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Author Topic: I just got hacked - any help is welcome! (25,000 BTC stolen)  (Read 343726 times)
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June 17, 2011, 09:02:47 AM
 #421

Im sceptical of the OP's claims. The glairing waving red flag for me is that he hasnt filed a police report. Who looses $500k and doesnt run to the police? I think that a police report being filed and the OP providing the name of the detective would provide some credibility. With the detectives name a reputable journalist would be able to confirm a police report being filed.

With recent hoaxs I am inclined to think that this is a hoax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTTwcCVajAc

allinvain is almost certainly not lying.

and he claimed in this very thread to have filed a police report. see message #266. i suppose i can understand your not wanting to read all 423 messages before yours, but how can you accuse a long-time poster of lying on the particular basis of not filing a police report without at least checking to see if he had?

(that said, 'go to the police' is a far better response than quoting omertà as if you're a mafioso, as shooter_mcgavin did.)
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. Hybrid server-assisted clients like Electrum get a lot of their network information from centralized servers, but they also check the server's results using blockchain header data. This is perhaps somewhat more secure than either server-assisted clients or header-only clients.
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allinvain
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June 17, 2011, 09:06:23 AM
 #422

yep..definitely better advice...next step ..the FBI..

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June 17, 2011, 09:08:07 AM
 #423

You are correct that it is a strong view of property rights. I am not a socialist. I do not believe in a pure mob-rule democracy, which is indespensible to socialism, and redistribution of wealth. I believe in un-a-lien-able birth rights that can never be taken away. I believe it is my responsibility to protect my rights, my property, and my wealth which I have collected and paid for with my blood, sweat, and tears. I believe I have the right to donate and share my wealth, just as firmly as I believe that I have the right not to. I do not believe that is stronger than any legal system in existence.

right, my point is that this sort of extremism still doesn't matter; you ought to agree with practical suggestions for bitcoin regardless, or at least provide a reason they wouldn't improve the product.

(at least, that's true unless your political philosophy is so extreme that you actually want there to be strife caused by the product because it promotes a kind of social darwinism. the way many people in this forum talk, you'd think they'd like the idea of harsh legal rules that cause suffering even, hypothetically, if resources weren't scarce and there weren't a need for their capitalistic allocation in the first place. it's as if the mechanism in response to scarce resources is accepted as a moral primitive on faith as a positive thing in its own right. that is a bizarre political philosophy held by almost nobody except those with unstudied intuitions on the matter, but i'd rather not debate political philosophy in detail here; it's exceedingly frustrating to do so.)

in any event, i'm not talking about impressing jeff garzik or gavin andresen into service to add a feature i like; i'm giving them a suggestion that would help many end users. i'd code it myself, but the coding is not difficult, nor is it the main barrier to adoption; it would require a somewhat coordinated decision because it could lead to disagreements among clients about valid transactions in future. that is not, of course, a weighty reason against its adoption in the present.

Again, I have never disagreed with a software design more protecting of the BTC wallet.

I have no political philosophy. I am a political eunic. I do not think we should have parties giving us minor issues to fight over, to divide and conquer us, and to keep us distracted from the real issues affecting us daily. I believe all political parties are identical at the top on the major issues most do not know about.

My extreme beliefs are quite simple really. Anyone should be able to do anything they damn well please unless they are hurting others, causing others loss, or infringing on the rights and property of another. Hardly extreme or radical. It might seem extreme compared to your ideology though. I do not blame you. I just think you have been indoctrinated and manipulated. Groupthink/speak is never good. The individual is what matters most. It's great to help others. I love helping others. I just dont want to be indoctrinated, manipulated, and forced at gunpoint to do it.

The only reason its being forced upon us is so that we can be controlled. Thats enslavement, son. Pure and simple serfdom. All it takes to be enslaved is to be obligated. That's it. It does not have to be chains of steel, in a jail cell, and you do not have to be hanging on a wall.

Your ideology is just another tool for the control grid, just like the central banking system of debt based fiat currency and a million others. Sad thing is most tools they use are so manipulated in normal life, well-hidden, and visually insignificant that we will never recognise a fraction of them. The people dont even understand their enemy. Most dont even know that an enemy exists. Yet they have no explanation for declining freedom, liberties, wealth, health, society in general, morality and values, relationships, and socialist education systems. Things just keep getting worse and few know why. Then they give us the pre-made answer to the situation they have created. One world, one dream. Everyone put their "stuff" in a pile and share. More oppressive laws. More tyrannical leadership.  More radical movements. Gradually stripping away from us our freedom, liberty, and everything else we value, indoctrinating many to volunteer for it.

