Chess Game that Used Bitcoin?

[tee-rex]

Actually, guys, I've found that lichess.org hosts the "BitChess" games in which you play blitz/bullet games (short games) and compete for prizes paid in Bitcoin. This is actually feasible because I would think that most people who were planning to cheat would only be able to do so without such a short time limit, plus the fact that cheating would be more obvious in bullet chess - if they do a lot of wild moves (that are sourced from an algorithm) quickly and consistently, since you have a lot of blitz and bullet games to play.

Time limits could be an issue for humans only. An experienced web developer would code a simple script that would analyze the incoming traffic and feed the moves to a chess bot in less than no time. In fact, I watched a few games, and it seems that only bots are actually playing there. The speed with which moves are made is simply not possible for a human being. You just can't move the mouse so fast, let alone think over the next move. Nevertheless, it is fascinating to watch the bots play against each other.

[maku]

Actually, guys, I've found that lichess.org hosts the "BitChess" games in which you play blitz/bullet games (short games) and compete for prizes paid in Bitcoin. This is actually feasible because I would think that most people who were planning to cheat would only be able to do so without such a short time limit, plus the fact that cheating would be more obvious in bullet chess - if they do a lot of wild moves (that are sourced from an algorithm) quickly and consistently, since you have a lot of blitz and bullet games to play.

Seriously, check it out if you're a fan of chess.

lichess.org
BitChess.org

I wan't aware of sites like these. But as tee-rex said blitz chess can be exploited in the same way as standard full-time chess game.

With online chess there will always be element of doubt if you are facing real opponents it is nature of that game.

If you really can earn money by playing chess there I wonder if games are not being exploited alredy.

[actmyname]

Time limits could be an issue for humans only. An experienced web developer would code a simple script that would analyze the incoming traffic and feed the moves to a chess bot in less than no time. In fact, I watched a few games, and it seems that only bots are actually playing there. The speed with which moves are made is simply not possible for a human being. You just can't move the mouse so fast, let alone think over the next move. Nevertheless, it is fascinating to watch the bots play against each other.

"plus the fact that cheating would be more obvious in bullet chess - if they do a lot of wild moves (that are sourced from an algorithm) quickly and consistently, since you have a lot of blitz and bullet games to play."

I'm sure that they would have analysis to find if someone's cheating or not. After all, they're running the tournaments and are aware of the fact that there's online cheating. With a free buy-in, you would want to prevent that.

As for the speed issue, there are premoves in chess, and as an actual chess player, I know that I can play bullet chess quite quickly. One move per second is not outside of the realm of possibilities, along with the fact that you can queue up following moves. Plus, when the time drains down to the end, you'll see a lot of garbage moves - to try and flag the other player.


I looked at some game histories - and a lot of the time, the moves seemed human. I really do not think that cheaters would be on there, or if they are, that they would be caught.

(By the way, there's a requirement to play 20 blitz games before joining the blitz tournament, and I doubt lots of people have Crazyhouse algorithms. If you don't know what that variation is, then google it.)

[audaciousbeing]

For me, I have not seen any gambling site promoting chess but if OP is interested to build one I would be more happy to try it out but developing something like this will have to rely so much on PVP because I dont see myself playing against computer and a level of my ability of a medium player only for the computer to be configured to operate at a Pro level only for me to lose at an unfair level.

[Prettygirl01315]

Time limits could be an issue for humans only. An experienced web developer would code a simple script that would analyze the incoming traffic and feed the moves to a chess bot in less than no time. In fact, I watched a few games, and it seems that only bots are actually playing there. The speed with which moves are made is simply not possible for a human being. You just can't move the mouse so fast, let alone think over the next move. Nevertheless, it is fascinating to watch the bots play against each other.

"plus the fact that cheating would be more obvious in bullet chess - if they do a lot of wild moves (that are sourced from an algorithm) quickly and consistently, since you have a lot of blitz and bullet games to play."

I'm sure that they would have analysis to find if someone's cheating or not. After all, they're running the tournaments and are aware of the fact that there's online cheating. With a free buy-in, you would want to prevent that.

As for the speed issue, there are premoves in chess, and as an actual chess player, I know that I can play bullet chess quite quickly. One move per second is not outside of the realm of possibilities, along with the fact that you can queue up following moves. Plus, when the time drains down to the end, you'll see a lot of garbage moves - to try and flag the other player.


