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Author Topic: I just got hacked - any help is welcome! (25,000 BTC stolen)  (Read 343426 times)
Anonymous
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June 21, 2011, 09:50:33 PM
 #541

If you really believe what you espouse you'd know that theft is the violation of property rights and the upholding of one's property rights and the non-violence initiation principle is the core of the libertarian political philosophy.

I certainly agree.


Changing multiple hands does not launder the immorality of the original transaction.


Of course not but another victim of fraud should not be subject to penalties. Only the thief and fraudsters should be liable. As far as the holder of the blood money is concerned, he was involved in a fair transaction. He exchanged his property in a fair exchange. He should not be punished for the vandalism of his labor. Again, only the fraudsters before him and the thief.
Unfortunately, "should not" and "will not" are two different phrases.  Sure, he shouldn't be punished.  But if he is found to have the stolen coins, he has to return them.  He can then go to the person he received said coins from, and demand either more coins or a reversal of the transaction.  If the person who sent him coins refuses, he could go after them with a lawsuit.

At least, this is the way I currently understand the current laws of most countries.

Well, it's bullshit. It only leaves more people hurt.
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allinvain
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June 21, 2011, 10:00:02 PM
 #542

If you really believe what you espouse you'd know that theft is the violation of property rights and the upholding of one's property rights and the non-violence initiation principle is the core of the libertarian political philosophy.

I certainly agree.


Changing multiple hands does not launder the immorality of the original transaction.


Of course not but another victim of fraud should not be subject to penalties. Only the thief and fraudsters should be liable. As far as the holder of the blood money is concerned, he was involved in a fair transaction. He exchanged his property in a fair exchange. He should not be punished for the vandalism of his labor. Again, only the fraudsters before him and the thief.

I know that I can't realistically expect to receive the stolen funds from people who've received them in exchange for fair value. I'm not forcing anyone to. It should be up to them. All I can do is provide the evidence, and they can make the decision.


allinvain
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June 21, 2011, 10:13:29 PM
 #543

If you really believe what you espouse you'd know that theft is the violation of property rights and the upholding of one's property rights and the non-violence initiation principle is the core of the libertarian political philosophy.

I certainly agree.


Changing multiple hands does not launder the immorality of the original transaction.


Of course not but another victim of fraud should not be subject to penalties. Only the thief and fraudsters should be liable. As far as the holder of the blood money is concerned, he was involved in a fair transaction. He exchanged his property in a fair exchange. He should not be punished for the vandalism of his labor. Again, only the fraudsters before him and the thief.
Unfortunately, "should not" and "will not" are two different phrases.  Sure, he shouldn't be punished.  But if he is found to have the stolen coins, he has to return them.  He can then go to the person he received said coins from, and demand either more coins or a reversal of the transaction.  If the person who sent him coins refuses, he could go after them with a lawsuit.

At least, this is the way I currently understand the current laws of most countries.

The only problem here is that you have to rely on the individual's own good morals since there is no way to attach some real identity behind a bitcoin address. This gives people more confidence to do the wrong thing and just say "screw you"...

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June 21, 2011, 10:16:12 PM
 #544

If you really believe what you espouse you'd know that theft is the violation of property rights and the upholding of one's property rights and the non-violence initiation principle is the core of the libertarian political philosophy.

I certainly agree.


Changing multiple hands does not launder the immorality of the original transaction.


Of course not but another victim of fraud should not be subject to penalties. Only the thief and fraudsters should be liable. As far as the holder of the blood money is concerned, he was involved in a fair transaction. He exchanged his property in a fair exchange. He should not be punished for the vandalism of his labor. Again, only the fraudsters before him and the thief.
Unfortunately, "should not" and "will not" are two different phrases.  Sure, he shouldn't be punished.  But if he is found to have the stolen coins, he has to return them.  He can then go to the person he received said coins from, and demand either more coins or a reversal of the transaction.  If the person who sent him coins refuses, he could go after them with a lawsuit.

At least, this is the way I currently understand the current laws of most countries.

The only problem here is that you have to rely on the individual's own good morals since there is no way to attach some real identity behind a bitcoin address. This gives people more confidence to do the wrong thing and just say "screw you"...
Lots of people have donation addresses, or other identifiers.  But for the most part, you're right.

