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Author Topic: Bitcoin Advocates , Do you Know Who Your Masters Are?  (Read 1956 times)
kiklo (OP)
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November 05, 2016, 02:48:58 AM
Last edit: November 06, 2016, 10:52:52 PM by kiklo
 #1

Bitcoin Advocates that Believe BTC is Magic and have been ignoring that China Dominates Bitcoin for ~ year now.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-price-falls-8-as-chinese-government-plans-bitcoin-cap#

Quote
Bitcoin price has been on somewhat of a roller coaster ride over the past week. On Oct. 28, Bitcoin was trading at around $690 before taking off last Saturday, reaching $720 according to Bitcoin Average. Correspondingly on Oct. 31, Bitcoin fell below $700, only to rebound strongly yesterday, swelling to over $745.

Then the bottom fell out, as a free fall began, bringing Bitcoin price to the position it was at one week ago, losing 8% of its value.
What is the cause of these fluctuations?
China is Bitcoin’s epicenter and this leveling out of Bitcoin values may just be the beginning, as China has discovered this economic loophole and is beginning to plug this digital gap, potentially creating a market cap for Bitcoin speculators in the world’s number one Bitcoin market.

According to information obtained from ZeroHedge and Bloomberg Business,
Chinese officials are considering introducing policies, including restricting domestic Bitcoin exchanges from moving the cryptocurrency to platforms outside the nation and imposing quotas on the amount of Bitcoins that can be sent abroad. This has largely been done to counter the rampant Chinese Yuan devaluations that have plagued 2016.

Who knows the Chinese Word for Big Daddy?    Cheesy

1st They Control the Mining
2nd Now they will Control the Price
Wonder what will be next?

Does China's Control of BTC bother you or Could you care less?

 Cool

FYI:
So much for Decentralization.  Tongue
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November 05, 2016, 02:58:46 AM
 #2

I know they mine a lot but the quote you posted says a bunch of opinions.. not facts.
And explains little..

Lets see how fast this gets moved too LOL

FUD first & ask questions later™
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November 05, 2016, 03:01:33 AM
 #3

Meanwhile: https://news.bitcoin.com/chinese-govt-blockchain-conference/

On the topic - Reports about China's plans to control bitcoin capital are unconfirmed and remain unfounded rumors.
It is major problem with bitcoin community, every sign of negative news is causing great uproar and panic among investors.

Read this article: https://news.bitcoin.com/reports-china-bitcoin-exaggerated/
kiklo (OP)
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November 05, 2016, 03:14:24 AM
 #4

I know they mine a lot but the quote you posted says a bunch of opinions.. not facts.
And explains little..

Lets see how fast this gets moved too LOL

Ok, let see if I can break it down for everyone.

Facts are they control the majority of the hash rate, over 51% ,
this means they determine its future course technically as they can block or agree to any updates.

By controlling the influx of Chinese Yuan into BTC ,
the Chinese Government can relax restrictions allowing more Yuan in to increase the Price,
Or
the Chinese Government can increase restrictions to Decrease the Price.
(Think of the Yuan as Water, and BTC as a Boat, by adding more water, they increase the height of the boat , by removing water , they decrease the height of the boat. )
(The Height is the Price.)


By restricting BTC transfer outside their Chinese Exchanges (which could include Hong Kong),
they can manipulate the supply & demand aspects of BTC in the rest of the world.

This gives them a massive control over BTC and its price.  Wink

 Cool
kiklo (OP)
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November 05, 2016, 03:25:32 AM
 #5

Meanwhile: https://news.bitcoin.com/chinese-govt-blockchain-conference/

On the topic - Reports about China's plans to control bitcoin capital are unconfirmed and remain unfounded rumors.
It is major problem with bitcoin community, every sign of negative news is causing great uproar and panic among investors.

Read this article: https://news.bitcoin.com/reports-china-bitcoin-exaggerated/

Actually considering China just banned using credit or debit card to buy oversea insurance.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-31/chinas-unionpay-bans-buying-overseas-insurance-policies-latest-crackdown-capital-out
Quote
In the latest crackdown in illicit Chinese capital outflows, China's UnionPay banned on Saturday Chinese residents' use of credit and debit cards supported by its payments network to purchase capital investment type insurance products in Hong Kong, as authorities move to further stem capital flight by narrowing a popular gateway for shifting money abroad and prompted the latest move higher in Bitcoin as a capital flow alternative to traditional channels.

