Bitcoin Advocates , Do you Know Who Your Masters Are?

[kiklo]

Bitcoin Advocates that Believe BTC is Magic and have been ignoring that China Dominates Bitcoin for ~ year now.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-price-falls-8-as-chinese-government-plans-bitcoin-cap#

Bitcoin price has been on somewhat of a roller coaster ride over the past week. On Oct. 28, Bitcoin was trading at around $690 before taking off last Saturday, reaching $720 according to Bitcoin Average. Correspondingly on Oct. 31, Bitcoin fell below $700, only to rebound strongly yesterday, swelling to over $745.

Then the bottom fell out, as a free fall began, bringing Bitcoin price to the position it was at one week ago, losing 8% of its value.
What is the cause of these fluctuations?
China is Bitcoin’s epicenter and this leveling out of Bitcoin values may just be the beginning, as China has discovered this economic loophole and is beginning to plug this digital gap, potentially creating a market cap for Bitcoin speculators in the world’s number one Bitcoin market.

According to information obtained from ZeroHedge and Bloomberg Business,
Chinese officials are considering introducing policies, including restricting domestic Bitcoin exchanges from moving the cryptocurrency to platforms outside the nation and imposing quotas on the amount of Bitcoins that can be sent abroad. This has largely been done to counter the rampant Chinese Yuan devaluations that have plagued 2016.

Who knows the Chinese Word for Big Daddy?    

1st They Control the Mining
2nd Now they will Control the Price
Wonder what will be next?

Does China's Control of BTC bother you or Could you care less?

 

FYI:
So much for Decentralization.  

[Spoetnik]

I know they mine a lot but the quote you posted says a bunch of opinions.. not facts.
And explains little..

Lets see how fast this gets moved too LOL

[Snorek]

Meanwhile: https://news.bitcoin.com/chinese-govt-blockchain-conference/

On the topic - Reports about China's plans to control bitcoin capital are unconfirmed and remain unfounded rumors.
It is major problem with bitcoin community, every sign of negative news is causing great uproar and panic among investors.

Read this article: https://news.bitcoin.com/reports-china-bitcoin-exaggerated/

[kiklo]

I know they mine a lot but the quote you posted says a bunch of opinions.. not facts.
And explains little..

Lets see how fast this gets moved too LOL

Ok, let see if I can break it down for everyone.

Facts are they control the majority of the hash rate, over 51% ,
this means they determine its future course technically as they can block or agree to any updates.

By controlling the influx of Chinese Yuan into BTC ,
the Chinese Government can relax restrictions allowing more Yuan in to increase the Price,
Or
the Chinese Government can increase restrictions to Decrease the Price.
(Think of the Yuan as Water, and BTC as a Boat, by adding more water, they increase the height of the boat , by removing water , they decrease the height of the boat. )
(The Height is the Price.)

By restricting BTC transfer outside their Chinese Exchanges (which could include Hong Kong),
they can manipulate the supply & demand aspects of BTC in the rest of the world.

This gives them a massive control over BTC and its price.  

 

[kiklo]

Meanwhile: https://news.bitcoin.com/chinese-govt-blockchain-conference/

On the topic - Reports about China's plans to control bitcoin capital are unconfirmed and remain unfounded rumors.
It is major problem with bitcoin community, every sign of negative news is causing great uproar and panic among investors.

Read this article: https://news.bitcoin.com/reports-china-bitcoin-exaggerated/

Actually considering China just banned using credit or debit card to buy oversea insurance.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-31/chinas-unionpay-bans-buying-overseas-insurance-policies-latest-crackdown-capital-out

In the latest crackdown in illicit Chinese capital outflows, China's UnionPay banned on Saturday Chinese residents' use of credit and debit cards supported by its payments network to purchase capital investment type insurance products in Hong Kong, as authorities move to further stem capital flight by narrowing a popular gateway for shifting money abroad and prompted the latest move higher in Bitcoin as a capital flow alternative to traditional channels.

The logic of the policy they are enacting , would mean they have to control the outflow of BTC, otherwise it would be a loophole to get money out of China.
China is not and never has been a Free Will type of country in our Lifetimes, don't expect them to start now.  


 

[jbreher]

Well, let us see...

Your initial rant was hinged upon a now-debunked fake news report...

So far, we have no evidence that the Chinese government is messing with Bitcoin...

If any one country was able to amass the bulk of mining power, I should be concerned that it is not my country? You know - rather than, oh, I don't know -- the most populous country on the planet?

Bitcoin-user-not-affected-meme.png

What coin do you advocate as better? (This oughta be good)

[kiklo]

So we can put you in the could care less camp.  

If you have not bothered to look at BTC mining pools for the past year , far be it from me to educate someone who is against learning.

Claiming a news story may be false is nice propaganda, do you have a link by the original news organization retracting it?
Otherwise I will consider it valid.

If you can't tell what my favorite coin is , you have trouble with reading comprehension.  

