BFL: Do not donate any money to charity

[MXRider]

Just let trolls complain. Nobody else cares.

Waiting for your response frizz or smoothie...

[1715657575]

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[SebastianJu]

Why should they? They didnt ship yet so they have time to fix it. And when they ship it with higher watt then its on wish of customers. That doesnt say the final product will be better. I wouldnt donate at this stage too.

[Frankie Delaney]

The charity donation was their choice, not the "trolls".

The power specs were something they used to draw customers towards their product and away from others, the charity donation was used to display the confidence they had in meeting the specs they were selling, To let them out of it now would basically be saying it's ok to lie and cheat to get sales.

[SebastianJu]

The charity donation was their choice, not the "trolls".

The power specs were something they used to draw customers towards their product and away from others, the charity donation was used to display the confidence they had in meeting the specs they were selling, To let them out of it now would basically be saying it's ok to lie and cheat to get sales.

But they dont have a product ready now. So if they manage to fix this they kept their promise. If they cant then of course the promise should be kept.

[Frankie Delaney]

The charity donation was their choice, not the "trolls".

The power specs were something they used to draw customers towards their product and away from others, the charity donation was used to display the confidence they had in meeting the specs they were selling, To let them out of it now would basically be saying it's ok to lie and cheat to get sales.

But they dont have a product ready now. So if they manage to fix this they kept their promise. If they cant then of course the promise should be kept.

Yeah, nobody is expecting them to make the donation based on lab tests. It's BFL themselves that are saying they will be shipping these high power usage units.

[SebastianJu]

The charity donation was their choice, not the "trolls".

The power specs were something they used to draw customers towards their product and away from others, the charity donation was used to display the confidence they had in meeting the specs they were selling, To let them out of it now would basically be saying it's ok to lie and cheat to get sales.

But they dont have a product ready now. So if they manage to fix this they kept their promise. If they cant then of course the promise should be kept.

Yeah, nobody is expecting them to make the donation based on lab tests. It's BFL themselves that are saying they will be shipping these high power usage units.

As far as i read only if the customer would like to have the high power units instead waiting for better ones. So they ship some betas in my opinion, not the real endproduct. Of course if they cant deliver the endproduct with the low power usage the promise has to be kept.

[Frankie Delaney]

So is it only declared a finished product once they meet the power target? Are people who have already been waiting 9 months for the product supposed to sit and watch people who ordered after them mine with these "beta"s while waiting for the proper product.

THEY set the goal, They set the consequences for missing the goal, at this point it seems entirely likely they are going to miss the goal. Why should they not face the consequence they set?

[MXRider]

So is it only declared a finished product once they meet the power target? Are people who have already been waiting 9 months for the product supposed to sit and watch people who ordered after them mine with these "beta"s while waiting for the proper product.

THEY set the goal, They set the consequences for missing the goal, at this point it seems entirely likely they are going to miss the goal. Why should they not face the consequence they set?

Everyone has had 9 months to cancel their order and ask for a refund. BFL never stated which product should be 1.1W max per gigahash. I sincerely hope that BFL doesn't give ANY money away, even if they fail miserably with the power consumption. That requirement could be for a 3rd gen. BFL ASIC.

[Frankie Delaney]

You don't see the moral issue here?

Salesman 1:"i will be building a car that has 100hp"
Salesman 2: "i will be building a car that has 200hp"
Salesman 1: "my car also has 200hp now"
Salesman 2: "my 200hp car does 30 miles per gallon"
Salesman 1: "my 200hp car does 50 miles per gallon, and i'm so confident of those figures i'll donate $100,00 to charity if it doesn't match up"
Salesman 2: "my car is finished, here it is, as promised, 200hp, and 30 miles per gallon"
Salesman 1: "my car doesn't run right, and i don't know why, it only has 100hp and does 40 miles per gallon, but don't worry, we'll just send you 2, that adds up to 200hp. Also, i'm not donating anything to charity because there's a possiblity in the future i might be able to build a car that has 200hp and does 50 miles per gallon, and some loser on a forum said it was ok to lie to get sales.

Everyone has had 9 months to cancel their order and ask for a refund. BFL never stated which product should be 1.1W max per gigahash. I sincerely hope that BFL doesn't give ANY money away, even if they fail miserably with the power consumption. That requirement could be for a 3rd gen. BFL ASIC.

Yes, yes they did. Right fucking here.

