Bitcoin can you stand alone?

[Przemax]

I honestly cant imagine the bitcoin use for wider scale than just in a use of internet services. Firstly we would need to  have a market that allows bitcoin only attainable goods like computer gaming, programming etc. I could see bitcoins as standalone in one development project. Its uses could be much more than a system of payment. Bitcoin could represent some level of individual involvment in some project. For example a project have a budget of 10 bitcoins and each actions could attain you some bitcoins. You can then send some bitcoins to a friend to help you with some other task. In other words blockchain technology can help develop new chain of orders within a new system of managment of resources.

[deisik]

Fiat is needed to measure the value of bitcoin so it cannot stand alone as it is depended on it

Fiat is needed to measure the value of gold too

And a lot of other things as well, in fact, almost all things. But does it mean that gold and other things have no value without fiat? Since it is obvious that weight can perfectly well exist without scales, it should be as clear as day that fiat serves only a utilitarian function of revealing the value of one good against another good (but not creating this value, which is inherent to things). So are you going to continue claiming that Bitcoin can't stand alone even if that would mean that all other things couldn't have value on their own either, i.e. without fiat hanging around?

[MancyZz]

Can you stop pricing yourself in fiat?

I would say it is with almost 100% certainty that you cannot.

I'm wondering just how long you will use the fiat banking system as your crutch.

what is mean bitcoin don not stand alone ? i think until now bitcoin is stand alone

[Tyrantt]

I honestly cant imagine the bitcoin use for wider scale than just in a use of internet services. Firstly we would need to  have a market that allows bitcoin only attainable goods like computer gaming, programming etc. I could see bitcoins as standalone in one development project. Its uses could be much more than a system of payment. Bitcoin could represent some level of individual involvment in some project. For example a project have a budget of 10 bitcoins and each actions could attain you some bitcoins. You can then send some bitcoins to a friend to help you with some other task. In other words blockchain technology can help develop new chain of orders within a new system of managment of resources.

I see it being integrated a lot more into daily life as an optional payment, may have some fees but it would be like a second option to payment.

[noictib]

Can you stop pricing yourself in fiat?

I would say it is with almost 100% certainty that you cannot.

I'm wondering just how long you will use the fiat banking system as your crutch.

I think fiat is crutch for everyone and also for every country fiat is a main thing ( since it gives us limitations to make deals in the whole world with less each charge ) But still we can't make buy anything without fiat in own country .
So we need to remain in touch with both , Bitcoin and fiat .

[geofflosophy]

Can you stop pricing yourself in fiat?

I would say it is with almost 100% certainty that you cannot.

I'm wondering just how long you will use the fiat banking system as your crutch.

Yes, no problem. I already changed my perspective. I consider fiat a vastly inferior form of money. A "gain" in bitcoin fiat "value" is in fact a decrease of fiat purchasing power compared to Bitcoin.

I will never exchange Bitcoin for fiat trash money. I never did. It just makes no sense.

For Bitcoin to be generally perceived as a reference for value, we need a closed-loop Bitcoin economy. That will take some time. Nowadays fiat money is moving into Bitcoin relatively slowly, however the stream will increase significantly once we see more inflation. The central banks are doing the best possible advertising for Bitcoin. Their actions will produce hyperinflation and destroy the acceptance of fiat money. Bitcoin will thrive because of these developments.

ya.ya.yo!

What he said.

[Bitcoin0916]

I think it is not possible can stand alone, bitcoin is also influenced by many things, for example, is banned by many the governments. If approved by the Government bitcoin could, will certainly further improve the popularity of the bitcoin and the price will be go up.

[Positid]

I think it is not possible can stand alone, bitcoin is also influenced by many things, for example, is banned by many the governments. If approved by the Government bitcoin could, will certainly further improve the popularity of the bitcoin and the price will be go up.

It can't stand alone as it's just an alternative currency, it's only popular because we see the price is increasing and has increased from less than a dollar in the past but it will not come to the point that we will be using bitcoin in our daily transaction and we will disregard fiat, not possible IMO.

[mrcash02]

I think it is not possible can stand alone, bitcoin is also influenced by many things, for example, is banned by many the governments. If approved by the Government bitcoin could, will certainly further improve the popularity of the bitcoin and the price will be go up.

It can't stand alone as it's just an alternative currency, it's only popular because we see the price is increasing and has increased from less than a dollar in the past but it will not come to the point that we will be using bitcoin in our daily transaction and we will disregard fiat, not possible IMO.

That is true, alternative currencies can't stand alone as the main currency. Everything turns around dollar because it's a trusted and stable coin, most economy guys, investors, businessmen trust in dollar and it won't change so fast. Currently, as an alternative currency, Bitcoin can just be more one currency in this vast world, however it doesn't mean BTC is less important than dollar or any other currency. On the contrary, the potential of Bitcoin is much bigger than any other currency.