But any coin, that is not dominated by a single country is better than one that is. (Part of the reason many of us want to leave Fiat behind.)
If you can't understand that well, then I imagine that you consider walking & chewing gum at the same time to be an achievement.  


 

FYI:
Funny that you run bitcoinunlimited  ,

The Bitcoin Unlimited (BU) project seeks to provide a voice to all stakeholders in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
Every node operator or miner can currently choose their own blocksize limit by modifying their client. Bitcoin Unlimited makes the process easier by providing a configurable option for the accepted and generated blocksize via a GUI menu. Bitcoin Unlimited further provides a user-configurable failsafe setting allowing you to accept a block larger than your maximum accepted blocksize if it reaches a certain number of blocks deep in the chain.

There is a 75% threshold before it will start creating blocks larger than Core.

And you don't seem to understand that China which dominates BTC over 51%, you will never reach your goal unless they accept it.  
Currently Denying by the way.
LOL, so China is your Direct Master because they control your crypto of choice and you want to pretend they are not.  

[kiklo]

Read this article: https://news.bitcoin.com/reports-china-bitcoin-exaggerated/

The above article is the one claiming the original article was rumor.
And it was posted by this guy Jamie Redman that lives in florida.

Would you trust him with your money?
Just Curious.  

 

FYI:  The original article on ZERO Hedge is by Tyler Durden, (Alias)  

1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.
2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.
3rd RULE: If someone says "stop" or goes limp, taps out the fight is over.
4th RULE: Only two guys to a fight.
5th RULE: One fight at a time.
6th RULE: No shirts, no shoes.
7th RULE: Fights will go on as long as they have to.
8th RULE: If this is your first night at FIGHT CLUB, you HAVE to fight.

[BTCwriter]

Ban or control of Bitcoin is not possible. This is sound stupid by the way but then it's just rumor for people to dump BTC as BTC is jumping so quick and so high. Shorts panic then spreading rumor?
The purpose of BTC is decentralized and it's not possible to control. One way is user simply move their Bitcoin from Chinese exchange then they can do anything or send anywere they want, any amount.

[kiklo]

Ban or control of Bitcoin is not possible. This is sound stupid by the way but then it's just rumor for people to dump BTC as BTC is jumping so quick and so high. Shorts panic then spreading rumor?
The purpose of BTC is decentralized and it's not possible to control. One way is user simply move their Bitcoin from Chinese exchange then they can do anything or send anywere they want, any amount.

In November 2013, following the Third Plenum of the 18th Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party, China announced the decision to relax the one-child policy. Under the new policy, families could have two children if one parent, rather than both parents, was an only child.

China controls how many kids you can have , and you don't think they can order a company that does business in china to not send BTC to unapproved addresses.  
Most people keep their BTC on exchanges. And Exchanges in China will do as they are told, unless they want a Tank in their Parking Lot.

They control over 51% of BTC mining, they own that coin.
Do you really want to even pretend it is decentralized, because really that battle was lost over a year ago.
It is centralized and there will be no updates except what China decides to BTC.

 

[BTCwriter]

You're trying to compare Bitcoin to baby is ridiculous.
First of all it's dumb trying to spread this kind of weak rumor and also the same to those people who are believed it.
I guessed people are still not realized Bitcoin is decentralized payment.

[kiklo]

You're trying to compare Bitcoin to baby is ridiculous.
First of all it's dumb trying to spread this kind of weak rumor and also the same to those people who are believed it.
I guessed people are still not realized Bitcoin is decentralized payment.

Just because you keep calling it decentralized, does not make it so.
Without Chinese mining approval , you can't make any changes that affect BTC,
Therefore it is controlled by the Chinese Mining Pools and CENTRALIZED .
Chinese Mining Pools are Controlled by the Chinese Gov.

 

FYI:
Comparing BTC to a BABY is ridiculous , because many people will fight to the death over their children.
And China still passed that law, and you think they will care more about BTC to fight those laws.
Your Priorities are mixed up , if you believe that.

[BTCwriter]

You're trying to compare Bitcoin to baby is ridiculous.
First of all it's dumb trying to spread this kind of weak rumor and also the same to those people who are believed it.
I guessed people are still not realized Bitcoin is decentralized payment.

Just because you keep calling it decentralized, does not make it so.
Without Chinese mining approval , you can't make any changes that affect BTC,
Therefore it is controlled by the Chinese Mining Pools and CENTRALIZED .
Chinese Mining Pools are Controlled by the Chinese Gov.

 

FYI:
Comparing BTC to a BABY is ridiculous , because many people will fight to the death over their children.
And China still passed that law, and you think they will care more about BTC to fight those laws.
Your Priorities are mixed up , if you believe that.

You need to understand baby is physical object and Bitcoin is digital. Chinese Mining Pools are controlled by Chinese Mining Pools company, not the government. You probably is blinded by your agenda anyway and would refused any reason fact. My reply end here so you could stick with your agenda.

