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Author Topic: I just got hacked - any help is welcome! (25,000 BTC stolen)  (Read 343446 times)
cypherdoc
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June 18, 2011, 04:58:12 PM
 #481


Thanks for the guide. So, the wallet.dat file doesn't have to be "connected" to the internet, ever, to deposit money into it?


No, it doesn't.  A user can create a new wallet.dat file on an unconnecte machine (by installing and starting the client, then shutting the client back down safely) copy the receiving address that the client produces onto any medium, copying the wallet.dat file onto a cheap thumbdrive, put the thumbdrive into a safe, and send coins from his mybitcoin.com account to the receiving address into the indefinate future.  This is pretty much what I do for my long term savings, as I have just such a setup.  I have a special address in my mybitcoin.com addressbook called "savings" that I send my overage to, and I don't have to take my thumbdrive out of the safe to do it.

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What about withdrawals?

This requires the wallet.dat file.

do u ever worry about consolidating all ur coins onto one address in the blockchain?  what about a collision? 

i know this has been discussed a zillion times but what if the gov't decides to brute force the top 10 btc address holders? 
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imperi
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June 18, 2011, 05:19:47 PM
 #482


Thanks for the guide. So, the wallet.dat file doesn't have to be "connected" to the internet, ever, to deposit money into it?


No, it doesn't.  A user can create a new wallet.dat file on an unconnecte machine (by installing and starting the client, then shutting the client back down safely) copy the receiving address that the client produces onto any medium, copying the wallet.dat file onto a cheap thumbdrive, put the thumbdrive into a safe, and send coins from his mybitcoin.com account to the receiving address into the indefinate future.  This is pretty much what I do for my long term savings, as I have just such a setup.  I have a special address in my mybitcoin.com addressbook called "savings" that I send my overage to, and I don't have to take my thumbdrive out of the safe to do it.

Quote

What about withdrawals?

This requires the wallet.dat file.

do u ever worry about consolidating all ur coins onto one address in the blockchain?  what about a collision? 

i know this has been discussed a zillion times but what if the gov't decides to brute force the top 10 btc address holders? 

You can't brute-force SHA-2 with contemporary technology.
allinvain
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June 18, 2011, 05:46:06 PM
 #483

Sorry for not responding. As you can see this thread has grown by leaps and bounds and I'm having a hard time keeping up with it.

No problem, I just wanted your opinion on what I thought was a great idea.

I like the idea of a database of stolen coins. This service can be provided at a cost so whoever is running it can still make some money to maintain it.

However I don't think this modification will ever be accepted into the official client. My feelings are that bitcoin will not change at a core level at all.

I think the key here is that this wouldn't be an enforced change. It's just added functionality. A more transparent block chain for the average user with an option to block addresses and those tied to it.

It actually gives more power to the individual through information and control of his coins.

Nice. So this would be like each bitcoin user having the ability of banks to track marked bills. Well if you can convince the head developers to implement this feature.

Another neat feature that just popped in my head as I was driving today was if there was a way to divide a wallet into several chunks WITHOUT sending the money through the bitcoin network. What this means is the wallet.dat would get divided into however many pieces you want. So for example one could splice a chunk of your mail wallet from a machine that is totally offline..copy it to usb drive, move it to a another secure machine and copy it over, and proceed to send payments from that machine. This way the offline machine would never have to be connected to the internet - ever.

I've suggested this to Gavin.


TraderTimm
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June 18, 2011, 06:38:56 PM
 #484

Only a crowd of idiots would gather around a good system and insist it be the exact opposite.

Traceable coins? Banned keys?

What the hell is wrong with you guys? And I do mean that collectively. Talk about design-by-committee. What an utter pile of fail.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
joepie91
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June 18, 2011, 07:49:36 PM
 #485

But when it comes to something as personal as money all bets are off.

True, but if there is enough proof and enough people take action, one would be taking a risk to accept "tainted" coins. They might not be able to spend them!
The issue with that is that you would still be forced to use the tainted coins system, only you are forced by fear, rather than by a technical implementation.

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TraderTimm
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June 18, 2011, 10:30:07 PM
 #486


The coins are already traceable... have you heard of the block chain?

