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Author Topic: POTLUCKGAME.COM Multiplayer Bitcoin game LAUNCHED!!  (Read 6781 times)
potluck
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October 28, 2016, 06:18:57 AM
 #1

Hello All!
We are pleased to announce the launch of our game POTLUCKGAME.COM.

How to play?
Each game runs for 20 seconds. Place your bets in satoshis. At the end of each game, a random (provably fair) winner is chosen. Whoever wins the game, wins all the satoshis.

Is the game provably fair?
Absolutely! Here is how it works.

Every user will get 1000 satoshis FREE to try the game. We also have an excellent Affiliates program. You will earn a commission every time your friend wins a game! You can read more about this in our FAQ section.

Who is singSling?
SingSling is NOT Singapore Sling  Wink. It is the server bot that will play with you if you are the only participant in the game. singSling will always match your bets (so the game remains provably fair)

Support? Admins?
We are here to help. You can chat with us on our website. The admin users are singSling and crispr. Feel free to use 'CONTACT US' link in the footer for a specific query / question. Our support team will respond within 24 hours.

 Smiley Enjoy the Game!

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October 28, 2016, 06:59:05 AM
 #2

Just wanted to sign up and I see there is a chance to get 2000sat free, but I need to put a promo code. So what is the promo code to get the free 2000sat?

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October 28, 2016, 07:00:51 AM
 #3

rkbSluxee is the promo code. Every user gets one promo code that they can share with others. whenever their friends win, they win a commission life time!

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October 28, 2016, 08:10:20 AM
 #4

First off I would like to say that I like your site's clean, simple and responsive design.

I have some concerns about the provably fair system. Specifically, I believe that it is possible for a malicious game operator to always purchase the winning ticket, thereby cheating the players:

  • The game operator can join the game at the last possible moment and guarantee that no other players are able to join after that.
  • Given any game state, the game operator can calculate the winning ticket. Aside from the server seed and the client seed–which are predetermined–the total number of tickets determines the winning ticket (relevant code).
  • The game operator can find a number of tickets he has to purchase in order to receive the winning ticket and then purchase that number of tickets.
  • Consequently the game operator is guaranteed to win that game himself.
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October 28, 2016, 08:40:14 AM
 #5

First off I would like to say that I like your site's clean, simple and responsive design.

I have some concerns about the provably fair system. Specifically, I believe that it is possible for a malicious game operator to always purchase the winning ticket, thereby cheating the players:

  • The game operator can join the game at the last possible moment and guarantee that no other players are able to join after that.
  • Given any game state, the game operator can calculate the winning ticket. Aside from the server seed and the client seed–which are predetermined–the total number of tickets determines the winning ticket (relevant code).
  • The game operator can find a number of tickets he has to purchase in order to receive the winning ticket and then purchase that number of tickets.
  • Consequently the game operator is guaranteed to win that game himself.

Hey MartinL,

Thanks for your reply!

Here is how the provably fair system currently works. (we are open for any suggestions)

1) when you place a bet, you get the tickets range in response. (visible in my bets section) This is important so that server can't reshuffle the bets in order to win the game.

2) The server doesn't know the winning ticket before the 20 seconds (end of the game). As the total pot value is taken into the random number generator.

Code:
const rngSeed = createHMACHash(serverSeed, `${clientSeed}-${totalTickets}`);
const luckyFraction = isaacRandom(rngSeed);

3) if the operator places the last bet, his/her tickets will be last in the sequence (tickets distribution starts from 0 onwards). Also, no one can place the bet amount more than maximum bet. So it is extremely difficult to come up with the amount to make the last tickets win.

one way to make it even more difficult is to include the last bet amount into the equation. Something like this:
Code:
const rngSeed = createHMACHash(serverSeed, `${clientSeed}-${totalTickets}-${lastBetAmount}`);

Let me know what you think.


P.S. we are still a newbie on the forum. So our ability to reply to posts is limited. Sorry if you don't get an immediate reply to your questions.