[Spoetnik]

I don't see actual restrictions being made yet via the Chinese govt.
And what is stopping average people from sending coins from their wallet at home ?
Like who says a Chinese guy can not simply withdraw his BTC from a Chinese exchange..
then when they get to his home wallet send them off elsewhere out of country ?

And i agree about the concern with it being 50+% all Chinese
BUT !
So far this has not been much of a problem in real world scenarios.
Have the Chinese power holders actively denied say for example a change in Block size code with a fork yet ?

So far we have fear mongering and i watched this same shit since 2013.
Yeah.. we had "China Bitcoin" news going back then that was huge drama.
And look around.. it made no damn difference in anything.

China surpassed the USA in late 2013 with the worlds largest economy.
And few people even noticed.. for example i seen a news story in Canada passed on by the Canadian press recently that hinged entirely on the notion that the USA's economy is the largest.. but in reality it is not and has not been for a years.
China has the biggest !

And when it comes to BTC and China the inner racist in me is a bit concerned.. BUT !!!
Would we by crying foul if the USA was holding 51% hash power ? Or Russia ?
Was BTC intended to be a USA controlled thing ?
Further more if you all want to bitch about it then you need to do something.. get mining BTC  

So let me show you all how Bitcointalk is done (there is a reason why i am a Legend here Nub's)
And let me be the first to steer this conversation into the realm of ON-Topic territory..
Altcoins..

SO.. boys / girls.. profiteers, kidiots, Investards.. FUD'ers and "TROLLZ" ..ALTCOINS hmmmm ?
Well lets have a gander at which Altcoins are controlled by small groups etc shall we ?
Monero ?
NXT ?
Ethereum ?

Should i go on ?

You think 51% is bad ? I think most coins are worse LOL  
AND they were rigged by design to end up that way in the first place.
What happens when scammy cunts buy all their own coins and take a cut at launch ?
Ask V. Butters.
Every single fucking Altcoin is running a varied advantage to give the people who start it an "edge".
An advantage that was not used on Bitcoin.
BTC was launched more fairly then all Altcoins combined by a long shot.
And those early coins were heavily distributed by this point and Satoshi has shown no sign of dumping Like "Butters" has done already.

If Bitcoin was an ICO it would have never gotten as popular as it ended up being.
ICO's are nothing but rigged scams.. then you have varied schemes to gain an advantage such as Zcash or Steem or MemoryCoin or small percentage premines or closed / private launch miners on new algo's etc.. all these Altcoins are rigged to give the guys launching it a massive unfair advantage.
Yet where is the paranoia on that ?

All we here is yeah well.. i made 2.1 BTC profit off of <insert shitcoin name> from moron profiteers after BITCOIN. (which is valuable simply because of it's link to FIAT)

..and if it's linked to FIAT then guess what ? Regulations guys.. i have been telling you all for years.
People caw like crows that BTC can function on it's own independent from fiat and i say BULLSHIT !
So yeah.. ALL countries will eventually put in some type of reg's on BTC etc.

@kiklo
You may be right and they may indeed be a problem having the control power.
But i see it as nothing but speculation so far..
So far i don't see a Bitcoin Chinese Doomsday.

The Chinese will know if it is not used world wise as intended then it will be deemed a Chinese thing and probably loose a lot of value.. it has it's value because it's considered global.
If they put up walls all around BTC it would harm Bitcoin.
And it would devalue the coins the Chinese are working hard at mining.
Do they want that ?

Besides if Chinese govt officials locked down the flow of BTC out of China ?
I bet mining power in China would drop and a new country hashing majority would take old.
I bet it would be more distributed if that happens to.

I don't necessarily see the doomsday is a lock yet.
I get where you are coming from though Kiklo and i think your reasoning has some merit.
But lets look deep and carefully at it all before coming to such extreme conclusions.

[eaLiTy]

China controls how many kids you can have , and you don't think they can order a company that does business in china to not send BTC to unapproved addresses.  
Most people keep their BTC on exchanges. And Exchanges in China will do as they are told, unless they want a Tank in their Parking Lot.

They control over 51% of BTC mining, they own that coin.
Do you really want to even pretend it is decentralized, because really that battle was lost over a year ago.
It is centralized and there will be no updates except what China decides to BTC.
 

That is a well thought argument about china  ,but every government can decide what they can do to restrict bitcoin if they want to,since the technology is pretty new and it might take some time to implement some laws the freedom continues but i am sure these sort of restrictions might come at a later time and running an exchange might be done under the watchful eyes of the government.

[kiklo]

I don't see actual restrictions being made yet via the Chinese govt.
And what is stopping average people from sending coins from their wallet at home ?
Like who says a Chinese guy can not simply withdraw his BTC from a Chinese exchange..
then when they get to his home wallet send them off elsewhere out of country ?

As of this moment , No restrictions in place yet.
So anyone can send anywhere.
The article is warning the Chinese Gov Officials are looking at how to implement them.

