BFL: Do not donate any money to charity

[MXRider]

Just let trolls complain. Nobody else cares.

Waiting for your response frizz or smoothie...

[SebastianJu]

Why should they? They didnt ship yet so they have time to fix it. And when they ship it with higher watt then its on wish of customers. That doesnt say the final product will be better. I wouldnt donate at this stage too.

[Frankie Delaney]

The charity donation was their choice, not the "trolls".

The power specs were something they used to draw customers towards their product and away from others, the charity donation was used to display the confidence they had in meeting the specs they were selling, To let them out of it now would basically be saying it's ok to lie and cheat to get sales.

[SebastianJu]

The charity donation was their choice, not the "trolls".

The power specs were something they used to draw customers towards their product and away from others, the charity donation was used to display the confidence they had in meeting the specs they were selling, To let them out of it now would basically be saying it's ok to lie and cheat to get sales.

But they dont have a product ready now. So if they manage to fix this they kept their promise. If they cant then of course the promise should be kept.

[Frankie Delaney]

The charity donation was their choice, not the "trolls".

The power specs were something they used to draw customers towards their product and away from others, the charity donation was used to display the confidence they had in meeting the specs they were selling, To let them out of it now would basically be saying it's ok to lie and cheat to get sales.

But they dont have a product ready now. So if they manage to fix this they kept their promise. If they cant then of course the promise should be kept.

Yeah, nobody is expecting them to make the donation based on lab tests. It's BFL themselves that are saying they will be shipping these high power usage units.

[SebastianJu]

The charity donation was their choice, not the "trolls".

The power specs were something they used to draw customers towards their product and away from others, the charity donation was used to display the confidence they had in meeting the specs they were selling, To let them out of it now would basically be saying it's ok to lie and cheat to get sales.

But they dont have a product ready now. So if they manage to fix this they kept their promise. If they cant then of course the promise should be kept.

Yeah, nobody is expecting them to make the donation based on lab tests. It's BFL themselves that are saying they will be shipping these high power usage units.

As far as i read only if the customer would like to have the high power units instead waiting for better ones. So they ship some betas in my opinion, not the real endproduct. Of course if they cant deliver the endproduct with the low power usage the promise has to be kept.

[Frankie Delaney]

So is it only declared a finished product once they meet the power target? Are people who have already been waiting 9 months for the product supposed to sit and watch people who ordered after them mine with these "beta"s while waiting for the proper product.

THEY set the goal, They set the consequences for missing the goal, at this point it seems entirely likely they are going to miss the goal. Why should they not face the consequence they set?

[MXRider]

So is it only declared a finished product once they meet the power target? Are people who have already been waiting 9 months for the product supposed to sit and watch people who ordered after them mine with these "beta"s while waiting for the proper product.

THEY set the goal, They set the consequences for missing the goal, at this point it seems entirely likely they are going to miss the goal. Why should they not face the consequence they set?

Everyone has had 9 months to cancel their order and ask for a refund. BFL never stated which product should be 1.1W max per gigahash. I sincerely hope that BFL doesn't give ANY money away, even if they fail miserably with the power consumption. That requirement could be for a 3rd gen. BFL ASIC.

[Frankie Delaney]

You don't see the moral issue here?

Salesman 1:"i will be building a car that has 100hp"
Salesman 2: "i will be building a car that has 200hp"
Salesman 1: "my car also has 200hp now"
Salesman 2: "my 200hp car does 30 miles per gallon"
Salesman 1: "my 200hp car does 50 miles per gallon, and i'm so confident of those figures i'll donate $100,00 to charity if it doesn't match up"
Salesman 2: "my car is finished, here it is, as promised, 200hp, and 30 miles per gallon"
Salesman 1: "my car doesn't run right, and i don't know why, it only has 100hp and does 40 miles per gallon, but don't worry, we'll just send you 2, that adds up to 200hp. Also, i'm not donating anything to charity because there's a possiblity in the future i might be able to build a car that has 200hp and does 50 miles per gallon, and some loser on a forum said it was ok to lie to get sales.