[rajasumi2]

yess bitcoins can stop alone in this fiat and stop the use of fiat totally when the government of all countries agree to be using bitcoins as their currency .well well if u think thats gonna happen soon no it would not ,it would take minimum 50 years to happen that and the price of bitcoins would reach to a certain level so that we can have stability to a certain level.

[deisik]

I think it is not possible can stand alone, bitcoin is also influenced by many things, for example, is banned by many the governments. If approved by the Government bitcoin could, will certainly further improve the popularity of the bitcoin and the price will be go up.

It can't stand alone as it's just an alternative currency, it's only popular because we see the price is increasing and has increased from less than a dollar in the past but it will not come to the point that we will be using bitcoin in our daily transaction and we will disregard fiat, not possible IMO.

That is true, alternative currencies can't stand alone as the main currency. Everything turns around dollar because it's a trusted and stable coin, most economy guys, investors, businessmen trust in dollar and it won't change so fast. Currently, as an alternative currency, Bitcoin can just be more one currency in this vast world, however it doesn't mean BTC is less important than dollar or any other currency. On the contrary, the potential of Bitcoin is much bigger than any other currency.

Such logic looks utterly suspicious

If everything turns around the dollar as you say, shouldn't we then consider, for example, Swiss franc and Euro as alternative currencies too, in the sense you mean it? If we compare economies of the US and the EU, they are pretty close, so there is no reason to think the Euro is an alternative currency to the US dollar since it could be claimed in absolutely the same manner and to the same degree that the US dollar is an alternative currency to the Euro. In respect to the Swiss franc, it is thought as a more stable currency overall than the dollar itself (no quantitative easings and similar shit), therefore there is hardly any plausible reason either to think that it somehow depends on the latter

[QuestionAuthority]

I think it is not possible can stand alone, bitcoin is also influenced by many things, for example, is banned by many the governments. If approved by the Government bitcoin could, will certainly further improve the popularity of the bitcoin and the price will be go up.

It can't stand alone as it's just an alternative currency, it's only popular because we see the price is increasing and has increased from less than a dollar in the past but it will not come to the point that we will be using bitcoin in our daily transaction and we will disregard fiat, not possible IMO.

That is true, alternative currencies can't stand alone as the main currency. Everything turns around dollar because it's a trusted and stable coin, most economy guys, investors, businessmen trust in dollar and it won't change so fast. Currently, as an alternative currency, Bitcoin can just be more one currency in this vast world, however it doesn't mean BTC is less important than dollar or any other currency. On the contrary, the potential of Bitcoin is much bigger than any other currency.

Such logic looks utterly suspicious

If everything turns around the dollar as you say, shouldn't we then consider, for example, Swiss franc and Euro as alternative currencies too, in the sense you mean it? If we compare economies of the US and the EU, they are pretty close, so there is no reason to think the Euro is an alternative currency to the US dollar since it could be claimed in absolutely the same manner and to the same degree that the US dollar is an alternative currency to the Euro. In respect to the Swiss franc, it is thought as a more stable currency than the dollar itself, therefore there is hardly any plausible reason either to think that it somehow depends on the latter

That's very true. Altcoins are no more valid or invalid than Bitcoin. The only difference is Bitcoin has been around longer. Angel investors spent money building infrastructure around Bitcoin because it was new and they were looking for something cutting edge to invest in hoping for that "Mark Zuckerberg" success someday. They could just as easily have invested in Litecoin and it would be the most recognized coin today. If Litecoin were around at the time and Ross Ulbricht used it for Silk Road purchases then Litecoin would be on top.

[CyberKuro]

Things that the current bitcoin ecosystem depends on to survive right now:

Nodes
Miners

True.  Since these things DEFINE bitcoin, it does depend on their existence.  To say otherwise would be to say that the existence of bitcoin does not require the existence of bitcoin.

Exchanges
Fiat
Internet

While those three things are not required at all for the continued existence of bitcoin, they are helpful.  They make bitcoin mush easier to use and make it much easier for others to start using bitcoin if they want to.

Noobs
Bitcoin news outlets
Alt coins
Promotions

Bitcoin doesn't need any of those things, and in many cases some of those things are actually WORSE for bitcoin than if they didn't exist.

Could it ever be independent and self sufficient?

That depends on what you mean by "independent and self sufficient".  If you mean can it exist without the things that define it (nodes and miners), then no it can't ever be "independent and self sufficient".  If you mean can it exist without any mandated participation, then it is already "independent and self sufficient".

Sometimes it just seems like a black hole that will forever need more and more resources to survive.

Yes.  Bitcoin (or any other money system) is simply a method of tracking how much of one thing you can exchange for another thing.  Since we humans have a tendency to use resources to continue our existence, and bitcoin (and other money systems) simply keep track of the exchange of things such as those resources, all money systems will always be "a black hole that will forever need more and more resources to survive".