And i agree about the concern with it being 50+% all Chinese
BUT !
So far this has not been much of a problem in real world scenarios.
Have the Chinese power holders actively denied say for example a change in Block size code with a fork yet ?

Yep,
https://cointelegraph.com/news/chinese-mining-pools-call-for-consensus-refuse-switch-to-bitcoin-xt
BTC would have 20MB blocks now, if China had not blocked it.

So far we have fear mongering and i watched this same shit since 2013.
Yeah.. we had "China Bitcoin" news going back then that was huge drama.
And look around.. it made no damn difference in anything.

China surpassed the USA in late 2013 with the worlds largest economy.
And few people even noticed.. for example i seen a news story in Canada passed on by the Canadian press recently that hinged entirely on the notion that the USA's economy is the largest.. but in reality it is not and has not been for a years.
China has the biggest !

And when it comes to BTC and China the inner racist in me is a bit concerned.. BUT !!!
Would we by crying foul if the USA was holding 51% hash power ? Or Russia ?
Was BTC intended to be a USA controlled thing ?
Further more if you all want to bitch about it then you need to do something.. get mining BTC  

What matters is that the BTC community constantly try to ignore the 51% problem with BTC.
It the Lie that is irritating, personally call BTC the Digital Yuan for all I care, but they could at least be truthful about it.

So let me show you all how Bitcointalk is done (there is a reason why i am a Legend here Nub's)
And let me be the first to steer this conversation into the realm of ON-Topic territory..
Altcoins..

SO.. boys / girls.. profiteers, kidiots, Investards.. FUD'ers and "TROLLZ" ..ALTCOINS hmmmm ?
Well lets have a gander at which Altcoins are controlled by small groups etc shall we ?
Monero ?
NXT ?
Ethereum ?

Should i go on ?

LOL, I personally care little for Monero , NXT , or Ethereum .

@kiklo
You may be right and they may indeed be a problem having the control power.
But i see it as nothing but speculation so far..
So far i don't see a Bitcoin Chinese Doomsday.

The Chinese will know if it is not used world wise as intended then it will be deemed a Chinese thing and probably loose a lot of value.. it has it's value because it's considered global.
If they put up walls all around BTC it would harm Bitcoin.
And it would devalue the coins the Chinese are working hard at mining.
Do they want that ?

Besides if Chinese govt officials locked down the flow of BTC out of China ?
I bet mining power in China would drop and a new country hashing majority would take old.
I bet it would be more distributed if that happens to.

I don't necessarily see the doomsday is a lock yet.
I get where you are coming from though Kiklo and i think your reasoning has some merit.
But lets look deep and carefully at it all before coming to such extreme conclusions.

Thanks Spoetnik,

You know it is funny they keep attacking me for saying China could manipulate the Price of BTC if they implement new restrictions on Chinese Exchanges.
But they are so afraid , the truth may cause BTC Price to Crash , the Fact is :
China could manipulate the price Higher as easy as lower.
The only thing that will be certain , it will be to their own personal agenda not Free Market Forces, and that is really the only point , I am trying to get across.

 

[cryptohunter]

Sadly I don't subscribe to the govs can't do anything about btc view.

If a few larger 1st world countries blanket banned BTC it would be crash like a rock.

Best case I hope they will just find a way to control it take their slice and let us have some of the crumbs left we earned for being early adopters.

If you think crypto is the end of banks and a huge power/wealth shift is coming I think you will be disappointed but could still end up with a little chunk of wealth you wouldn't have had if it was not for crypto.

 

[jbreher]

You know it is funny they keep attacking me

No, I don't attack you. I ridicule your infantile flights of fancy.

for saying China could manipulate the Price of BTC if they implement new restrictions on Chinese Exchanges.

'China' (as if it is some monolithic entity) may find a way to affect Bitcoin. As of yet, all China has done to it is host the largest exchanges, and supply the hash power that secures it.

I ridicule because you seem to think that some fictional character writes for ZeroHedge.

I ridicule because the ZeroHedge article that started your silly rant implies Bloomberg is the source of the news, but Bloomberg has not published any article claiming so.

I ridicule you for going 'chicken little'.

If China gets nefarious at some time in the future, that might be something to discuss. Until then, you sound like a frightened little girl.

[Zer0Sum]

I ridicule because you seem to think that some fictional character writes for ZeroHedge.

I ridicule because the ZeroHedge article that started your silly rant implies Bloomberg is the source of the news, but Bloomberg has not published any article claiming so.

ZeroHedge is very likely a sophisticated Kremlin troll site...
It's too good and too plugged in to be some random East European dudes...
And a hyper-anti-American "business" site... makes about as much sense as a white supremacist rap music site.

$10 billion is a rounding error for a major government...
All of whom are putting the finishing touches on digital legal tender (see UK and Canada).

The Bitcoin network is so dysfunctional and it's investors are so skittish...
That rejecting the possibility of a government black hat operation versus BTC is crazy.

