Zcoin - working implementation of the Zerocoin protocol (vs Zcash and others)

[traumschiff]

So, I actually stumbled upon Zcoin (XZC)  a few weeks ago. It is the first working implementation of the Zerocoin protocol, which has been talked about a lot in several academic journals regarding cryptography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zerocoin).

I was pretty hyped for the Zcash launch and noticed that Zcoin was launched prior to Zcash (few weeks), first I thought it simply wants to ride out the Zcash hype, but after reading some posts about it and checking a direct comparison (http://blog.zcoin.tech/zcoin-and-zcash/) I found this project to be the biggest competitor to Zcash in terms of privacy tech that there is.

It's obvious that one can never trully achieve complete anonymity (something close to 99% is enough), but these 2 projects come way closer to the acceptable range than project that use some form of mixing, coinjoin, ringsigs, decentralized coinjoin, supernodes etc.

I was a pretty early investor and miner in DASH, XC, VCASH and bought enough XMR before the darknet pump and I'm amazed how undervalued and underhyped this project actually is (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/zcoin/). It has a long POW, founder reward (20% like Zcash, but bounties for dev contributions), a perfect privacy feature and is mineable by anyone with a cpu. They will also do the first working implementation of the MTP (Merkle-tree based) PoW, which will heavily favour home cpu miners (memory heavy cpu mining).

If you want privacy you can either jump on Zcash (https://z.cash/) or Zcoin (https://zcoin.tech/) currently, but Zcash seems way 2 corporate atm.

Any input is welcome, no trolling tho.

[maxfunky]

It has a long POW, founder reward (20% like Zcash, but bounties for dev contributions)

Zcoin (XZC) is the real deal. They have committed to make Monthly Donations for 4 years to charities and organizations supporting Ross Ulbricht (Silk Road).

https://news.bitcoin.com/zcoin-donating-ross-ulbricht-defense/

Interview with Lyn Ulbricht (mother of Silk Road creator) @ The Crypto Show  :
https://soundcloud.com/heryptohow/gary-le-zcoin-lyn-ulbricht-and-tatiana-moroz

[traumschiff]

It has a long POW, founder reward (20% like Zcash, but bounties for dev contributions)

Zcoin (XZC) is the real deal. They have committed to make Monthly Donations for 4 years to charities and organizations supporting Ross Ulbricht (Silk Road).

https://news.bitcoin.com/zcoin-donating-ross-ulbricht-defense/

Interview with Lyn Ulbricht (mother of Silk Road creator) @ The Crypto Show  :
https://soundcloud.com/heryptohow/gary-le-zcoin-lyn-ulbricht-and-tatiana-moroz

Certainly a good way 2 spend some of the founders reward, I'm actually all for darknet markets, certainly takes agression from the streets and solves problems in a cultivated manner.

[adhitthana]

Any input is welcome, no trolling tho.

1. I like the idea. I like the coin.
2.I'd appreciate some more transparency from the developers regarding the bounties paid, and how many the developers have sold. I have no problem with them selling but I'd like some transparency.
3.7200 new coins being mined every day for the next 4 years. So potentially 7200 coins being dumped every day for the next 4 years. I don't think that is good for people buying now.

I would have far preferred an ICO. Had it been an ICO I would possibly or even probably be happy to buy now. Following Bitcoins emission curve is not good news for people buying now IMHO. Too much risk that supply will be greater than demand.

This is exactly what we have been seeing. More supply than demand, resulting in the price falling

[bbc.reporter]

It has a long POW, founder reward (20% like Zcash, but bounties for dev contributions)

Zcoin (XZC) is the real deal. They have committed to make Monthly Donations for 4 years to charities and organizations supporting Ross Ulbricht (Silk Road).

https://news.bitcoin.com/zcoin-donating-ross-ulbricht-defense/

Interview with Lyn Ulbricht (mother of Silk Road creator) @ The Crypto Show  :
https://soundcloud.com/heryptohow/gary-le-zcoin-lyn-ulbricht-and-tatiana-moroz

So they are now buying their legitimacy by making "donations" to Ross Ulbrict's cause and ongoing appeals? Somewhere behind this is a group of people already planning an exit strategy. They will make bold claims that they are better than any anonymous coin out there and zcoin will be adopted by the mainstream. The minute the pump starts they start to sell their coins and hold bitcoins from then on. That makes them really bitcoiners.