I looked at some game histories - and a lot of the time, the moves seemed human. I really do not think that cheaters would be on there, or if they are, that they would be caught.

(By the way, there's a requirement to play 20 blitz games before joining the blitz tournament, and I doubt lots of people have Crazyhouse algorithms. If you don't know what that variation is, then google it.)

I am also looking for this but I want PVP or Man to Man play with chess or your opponent is also a Human and not AI. They will bet for the game both side. And the house start them to play the house will be the referree.

[actmyname]

I am also looking for this but I want PVP or Man to Man play with chess or your opponent is also a Human and not AI. They will bet for the game both side. And the house start them to play the house will be the referree.

Didn't you read? The games are PvP. They would have to be PvP, or else it's quite literally impossible to win unless you yourself use an algorithm to face them. I don't know what you're talking about.

I've already stated that the games seem fair. And in the case that someone DOES cheat, the host can simply deny payment and move to the second winner... then the third... and the fourth. There's no point in cheating and risking your reputation - unless you decide to use a different IP every time and create a huge number of accounts (all to meet the requirements), which is a waste of time. You would earn more by working.


Please don't spam. I understand you're scraping for those cents and they're incredibly valuable to you, but try and find a way to stop. I'm pretty sure even you know that a post history filled with one-liners on general threads about vague crap is not something that contributes to this community.

[coynedterm]

hello there i just want to ask if you know a gambling site that offers a PVP chess game? I want to play some chess and at the same time earn some profit,
I'm tired on playing with bot at my computer. Thanks in advance for future responds. 

i think your idea to earn bitcoin with ches gambling is not good . because you need to give a lot of time for such types of game even you have sharp mind to play chess .

[hajimasan]

hello there i just want to ask if you know a gambling site that offers a PVP chess game? I want to play some chess and at the same time earn some profit,
I'm tired on playing with bot at my computer. Thanks in advance for future responds. 

since gambling always results in to loss . but if you are successful in playing chess and you have lot of time then your descion is right to gamble . you can visit www.chess.com which os bitcoin gambling site for chess plays .

[Zadicar]

hello there i just want to ask if you know a gambling site that offers a PVP chess game? I want to play some chess and at the same time earn some profit,
I'm tired on playing with bot at my computer. Thanks in advance for future responds. 

i think your idea to earn bitcoin with ches gambling is not good . because you need to give a lot of time for such types of game even you have sharp mind to play chess .

This is  somehow  true  but still it would be a good  past time and  also  if you are really good  you could able to make  money with it  no matter how  long time  would be spent  as long  you take profits  then it would be  no problem at all unless if  you are  a busy man then  its not ideal to waste time  on this things.

[Blitzboy]

hello there i just want to ask if you know a gambling site that offers a PVP chess game? I want to play some chess and at the same time earn some profit,
I'm tired on playing with bot at my computer. Thanks in advance for future responds. 

Cgbets.com have developed chess into one of their game. You can try it on their website. They also allow people to use bitcoin each game as a price for a winner. You can earn some profit when you win a game

[jambola2]

I think an inherent issues is always going to be the existence of chess engines.

Sure, some sites claim they have ways to detect these engines, and ban players. But then it comes down to how do you ever know for sure that the site is actually banning cheaters or just banning people who win too frequently, and ensuring someone on the inside wins?

You might find a place to play for BTC, as others have listed... but you can never know if it is going to be fair at all.

[trafficolaa]

I think an inherent issues is always going to be the existence of chess engines.

Sure, some sites claim they have ways to detect these engines, and ban players. But then it comes down to how do you ever know for sure that the site is actually banning cheaters or just banning people who win too frequently, and ensuring someone on the inside wins?

You might find a place to play for BTC, as others have listed... but you can never know if it is going to be fair at all.

Indeed that is very serious issue to play against bot and I don't think there is any authentic method implemented to detect these engines, but I don't think that is good idea to play chess for btc because it take so long time to get complete a game there, I think better idea to play just for fun there because so many site offering this to play online with other players.

[actmyname]

I think an inherent issues is always going to be the existence of chess engines.

Sure, some sites claim they have ways to detect these engines, and ban players. But then it comes down to how do you ever know for sure that the site is actually banning cheaters or just banning people who win too frequently, and ensuring someone on the inside wins?

You might find a place to play for BTC, as others have listed... but you can never know if it is going to be fair at all.