Ya man...
China killed 50 million of it's own people in the 20th century... but touching Bitcoin crosses the line.

[kiklo]

You know it is funny they keep attacking me

No, I don't attack you. I ridicule your infantile flights of fancy.

for saying China could manipulate the Price of BTC if they implement new restrictions on Chinese Exchanges.

'China' (as if it is some monolithic entity) may find a way to affect Bitcoin. As of yet, all China has done to it is host the largest exchanges, and supply the hash power that secures it.

I ridicule because you seem to think that some fictional character writes for ZeroHedge.

I ridicule because the ZeroHedge article that started your silly rant implies Bloomberg is the source of the news, but Bloomberg has not published any article claiming so.

I ridicule you for going 'chicken little'.

If China gets nefarious at some time in the future, that might be something to discuss. Until then, you sound like a frightened little girl.

Hmm ,
I guess since ridicule is your weapon of choice,
I will respond in kind.  

I ridicule you for being China's Bitch.
I ridicule you for being the Greater Fool.
I ridicule you for being too stupid to realize that your BTCUnlimited will fail unless China agrees.
I ridicule you for ignoring the 51% attack security issue of a Compromised Coin.
I ridicule you for being that Guy standing there clueless like a Fool , when China does show you that you are their Bitch.  

 

[jbreher]

I ridicule you for being China's Bitch letting China make you rich.

OK then - guess we're done here.

Meanwhile, the entire market cap of your beloved ZEIT (that's what you're thinking is better than Bitcoin, right?) can scarcely buy your average house 'round these parts.

[kiklo]

I ridicule you for being China's Bitch letting China make you rich.

OK then - guess we're done here.

Meanwhile, the entire market cap of your beloved ZEIT (that's what you're thinking is better than Bitcoin, right?) can scarcely buy your average house 'round these parts.

LOL,  

Keep thinking they will make you rich, but their motives are different than that.
When you finally see the truth, recognize you were informed of it here.

Since you finally figured out my favorite coin,
let's compare

BTC , Nov 2013 , hit ~$1275 US Dollars Peak , so even at $700 , some are still down ~half  3 years later
Seems like a loser to me

ZEIT
Hit our low of ~$20,000 Marketcap in August 2014,
Now in Nov 2016, our Marketcap is between $220,000 & $500,000 Marketcap
You would have made 11X your investment even on the low side, or a MAX of 25X your investment on the high side.

Plus when someone sells their ZEIT , they are selling their future mining capacity away, unlike when the Chinese sell their BTC and still keep control of the network , because the value of their coin is in their ASICS, the value of ZEIT is in the Coin itself.

I'll stick with my 11X profits in 2 years of a truly decentralized coin and you can keep your ½ Losses in 3 years with your Centralized one.  

 

[jbreher]

Since you finally figured out my favorite coin,
let's compare

Yes, let's compare. Anyone who put $10,000 into bitcoin before 2013 now has bitcoin in value exceeding the entire market cap of your baby crap coin.

When you've amassed that much increase in value, you can come back to taunt me. I'll even congratulate you (as if).

Until that day, good day to you, sir!

[Spoetnik]

I don't see how China refused Bitcoin.
They refused to fork it off into a NEW COIN with new moderators etc.
BIG DIFFERENCE.

Google --> Bitcoin XT bitcointalk

For example..
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3hhbhs/looks_like_all_xt_post_will_be_moderated_from_now/

Looks like all XT post will be moderated from now on bitcointalk. (self.bitcoinxt)

submitted 1 year ago by LagaffeGaston

This is a qoute from badBear (bitcointalk admin)

The thread shouldn't have been hijacked in the first place, what a mess. The thread is mostly about XT now, and the only graphs posted are XT related. It would be a lot of work to split or delete all the XT posts. Splitting is not easy to do in SMF, especially with large threads, and many posts to be split. So that isn't an option. It could stay in speculation since the majority of the thread is relevant, but all XT chat from here on out to be moderated. Might be better to just lock the thread since it's so far off track at this point. /badbear

Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1155952.msg12173575#msg12173575

Right away i see mention of "graphics". EDIT = oops i am blind he said "graphs" 
Clearly this was not an attempt to modify the existing Bitcoin but to make a new version from the old.
Which yeah i see it got resistance all over Crypto.. i don't blame them.
I have no firm stance on how to address that issue though.

So i have to challenge the assertion that China has "refused" to make changes before.
Seems me to MOST people refused such as Theymos on Reddit.. not just the Chinese.

I also like guys comment earlier.. they are actually in fact securing the block chain etc
and they are getting the rewards for doing so.. if you want to challenge that dominance then go for it.

I made many good points that were ignored LOL
Such as ?
Well would we be bitching if Russia or the USA was dominating mining ?
This relates to the reputation of China.. yeah i get it (it's obviously not good)
Do i think they would like to regulate it ? YES ..just as much as the USA wants to.
So the rumor is they are trying ? well guess what ? All major countries are trying.