Our common bond is freedom.

Nothing else.

Without freedom you can never have anything you propose to value, and it's being stripped away from us one interest dollar at a time. One socialist curriculum at a time. One right and liberty at a time.

We are on the same side in the same battle for the same war.

You just dont realise it.

They are using you.


With recent hoaxs I am inclined to think that this is a hoax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTTwcCVajAc

i am still laughing - thanks for that.


"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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June 17, 2011, 10:09:09 AM
 #424

I have a suggestion of what may have happened - and its a security flaw that many people fall into.
(I didn't read all 20 plus pages, so perhaps this was already mentioned)

Most people use the exact same login and password for everything, as a matter of convenience.
Those people sign up for services online (signing up for a bitcoin lottery, signing up for a mining pool, etc etc etc) and use the same username and password they use everywhere else. So what can happen, is owner of such a site can not only store your username and password, but log your ip you signed up with. Now assume that you're running an SSH server, and again you're using the same username and password. All that would have to be done is that the owner of such a site tries to ssh into your machine over the standard port 22 using the ip address, username and password of each person that signed up on the site.  They would be bound to get into somebody's machine, almost guaranteed.

For these reasons, I use a different password for everything I sign up for, and I use non-standard ports for services such as ssh.  I would suggest everyone do something similar as this is a VERY common flaw found everywhere on the internet! 

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June 17, 2011, 10:19:21 AM
 #425

Call me cynical but I just dont belive it. Contacting the police and filing a police report are two different things. My guess would be that they would want some kind of proof. My guess is they would request the computer in question. Maybe there is some nefarious reason why he doesnt want to turn over his computer. OP spoke of RMCP now he is speaking about the FBI as the next step. If he is Canadian why would he go to the FBI and not T4? This is just another red flag for me.

What we need here is a Canadian that can contact the RMCP and inquire what their procedures are. It just seams strange to me that the cyber division or finacial fraud division wouldnt take this case.

Im not saying this incident didnt happen, but Im also not prepaired to say that it did. Lets face it, a hoax requires you to believe the hoaxster. And for the record, in my book a hoaxster and liar are to different people.

Now for a bit of advice, if true. Contact local media. A tv station would love this story, its historic. The more media attention it receives the more pressure it will place on the investigation authorities to take action. Providing the name of the investigating officer you filed the police report with in the forum would also pressure the investigating authorities. If tv media were to pick it up and speak with the investigaters involed I would be more likely to believe you. Come on what tv reporter wouldnt want a scoop on $500K being stolen. Hell you could point them to this forum, it might help sway them into doing a peice on your theft.

But for the time being, until I see more evidence Im not convinced.

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June 17, 2011, 10:19:49 AM
 #426

I believe in un-a-lien-able birth rights that can never be taken away.

Hmmmm, "un-a-lien-able" as in liens? That'd make you a member of the sovereign citizen movement, or something similar?

I have never disagreed with a software design more protecting of the BTC wallet, but it does not exist, and i do not believe bitcoin holds any responsibility to create one.
If they want Bitcoin to be widely used, they kinda do. There are existing methods of transferring and storing money that are easier to protect against this attack than Bitcoin is, and are accepted in more places to boot. What's more, if no-one uses Bitcoin, then the bitcoins themselves are fundamentally worthless.

So the onus is on the user to protect their home, property, wealth, and bitcoin wallet.
Not using bitcoin seems like the most sensible way of protecting your wealth from attackers who're trying to steal your bitcoin wallet to me.

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June 17, 2011, 10:30:31 AM
 #427

Call me cynical but I just dont belive it. Contacting the police and filing a police report are two different things. My guess would be that they would want some kind of proof. My guess is they would request the computer in question. Maybe there is some nefarious reason why he doesnt want to turn over his computer. OP spoke of RMCP now he is speaking about the FBI as the next step. If he is Canadian why would he go to the FBI and not T4? This is just another red flag for me.

What we need here is a Canadian that can contact the RMCP and inquire what their procedures are. It just seams strange to me that the cyber division or finacial fraud division wouldnt take this case.

Im not saying this incident didnt happen, but Im also not prepaired to say that it did. Lets face it, a hoax requires you to believe the hoaxster. And for the record, in my book a hoaxster and liar are to different people.

Now for a bit of advice, if true. Contact local media. A tv station would love this story, its historic. The more media attention it receives the more pressure it will place on the investigation authorities to take action. Providing the name of the investigating officer you filed the police report with in the forum would also pressure the investigating authorities. If tv media were to pick it up and speak with the investigaters involed I would be more likely to believe you. Come on what tv reporter wouldnt want a scoop on $500K being stolen. Hell you could point them to this forum, it might help sway them into doing a peice on your theft.