Already talked about this. If you're consistently playing the engine's best move, you're cheating. What could be more simple than that? Of course, if someone were to appeal to that accusation, then there would be talking - usually, cheaters won't bother. They can simply check for anyone playing "too perfectly" or using a script (which the site could probably catch with the speed of making moves)

Also, lichess.org is separate from BitChess.co

Indeed that is very serious issue to play against bot and I don't think there is any authentic method implemented to detect these engines, but I don't think that is good idea to play chess for btc because it take so long time to get complete a game there, I think better idea to play just for fun there because so many site offering this to play online with other players.

because you need to give a lot of time for such types of game even you have sharp mind to play chess .

Uneducated (ignorant) ladies and gentlemen, let me present to you... time limits! Pick your poison... will you choose the 30 second time limit for each player, or 3 minutes for each player? Tick tock.

The tournaments you usually see are classical - with ridiculously long time controls. I know I go to live tournaments with 90 minutes + 30 seconds/move. That makes games last 2-5 hours usually.

Although the tournaments in lichess are somewhat long (I think the hosted ones were 2 hours) you play multiple games in that timeframe with the short time controls and have different strategic maneuvers - shortening your time by 50% but gaining an extra point if you win...

Think about it this way, though. There are freerolls in poker. What's the top prize for those? They can last way longer than 2 hours. And with those, you rely on luck (even a little bit). With chess, you can no doubt win every tournament if your skill is high enough, provided your internet doesn't stop. Top prize for this example tournament is $15. Not bad if you enjoy chess, want to increase your rating, and get a little cash incentive whilst doing so.

[tee-rex]

Time limits could be an issue for humans only. An experienced web developer would code a simple script that would analyze the incoming traffic and feed the moves to a chess bot in less than no time. In fact, I watched a few games, and it seems that only bots are actually playing there. The speed with which moves are made is simply not possible for a human being. You just can't move the mouse so fast, let alone think over the next move. Nevertheless, it is fascinating to watch the bots play against each other.

"plus the fact that cheating would be more obvious in bullet chess - if they do a lot of wild moves (that are sourced from an algorithm) quickly and consistently, since you have a lot of blitz and bullet games to play."

I don't quite understand what you mean by them making "a lot of wild moves". If you are using a bot to play there, you would evidently try your best to hide this regrettable fact by adding random time delays between moves, changing the playing difficulty level of the bot arbitrarily on the fly, and whatever else you might come up with to conceal any evidence that you are cheating.

I'm sure that they would have analysis to find if someone's cheating or not. After all, they're running the tournaments and are aware of the fact that there's online cheating. With a free buy-in, you would want to prevent that

You can't be 100% sure that these sites aren't cheating themselves and using bots against players. There is simply no bullet-proof way of refuting such a possibility.

[actmyname]

I don't quite understand what you mean by them making "a lot of wild moves". If you are using a bot to play there, you would evidently try your best to hide this regrettable fact by adding random time delays between moves, changing the playing difficulty level of the bot arbitrarily on the fly, and whatever else you might come up with to conceal any evidence that you are cheating.

Adding random time delays would be suicide in these games with low time controls. If you have 30 seconds to play the entire game (and the game lasts no longer than 1 minute) you would need to do every move down pat. Now, changing the difficulty doesn't really alter anything unless you decide to move it down to a level that can be easily beaten by most of the opponents in the tournament (I've seen mid-2000 elo rated players there).

You actually, however, might not survive with a script. Not to say that a computer wouldn't beat every player there, but think of it this way: the algorithm would only receive the information and then calculate... then make the move on the board. Humans in these games usually use premoves, which means they play a move in anticipation of their opponent's move. (If the move is possible on their turn, they'll do it whether it's good or bad.)

Along with this, most of the top players there would no doubt have memorized patterns. The mind would be able to find that relatively quickly, nearly instantly even, while the algorithm would only spit out the moves - and not why. A good player would be able to see 6, 7 move combinations.

This is all ignoring the fact that the algorithm playing at a high speed would suffer in its expected rating. Even if you have Stockfish 7, if you run it at a half second calculation (which is still too much) then you're absolutely beat.

I'll do some testing myself, though. I'll see how good these chess engines are in short time controls.

You can't be 100% sure that these sites aren't cheating themselves and using bots against players. There is simply no bullet-proof way of refuting such a possibility.

BitChess.co provides the funds for the tournament, lichess.org hosts the tournament. I don't think that a site for free chess games would try to cheat.