The logic of the policy they are enacting , would mean they have to control the outflow of BTC, otherwise it would be a loophole to get money out of China.
China is not and never has been a Free Will type of country in our Lifetimes, don't expect them to start now.   Tongue


 Cool
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November 05, 2016, 06:33:30 AM
 #6

Well, let us see...

Your initial rant was hinged upon a now-debunked fake news report...

So far, we have no evidence that the Chinese government is messing with Bitcoin...

If any one country was able to amass the bulk of mining power, I should be concerned that it is not my country? You know - rather than, oh, I don't know -- the most populous country on the planet?

Bitcoin-user-not-affected-meme.png

What coin do you advocate as better? (This oughta be good)

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
kiklo (OP)
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November 05, 2016, 07:12:10 AM
Last edit: November 05, 2016, 08:09:01 AM by kiklo
 #7

So we can put you in the could care less camp.  Cheesy

If you have not bothered to look at BTC mining pools for the past year , far be it from me to educate someone who is against learning.

Claiming a news story may be false is nice propaganda, do you have a link by the original news organization retracting it?
Otherwise I will consider it valid.

If you can't tell what my favorite coin is , you have trouble with reading comprehension.  Cheesy

But any coin, that is not dominated by a single country is better than one that is. (Part of the reason many of us want to leave Fiat behind.)
If you can't understand that well, then I imagine that you consider walking & chewing gum at the same time to be an achievement.  Wink


 Cool

FYI:
Funny that you run bitcoinunlimited  ,
Quote
The Bitcoin Unlimited (BU) project seeks to provide a voice to all stakeholders in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
Every node operator or miner can currently choose their own blocksize limit by modifying their client. Bitcoin Unlimited makes the process easier by providing a configurable option for the accepted and generated blocksize via a GUI menu. Bitcoin Unlimited further provides a user-configurable failsafe setting allowing you to accept a block larger than your maximum accepted blocksize if it reaches a certain number of blocks deep in the chain.
Quote
There is a 75% threshold before it will start creating blocks larger than Core.
And you don't seem to understand that China which dominates BTC over 51%, you will never reach your goal unless they accept it.  
Currently Denying by the way.
LOL, so China is your Direct Master because they control your crypto of choice and you want to pretend they are not.  Cheesy
kiklo (OP)
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November 05, 2016, 07:44:19 AM
Last edit: November 05, 2016, 10:34:29 PM by kiklo
 #8


The above article is the one claiming the original article was rumor.
And it was posted by this guy Jamie Redman that lives in florida.

Would you trust him with your money?
Just Curious.  Cheesy

 Cool

FYI:  The original article on ZERO Hedge is by Tyler Durden, (Alias)   Cheesy

1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.
2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.
3rd RULE: If someone says "stop" or goes limp, taps out the fight is over.
4th RULE: Only two guys to a fight.
5th RULE: One fight at a time.
6th RULE: No shirts, no shoes.
7th RULE: Fights will go on as long as they have to.
8th RULE: If this is your first night at FIGHT CLUB, you HAVE to fight.
BTCwriter
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November 05, 2016, 08:07:35 AM
 #9

Ban or control of Bitcoin is not possible. This is sound stupid by the way but then it's just rumor for people to dump BTC as BTC is jumping so quick and so high. Shorts panic then spreading rumor?
The purpose of BTC is decentralized and it's not possible to control. One way is user simply move their Bitcoin from Chinese exchange then they can do anything or send anywere they want, any amount.
kiklo (OP)
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November 05, 2016, 08:19:01 AM
Last edit: November 05, 2016, 08:31:55 AM by kiklo
 #10

Ban or control of Bitcoin is not possible. This is sound stupid by the way but then it's just rumor for people to dump BTC as BTC is jumping so quick and so high. Shorts panic then spreading rumor?
The purpose of BTC is decentralized and it's not possible to control. One way is user simply move their Bitcoin from Chinese exchange then they can do anything or send anywere they want, any amount.

Quote
In November 2013, following the Third Plenum of the 18th Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party, China announced the decision to relax the one-child policy. Under the new policy, families could have two children if one parent, rather than both parents, was an only child.

China controls how many kids you can have , and you don't think they can order a company that does business in china to not send BTC to unapproved addresses.  Cheesy
Most people keep their BTC on exchanges. And Exchanges in China will do as they are told, unless they want a Tank in their Parking Lot. Tongue

They control over 51% of BTC mining, they own that coin.
Do you really want to even pretend it is decentralized, because really that battle was lost over a year ago.
It is centralized and there will be no updates except what China decides to BTC.