But for the time being, until I see more evidence Im not convinced.

Why FBI? Because I believe the thief lives in the United States. RCMP does not have jurisdiction there.

No TV or local media or whatever. I don't want nor require any press, media coverage, or attention. I do not believe any media coverage can be of any use.

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June 17, 2011, 10:53:16 AM
 #428

If you believe your anonymity is worth $500K so be it. What do I care, its not my money. Anyway, best of luck to you if its true and if its a hoax.

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June 17, 2011, 11:19:11 AM
 #429

it would require a somewhat coordinated decision because it could lead to disagreements among clients about valid transactions in future. that is not, of course, a weighty reason against its adoption in the present.

Just thinking aloud: a client could be released that will switch over to the new protocol at a certain event like a future block number + date (block number against bad clocks/timing issues, date against sudden increase in miners, whichever comes later) so you can have a sufficient period with people updating before everyone switches at the same time. If the switchover fails, client falls back to previous mode, network rejects those that don't. If switchover works then those that have not updated by then are rejected, forcing a client update. Don't know if there is a 'your client is no longer compatible/outdated' message in there already (or protocol version check or similar) but maybe you could have another update before adding that.
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June 17, 2011, 11:37:00 AM
 #430

http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/all-your-bitcoins-are-ours

Has this been posted yet?

http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2011-061615-3651-99

Or that?
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June 17, 2011, 12:13:44 PM
 #431

Hmmmm, "un-a-lien-able" as in liens? That'd make you a member of the sovereign citizen movement, or something similar?

No I do not believe in the sovereign citizen movement. I do not believe in the "redemption strawman acceptance for value" programs. If they are true or not I do not know, but I have seen no evidence one way or the other. I believe I am an American Citizen. One with rights no one can take away. Now if some evidence comes along proving otherwise, you can bet I'll be the first one change my stance on it. I believe in the constitution and bill of rights.


If they want Bitcoin to be widely used, they kinda do. There are existing methods of transferring and storing money that are easier to protect against this attack than Bitcoin is, and are accepted in more places to boot. What's more, if no-one uses Bitcoin, then the bitcoins themselves are fundamentally worthless.

I agree that negative perception by an uneducated populace unwilling to think for themselves and unwilling to excersize personal responsibility, regardless of facts and realities, could negatively affect wide usage of bitcoin.


Not using bitcoin seems like the most sensible way of protecting your wealth from attackers who're trying to steal your bitcoin wallet to me.

I agree 100%, and anyone: not willing to think for themselves, excersize some personal responsibility, who will grasp at straws to blame anyone other than themselves as a scapegoat, should definately not be using the bitcoin system.


"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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June 17, 2011, 12:20:21 PM
 #432


Not using bitcoin seems like the most sensible way of protecting your wealth from attackers who're trying to steal your bitcoin wallet to me.

[/quote]

I guess you are right...nobody steals cash, credit card info, bank info, vehicles, houses (quitclaim deeds)...or for that matter just personal info...anything that someone deems as having value will be stolen by the next shady person who thinks it has value also...trust nobody, protect yourself and you will have nobody to blame but you.
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June 17, 2011, 12:37:28 PM
 #433

I agree that negative perception by an uneducated populace unwilling to think for themselves and unwilling to excersize personal responsibility, regardless of facts and realities, could negatively affect wide usage of bitcoin.
I agree 100%, and anyone: not willing to think for themselves, excersize some personal responsibility, who will grasp at straws to blame anyone other than themselves as a scapegoat, should definately not be using the bitcoin system.

In what way is coming to the conclusion that the effort required to securely use bitcoin plus the risk of losing your money despite your attempts at security isn't worth the benefits to be gained not exercising "personal responsibility" and thinking for yourself? It sounds very much like you're implying anyone who doesn't come to the same conclusion as you must be brainwashed, which is a very annoying and tiresome argument indeed. (Partly because I've heard it far too many times from far too many different groups.)

Edit:
I guess you are right...nobody steals cash, credit card info, bank info, vehicles, houses (quitclaim deeds)...or for that matter just personal info...anything that someone deems as having value will be stolen by the next shady person who thinks it has value also...trust nobody, protect yourself and you will have nobody to blame but you.

Well, yes... which is why pretty much no-one keeps all their savings in cash, banks have various methods to prevent fraudulent credit card and bank transactions and contractual obligations to refund them, there's infrastructure in place to identify and track stolen vehicles, and only people who are both rich and naive buy houses via quitclaim deeds.

