Chess Game that Used Bitcoin?

[tee-rex]

I'm still pro-human, as it were. Algorithms, even the newest ones, still need hardware to run on. If I remember correctly, every time a reigning world champion had been playing against a machine (for example Kasparov versus Deep Blue), the machine had been either a general-purpose top-of-the-notch supercomputer or a custom built device with massively parallel processing technology crafted specifically for playing chess and nothing else. And even in these cases the outcome was far from predetermined. I understand that today's regular computers are a lot faster and have a lot more memory than they were and had some twenty years ago. But I still think that they are not quite there yet to crush humiliatingly a grandmaster level chess player.

Besides, what is an estimated elo of a chess algorithm? Any chess match is time restricted, and would the algo show the same elo on some decrepit hardware given the time limitations for making a move? In my view, an estimated elo of such an algorithm is more hype than reality.

Check out this video: Hikaru Nakamura vs Stockfish minus b-pawn

Here, a grandmaster was playing against Stockfish (back in 2014, so it must have been an earlier version) where he had a pawn advantage. And then proceeded to lose.

An estimated elo of 3447 doesn't mean that in reality it would be ~3000. No. For Stockfish 7, it's elo is 3339 +-16. Surely, they predetermined older algorithms' elo and then started basing newer ones off that, and it kept going until what we have now. The only way grandmasters are able to compete with the best chess algorithms is if the algorithms have a handicap. This is the reality of it. Do a little bit of research and you'll understand how powerful they truly are. No, we're not anywhere close to "solving" chess, but the analysis of these programs is pretty top-notch

Anyway, you can always employ the old trick of passing on the moves between two chess programs. And if we have the same program playing against itself, it still boils down to how fast the underlying hardware is, right? Apparently, the faster instance of such a program will most certainly smash the slower one. Applying this logic further to programs with lower estimated elo running on faster equipment and winning against programs with higher elo running on slower equipment (as slow as required to guarantee a loss for the latter), we have no other option left but to conclude that an estimated elo of a chess program should necessarily be a function of how fast hardware is in respect to playing chess. In other words, the algorithmic strengths of a chess program can be totally negated by using scrap facilities.

Out of curiosity, could a chess program running on a slower computer even theoretically win a match against a faster instance of itself, provided all other conditions being equal? I think it is still possible to end the match in a tie, for example, due to insufficient material on the side of the faster instance of the program, but what about a victory? Or, is the outcome completely predetermined?

[adaseb]

Yeah I don't know why we are still discussing this. Chess is more of a hobby game or for fun game and not a good game for gambling since its very easy to program a bot to cheat.

[actmyname]

I'm still pro-human, as it were. Algorithms, even the newest ones, still need hardware to run on. If I remember correctly, every time a reigning world champion had been playing against a machine (for example Kasparov versus Deep Blue), the machine had been either a general-purpose top-of-the-notch supercomputer or a custom built device with massively parallel processing technology crafted specifically for playing chess and nothing else. And even in these cases the outcome was far from predetermined. I understand that today's regular computers are a lot faster and have a lot more memory than they were and had some twenty years ago. But I still think that they are not quite there yet to crush humiliatingly a grandmaster level chess player.

Besides, what is an estimated elo of a chess algorithm? Any chess match is time restricted, and would the algo show the same elo on some decrepit hardware given the time limitations for making a move? In my view, an estimated elo of such an algorithm is more hype than reality.

Check out this video: Hikaru Nakamura vs Stockfish minus b-pawn

Here, a grandmaster was playing against Stockfish (back in 2014, so it must have been an earlier version) where he had a pawn advantage. And then proceeded to lose.

An estimated elo of 3447 doesn't mean that in reality it would be ~3000. No. For Stockfish 7, it's elo is 3339 +-16. Surely, they predetermined older algorithms' elo and then started basing newer ones off that, and it kept going until what we have now. The only way grandmasters are able to compete with the best chess algorithms is if the algorithms have a handicap. This is the reality of it. Do a little bit of research and you'll understand how powerful they truly are. No, we're not anywhere close to "solving" chess, but the analysis of these programs is pretty top-notch

Anyway, you can always employ the old trick of passing on the moves between two chess programs. And if we have the same program playing against itself, it still boils down to how fast the underlying hardware is, right? Apparently, the faster instance of such a program will most certainly smash the slower one. Applying this logic further to programs with lower estimated elo running on faster equipment and winning against programs with higher elo running on slower equipment (as slow as required to guarantee a loss for the latter), we have no other option left but to conclude that an estimated elo of a chess program should necessarily be a function of how fast hardware is in respect to playing chess. In other words, the algorithmic strengths of a chess program can be totally negated by using scrap facilities.