 Cool
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November 05, 2016, 08:36:37 AM
 #11

You're trying to compare Bitcoin to baby is ridiculous.
First of all it's dumb trying to spread this kind of weak rumor and also the same to those people who are believed it.
I guessed people are still not realized Bitcoin is decentralized payment.
kiklo (OP)
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November 05, 2016, 08:50:24 AM
 #12

You're trying to compare Bitcoin to baby is ridiculous.
First of all it's dumb trying to spread this kind of weak rumor and also the same to those people who are believed it.
I guessed people are still not realized Bitcoin is decentralized payment.

Just because you keep calling it decentralized, does not make it so.
Without Chinese mining approval , you can't make any changes that affect BTC,
Therefore it is controlled by the Chinese Mining Pools and CENTRALIZED .
Chinese Mining Pools are Controlled by the Chinese Gov.

 Cool

FYI:
Comparing BTC to a BABY is ridiculous , because many people will fight to the death over their children.
And China still passed that law, and you think they will care more about BTC to fight those laws.
Your Priorities are mixed up , if you believe that.
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November 05, 2016, 09:00:43 AM
Last edit: November 05, 2016, 09:42:11 AM by BTCwriter
 #13

You're trying to compare Bitcoin to baby is ridiculous.
First of all it's dumb trying to spread this kind of weak rumor and also the same to those people who are believed it.
I guessed people are still not realized Bitcoin is decentralized payment.

Just because you keep calling it decentralized, does not make it so.
Without Chinese mining approval , you can't make any changes that affect BTC,
Therefore it is controlled by the Chinese Mining Pools and CENTRALIZED .
Chinese Mining Pools are Controlled by the Chinese Gov.

 Cool

FYI:
Comparing BTC to a BABY is ridiculous , because many people will fight to the death over their children.
And China still passed that law, and you think they will care more about BTC to fight those laws.
Your Priorities are mixed up , if you believe that.

You need to understand baby is physical object and Bitcoin is digital. Chinese Mining Pools are controlled by Chinese Mining Pools company, not the government. You probably is blinded by your agenda anyway and would refused any reason fact. My reply end here so you could stick with your agenda.
Spoetnik
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November 05, 2016, 09:05:28 AM
 #14

I don't see actual restrictions being made yet via the Chinese govt.
And what is stopping average people from sending coins from their wallet at home ?
Like who says a Chinese guy can not simply withdraw his BTC from a Chinese exchange..
then when they get to his home wallet send them off elsewhere out of country ?

And i agree about the concern with it being 50+% all Chinese
BUT !
So far this has not been much of a problem in real world scenarios.
Have the Chinese power holders actively denied say for example a change in Block size code with a fork yet ?

So far we have fear mongering and i watched this same shit since 2013.
Yeah.. we had "China Bitcoin" news going back then that was huge drama.
And look around.. it made no damn difference in anything.

China surpassed the USA in late 2013 with the worlds largest economy.
And few people even noticed.. for example i seen a news story in Canada passed on by the Canadian press recently that hinged entirely on the notion that the USA's economy is the largest.. but in reality it is not and has not been for a years.
China has the biggest !

And when it comes to BTC and China the inner racist in me is a bit concerned.. BUT !!!
Would we by crying foul if the USA was holding 51% hash power ? Or Russia ?
Was BTC intended to be a USA controlled thing ?
Further more if you all want to bitch about it then you need to do something.. get mining BTC  Cheesy

So let me show you all how Bitcointalk is done (there is a reason why i am a Legend here Nub's)
And let me be the first to steer this conversation into the realm of ON-Topic territory..
Altcoins..

SO.. boys / girls.. profiteers, kidiots, Investards.. FUD'ers and "TROLLZ" ..ALTCOINS hmmmm ?
Well lets have a gander at which Altcoins are controlled by small groups etc shall we ?
Monero ?
NXT ?
Ethereum ?

Should i go on ?

You think 51% is bad ? I think most coins are worse LOL  Cheesy
AND they were rigged by design to end up that way in the first place.
What happens when scammy cunts buy all their own coins and take a cut at launch ?
Ask V. Butters.
Every single fucking Altcoin is running a varied advantage to give the people who start it an "edge".
An advantage that was not used on Bitcoin.
BTC was launched more fairly then all Altcoins combined by a long shot.
And those early coins were heavily distributed by this point and Satoshi has shown no sign of dumping Like "Butters" has done already.

If Bitcoin was an ICO it would have never gotten as popular as it ended up being.
ICO's are nothing but rigged scams.. then you have varied schemes to gain an advantage such as Zcash or Steem or MemoryCoin or small percentage premines or closed / private launch miners on new algo's etc.. all these Altcoins are rigged to give the guys launching it a massive unfair advantage.
Yet where is the paranoia on that ?