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October 28, 2016, 08:53:55 AM
 #6

Hello All!
We are pleased to announce the launch of our game POTLUCKGAME.COM.

How to play?
Each game runs for 20 seconds. Place your bets in satoshis. At the end of each game, a random (provably fair) winner is chosen. Whoever wins the game, wins all the satoshis.

Is the game provably fair?
Absolutely! Here is how it works.

Every user will get 1000 satoshis FREE to try the game. We also have an excellent Affiliates program. You will earn a commission every time your friend wins a game! You can read more about this in our FAQ section.

Who is singSling?
SingSling is NOT Singapore Sling  Wink. It is the server bot that will play with you if you are the only participant in the game. singSling will always match your bets (so the game remains provably fair)

Support? Admins?
We are here to help. You can chat with us on our website. The admin users are singSling and crispr. Feel free to use 'CONTACT US' link in the footer for a specific query / question. Our support team will respond within 24 hours.

 Smiley Enjoy the Game!

nice idea but please check your FAQs regarding HE imo there is need of corrections text wise cause it could be misunderstood

good luck

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October 28, 2016, 08:59:13 AM
 #7

Thanks for your feedback JackpotRacer!
We will have a look at the FAQ section!. Smiley Feel free to try the game with 1000 free satoshis.

MartinL
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October 28, 2016, 10:26:38 AM
 #8

3) if the operator places the last bet, his/her tickets will be last in the sequence (tickets distribution starts from 0 onwards). Also, no one can place the bet amount more than maximum bet. So it is extremely difficult to come up with the amount to make the last tickets win.

Unfortunately that is not true: Even within the constraints of the maximum bet limit–which can be circumvented by using multiple accounts anyways–it is very easy to find the correct number of tickets to purchase.

This simple proof of concept finds all valid wager sizes with which the last player to join any given round would win. Even for games in which many tickets have already been sold finding a winning ticket is virtually guaranteed.

Your code samples were missing the createHMACHash function, so I had to assume how it works. Let me know if yours doesn't use a SHA256 and I'll update the PoC. I have also modified findWinningTicket to return the winning ticket number directly. Apart from that your code is unchanged.

one way to make it even more difficult is to include the last bet amount into the equation. Something like this:
Code:
const rngSeed = createHMACHash(serverSeed, `${clientSeed}-${totalTickets}-${lastBetAmount}`);

That would make the calculation slightly more complex but would not change the number of winning tickets one can expect to find.

For the game to be provably fair you essentially have to prove that the house cannot know the game result in time to cheat. One solution to that end is to use a key stretching function for the game result calculation, which would make it impossible to calculate whether a wager will win or not before the game ends. This is detrimental to user experience, though, as players would have to wait for at least the round duration to find out who won the game.
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October 28, 2016, 12:08:19 PM
 #9

What about if there is only one player? So your bet will be refund or it stay until someone place a new bet? And btw i only saw 3 people online on your site? Does this thing will really affect on your play? And how much is the max bet for each and the max payout?

And is there any fee after each bet done? May be for you guys because i saw that you saying about giving every pot to the winner here
potluck
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October 28, 2016, 02:28:53 PM
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3) if the operator places the last bet, his/her tickets will be last in the sequence (tickets distribution starts from 0 onwards). Also, no one can place the bet amount more than maximum bet. So it is extremely difficult to come up with the amount to make the last tickets win.

Unfortunately that is not true: Even within the constraints of the maximum bet limit–which can be circumvented by using multiple accounts anyways–it is very easy to find the correct number of tickets to purchase.

This simple proof of concept finds all valid wager sizes with which the last player to join any given round would win. Even for games in which many tickets have already been sold finding a winning ticket is virtually guaranteed.