They also used a vulnerable person who is Ross' mother to promote their coin. That is very pathetic.

Also go to https://petertodd.org/2016/cypherpunk-desert-bus-zcash-trusted-setup-ceremony

Peter Todd mentioned that zcash protocol and zkSnarks is broken.

[adhitthana]

I was a pretty early investor and miner in DASH, XC, VCASH and bought enough XMR before the darknet pump and I'm amazed how undervalued and underhyped this project actually is (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/zcoin/). .

I don't think looking at the current market cap is the most helpful way to look at the value.
So few coins have been released.
IMHO market capitalisation is a good tool for equities, as on most occaisions (witha few less important exceptions) whenever new shares are issued there is an injection of capital.

With POW crypto coins new coins are mined every day, yet there is no new injection of capital.

The best way IMHO is to look at the capitalisation of the total coins to be released (assuming there is no interest to be paid)
If there is interest to be paid one can look at the total coins and make an adjustment for interest.

Here we have a total marketcap of around $15m, on a largely untested coin and with at least one odd thing happening (the coverup re bounties).
http://zcoin.tech/?p=246&lang=en

I'd like to know what happened after Oct 20

[jbreher]

Peter Todd mentioned that zcash protocol and zkSnarks is broken.

Why would you mention this in a thread not dedicated to Zcash? This is a Zcoin thread, not a Zcash thread.

Incidentally, Peter Todd (as if he is any sort of authority on zk-SNARKS) did not say Zcash was broken. He said there is a greater chance that it may get broken in the future than would a coin based upon more widely understood cryptography. Unless I missed some new pronouncement.

[traumschiff]

It has a long POW, founder reward (20% like Zcash, but bounties for dev contributions)

Zcoin (XZC) is the real deal. They have committed to make Monthly Donations for 4 years to charities and organizations supporting Ross Ulbricht (Silk Road).

https://news.bitcoin.com/zcoin-donating-ross-ulbricht-defense/

Interview with Lyn Ulbricht (mother of Silk Road creator) @ The Crypto Show  :
https://soundcloud.com/heryptohow/gary-le-zcoin-lyn-ulbricht-and-tatiana-moroz

So they are now buying their legitimacy by making "donations" to Ross Ulbrict's cause and ongoing appeals? Somewhere behind this is a group of people already planning an exit strategy. They will make bold claims that they are better than any anonymous coin out there and zcoin will be adopted by the mainstream. The minute the pump starts they start to sell their coins and hold bitcoins from then on. That makes them really bitcoiners.

They also used a vulnerable person who is Ross' mother to promote their coin. That is very pathetic.

Also go to https://petertodd.org/2016/cypherpunk-desert-bus-zcash-trusted-setup-ceremony

Peter Todd mentioned that zcash protocol and zkSnarks is broken.

Zcoin (Zerocoin protocol) isn't using zkSnarks though. Zerocoin is also widely researched (from an academic perspective) since years and Zcash built the new Zerocrash protocol out of Zerocoin. Zerocash protocol is fairly new and can have some heavy vulnerabilities no one knows of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zerocoin

http://blog.zcoin.tech/zcoin-and-zcash/

Zcoin is the first working implementation of the Zerocoin protocol.

[derrend]

I've been minting, sending and buying zcoin for the past few days and I honestly feel that it is equal to (and in many ways greater than) zcash.

In fact I find I am much more comfortable with zcoin because it has received almost no hype and so is rationally priced as opposed to zcash which started life on the markets at a blistering $2,000,000 each if I'm not mistaken.

Zcoin and zcash for crypto reasons were initially setup using a system which requires trust on the developers part which means that if the setup were to be compromised it would be immediately visible on the zcoin chain but completely undetectable on the zcash chain because you cannot see the currency amounts.

Some may argue at this point that zcoin is inferior in terms of privacy because the amounts are visible and if you believe that to be the case then you do not understand how the zerocoin protocol works or why it's been a topic of such note and discussion for the past few years.