You have every right to do what you're doing though, and for your sake, I think it's great you've set up a tracker for the coins.
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June 21, 2011, 10:56:39 PM
 #545

Of course not but another victim of fraud should not be subject to penalties. Only the thief and fraudsters should be liable. As far as the holder of the blood money is concerned, he was involved in a fair transaction. He exchanged his property in a fair exchange. He should not be punished for the vandalism of his labor. Again, only the fraudsters before him and the thief.

Spoken like someone who's never had any property stolen and then tried to recover it.  If people in the real world looking to adopt bitcoin as a medium of exchange are told they have to buy into this sort of ideological claptrap, BTC will be relegated to the dustbin of history faster than you can say "rational self-interest".

Ideologues are like priests...they're as likely to be molesting their congregants as they are to be offering them solutions to their real-world problems.

allinvain, I hope you recover your property.  If it's recovered solely by the non-violent actions and goodwill of moral individuals, great.  If it's recovered with the help of the government and/or Messrs. Smith & Wesson, well...I'm fine with that too.
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June 22, 2011, 03:25:34 AM
 #546

Of course not but another victim of fraud should not be subject to penalties. Only the thief and fraudsters should be liable. As far as the holder of the blood money is concerned, he was involved in a fair transaction. He exchanged his property in a fair exchange. He should not be punished for the vandalism of his labor. Again, only the fraudsters before him and the thief.

Spoken like someone who's never had any property stolen and then tried to recover it.  If people in the real world looking to adopt bitcoin as a medium of exchange are told they have to buy into this sort of ideological claptrap, BTC will be relegated to the dustbin of history faster than you can say "rational self-interest".

Ideologues are like priests...they're as likely to be molesting their congregants as they are to be offering them solutions to their real-world problems.

allinvain, I hope you recover your property.  If it's recovered solely by the non-violent actions and goodwill of moral individuals, great.  If it's recovered with the help of the government and/or Messrs. Smith & Wesson, well...I'm fine with that too.

Thanks  SMTB1963.

Yeah, we all gotta do what we gotta do. I don't think I can stoop to their level and engage in violent actions though. We must pity thieves, for they are cowards.



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June 22, 2011, 08:54:58 PM
 #547

first post updated with transaction tracking links...


brunoshady
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June 23, 2011, 12:31:52 AM
 #548

wow dude...


saw your history on brazilian news

http://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2011/06/usuarios-relatam-roubos-envolvendo-moeda-virtual-p2p-bitcoin.html




btw, sorry brow =/
allinvain
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June 23, 2011, 02:37:10 AM
 #549


Hmm yeah thanks bro :/.....

Saude...


Vince Torres
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June 23, 2011, 02:50:10 AM
 #550

I really don't understand how you could've handled this, this well. I mean you're the poster child to why bitcoins should not be used. Not only that you lost over 750k in assets at the peak of their value. If I were you I wouldn't even get up in the morning for at least a month. But with your calm resilience and poise you managed to post coherent and respectable replies to all that wished to ask. I sir applaud you.

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allinvain
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June 23, 2011, 02:58:55 AM
 #551

I really don't understand how you could've handled this, this well. I mean you're the poster child to why bitcoins should not be used. Not only that you lost over 750k in assets at the peak of their value. If I were you I wouldn't even get up in the morning for at least a month. But with your calm resilience and poise you managed to post coherent and respectable replies to all that wished to ask. I sir applaud you.

It's hard, trust me. But I am still thankful I  have a regular job, I still have a roof over my head, and food on the table. I am not 100% broke but this loss has taken a huge emotional toll on me and severely limited my financial possibilities.

Thanks for the kind words, you Sir are truly a gentleman.

I wish you the best of luck!


TraderTimm
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June 23, 2011, 03:00:34 AM
 #552

Also, if you would consider helping me with my 1,000 BTC loss I'd be most grateful.

We BTC losers have to stick together!

Just donate below,

Thanks!

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
allinvain
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June 23, 2011, 03:39:36 AM
 #553

Also, if you would consider helping me with my 1,000 BTC loss I'd be most grateful.

We BTC losers have to stick together!

Just donate below,

Thanks!


Schadenfreude....look it up.