NOTE:
Canada was the first major country in 2013 to implement tax guidelines.
You have to claim your crypto currency earnings according to Revenue Canada law.

Then we have to think about well, can the major govts actually control it.
I think in away yes and in a way no.
They can in fact neuter it by being there causing problems where ever there is a link to FIAT.
If that has major disruption then yeah they can really hurt Bitcoin badly.
The value is *MOSTLY* because BTC can be if desired cashed out to FIAT.
FIAT can not be dumped any time soon so it makes perfect sense to have a need and desire to swap them back & forth.
The concept of having no FIAT links to Bitcoin is going to be silly bullshit for a long loooong time to come.

@kiklo
I am largely arguing with you here but you said earlier what the point to your topic is..
AND THAT I DO AGREE WITH !
No harm in putting it out there and looking at all angles.

And i was not asking which Altcoin you "like"   ..i think you know that  
I was pointing out how all the Altcoins are far worse for this type of threat etc.

Potentially yeah i think China could in fact do some bad damage to Bitcoin with their own regulations.
But do they really want to knowing it would likely harm BTC ?
Honestly if they were out to stamp out BTC in their own country i think that would have been obvious long ago.. after all BTC is roughly 7 years old now people.

I have no problem with this topic and we may have to revisit this matter if China gets out of hand.
But are we seeing credible news something bad is in the works ? ..I'm not so sure about that.

PS:
Check out the "scam" topic on Cointelegraph.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1670392.0
I don't see any of these news sites as legit..
Be extra cautious taking anything they say as concrete fact.

Bottom line is.. this is how Bitcoin works.
It is always going to be subjected to a 51% majority doing things regardless of whom.
So how do we address this core problem then ? I have no damn idea  

Disclaimer:
I have never tried to say i know a lot about Bitcoin.
I am just throwing in some random opinion on all this.

[kiklo]

Since you finally figured out my favorite coin,
let's compare

Yes, let's compare. Anyone who put $10,000 into bitcoin before 2013 now has bitcoin in value exceeding the entire market cap of your baby crap coin.

When you've amassed that much increase in value, you can come back to taunt me. I'll even congratulate you (as if).

Until that day, good day to you, sir!

LOL,

Since you whine about China making you rich , it is apparent you missed that early ride.
That boat has sailed before most even heard of BTC.
Enjoy your Ride on Bitantic.  

 

[Snorek]

Since you whine about China making you rich , it is apparent you missed that early ride.
That boat has sailed before most even heard of BTC.
Enjoy your Ride on Bitantic.  

 

You don't know the future. It is true that bitcoin raised from basically worthless piece of code to $1000 worth token during its first 4 years.
But do you honestly think current price is final? And from now we will be forever stuck with price range of $650-$750?

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/12/10/will-bitcoin-price-reach-1-million-us-dollars/

[kiklo]

I don't see how China refused Bitcoin.
They refused to fork it off into a NEW COIN with new moderators etc.
BIG DIFFERENCE.

Actually No difference, in what I said. I said they control BTC changes since they run over 51% mining, they blocked the XT for personal reasons.
The reason being their internet infrastructure could not support the higher block sizes and they would lose dominance.
They refused , to make sure they kept their dominance , which they have.
It was a decision made purely out of Self-motivation , not improvement to the coin's network which is why the underlying problem is worsening.
http://www.ibtimes.com/bitcoins-big-problem-transaction-delays-renew-blockchain-debate-2330143

So i have to challenge the assertion that China has "refused" to make changes before.
Seems me to MOST people refused such as Theymos on Reddit.. not just the Chinese.

Think back to that topic Theymos created a few weeks ago , discussing hybrid ways to mine BTC,
it was apparent he is thinking about how to remove Chinese dominance thru changes to the code with Proof of Stake added.
Disrupting a 51% dominance was obviously his motive to anyone paying attention.
  

I made many good points that were ignored LOL
Such as ?
Well would we be bitching if Russia or the USA was dominating mining ?
This relates to the reputation of China.. yeah i get it (it's obviously not good)
Do i think they would like to regulate it ? YES ..just as much as the USA wants to.
So the rumor is they are trying ? well guess what ? All major countries are trying.

That is a good point, and it would be a problem if it were Russia or the US or Europe.
One country controlling a coin completely is no different from Fiat.
However the reality is the country is China, it is still a problem.

NOTE:
Canada was the first major country in 2013 to implement tax guidelines.
You have to claim your crypto currency earnings according to Revenue Canada law.

@kiklo
I am largely arguing with you here but you said earlier what the point to your topic is..
AND THAT I DO AGREE WITH !
No harm in putting it out there and looking at all angles.

And i was not asking which Altcoin you "like"   ..i think you know that  
I was pointing out how all the Altcoins are far worse for this type of threat etc.