All we here is yeah well.. i made 2.1 BTC profit off of <insert shitcoin name> from moron profiteers after BITCOIN. (which is valuable simply because of it's link to FIAT)

..and if it's linked to FIAT then guess what ? Regulations guys.. i have been telling you all for years.
People caw like crows that BTC can function on it's own independent from fiat and i say BULLSHIT !
So yeah.. ALL countries will eventually put in some type of reg's on BTC etc.

@kiklo
You may be right and they may indeed be a problem having the control power.
But i see it as nothing but speculation so far..
So far i don't see a Bitcoin Chinese Doomsday.

The Chinese will know if it is not used world wise as intended then it will be deemed a Chinese thing and probably loose a lot of value.. it has it's value because it's considered global.
If they put up walls all around BTC it would harm Bitcoin.
And it would devalue the coins the Chinese are working hard at mining.
Do they want that ?

Besides if Chinese govt officials locked down the flow of BTC out of China ?
I bet mining power in China would drop and a new country hashing majority would take old.
I bet it would be more distributed if that happens to.

I don't necessarily see the doomsday is a lock yet.
I get where you are coming from though Kiklo and i think your reasoning has some merit.
But lets look deep and carefully at it all before coming to such extreme conclusions.

FUD first & ask questions later™
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November 05, 2016, 09:57:31 AM
 #15

China controls how many kids you can have , and you don't think they can order a company that does business in china to not send BTC to unapproved addresses.  Cheesy
Most people keep their BTC on exchanges. And Exchanges in China will do as they are told, unless they want a Tank in their Parking Lot. Tongue

They control over 51% of BTC mining, they own that coin.
Do you really want to even pretend it is decentralized, because really that battle was lost over a year ago.
It is centralized and there will be no updates except what China decides to BTC.
 Cool
That is a well thought argument about china  Grin,but every government can decide what they can do to restrict bitcoin if they want to,since the technology is pretty new and it might take some time to implement some laws the freedom continues but i am sure these sort of restrictions might come at a later time and running an exchange might be done under the watchful eyes of the government.
kiklo (OP)
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November 05, 2016, 10:01:24 AM
 #16

I don't see actual restrictions being made yet via the Chinese govt.
And what is stopping average people from sending coins from their wallet at home ?
Like who says a Chinese guy can not simply withdraw his BTC from a Chinese exchange..
then when they get to his home wallet send them off elsewhere out of country ?

As of this moment , No restrictions in place yet.
So anyone can send anywhere.
The article is warning the Chinese Gov Officials are looking at how to implement them.


And i agree about the concern with it being 50+% all Chinese
BUT !
So far this has not been much of a problem in real world scenarios.
Have the Chinese power holders actively denied say for example a change in Block size code with a fork yet ?

Yep,
https://cointelegraph.com/news/chinese-mining-pools-call-for-consensus-refuse-switch-to-bitcoin-xt
BTC would have 20MB blocks now, if China had not blocked it.

So far we have fear mongering and i watched this same shit since 2013.
Yeah.. we had "China Bitcoin" news going back then that was huge drama.
And look around.. it made no damn difference in anything.

China surpassed the USA in late 2013 with the worlds largest economy.
And few people even noticed.. for example i seen a news story in Canada passed on by the Canadian press recently that hinged entirely on the notion that the USA's economy is the largest.. but in reality it is not and has not been for a years.
China has the biggest !

And when it comes to BTC and China the inner racist in me is a bit concerned.. BUT !!!
Would we by crying foul if the USA was holding 51% hash power ? Or Russia ?
Was BTC intended to be a USA controlled thing ?
Further more if you all want to bitch about it then you need to do something.. get mining BTC  Cheesy

What matters is that the BTC community constantly try to ignore the 51% problem with BTC.
It the Lie that is irritating, personally call BTC the Digital Yuan for all I care, but they could at least be truthful about it.


So let me show you all how Bitcointalk is done (there is a reason why i am a Legend here Nub's)
And let me be the first to steer this conversation into the realm of ON-Topic territory..
Altcoins..

SO.. boys / girls.. profiteers, kidiots, Investards.. FUD'ers and "TROLLZ" ..ALTCOINS hmmmm ?
Well lets have a gander at which Altcoins are controlled by small groups etc shall we ?
Monero ?
NXT ?
Ethereum ?

Should i go on ?

LOL, I personally care little for Monero , NXT , or Ethereum .



@kiklo
You may be right and they may indeed be a problem having the control power.
But i see it as nothing but speculation so far..
So far i don't see a Bitcoin Chinese Doomsday.