Your code samples were missing the createHMACHash function, so I had to assume how it works. Let me know if yours doesn't use a SHA256 and I'll update the PoC. I have also modified findWinningTicket to return the winning ticket number directly. Apart from that your code is unchanged.

one way to make it even more difficult is to include the last bet amount into the equation. Something like this:
Code:
const rngSeed = createHMACHash(serverSeed, `${clientSeed}-${totalTickets}-${lastBetAmount}`);



That would make the calculation slightly more complex but would not change the number of winning tickets one can expect to find.

For the game to be provably fair you essentially have to prove that the house cannot know the game result in time to cheat. One solution to that end is to use a key stretching function for the game result calculation, which would make it impossible to calculate whether a wager will win or not before the game ends. This is detrimental to user experience, though, as players would have to wait for at least the round duration to find out who won the game.

Totally agree with you! and thanks a lot @MartinL for an excellent gist. Provably fair game and high-quality UX are our top priorities. So we will work to find a perfect provably fair solution. Meanwhile, if you find a solution and we use it, we would definitely reward you with some BTC! Stay tuned! we will post another message when we have one. Cheers!

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October 28, 2016, 02:36:52 PM
 #11

What about if there is only one player? So your bet will be refund or it stay until someone place a new bet? And btw i only saw 3 people online on your site? Does this thing will really affect on your play? And how much is the max bet for each and the max payout?

And is there any fee after each bet done? May be for you guys because i saw that you saying about giving every pot to the winner here
This is answerred in the OP:
Quote
It is the server bot that will play with you if you are the only participant in the game. singSling will always match your bets (so the game remains provably fair)

The website looks pretty good, but you might want to add a logo that you can use a favicon Wink

potluck
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October 28, 2016, 02:38:16 PM
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What about if there is only one player? So your bet will be refund or it stay until someone place a new bet? And btw i only saw 3 people online on your site? Does this thing will really affect on your play? And how much is the max bet for each and the max payout?

And is there any fee after each bet done? May be for you guys because i saw that you saying about giving every pot to the winner here

Hey Erza,
If there is only one player, then server bot (singSling) will play with you. In order to keep the game provably fair, singSling can't choose any bet amount. It has to match your bet. So if you have 3 bets (100 satoshis each) then singSling will place a bet of 300 satoshis.

Yes, the game launched today we are hoping that people like our game and have fun playing it. The maximum bet per round is 2500 satoshies and there is no limit to max payout. Potluck will never put a limit on max payout.

The house edge is just 1% or less (if the winner belongs to an affiliate program, hen the affiliate owner will get a cut in 1% commission)

Hope this answers your doubts. Cheers!

potluck
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October 28, 2016, 02:42:11 PM
 #13

What about if there is only one player? So your bet will be refund or it stay until someone place a new bet? And btw i only saw 3 people online on your site? Does this thing will really affect on your play? And how much is the max bet for each and the max payout?

And is there any fee after each bet done? May be for you guys because i saw that you saying about giving every pot to the winner here
This is answerred in the OP:
Quote
It is the server bot that will play with you if you are the only participant in the game. singSling will always match your bets (so the game remains provably fair)

The website looks pretty good, but you might want to add a logo that you can use a favicon Wink

Thanks eternalgloom!
yeah, we are going to design the logo Smiley currently, it's not on high priority. But it should happen in a couple of weeks!

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October 28, 2016, 03:22:52 PM
 #14

I think you need to improve the design a bit, it doesn't scale well at the moment.

http://i.imgur.com/sZE3T8Q.png

Also, no HSTS?
potluck
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October 28, 2016, 07:32:32 PM
Last edit: October 28, 2016, 10:51:18 PM by potluck
 #15

3) if the operator places the last bet, his/her tickets will be last in the sequence (tickets distribution starts from 0 onwards). Also, no one can place the bet amount more than maximum bet. So it is extremely difficult to come up with the amount to make the last tickets win.

Unfortunately that is not true: Even within the constraints of the maximum bet limit–which can be circumvented by using multiple accounts anyways–it is very easy to find the correct number of tickets to purchase.

