed of a million mBTC progressive jackpot payout on a Betsoft slot, The Glam Life. Jason won the jackpot with five yacht symbols across the middle payline. Or so he thought. Instead he was paid a 1000 coin win and told, after several changes of story, that he didn't qualify for the jackpot because the winning spin occurred during the game's free spins bonus round. This was not documented in the paytable at the time, and after the controversy Betsoft later updated the game's paytable with a poorly worded statement that attempts to state this exception. The bottom line is, he was ripped off from a once in a lifetime win.

While the issue was no doubt caused by Betsoft, either through incompetence or malice, Betcoin.ag did itself no favours in its handling of the matter. While other casinos were dropping Betsoft games altogether after our investigation into their jackpots revealed several irregularities, Betcoin continues to offer Betsoft's crooked games. They instead told the player that they couldn't do anything, its all up to Betsoft and they are just a poor innocent intermediary caught in the middle. Eventually Jason was paid off with an amount that no-one will divulge and forced to make public statements proclaiming his love for Betcoin and Betsoft. In other words, they paid him to shut up and stop complaining about his rightful win. Betcoin.ag is not licensed or regulated by any recognised authority and they have demonstrated that they are a rogue casino willing to run crooked games. Avoid.

Based on what do anyone know who caused this issue?

If the issue was doubtless caused by Betsoft, why is Betcoin.ag mentioned in the jackpot victim statement and this more like Betsoft?

If Betcoin.ag say it is all up to Betsoft, maybe it is up to Betcoin.ag? If you deposit money to Betcoin.ag and play at Betcoin.ag, why would be anyone responsible except Betcoin.ag itself?

[DarkDays]

A few interesting articles lately posted at the community forum on Betcoin.ag.

https://www.betcoin.ag/haters-leading-indicator-success-matt-asay

https://www.betcoin.ag/bitcoin-real-money-judge-rules-jp-morgan-hack

blacklisted and rogue casinos

Betcoin.ag is one of a new breed of casino that operate solely using crypto-currencies such as Bitcoin. In mid 2016 we were approached by Jason, a player that claimed that he had been stiffed of a million mBTC progressive jackpot payout on a Betsoft slot, The Glam Life. Jason won the jackpot with five yacht symbols across the middle payline. Or so he thought. Instead he was paid a 1000 coin win and told, after several changes of story, that he didn't qualify for the jackpot because the winning spin occurred during the game's free spins bonus round. This was not documented in the paytable at the time, and after the controversy Betsoft later updated the game's paytable with a poorly worded statement that attempts to state this exception. The bottom line is, he was ripped off from a once in a lifetime win.

While the issue was no doubt caused by Betsoft, either through incompetence or malice, Betcoin.ag did itself no favours in its handling of the matter. While other casinos were dropping Betsoft games altogether after our investigation into their jackpots revealed several irregularities, Betcoin continues to offer Betsoft's crooked games. They instead told the player that they couldn't do anything, its all up to Betsoft and they are just a poor innocent intermediary caught in the middle. Eventually Jason was paid off with an amount that no-one will divulge and forced to make public statements proclaiming his love for Betcoin and Betsoft. In other words, they paid him to shut up and stop complaining about his rightful win. Betcoin.ag is not licensed or regulated by any recognised authority and they have demonstrated that they are a rogue casino willing to run crooked games. Avoid.

Based on what do anyone know who caused this issue?

If the issue was doubtless caused by Betsoft, why is Betcoin.ag mentioned in the jackpot victim statement and this more like Betsoft?

If Betcoin.ag say it is all up to Betsoft, maybe it is up to Betcoin.ag? If you deposit money to Betcoin.ag and play at Betcoin.ag, why would be anyone responsible except Betcoin.ag itself?

Do you not understand how licensed software works?

[game-protect]

Do you not understand how licensed software works?

First, I need to know how licensed software works, then I can decide if I am able to understand or not.

I did not see the business contract between Betcoin.ag and Betsoft and therefore do not know who owes the money if a jackpot is won. Furthermore, I did not see any contract between Betsoft and other gaming sites, so I can also not assume/conclude.

[DarkDays]

Do you not understand how licensed software works?

First, I need to know how licensed software works, then I can decide if I am able to understand or not.

I did not see the business contract between Betcoin.ag and Betsoft and therefore do not know who owes the money if a jackpot is won. Furthermore, I did not see any contract between Betsoft and other gaming sites, so I can also not assume/conclude.

So that's a no?

Betcoin doesn't operate the shady slots, Betsoft does.  Betcoin just directs their traffic there and helps Betsoft rip them off.

Also this is offtopic for this thread, which is about the BetcoinRakeback service.

On topic: the BRB has been having some serious delays this month.  Is it related to Betcoin's failure to pay out tournaments?

[TwitchySeal]

Reference

Who is your parent company?

Private held company that owns operates and licenses software and services to many online casinos.

[game-protect]

Do you not understand how licensed software works?

First, I need to know how licensed software works, then I can decide if I am able to understand or not.

I did not see the business contract between Betcoin.ag and Betsoft and therefore do not know who owes the money if a jackpot is won. Furthermore, I did not see any contract between Betsoft and other gaming sites, so I can also not assume/conclude.

Betcoin doesn't operate the shady slots, Betsoft does.

The relevant parts are:

1) Who offers the slots and not who operates them
 
2) Who is the contract partner for the players

3) To who did you send your money

Only because the Betsoft slots run on Betsoft servers, does not confirm that there is a contract relationship between Betcoin.ag customers and Betsoft!

All I have seen so far, confirms that the contract relationship is between players and Betcoin.ag and that Betcoin.ag owes the jackpot in full height!

Betcoin just directs their traffic there and helps Betsoft rip them off.

When you click on Betsoft slots at the Betcoin.ag client, then it is stated that you leave now Betcoin.ag and are forwarded to the foreign company Betsoft?

Also this is offtopic for this thread, which is about the BetcoinRakeback service.

1) Betcoin.ag do not pay jackpots won is topic for all their censorship threads, inclusive their criminals recruiting thread in the "Service" section of this forum.

2) TwitchySeal posted this in their rakeback thread and I copied it to this uncensored version, as I knew that Xiaoxiao will delete it.

On topic: the BRB has been having some serious delays this month.  Is it related to Betcoin's failure to pay out tournaments?

An unsustainable, in average 100% rakeback system, is of course related to the failure to pay out tournaments. It is related to everything and all going on at and with the Betcoin.ag scam.