That is where our train of thought varies, only PoW coins can be completely controlled by 51% attacks.
Reason: The Miners selling their coins do not lose their % of control when they sell their coins.
Any Proof of Stake, or Hybrid PoS/PoW , this is not the case when you sell your coin you give up mining % , you do not keep the same control.
Which is why Theymos was looking at adding PoS to his design theory of BTC.

Potentially yeah i think China could in fact do some bad damage to Bitcoin with their own regulations.
But do they really want to knowing it would likely harm BTC ?
Honestly if they were out to stamp out BTC in their own country i think that would have been obvious long ago.. after all BTC is roughly 7 years old now people.

I have no problem with this topic and we may have to revisit this matter if China gets out of hand.
But are we seeing credible news something bad is in the works ? ..I'm not so sure about that.

That is a fair idea, wait until they actually commit the act.
However problem with it , is the longer people wait to make a decision the stronger China's Control of BTC becomes.
People should look at the issue and make a decision early on, and then make preparations for it.
Whether they chose to be a slave for China (for the meager scraps from their table) or whether they decide to chose another coin and fight to make it the successor to BTC, without the country controlled centralization.

Bottom line is.. this is how Bitcoin works.
It is always going to be subjected to a 51% majority doing things regardless of whom.
So how do we address this core problem then ? I have no damn idea  

When Ghash.io passed the 51% everyone was terrified.
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/184427-one-bitcoin-group-now-controls-51-of-total-mining-power-threatening-entire-currencys-safety
But now that the Country of China has done it , no one is concerned.  

Actually Proof of Stake has a protection system built in,
with ASICS I can keep the same mining % the entire time,
with PoS, the mining % is always in Flux since the act of staking makes those coin inert for a specific amount of time.  

 

[kiklo]

Since you whine about China making you rich , it is apparent you missed that early ride.
That boat has sailed before most even heard of BTC.
Enjoy your Ride on Bitantic.  

 

You don't know the future. It is true that bitcoin raised from basically worthless piece of code to $1000 worth token during its first 4 years.
But do you honestly think current price is final? And from now we will be forever stuck with price range of $650-$750?

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/12/10/will-bitcoin-price-reach-1-million-us-dollars/

I know China will manipulate the price to their advantage, just as I know Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
They may raise its price to even more extreme heights or they may bring it crashing down in other regions of the world to destroy what they consider to be an enemy's economy.
Art of War is always their underlying motive, to not recognize this , is to be manipulated by it.  
Study their history , little has changed.

 

[davis196]

Bitcoin Advocates that Believe BTC is Magic and have been ignoring that China Dominates Bitcoin for ~ year now.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-price-falls-8-as-chinese-government-plans-bitcoin-cap#

Bitcoin price has been on somewhat of a roller coaster ride over the past week. On Oct. 28, Bitcoin was trading at around $690 before taking off last Saturday, reaching $720 according to Bitcoin Average. Correspondingly on Oct. 31, Bitcoin fell below $700, only to rebound strongly yesterday, swelling to over $745.

Then the bottom fell out, as a free fall began, bringing Bitcoin price to the position it was at one week ago, losing 8% of its value.
What is the cause of these fluctuations?
China is Bitcoin’s epicenter and this leveling out of Bitcoin values may just be the beginning, as China has discovered this economic loophole and is beginning to plug this digital gap, potentially creating a market cap for Bitcoin speculators in the world’s number one Bitcoin market.

According to information obtained from ZeroHedge and Bloomberg Business,
Chinese officials are considering introducing policies, including restricting domestic Bitcoin exchanges from moving the cryptocurrency to platforms outside the nation and imposing quotas on the amount of Bitcoins that can be sent abroad. This has largely been done to counter the rampant Chinese Yuan devaluations that have plagued 2016.

Who knows the Chinese Word for Big Daddy?    

1st They Control the Mining
2nd Now they will Control the Price
Wonder what will be next?

Does China's Control of BTC bother you or Could you care less?

 

FYI:
So much for Decentralization.  

I`m not a bitcoin advocate and i don`t know who are the bitcoin "advocates".

I know that all the talking about decentralization is a lie and bitcoin can`t be 100% decentalized.

If btc price does up,i`m happy and i don`t care about the China control.

[qiwoman2]

I believe China may have some influence to a degree but not outright domination and control as many people all over the world are discovering bitcoin ad the more people use it all over the world the more it will evenly spread ut but of course just from the sheer numbers of those who own it in China and mine, it is relevant to say they own a big stash of it for certain that is.

[calkob]

Your statment that China controls bitcoin is just a load of crap,  and even if that was true bitcoin is open source software, go check the code, it works.   