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June 23, 2011, 03:51:14 AM
 #554

Dude, no - I am super serious. I understand the breadth of your loss. Now I know how you feel. If only some generous people could donate to my address below, I would find some peace.

1,000 BTC may not mean much to you, having lost so much more, but I can tell you I do nothing but think about those coins, rattling around some nasty netbook somewhere, scared and alone.

Please, while I know 25k bitcoins is a lot, consider looking deep into your soul and sending something to make up for my measly 1k loss.

I thank you in advance!

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
imperi
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June 23, 2011, 03:57:01 AM
 #555

Dude, no - I am super serious. I understand the breadth of your loss. Now I know how you feel. If only some generous people could donate to my address below, I would find some peace.

1,000 BTC may not mean much to you, having lost so much more, but I can tell you I do nothing but think about those coins, rattling around some nasty netbook somewhere, scared and alone.

Please, while I know 25k bitcoins is a lot, consider looking deep into your soul and sending something to make up for my measly 1k loss.

I thank you in advance!


Stop trolling. I know for a fact, from my side investigations, that you only lost 600 BTC.
TraderTimm
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June 23, 2011, 04:03:02 AM
 #556

Dude, no - I am super serious. I understand the breadth of your loss. Now I know how you feel. If only some generous people could donate to my address below, I would find some peace.

1,000 BTC may not mean much to you, having lost so much more, but I can tell you I do nothing but think about those coins, rattling around some nasty netbook somewhere, scared and alone.

Please, while I know 25k bitcoins is a lot, consider looking deep into your soul and sending something to make up for my measly 1k loss.

I thank you in advance!


Stop trolling. I know for a fact, from my side investigations, that you only lost 600 BTC.

Okay, I see where you are going with this. I know that allinvain has made people cynical with lack of proof, but there is no reason to accuse me of falsehood.

While I would be ecstatic to even recieve just 600 bitcoins, I am afraid that I cannot rest until the full one thousand have been recovered from wherever they have been spent.

Please don't hate, I am only seeking justice in the same manner as the 25k patron saint of non-security.

Donate below, it will do you a world of good!

Thanks!

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
allinvain
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June 23, 2011, 06:06:49 AM
 #557

where is the anti-troll spray when you need it...


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June 23, 2011, 05:29:21 PM
 #558

The only problem here is that you have to rely on the individual's own good morals since there is no way to attach some real identity behind a bitcoin address. This gives people more confidence to do the wrong thing and just say "screw you"...

Speaking of "individual's own good morals".  Has allinvain actually proved that the "stolen" coins were in fact his? 

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allinvain
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June 23, 2011, 07:42:34 PM
 #559

The only problem here is that you have to rely on the individual's own good morals since there is no way to attach some real identity behind a bitcoin address. This gives people more confidence to do the wrong thing and just say "screw you"...

Speaking of "individual's own good morals".  Has allinvain actually proved that the "stolen" coins were in fact his? 

Rob. P, please be patient..it will come. A trusted member of the community has my wallet.dat and a copy of my relevant docs (police report, etc). He told me he will make an official statement soon.

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June 23, 2011, 08:53:00 PM
 #560

Speaking of "individual's own good morals".  Has allinvain actually proved that the "stolen" coins were in fact his?

If your looking for proof "beyond a reasonable doubt", I guess the answer to your question would be would be no.  If you're looking for "preponderance of the evidence" proof, it seems to me that all of the speculative posts in this thread attempting to poke holes in allinvain's story are trumped by allinvain's own posting history on this forum.  I read a sampling of his posts, and I simply don't see this guy as a scammer - thus I see no reason not to take him at his word.

Now, I don't blame folks for being skeptical of allinvain's story.  I don't deny there's interesting issues raised by some questioning the validity of his story.  But I find it astonishing that so many would viciously attack someone who's done nothing more than ask for the help & expertise of this community to recover his property.  I suppose that's the nature of the internet these days.

Rob. P, please be patient..it will come. A trusted member of the community has my wallet.dat and a copy of my relevant docs (police report, etc). He told me he will make an official statement soon.

It's kinda sad you had to take time away from your recovery efforts to do this.  I hope it will quiet some of your detractors, but I won't be holding my breath on that.
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