Not banned, voluntarily blacklisted by the individual user.

Lets say you sold apples. Would you sell your apples to someone who got their money by stealing it from your neighbor? Maybe you would, but I wouldn't.

This is exactly what we are talking about. Nothing that goes against any of the key strengths of Bitcoin. No changes to the Bitcoin network are required. All that's needed is software that audits the block chain and gives the ability to ignore addresses.

Did you even read it before getting your panties in a bunch?

I'm aware of the blockchain.

You are trying to 'solve' something that turns a system that acts like cash into something that doesn't.

Let us know when the big brother client gets rolling, so I can avoid it Smiley

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Swishercutter
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June 18, 2011, 10:33:40 PM
 #487


The coins are already traceable... have you heard of the block chain?

Not banned, voluntarily blacklisted by the individual user.

Lets say you sold apples. Would you sell your apples to someone who got their money by stealing it from your neighbor? Maybe you would, but I wouldn't.

This is exactly what we are talking about. Nothing that goes against any of the key strengths of Bitcoin. No changes to the Bitcoin network are required. All that's needed is software that audits the block chain and gives the ability to ignore addresses.

Did you even read it before getting your panties in a bunch?

I'm aware of the blockchain.

You are trying to 'solve' something that turns a system that acts like cash into something that doesn't.

Let us know when the big brother client gets rolling, so I can avoid it Smiley


+1...someone is trying to ruin what makes Bitcoin great...protect yourselves people, otherwise if you need someone holding your hand stay with the current banking system. 

Someone should start a thread polling the early adopters to see how many (if any) would be stupid enough to leave 25k Bitcoins unprotected.  I don't even have 20btc and my wallet is.
cschmitz
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June 18, 2011, 11:35:44 PM
 #488

The best part of this whole charade:

The guy who previously had virus/trojan alerts on his bitcoin wallet machine, the one that happens to be the same guy that supposedly lost 3.6 or so BTC from his Mt.Gox account 12 hours before his wallet was looted clean, the guy who didnt move his funds out of his wallet after his Mt.Gox was compromised.... is posting back and forth on security concepts related to bitcoin and suggesting improvements.

You were a tragic case, you turned into a troll, now it is just a sad blind person debating on colors and not letting it slide.

I call BS on the whole affair.

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ixne
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June 19, 2011, 01:07:14 AM
 #489


I'm aware of the blockchain.

You are trying to 'solve' something that turns a system that acts like cash into something that doesn't.

Let us know when the big brother client gets rolling, so I can avoid it Smiley


All he is talking about is adding a feature to ignore any address the user chooses.  Man, with all the paranoia on this forum you'd think people here were beaten by the Stasi as children.
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June 19, 2011, 01:38:49 AM
 #490


I'm aware of the blockchain.

You are trying to 'solve' something that turns a system that acts like cash into something that doesn't.

Let us know when the big brother client gets rolling, so I can avoid it Smiley


All he is talking about is adding a feature to ignore any address the user chooses.  Man, with all the paranoia on this forum you'd think people here were beaten by the Stasi as children.

Paranoid because I have been paying attention.  Sometimes I wish the blinders were on.
Swishercutter
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June 19, 2011, 03:44:25 AM
 #491


I'm aware of the blockchain.

You are trying to 'solve' something that turns a system that acts like cash into something that doesn't.

Let us know when the big brother client gets rolling, so I can avoid it Smiley



+1...someone is trying to ruin what makes Bitcoin great...protect yourselves people, otherwise if you need someone holding your hand stay with the current banking system.  

Someone should start a thread polling the early adopters to see how many (if any) would be stupid enough to leave 25k Bitcoins unprotected.  I don't even have 20btc and my wallet is.

I don't get it. Big brother? Are you reading my posts man? What part of individual voluntary blacklisting don't you understand?

There is no holding of hands. There is no central authority. This is individuals being responsible for the money they use. Period. This agrees with everything Bitcoin in every way imaginable.