[franky1]

more rumour mill crap.
if only the OP wasnt racist and actually done some investigation rather then opinion making he would realise something..

nodes and pools:
china only have 150 nodes. thus china doesnt control the blockchain..
if china done anything dodgy the other 5000 nodes of the world would orphan it. meaning no pay day for "china"

exchanges:
hardly anyone uses the chinese exchanges and most trades are bot trades
by highlighting chinese exchanges your actually making sheep follow china. thus making them appear to have more power by shouting they have power.

also the hashpower. sorry but china is a country. not a person. i guarantee if america had lots of pools the only debate we would see from the OP was that america was diverse and not one company but separate entities in different states. rather than the america is one entity that owns bitcoin.

its also worth noting the OP has not made other considerations such as american companies owning parts of the hashpower that the OP is classing as "chinese". or that the chinese pools actually have pool servers outside of china so that if any internet/IP bans happened within china it would still function. meaning that the "chinese" pools are not exactly reliant on china.

but hey, if its not the good old U.S of A, put on a racist hate and point your finger at them and blame them for why america is not a power house

[Kprawn]

You want to blame the Chinese for being clever enough to grab the biggest share of the hashing power? The West can take down these mines, if

they decide to use the resources at hand, but they would rather invest in bigger bombs and expensive weapons to fight "Oil" wars. There are tons

of resources in Silicon Valley.... but they want to develop worthless gadgets to sell to ignorant consumers with loads of debt. The Chinese exchanges

have no trading fees... but the exchanges in the West wants to concentrate on profits, so they charge people to trade in Bitcoin... so that they can

pay for all these worthless gadgets. 

[kiklo]

Your statment that China controls bitcoin is just a load of crap,  and even if that was true bitcoin is open source software, go check the code, it works.   

51% attack

Google it you might learn something. 

 

[kiklo]

more rumour mill crap.
if only the OP wasnt racist and actually done some investigation rather then opinion making he would realise something..

nodes and pools:
china only have 150 nodes. thus china doesnt control the blockchain..
if china done anything dodgy the other 5000 nodes of the world would orphan it. meaning no pay day for "china"

exchanges:
hardly anyone uses the chinese exchanges and most trades are bot trades
by highlighting chinese exchanges your actually making sheep follow china. thus making them appear to have more power by shouting they have power.

also the hashpower. sorry but china is a country. not a person. i guarantee if america had lots of pools the only debate we would see from the OP was that america was diverse and not one company but separate entities in different states. rather than the america is one entity that owns bitcoin.

its also worth noting the OP has not made other considerations such as american companies owning parts of the hashpower that the OP is classing as "chinese". or that the chinese pools actually have pool servers outside of china so that if any internet/IP bans happened within china it would still function. meaning that the "chinese" pools are not exactly reliant on china.

but hey, if its not the good old U.S of A, put on a racist hate and point your finger at them and blame them for why america is not a power house

Hey Asshat,

It would be a problem if it was the US too,
shove your racism up your butt.


 

[kiklo]

You want to blame the Chinese for being clever enough to grab the biggest share of the hashing power? The West can take down these mines, if

they decide to use the resources at hand, but they would rather invest in bigger bombs and expensive weapons to fight "Oil" wars. There are tons

of resources in Silicon Valley.... but they want to develop worthless gadgets to sell to ignorant consumers with loads of debt. The Chinese exchanges

have no trading fees... but the exchanges in the West wants to concentrate on profits, so they charge people to trade in Bitcoin... so that they can

pay for all these worthless gadgets.  

No , the Chinese are the only ones being smart,
it is all of the idiots in the other countries that are being stupid, by not creating enough mining power to keep China's control under 51%.

Those same idiots proclaim BTC is Decentralized and are lying when they do so.
Ignoring the 51% attack problem is like walking toward a cliff blindfolded.


 

[kiklo]

All of you BTC advocates, that think BTC is the Greatest and Satoshi is the only one with a Brain.

In his Bitcoin paper, Satoshi identified several issues, with the 51% attack being the greatest.

http://www.btcpedia.com/bitcoin-51-attack/

What Is Bitcoin 51% Attack, Should I Be Worried ?
Posted by Vinay Prashar • April 21, 2013 • Misc • 1 Comment

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Every cryptocurrency, which is related to mining is subject to a 51% attack. In Bitcoin, miners control the network, If a pool operator had 51% of the network, he could always have the “longest blockchain” and decide where all new bitcoins belong.  In effect, bitcoin will continue, but no one can transfer their bitcoins to other users. In order to maintain a perfectly working bitcoin currency, no one single entity should ever have control of 51%, or greater, of the total network hashing power

    If a miner gains 51% or more power, he is capable to:

    Reverse transactions that he sends while he’s in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain.
    Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations.
    Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks.
 

So what is the 51% attack? To understand that you have to understand how Bitcoin works. Essentially Bitcoin is a collection of nodes performing “virtual work”, the more work you do the higher your rating on the network. So what happens when malicious users get together and manage to do more “virtual work” than the “good people” ? Well that is the 51% attack, and it basically means you can wake up tomorrow with zero Bitcoins in your wallet. It means any business that accepts Bitcoins can get robbed and have all their goods taken with fake Bitcoins. It also means if they wanted, governments, large corporations or hackers can “shut down the network” by refusing to accept any new transactions. Complete network shutdown. Can’t do anything with your Bitcoins, neither can anyone else.