Yes, it's really important to know about how bitcoin can stand alone, too many factors affecting bitcoin and it can not separate from those things, however, not only bitcoin depends on resources, we all human did. Bitcoin can stop be pricing in fiat but to anything that valuable due to people need to know the value of something according to the benefits of it to compare with anything.

[deisik]

You can't stop using fiat money from one moment to another. We like it or not, fiat is around us, and we have to use it for living. If fiat stops exists one day, maybe then we can use only bitcoin, but now it's not the time

Technically, fiat is only needed as cash

If we take electronic payments and assume that Bitcoin could be scaled up efficiently and effectively (which is a big assume, to be honest), I see nothing that could prevent Bitcoin from substituting fiat. In fact, on a world scale, Bitcoin would beat fiat money hands down any day, since the transactions are propagated almost instantly across the world (maybe, a few seconds at most) and the confirmation times of ten minutes (remember, Bitcoin has been scaled up to the level of adoption) are also almost instant in comparison with wire transfers that take up to a few days, especially if you send money from one country to another on the other side of the planet

Such logic looks utterly suspicious

If everything turns around the dollar as you say, shouldn't we then consider, for example, Swiss franc and Euro as alternative currencies too, in the sense you mean it? If we compare economies of the US and the EU, they are pretty close, so there is no reason to think the Euro is an alternative currency to the US dollar since it could be claimed in absolutely the same manner and to the same degree that the US dollar is an alternative currency to the Euro. In respect to the Swiss franc, it is thought as a more stable currency than the dollar itself, therefore there is hardly any plausible reason either to think that it somehow depends on the latter

That's very true. Altcoins are no more valid or invalid than Bitcoin. The only difference is Bitcoin has been around longer. Angel investors spent money building infrastructure around Bitcoin because it was new and they were looking for something cutting edge to invest in hoping for that "Mark Zuckerberg" success someday. They could just as easily have invested in Litecoin and it would be the most recognized coin today. If Litecoin were around at the time and Ross Ulbricht used it for Silk Road purchases then Litecoin would be on top.

Well, somehow I didn't expect that you would agree with me

[darklus123]

Fiat is needed to measure the value of bitcoin so it cannot stand alone as it is depended on it

Fiat is needed to measure the value of gold too

And a lot of other things as well, in fact, almost all things. But does it mean that gold and other things have no value without fiat? Since it is obvious that weight can perfectly well exist without scales, it should be as clear as day that fiat serves only a utilitarian function of revealing the value of one good against another good (but not creating this value, which is inherent to things). So are you going to continue claiming that Bitcoin can't stand alone even if that would mean that all other things couldn't have value on their own either, i.e. without fiat hanging around?

You basically said all the right things that I know. Well, in fact all of us here( I'm 90% sure that we uses bitcoin for our fiat needs) Even the fiat currency it self needs other currency to sustain its value. So what was the difference in the first place? People are just over thinking

[QuestionAuthority]

You can't stop using fiat money from one moment to another. We like it or not, fiat is around us, and we have to use it for living. If fiat stops exists one day, maybe then we can use only bitcoin, but now it's not the time

Technically, fiat is only needed as cash

If we take electronic payments and assume that Bitcoin could be scaled up efficiently and effectively (which is a big assume, to be honest), I see nothing that could prevent Bitcoin from substituting fiat. In fact, on a world scale, Bitcoin would beat fiat money hands down any day, since the transactions are propagated almost instantly across the world (maybe, a few seconds at most) and the confirmation times of ten minutes (remember, Bitcoin has been scaled up to the level of adoption) are also almost instant in comparison with wire transfers that take up to a few days, especially if you send money from one country to another on the other side of the planet

Such logic looks utterly suspicious

If everything turns around the dollar as you say, shouldn't we then consider, for example, Swiss franc and Euro as alternative currencies too, in the sense you mean it? If we compare economies of the US and the EU, they are pretty close, so there is no reason to think the Euro is an alternative currency to the US dollar since it could be claimed in absolutely the same manner and to the same degree that the US dollar is an alternative currency to the Euro. In respect to the Swiss franc, it is thought as a more stable currency than the dollar itself, therefore there is hardly any plausible reason either to think that it somehow depends on the latter

That's very true. Altcoins are no more valid or invalid than Bitcoin. The only difference is Bitcoin has been around longer. Angel investors spent money building infrastructure around Bitcoin because it was new and they were looking for something cutting edge to invest in hoping for that "Mark Zuckerberg" success someday. They could just as easily have invested in Litecoin and it would be the most recognized coin today. If Litecoin were around at the time and Ross Ulbricht used it for Silk Road purchases then Litecoin would be on top.

Well, somehow I didn't expect that you would agree with me

I agree with the truth regardless of whether it favors Bitcoin or it's against it. What you said is the truth.