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June 17, 2011, 01:17:36 PM
 #434

In what way is coming to the conclusion that the effort required to securely use bitcoin plus the risk of losing your money despite your attempts at security isn't worth the benefits to be gained not exercising "personal responsibility" and thinking for yourself?

For the 3rd or 4th time now, I have never disagreed with a software design more protecting of the BTC wallet. I simply believe it isnt needed and bitoin holds no responsibility to develop it.


It sounds very much like you're implying anyone who doesn't come to the same conclusion as you must be brainwashed, which is a very annoying and tiresome argument indeed. (Partly because I've heard it far too many times from far too many different groups.)

so "far to many groups" agree with my stance and not yours "far to many times" ?

I can certainly understand your exhaustion and frustration.

I don't agree with it but I can understand it.

Just throwing this out there ... Ever think that possibly they are right and you are wrong ?


Well, yes... which is why pretty much no-one keeps all their savings in cash, banks have various methods to prevent fraudulent credit card and bank transactions and contractual obligations to refund them, there's infrastructure in place to identify and track stolen vehicles

I disagree with this as well. I know MANY people who keep the lions share of their wealth in tangible physical items they can protect and have instant access to should they need to buy, sell, or trade.

"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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June 17, 2011, 02:11:07 PM
 #435

For the 3rd or 4th time now, I have never disagreed with a software design more protecting of the BTC wallet. I simply believe it isnt needed and bitoin holds not responsibility to develop it.
And I think people would be quite sensible if they refused to use bitcoin as a result.

so "far to many groups" agree with my stance and not yours "far to many times" ?
No, far too many groups consider any opinion contrary to their own to be a result of brainwashing. It's pretty much the only thing they all have in common, so they can't all be right...

I disagree with this as well. I know MANY people who keep the lions share of their wealth in tangible physical items they can protect and have instant access to should they need to buy, sell, or trade.
How traceable and easy to fence are those items, and how many of them have been robbed so far?

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June 17, 2011, 02:25:23 PM
 #436

If you believe your anonymity is worth $500K so be it. What do I care, its not my money. Anyway, best of luck to you if its true and if its a hoax.

I'm sorry I hope you take no offence, but what are you talking about. How does me going to the media help me in any way? What are they going to do? Donate me some BTC out of pity? The only realistic way to pursue this is using the legal/justice system. I do not mind revealing my identity to the proper authorities.

But thanks for the best wishes.

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June 17, 2011, 03:12:26 PM
 #437

If you believe your anonymity is worth $500K so be it. What do I care, its not my money. Anyway, best of luck to you if its true and if its a hoax.

I'm sorry I hope you take no offence, but what are you talking about. How does me going to the media help me in any way? What are they going to do? Donate me some BTC out of pity? The only realistic way to pursue this is using the legal/justice system. I do not mind revealing my identity to the proper authorities.

But thanks for the best wishes.

Newsflash: the media aren't the ones who find kidnapped children but people do get in the effect because of it.

of course it's not $500K anymore now is it?

more like $375K

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Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
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June 17, 2011, 03:18:56 PM
 #438

If you believe your anonymity is worth $500K so be it. What do I care, its not my money. Anyway, best of luck to you if its true and if its a hoax.

I'm sorry I hope you take no offence, but what are you talking about. How does me going to the media help me in any way? What are they going to do? Donate me some BTC out of pity? The only realistic way to pursue this is using the legal/justice system. I do not mind revealing my identity to the proper authorities.

But thanks for the best wishes.

like the police would do anything for us. theyre probably treating it as seriously as a stolen bike.

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June 17, 2011, 03:20:04 PM
 #439

If you believe your anonymity is worth $500K so be it. What do I care, its not my money. Anyway, best of luck to you if its true and if its a hoax.

I'm sorry I hope you take no offence, but what are you talking about. How does me going to the media help me in any way? What are they going to do? Donate me some BTC out of pity? The only realistic way to pursue this is using the legal/justice system. I do not mind revealing my identity to the proper authorities.

But thanks for the best wishes.

like the police would do anything for us. theyre probably treating it as seriously as a stolen bike.

Stolen monopoly money is more accurate.
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June 17, 2011, 03:47:56 PM
 #440

Yeah they have no clue what BTC is and when I I tried to explain it to them they looked at me funny as if I came to them to report stolen monopoly money. The whole anonymity thing really killed it for them. They said something along the lines "So let me get this straight, you have no idea who may have taken it, where it when, how it happened, and what do you expect us to do?" I badly paraphrasing there but you get the picture.


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