As I said, I would not blacklist the address that was involved with these 25,000 coins. But if someone was murdered for their Bitcoins, and we were able to positively link the address to the murderer, I would damn well choose not to accept those coins personally. You can accept them all day if you want. See how individual voluntary blacklisting would work?

Who decides what gets on the blacklist?  How is that not a central authority?  All it takes is enough people to go along with the blacklist...and enough people claiming that certain btc need to be blacklisted to discredit the entire system.  The point is who decides...I still have seen very little proof that ANY btc need to be blacklisted....you do what you want...follow blockexplorer and you can make your own list.
Swishercutter
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June 19, 2011, 03:53:27 AM
 #492

Who decides what gets on the blacklist?  How is that not a central authority?  All it takes is enough people to go along with the blacklist...and enough people claiming that certain btc need to be blacklisted to discredit the entire system.  The point is who decides...I still have seen very little proof that ANY btc need to be blacklisted....you do what you want...follow blockexplorer and you can make your own list.

You decide! You blacklist the address! You! Good lord. Did I not say individual voluntary blacklisting enough times.

People can present their evidence, you can choose.

Yes, you can follow block explorer now. But you can't enter addresses in the client that you want to block. You would have to check the address after a transaction and return the coins. And then your address would be linked with that address, which is what I'm trying to avoid in the first place. I don't want my coins mixed up with Hilter's coins. Get it?

Plus browsing the block chain is tedious for a human when it could be simple for a machine.

The point is that when retailers/exchanges start following the blacklist it changes it into something that is controlled by an entity which may or may not have accurate information. 

It's just my opinion that Bitcoin is fine the way it is...if I lose all my BTC so be it...just like if I lose my cash so be it.
allinvain
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June 19, 2011, 04:08:11 AM
 #493

Who decides what gets on the blacklist?  How is that not a central authority?  All it takes is enough people to go along with the blacklist...and enough people claiming that certain btc need to be blacklisted to discredit the entire system.  The point is who decides...I still have seen very little proof that ANY btc need to be blacklisted....you do what you want...follow blockexplorer and you can make your own list.

You decide! You blacklist the address! You! Good lord. Did I not say individual voluntary blacklisting enough times.

People can present their evidence, you can choose.

Yes, you can follow block explorer now. But you can't enter addresses in the client that you want to block. You would have to check the address after a transaction and return the coins. And then your address would be linked with that address, which is what I'm trying to avoid in the first place. I don't want my coins mixed up with Hilter's coins. Get it?

Plus browsing the block chain is tedious for a human when it could be simple for a machine.

Holliday, I think you should just give up. It seems some people can't even read what you're typing or have severe comprehension problems.

Swishercutter
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June 19, 2011, 04:11:39 AM
 #494

The point is that when retailers/exchanges start following the blacklist it changes it into something that is controlled by an entity which may or may not have accurate information. 

It's just my opinion that Bitcoin is fine the way it is...if I lose all my BTC so be it...just like if I lose my cash so be it.

There is no central blacklist. There is no website that has a list. It would just be an option to avoid addresses you don't want to do business with. It's that simple.

If a retailer or an exchange chooses to blacklist an address, they lose business from that address. This isn't central control. It's voluntary.

You are trying to make the idea into big brother when it isn't. It's quite the opposite. I'll try to give you an example.

I'm suggesting everyone carry a gun to protect themselves and others from assault.

You are saying that I'm asking for a police force with authority that the average citizen doesn't have.

I'm only suggesting people police themselves. What is so scary about that?





You are suggesting that people ban certain coins/wallets based on things that cannot be proven, I understand its voluntary, as is participation in a decentralized currency...that is my point. Some people like the decentralization...some don't, if you want this tracking make it...don't expect me to use it.
Who decides what gets on the blacklist?  How is that not a central authority?  All it takes is enough people to go along with the blacklist...and enough people claiming that certain btc need to be blacklisted to discredit the entire system.  The point is who decides...I still have seen very little proof that ANY btc need to be blacklisted....you do what you want...follow blockexplorer and you can make your own list.

You decide! You blacklist the address! You! Good lord. Did I not say individual voluntary blacklisting enough times.

People can present their evidence, you can choose.