We are so confident in our power consumption that we are offering up 1000 BTC to charity if we miss our power consumption targets by more than 10%. We are offering our devices at 1 watt consumed per gigahash. If our power targets end up consuming more than 1.1w of power per gigahash, we will donate 1000 BTC to charity! How is that for confidence in our power usage?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/123-bfl-offers-1000-btc-charity-if-they-miss-their-power-targets.html

They specifically said they would be max 1.1 watts. Also, saying everyone had 9 months to cancel their order when we just found out a few days ago that the units are broken is just plain dumb.

[SebastianJu]

It seems to come down to that you claim they have to deliver now the promised product. But that wasnt part of the promise. They only said they will have such a device that will use this power only. You cant add the parameter that they have to deliver now otherwise they fail. In my opinion they still have time to meet the promise.
But i think we wont come together at this point.

[witherworth]

Why should they? They didnt ship yet so they have time to fix it. And when they ship it with higher watt then its on wish of customers. That doesnt say the final product will be better. I wouldnt donate at this stage too.

This. But I dont agree with the last half. If they ship anything at all over the 10% power consumption, then I feel they're obligated to pay. It doesn't matter if customers wanted it that way or not. If they deliver any product outside specs they promised, then they should pay IMO.

[SebastianJu]

Why should they? They didnt ship yet so they have time to fix it. And when they ship it with higher watt then its on wish of customers. That doesnt say the final product will be better. I wouldnt donate at this stage too.

This. But I dont agree with the last half. If they ship anything at all over the 10% power consumption, then I feel they're obligated to pay. It doesn't matter if customers wanted it that way or not. If they deliver any product outside specs they promised, then they should pay IMO.

If that would be the case, i in bfls foot, would simply deny to send out machines earlier if that would lead to such a huge loss of money. Then let the buyers complain that they would like to have the high power units. This way the promise isnt broken. I dont think thats the better version that could happen.
On the other hand... if the buyer wants it before, they know that its not the fully working product and cant claim afterwards that the promise is broken because they knew they demanded a non-finished product.

[yxt]

It seems to come down to that you claim they have to deliver now the promised product. But that wasnt part of the promise. They only said they will have such a device that will use this power only. You cant add the parameter that they have to deliver now otherwise they fail. In my opinion they still have time to meet the promise.
But i think we wont come together at this point.

so they can ship the final version in 10 years?  WTF??

[SebastianJu]

It seems to come down to that you claim they have to deliver now the promised product. But that wasnt part of the promise. They only said they will have such a device that will use this power only. You cant add the parameter that they have to deliver now otherwise they fail. In my opinion they still have time to meet the promise.
But i think we wont come together at this point.

so they can ship the final version in 10 years?  WTF??

If one would force them to pay 1000BTC when they deliver a beta-version of the miner?

[yxt]

what beta? they promised to ship long time ago...
force? BFL has advertised with the donation

[JordanL]

Anyone who believes that BFL is actually going to donate that amount of BTC to charity under any circumstances, please see my thread in the auction forum, I'm currently accepting bids on the Brooklyn Bridge.

[SebastianJu]

what beta? they promised to ship long time ago...
force? BFL has advertised with the donation

The bet didnt include any time promise.

[PuertoLibre]

Sebastian.....

















How much is BFL paying you?

[SebastianJu]

Sebastian.....
How much is BFL paying you?

Nothing. But when i see someone claiming unfair forces by adding additional parameters i chime in.

[yxt]

The bet didnt include any time promise.

Wrong
The date: as soon as they ship.

after team basic .....

[CoinHoarder]

@OP- Lol, do you realize how big of an asshole you sound like "DON'T DONATE ANY MONEY TO CHARITY"....

Charities do good things for people who need help...

[KGambler]

Wow.

There are so many mealy-mouthed, slippery, slimy scumbags out there.  They can justify any kind of behavior with the weakest of rationalizations.

[Flying Hellfish]

OP, you Sir are an idiot.