Everyone has had 9 months to cancel their order and ask for a refund. BFL never stated which product should be 1.1W max per gigahash. I sincerely hope that BFL doesn't give ANY money away, even if they fail miserably with the power consumption. That requirement could be for a 3rd gen. BFL ASIC.

Yes, yes they did. Right fucking here.

We are so confident in our power consumption that we are offering up 1000 BTC to charity if we miss our power consumption targets by more than 10%. We are offering our devices at 1 watt consumed per gigahash. If our power targets end up consuming more than 1.1w of power per gigahash, we will donate 1000 BTC to charity! How is that for confidence in our power usage?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/123-bfl-offers-1000-btc-charity-if-they-miss-their-power-targets.html

They specifically said they would be max 1.1 watts. Also, saying everyone had 9 months to cancel their order when we just found out a few days ago that the units are broken is just plain dumb.

[SebastianJu]

It seems to come down to that you claim they have to deliver now the promised product. But that wasnt part of the promise. They only said they will have such a device that will use this power only. You cant add the parameter that they have to deliver now otherwise they fail. In my opinion they still have time to meet the promise.
But i think we wont come together at this point.

[witherworth]

Why should they? They didnt ship yet so they have time to fix it. And when they ship it with higher watt then its on wish of customers. That doesnt say the final product will be better. I wouldnt donate at this stage too.

This. But I dont agree with the last half. If they ship anything at all over the 10% power consumption, then I feel they're obligated to pay. It doesn't matter if customers wanted it that way or not. If they deliver any product outside specs they promised, then they should pay IMO.

[SebastianJu]

Why should they? They didnt ship yet so they have time to fix it. And when they ship it with higher watt then its on wish of customers. That doesnt say the final product will be better. I wouldnt donate at this stage too.

This. But I dont agree with the last half. If they ship anything at all over the 10% power consumption, then I feel they're obligated to pay. It doesn't matter if customers wanted it that way or not. If they deliver any product outside specs they promised, then they should pay IMO.

If that would be the case, i in bfls foot, would simply deny to send out machines earlier if that would lead to such a huge loss of money. Then let the buyers complain that they would like to have the high power units. This way the promise isnt broken. I dont think thats the better version that could happen.
On the other hand... if the buyer wants it before, they know that its not the fully working product and cant claim afterwards that the promise is broken because they knew they demanded a non-finished product.

[yxt]

It seems to come down to that you claim they have to deliver now the promised product. But that wasnt part of the promise. They only said they will have such a device that will use this power only. You cant add the parameter that they have to deliver now otherwise they fail. In my opinion they still have time to meet the promise.
But i think we wont come together at this point.

so they can ship the final version in 10 years?  WTF??

[SebastianJu]

It seems to come down to that you claim they have to deliver now the promised product. But that wasnt part of the promise. They only said they will have such a device that will use this power only. You cant add the parameter that they have to deliver now otherwise they fail. In my opinion they still have time to meet the promise.
But i think we wont come together at this point.

so they can ship the final version in 10 years?  WTF??

If one would force them to pay 1000BTC when they deliver a beta-version of the miner?

[yxt]

what beta? they promised to ship long time ago...
force? BFL has advertised with the donation

[JordanL]

Anyone who believes that BFL is actually going to donate that amount of BTC to charity under any circumstances, please see my thread in the auction forum, I'm currently accepting bids on the Brooklyn Bridge.

[SebastianJu]

what beta? they promised to ship long time ago...
force? BFL has advertised with the donation

The bet didnt include any time promise.

[PuertoLibre]

Sebastian.....

















How much is BFL paying you?

[SebastianJu]

Sebastian.....
How much is BFL paying you?

Nothing. But when i see someone claiming unfair forces by adding additional parameters i chime in.

[yxt]

The bet didnt include any time promise.

Wrong
The date: as soon as they ship.

after team basic .....