Out of curiosity, could a chess program running on a slower computer even theoretically win a match against a faster instance of itself, provided all other conditions being equal? I think it is still possible to end the match in a tie, for example, due to insufficient material on the side of the faster instance of the program, but what about a victory? Or, is the outcome completely predetermined?

I would expect that the programs were run on systems with the same stats and configuration. I don't personally know the process but I'm sure they list it there or you may find out somewhere.

I think that inquiry is based purely on the difference in processing power. Since the technology has been advanced exponentially, many older computing processors would not be able to compete with newer ones provided there is a time limit - some may not be able to handle the algorithm, even! Maybe they'll rust before a game is finished

[bajing]

Yeah I don't know why we are still discussing this. Chess is more of a hobby game or for fun game and not a good game for gambling since its very easy to program a bot to cheat.

Yes i agree that this game can not be used as the gamblig application game because there will be cheater occurred but may be for the user bitcoin who live nearby , they can make a chess competition with a prize bitcoin

[iv4n]

I played online chess a lot before, but I didn't have a clue about existence of this little cheats. How to win easily in chess, well thanks a lot for this nice advices. Now I understand why its hard to make some gambling out of this game. Its very easy to make a scam without any special program, just some good pro chess and that's it.
Maybe with timer there is a chance to solve this problem, who can watch game and in program if there is just couple seconds for that? Maybe we can make some tournament here, with fast timer, so there will be no possibilities for this kind of scams?

[Mrmoney2]

So... is there any place to play chess online for bitcoins?
I would pay flash games like 1 minute for players them they won't have time to cheat.
If you know a site please let me know.
Thanks!

[Fraxinus]

I think there was a game that accepted BTC but I'm not sure if it's still around,it's a good idea really but there have to be more players in order for it to have the success it needs,maybe that's why I can't think of such a game right now

[crairezx20]

hello there i just want to ask if you know a gambling site that offers a PVP chess game? I want to play some chess and at the same time earn some profit,
I'm tired on playing with bot at my computer. Thanks in advance for future responds.  

Why there aren't many of these PvPs is because you won't know if you are playing with a bot.

For example
I take black, you take white.
I run a PvE chess game at maximum difficulty on my PC. (I take white)
You make your move.
I make the same move in the PvE game, wait for it to make the smartest move, and make the same move in the real game. Wait and repeat.

I was also looking for this kind of game but he answer me the same as you. Thats the risk on that no matter how good you are, you cant win with bot and it would be hard to verify if the player use bot or not.

I think they are not planning to add that game because they know that they will defeat about that game. chess is everything brain or knowledge..

[wikenpp]

So... is there any place to play chess online for bitcoins?
I would pay flash games like 1 minute for players them they won't have time to cheat.
If you know a site please let me know.
Thanks!

I am an active chess player on chess.com (not very good though) but so far the only thing that i have seen that comes to chess and crypto was the chesscoin project.
It is still in development, although they encounters some issues. But it would be great if they or another start up can realize this. Having tournaments withs BTC prizes per level sounds awesome.

[TriggerX]

How would a chess game that betted real money assure that the perso they are going against isn't using a computer to cheat. As much as I love this idea, it is really hard to distinguish people using bots and people who are good.

[wxa7115]

I played online chess a lot before, but I didn't have a clue about existence of this little cheats. How to win easily in chess, well thanks a lot for this nice advices. Now I understand why its hard to make some gambling out of this game. Its very easy to make a scam without any special program, just some good pro chess and that's it.
Maybe with timer there is a chance to solve this problem, who can watch game and in program if there is just couple seconds for that? Maybe we can make some tournament here, with fast timer, so there will be no possibilities for this kind of scams?

People will always find a way to cheat even if we played a 30 seconds game, I’m pretty sure that with enough time I could create a bot that will take the moves in the screen and then input those moves on the chess program and then do the opposite. So in my opinion there is no way around the problem with the cheaters.