[tee-rex]

I don't quite understand what you mean by them making "a lot of wild moves". If you are using a bot to play there, you would evidently try your best to hide this regrettable fact by adding random time delays between moves, changing the playing difficulty level of the bot arbitrarily on the fly, and whatever else you might come up with to conceal any evidence that you are cheating.

Adding random time delays would be suicide in these games with low time controls. If you have 30 seconds to play the entire game (and the game lasts no longer than 1 minute) you would need to do every move down pat. Now, changing the difficulty doesn't really alter anything unless you decide to move it down to a level that can be easily beaten by most of the opponents in the tournament (I've seen mid-2000 elo rated players there)

If it all comes down to playing the entire game within 30 seconds, which seems to be an insane exaggeration on your part for an online game, then the artificial delays are not required altogether, since the network delays would be both enough and same for human players as well as bots. Changing the difficulty during a match is required to disrupt the pattern which could betray the bot. Obviously, it should be within the limits sufficient to win the match. But I don't think it is actually required, arbitrarily setting the time limits for a move should suffice.

You actually, however, might not survive with a script. Not to say that a computer wouldn't beat every player there, but think of it this way: the algorithm would only receive the information and then calculate... then make the move on the board. Humans in these games usually use premoves, which means they play a move in anticipation of their opponent's move. (If the move is possible on their turn, they'll do it whether it's good or bad.)

I've been reading recently about chess programs, and it seems that their capacity of using game databases by far exceeds that of humans ("premoves" in your speak). They don't need to "calculate" every move.

[actmyname]

If it all comes down to playing the entire game within 30 seconds, which seems to be an insane exaggeration on your part for an online game, then the artificial delays are not required altogether, since the network delays would be both enough and same for human players as well as bots. Changing the difficulty during a match is required to disrupt the pattern which could betray the bot. Obviously, it should be within the limits sufficient to win the match. But I don't think it is actually required, arbitrarily setting the time limits for a move should suffice.

This isn't an exaggeration. I did find a video of Wesley So vs Stockfish (with Stockfish down a knight!) At this point I would agree with you on the bot levels. The only thing I would hope for is that they have basic detection strategies. If there's a consistent winner, then there might be reason for an investigation. Cheating is a problem in Chess, even live! (One grandmaster was caught hiding a phone inside a toilet paper roll during a tournament)

I guess at the end of this, I would just hope that any cheaters are stopped - and that the hosts check via engines to really see how the players played based on rating. Cheaters will be caught eventually. That being said... the tournaments for the next few weeks consist of mainly Crazyhouse - a variant of Chess. There is an engine, of course, for it, but its estimated rating is ~2700. It's not difficult to say that a top-tier Crazyhouse chess player would be able to beat or draw against the engine (marginally, perhaps).


And now, anecdotal information! (This is not to improve my point, these are just observations)

https://en.lichess.org/@/JannLee - this is the top scoring player in BitChess (3 3rd place wins, 13 2nd place wins, 6 1st place wins) who plays only Crazyhouse on lichess.org, but is streaming the tournaments. You can be sure that that would be something a cheater doesn't do.

https://en.lichess.org/@/chickencrossroad - the second top scoring player in BitChess. They have high ratings in many of the variants, and engines have not been developed for some of them - so I strongly suspect that they aren't a cheater.

You should do some research yourself on this. Perhaps question BitChess on how they prevent cheaters - I would. (And have!)

[Roboabhishek]

I have heard few students have made ethereum smart contract based chess games don't know whether its p2p or p2bot one. But i think that can be coded to have p2p and bitcoin or ethereum in bet.

I have seen this thread discussing about few p2p games available this may help https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990127.0

It's great that someone finally made a pvp chess game in which we can bet.
but did they stated any website ?

And I am sure people who are interested in chess will be attracted by it

[satmas]

There is a site that you can play chess on called cgbets.com. I wouldn't know anything about the site though since I haven't tried it yet. As of right now though, there have been no scam accusations against the site from a brief research. As always though, do your own research on the site before you play.

[Omegasun]

There is a site that you can play chess on called cgbets.com. I wouldn't know anything about the site though since I haven't tried it yet. As of right now though, there have been no scam accusations against the site from a brief research. As always though, do your own research on the site before you play.

Yeah right, That site was the one i actually want to announce on my previous post, But the devs of the site didn't contact me regarding the development of the site. There is still no player on that site and useless to play online chess, i think he must do a good promotion for his site to attract more customer.