Zerocoin was proposed by Johns Hopkins University professor Matthew D. Green and graduate students Ian Miers and Christina Garman. Not exactly a fly-by-night outfit I'm sure you'll agree.

I found this video helpful:


Disclaimer, I don't work for zcoin but I am a software developer and I do develop security oriented applications based on crypto.

[cryptohunter]

Random question and probably an ignorant one, can these coins (zcash and zcoin) be cloned and operate on a POS model as opposed to a POW model?

Are these new anon coins not as simple to " mess around with " as the ltc clones so will many of the developers that can cope with these struggle to keep zcoin and zcash clones updated and secure and deal with any attempted attacks etc?

[Flomess]

Random question and probably an ignorant one, can these coins (zcash and zcoin) be cloned and operate on a POS model as opposed to a POW model?

Are these new anon coins not as simple to " mess around with " as the ltc clones so will many of the developers that can cope with these struggle to keep zcoin and zcash clones updated and secure and deal with any attempted attacks etc?

Well it's a quite tecnical question to answer but i belive it's possible (atleast for zcash) since i've seen a recent ICO with zchas anon tech and 3% PoS, no Pow.

[traumschiff]

Random question and probably an ignorant one, can these coins (zcash and zcoin) be cloned and operate on a POS model as opposed to a POW model?

Are these new anon coins not as simple to " mess around with " as the ltc clones so will many of the developers that can cope with these struggle to keep zcoin and zcash clones updated and secure and deal with any attempted attacks etc?

Well it's a quite tecnical question to answer but i belive it's possible (atleast for zcash) since i've seen a recent ICO with zchas anon tech and 3% PoS, no Pow.

I don't see any technical limitation in going PoS with any of these coins. Honestly though, I feel that PoW > PoS in terms of public image and if you want a coin that has a long life (latecommers have an easier time to invest because continious influx of new coins). Technical wise I would go with a PoW/PoS hybrid.

But imho a long PoW like what Zcoin has is still superior to a fast pow > pos or just pos pump/dump scheme.

[cryptohunter]

Random question and probably an ignorant one, can these coins (zcash and zcoin) be cloned and operate on a POS model as opposed to a POW model?

Are these new anon coins not as simple to " mess around with " as the ltc clones so will many of the developers that can cope with these struggle to keep zcoin and zcash clones updated and secure and deal with any attempted attacks etc?

Well it's a quite tecnical question to answer but i belive it's possible (atleast for zcash) since i've seen a recent ICO with zchas anon tech and 3% PoS, no Pow.

I don't see any technical limitation in going PoS with any of these coins. Honestly though, I feel that PoW > PoS in terms of public image and if you want a coin that has a long life (latecommers have an easier time to invest because continious influx of new coins). Technical wise I would go with a PoW/PoS hybrid.

But imho a long PoW like what Zcoin has is still superior to a fast pow > pos or just pos pump/dump scheme.

Thanks for the answers.

I like POW for initial distribution but then the 20 percent tax is rather high if it is not on a strict ledger detailing how this will me allocated. I mean 20% just constantly being dumped is not good. If they could even ledger 17% and dump 3% for their own wages etc would be okay. I have not really studied the emission curve on this one so I am not sure if now is a good time to jump in or not. I'm glad I stayed out of zcash at 0.25 now I guess that will sink a little lower until perhaps after the first 34 days is over. Some got for 15 bucks so that seems a bottom that may be time to grabs some up .

I like POS for securing the chain more than POW. Only because I just don't like the idea of electricity being burned for years when POS can seemingly achieve adequate security and functionality. I know there is an argument far above my understanding that POS will never be as secure as POW but since up until now I have not witnessed this myself I will take the risk and plump for having low inflations POS coins over POW.

I await a zcoin clone with low inflation and some decent initial distributional method.. maybe a short fair release POW phase of a few months. With some proven devs who fully understand the tech behind it and a decent dev pot with controlled access and some good milestones set out.

Have grabbed a couple of zcoins but just for collection reasons really for now not waded in with my huge btc regular investment of between 0.1 and 0.25 btc for promising return prospects ha although it does look quite low now compared to where i bought my first couple and seems perhaps a little over sold right now....who can say at this time with btc taking off again.