[tee-rex]

I played online chess a lot before, but I didn't have a clue about existence of this little cheats. How to win easily in chess, well thanks a lot for this nice advices. Now I understand why its hard to make some gambling out of this game. Its very easy to make a scam without any special program, just some good pro chess and that's it.
Maybe with timer there is a chance to solve this problem, who can watch game and in program if there is just couple seconds for that? Maybe we can make some tournament here, with fast timer, so there will be no possibilities for this kind of scams?

People will always find a way to cheat even if we played a 30 seconds game, I’m pretty sure that with enough time I could create a bot that will take the moves in the screen and then input those moves on the chess program and then do the opposite. So in my opinion there is no way around the problem with the cheaters.

Technically, you wouldn't even need to read moves off the screen, you could just analyze the incoming http traffic. On the flipping side, the problem with cheating could still be handled by analyzing the moves of the opponents. As I understand it, the same algorithm would make the same moves given the same position, so it can be guesstimated if one or both players are using bots. Unless the bots apply some fuzzy logic or self-training neural network when searching for the best move, of course.

[FuckOffWillYou]

It`s not going to happen because of cheat-issues. You should make this tournament in a real life

[Fraxinus]

It`s not going to happen because of cheat-issues. You should make this tournament in a real life

Naah,I don't think it's because of cheating,you can also cheat on a tournament,it has to do more with how the BTC will be divided between the players
If there are more people willing to play such a game,it will exist
But hey,it first has to be made,right?

[shanem]

It`s not going to happen because of cheat-issues. You should make this tournament in a real life

Naah,I don't think it's because of cheating,you can also cheat on a tournament,it has to do more with how the BTC will be divided between the players
If there are more people willing to play such a game,it will exist
But hey,it first has to be made,right?

It is not possible to cheat in a real life tournament as there are judges watching. Many people in real life don't know about BTC so there isn't any chess tournament with BTC prizes. Playing online can be abused by using bots which will defeat the purpose of the tournament as everyone will simply use bots to play with one another.

[tee-rex]

It`s not going to happen because of cheat-issues. You should make this tournament in a real life

Naah,I don't think it's because of cheating,you can also cheat on a tournament,it has to do more with how the BTC will be divided between the players
If there are more people willing to play such a game,it will exist
But hey,it first has to be made,right?

It is not possible to cheat in a real life tournament as there are judges watching. Many people in real life don't know about BTC so there isn't any chess tournament with BTC prizes. Playing online can be abused by using bots which will defeat the purpose of the tournament as everyone will simply use bots to play with one another.

As much as I would want that to be the case, I'm afraid, it is only a matter of time when somebody tries to use (or has already tried) a transmitting device (like Google glass or an eye implant of sorts) to get an advantage by stealthily using a bot in a chess tournament. Not so long ago an elite female cyclist got caught cheating by using a bike with an electric motor hidden in the bottom bracket and connected to an electric battery inside the seat tube.

[raphma]

i never tried it, but there's a coin based on pvp chess, you should give it a try.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1549631.0
if you want to make some money playing chess, this coin is listed at yobit so you could sell your winnings.

[Omegasun]

I think there is a way to easily detect bot or any involvement of third party app in the game by observing the behaviour and the timing of it's next move. Just like on other online games. I hoped someone will develop this kind of game with a good security. Take note that the involvement of btc is just for adding excitement on the game.   

[HeroCat]

There is no chess game, that use Bitcoin, because everyone can play chess free of charge with chess software. And more popular is Dice playing with Bitcoins. Chess is also very ancient game, when computers were not avalable. 

[rampagejackson]

As much as I would want that to be the case, I'm afraid, it is only a matter of time when somebody tries to use (or has already tried) some transmitting device (like Google glass or an eye implant of sorts)

Back in about 2003 I played in a Chess tournament (live in person) and the top prize was £500; a huge amount of money for me at the time.  I was determined to win this prize at any cost but I wasn't really any good at chess. However that was minor issue for me as I had a plan.

At the time phones with a vibration alert were pretty new, so I just stuffed one up inside my ass and my friend sitting in the crowd was playing out the games on a little chess computer (many other spectators were doing similar).  Then he'd get the recommended move and keep phoning me and hanging up.   Obviously I couldn't answer the phone (since it was up my ass and probably smelled a bit funny too)... but we'd both been in the boy scouts and knew Morse Code and he was sending me the messages using that 

Easiest £500 I ever made.