[smoothie]

So I just found this thread and all I can say to OP is.....LOL 

[spacegoat]

my question is why is this forum still advertising so diligently for BFL?  BFL probably runs this forum.  the new footage of the dude doing tests isn't convincing to me, we're talking about 10,000 rigs oor some crazy number 30,000.  I want to see footage of that.  that and his hand holding the camera had a nervous shake.  

maybe I'm wrong.  but if this forum is going to advertise a scam, they should be held responsible when it turns out to be a scam.  afterall probably 90% of BFL customers got there to BFL from the forum advertisements.  I would just ask that the forum stop advertising unless BFL provides hard proof that they are doing what they are claiming. (NOT HARD TO DO NOR AN UNREASONAbLE REQUEST)  

I'm talking a simple youtube video of all the people involved with all the equipment they're working on.  just a little "hello" for the public.  otherwise advertising for them is irresponsible in my opinion based on their 140 days of false promises.  

just because there's a youtube video out now of a dude working on a BFL board and talking about its specs gives me no confidence.  since I saw joshes youtube videos I haven't trusted BFL because his vibe just turns me off, he reminds me of scammers I know...  

people are like, "you will destroy your reputation for naysaying his royal highness josh zertan."  

I don't care, its a candid valid concern for our entire community.  forum, stop the advertising, or deliver proof its not a scam.  I guess if the forum sees the product with their own eyes that's good enough.  after all the forum is run by BFL, so their eyes are fine for confirming public trust.  I am just speculating what sort of blow this might have on the BTC economy cuz the pirate thing was only 6 mil, this is over 100 mil.

may I ask is there any thread that definitively proves or disproves that BFL is a royal heist?  please direct me.  and I will shut up about it if there is proof they aren't scammin.  thank you.

[Bugpowder]

my question is why is this forum still advertising so diligently for BFL?  BFL probably runs this forum.  the new footage of the dude doing tests isn't convincing to me, we're talking about 10,000 rigs oor some crazy number 30,000.  I want to see footage of that.  that and his hand holding the camera had a nervous shake.  

maybe I'm wrong.  but if this forum is going to advertise a scam, they should be held responsible when it turns out to be a scam.  afterall probably 90% of BFL customers got there to BFL from the forum advertisements.  I would just ask that the forum stop advertising unless BFL provides hard proof that they are doing what they are claiming. (NOT HARD TO DO NOR AN UNREASONAbLE REQUEST)  

I'm talking a simple youtube video of all the people involved with all the equipment they're working on.  just a little "hello" for the public.  otherwise advertising for them is irresponsible in my opinion based on their 140 days of false promises.  

just because there's a youtube video out now of a dude working on a BFL board and talking about its specs gives me no confidence.  since I saw joshes youtube videos I haven't trusted BFL because his vibe just turns me off, he reminds me of scammers I know...  

people are like, "you will destroy your reputation for naysaying his royal highness josh zertan."  

I don't care, its a candid valid concern for our entire community.  forum, stop the advertising, or deliver proof its not a scam.  I guess if the forum sees the product with their own eyes that's good enough.  after all the forum is run by BFL, so their eyes are fine for confirming public trust.  I am just speculating what sort of blow this might have on the BTC economy cuz the pirate thing was only 6 mil, this is over 100 mil.

may I ask is there any thread that definitively proves or disproves that BFL is a royal heist?  please direct me.  and I will shut up about it if there is proof they aren't scammin.  thank you.

The most likely outcome is that BFL overpromised and underdelivers. The crushing load of pre-order obligations will meet the reality of chips that run too hot under the additional pressure of lost opportunity cost as competitors deliver and network hash rate skyrockets towards 200 TH/s.  The lucky ones will get devices that run too slow, too hot or blow up.  The unlucky ones, aka those that preordered after the first month or two, will probably get nothing, as the ponzi funding stream runs dry and BFL runs out of sufficient capital to design and burn another mask for a chip that comes close to spec, company goes into liquidation. At best you will get a rig that is fraction of what was promised in a timeframe that will have seen 90% of the potential revenue from your rig go to customers of Avalon, ASICminer, and any other ASIC designer that actually built a product.  

Most startups fail, this is the nature of capitalism and competition.  If you bet on the BFL horse, its probably time to write off your loss, move on with life and hopefully develop a better horseshit detector for the next bitcoin wannabes that come asking for your money (cough, coinlab).

 

[MXRider]

So I just found this thread and all I can say to OP is.....LOL 

Really, that's the best you can do smoothzzz? Where is Frizz and creativex when you need them.

[creativex]

So I just found this thread and all I can say to OP is.....LOL  

Really, that's the best you can do smoothzzz? Where is Frizz and creativex when you need them.

Right here.

Whoever smoothzzz is...he/she is on his/her own.

BFL is full of shite btw...if you ordered from them, you have my sympathy.