This simple proof of concept finds all valid wager sizes with which the last player to join any given round would win. Even for games in which many tickets have already been sold finding a winning ticket is virtually guaranteed.

Your code samples were missing the createHMACHash function, so I had to assume how it works. Let me know if yours doesn't use a SHA256 and I'll update the PoC. I have also modified findWinningTicket to return the winning ticket number directly. Apart from that your code is unchanged.

one way to make it even more difficult is to include the last bet amount into the equation. Something like this:
Code:
const rngSeed = createHMACHash(serverSeed, `${clientSeed}-${totalTickets}-${lastBetAmount}`);



That would make the calculation slightly more complex but would not change the number of winning tickets one can expect to find.

For the game to be provably fair you essentially have to prove that the house cannot know the game result in time to cheat. One solution to that end is to use a key stretching function for the game result calculation, which would make it impossible to calculate whether a wager will win or not before the game ends. This is detrimental to user experience, though, as players would have to wait for at least the round duration to find out who won the game.

Totally agree with you! and thanks a lot @MartinL for an excellent gist. Provably fair game and high-quality UX are our top priorities. So we will work to find a perfect provably fair solution. Meanwhile, if you find a solution and we use it, we would definitely reward you with some BTC! Stay tuned! we will post another message when we have one. Cheers!

Hello All,
Here is an update for provably fair system.

Code:
// totalTicketsWithoutLastBetTickets = pot value as it was before last bet was placed.
const rngSeed = createHMACHash(serverSeed, `${clientSeed}-${totalTicketsWithoutLastBetTickets}`);

We see the following advantages:
  • Server can't predict totalTicketsWithoutLastBetTickets during the first 20 seconds when the game is active.
  • Server can't change totalTicketsWithoutLastBetTickets after the game is in 'pause bets' state.

So even if genius player / operator places the last bet hoping to win every time, the last bet will be excluded from the rngSeed calculation. So he/she can not influence the outcome.


potluck
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October 28, 2016, 07:41:20 PM
 #16

I think you need to improve the design a bit, it doesn't scale well at the moment.



Also, no HSTS?

Hey quintuple,
Thanks for the screenshot. We are working on the fix.
HSTS is enabled on the website. didn't it work for you?

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October 28, 2016, 08:45:35 PM
 #17

How's the traffic been so far?  Are there any peak hour statistics so we can figure out the most optimal time to participate?  Those would be some helpful numbers to the devoted gamblers out there since it's a multiplayer game....right?  That'd be sweet if you could include some running numbers for us!
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October 28, 2016, 10:35:51 PM
 #18

How's the traffic been so far?  Are there any peak hour statistics so we can figure out the most optimal time to participate?  Those would be some helpful numbers to the devoted gamblers out there since it's a multiplayer game....right?  That'd be sweet if you could include some running numbers for us!

Hey cjmoles,
Thanks for the reply. The highest active users count was 11 on day 1. One thing we have observed is that there is no enough room to try the game with 1000 satoshi signup bonus. We are planning to change this to 100bits. So that players can wager more, win more and also withdraw BTC. We will post a new message once these changes are live.

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October 28, 2016, 11:02:07 PM
 #19

I think you need to improve the design a bit, it doesn't scale well at the moment.



Also, no HSTS?

Hey quintuple,
Thanks for the screenshot. We are working on the fix.
HSTS is enabled on the website. didn't it work for you?
By HSTS you mean SLL protocol or HTTPS? No, it is not working for me either. I can't see icon indicating secure connection at all.
Since SSL protocol is not only showing on single machine I guess it is a problem with it on your side.
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October 28, 2016, 11:06:11 PM
 #20

Quote
By HSTS you mean SLL protocol or HTTPS? No, it is not working for me either. I can't see icon indicating secure connection at all.

That is odd. When we visit https://potluckgame.com we are seeing the green lock in chrome browser. We will test the config once again. Thanks for pointing this out.

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