The Chinese will know if it is not used world wise as intended then it will be deemed a Chinese thing and probably loose a lot of value.. it has it's value because it's considered global.
If they put up walls all around BTC it would harm Bitcoin.
And it would devalue the coins the Chinese are working hard at mining.
Do they want that ?

Besides if Chinese govt officials locked down the flow of BTC out of China ?
I bet mining power in China would drop and a new country hashing majority would take old.
I bet it would be more distributed if that happens to.

I don't necessarily see the doomsday is a lock yet.
I get where you are coming from though Kiklo and i think your reasoning has some merit.
But lets look deep and carefully at it all before coming to such extreme conclusions.

Thanks Spoetnik,

You know it is funny they keep attacking me for saying China could manipulate the Price of BTC if they implement new restrictions on Chinese Exchanges.
But they are so afraid , the truth may cause BTC Price to Crash , the Fact is :
China could manipulate the price Higher as easy as lower.
The only thing that will be certain , it will be to their own personal agenda not Free Market Forces, and that is really the only point , I am trying to get across.

 Cool
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November 05, 2016, 10:51:41 AM
 #17

Sadly I don't subscribe to the govs can't do anything about btc view.

If a few larger 1st world countries blanket banned BTC it would be crash like a rock.

Best case I hope they will just find a way to control it take their slice and let us have some of the crumbs left we earned for being early adopters.

If you think crypto is the end of banks and a huge power/wealth shift is coming I think you will be disappointed but could still end up with a little chunk of wealth you wouldn't have had if it was not for crypto.

 




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November 05, 2016, 07:22:49 PM
 #18

You know it is funny they keep attacking me

No, I don't attack you. I ridicule your infantile flights of fancy.

Quote
for saying China could manipulate the Price of BTC if they implement new restrictions on Chinese Exchanges.

'China' (as if it is some monolithic entity) may find a way to affect Bitcoin. As of yet, all China has done to it is host the largest exchanges, and supply the hash power that secures it.

I ridicule because you seem to think that some fictional character writes for ZeroHedge.

I ridicule because the ZeroHedge article that started your silly rant implies Bloomberg is the source of the news, but Bloomberg has not published any article claiming so.

I ridicule you for going 'chicken little'.

If China gets nefarious at some time in the future, that might be something to discuss. Until then, you sound like a frightened little girl.

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November 05, 2016, 08:06:47 PM
 #19

I ridicule because you seem to think that some fictional character writes for ZeroHedge.

I ridicule because the ZeroHedge article that started your silly rant implies Bloomberg is the source of the news, but Bloomberg has not published any article claiming so.

ZeroHedge is very likely a sophisticated Kremlin troll site...
It's too good and too plugged in to be some random East European dudes...
And a hyper-anti-American "business" site... makes about as much sense as a white supremacist rap music site.

$10 billion is a rounding error for a major government...
All of whom are putting the finishing touches on digital legal tender (see UK and Canada).

The Bitcoin network is so dysfunctional and it's investors are so skittish...
That rejecting the possibility of a government black hat operation versus BTC is crazy.

Ya man...
China killed 50 million of it's own people in the 20th century... but touching Bitcoin crosses the line.
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November 05, 2016, 09:49:30 PM
Last edit: November 05, 2016, 10:07:29 PM by kiklo
 #20

You know it is funny they keep attacking me

No, I don't attack you. I ridicule your infantile flights of fancy.

Quote
for saying China could manipulate the Price of BTC if they implement new restrictions on Chinese Exchanges.

'China' (as if it is some monolithic entity) may find a way to affect Bitcoin. As of yet, all China has done to it is host the largest exchanges, and supply the hash power that secures it.

I ridicule because you seem to think that some fictional character writes for ZeroHedge.

I ridicule because the ZeroHedge article that started your silly rant implies Bloomberg is the source of the news, but Bloomberg has not published any article claiming so.

I ridicule you for going 'chicken little'.

If China gets nefarious at some time in the future, that might be something to discuss. Until then, you sound like a frightened little girl.

Hmm ,
I guess since ridicule is your weapon of choice,
I will respond in kind.  Wink

I ridicule you for being China's Bitch.
I ridicule you for being the Greater Fool.
I ridicule you for being too stupid to realize that your BTCUnlimited will fail unless China agrees.
I ridicule you for ignoring the 51% attack security issue of a Compromised Coin.
I ridicule you for being that Guy standing there clueless like a Fool , when China does show you that you are their Bitch.   Cheesy

 Cool
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