Yes, you can follow block explorer now. But you can't enter addresses in the client that you want to block. You would have to check the address after a transaction and return the coins. And then your address would be linked with that address, which is what I'm trying to avoid in the first place. I don't want my coins mixed up with Hilter's coins. Get it?

Plus browsing the block chain is tedious for a human when it could be simple for a machine.

Holliday, I think you should just give up. It seems some people can't even read what you're typing or have severe comprehension problems.

You got that police report handy allinvain...otherwise I don't care about your plight any longer.
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June 19, 2011, 04:19:05 AM
 #495

You are suggesting that people ban certain coins/wallets based on things that cannot be proven, I understand its voluntary, as is participation in a decentralized currency...that is my point. Some people like the decentralization...some don't, if you want this tracking make it...don't expect me to use it.

Bullshit. You must be obtuse. I've said countless times that I would require real hard evidence before I block an address. I've said countless times that I would not block these 25,000 coins. It is possible to tie an address to a human, you know that right? If that human was a murderer, I would block the address.

Damn dude. Just wow. Can't be proven... LoL.

It's all good...build the app...I don't need it.  


Edit: Obtuse would be putting it nicely...paranoid asshole suits better.
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June 19, 2011, 04:28:53 AM
 #496

Say you blacklist some coins. We agree that you'll give me a car for 200BTC, I send them and you get alerted they are black, now you don't give the car? You return the coins? You turn them in to the "proper authority"?

Accepting bitcoin for payment and then not delivering when you get paid is theft.

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June 19, 2011, 04:31:40 AM
 #497

Blacklisting coins is just a bad idea all around.  I can see the spirit behind it, but unless you're refusing to accept coins straight from a perp, you're just going to hurt innocent people.

Keep a list, by all means, of stolen coins.  That way, we can maybe trace back and find out who committed the crime.  But coins are coins, I don't see any reason to block certain ones out and keep others.

allinvain
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June 19, 2011, 04:36:54 AM
 #498

I do, but it's not for you.


Swishercutter
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June 19, 2011, 04:38:37 AM
 #499

I do, but it's not for you.



Expect no sympathy with no proof...reminds me of the lady who supposedly had acid thrown in her face randomly last year...I could be wrong...I just don't believe you any more.
allinvain
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June 19, 2011, 04:46:19 AM
 #500

Who decides what gets on the blacklist?  How is that not a central authority?  All it takes is enough people to go along with the blacklist...and enough people claiming that certain btc need to be blacklisted to discredit the entire system.  The point is who decides...I still have seen very little proof that ANY btc need to be blacklisted....you do what you want...follow blockexplorer and you can make your own list.

You decide! You blacklist the address! You! Good lord. Did I not say individual voluntary blacklisting enough times.

People can present their evidence, you can choose.

Yes, you can follow block explorer now. But you can't enter addresses in the client that you want to block. You would have to check the address after a transaction and return the coins. And then your address would be linked with that address, which is what I'm trying to avoid in the first place. I don't want my coins mixed up with Hilter's coins. Get it?

Plus browsing the block chain is tedious for a human when it could be simple for a machine.

Holliday, I think you should just give up. It seems some people can't even read what you're typing or have severe comprehension problems.

I'm tenacious.

And by the way, I know I've mentioned a few times that I wouldn't block the address with your stolen bitcoins. I wish there were more evidence. I simply don't trust anyone these days. It's nothing personal against you. It really amazes me how lax you were with all those coins. I started questioning the security of the coins before I even had my first Bitcoin. Since then I've moved on to offline wallet creation on a sterile computer.

Anyway, I think some good will come out of your loss. I hope you don't give up on Bitcoin because of it.  

No, no worries. I am not taking it personal. You have every right to remain critical. The evidence will come in due time. Yes it amazed me too now how lax I was. Trust me you don't need to say it. I know it very well how big of a screw up it was on my part. I'm slowly starting to accept the loss. I don't know what will come out of it to be honest. As far as giving up on bitcoin, I don't know really. I still have a bit of hope left, that maybe just maybe I can recover at least a portion of my loss. We shall see.

Yes I can see you're tenacious, and that's a good virtue to have!

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