What to do with lost bitcoins

[deisik]

We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest adding a special flag which would add a certain period of time after which the wallet with that flag set by the wallet owner should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

In this way, we can "resurrect" some of the lost bitcoins for the common good. To avoid asking and answering the same things all over again, I add important clarification below:

First, there is no way to technically distinguish between lost coins and purposefully unmoved coins.
They both are the same and it is not reasonable to make people move their coins every so often in
order to prove that they still have control. If in the event, a protocol change is proposed that users
will need to transfer their coins to "safer addresses" that is done as a security measure, not just so
that the devs/miners know "we can't take them back" from them

What about adding some parameter which would basically say that the coins from this wallet shouldn't be moved under any circumstances with default being set to donating them after some period. That might work very much like organ donation, and the way voluntary consent is obtained (opt-in vs opt-out). In this case, both options can be used, i.e. in the case of an opt-out the coins of anyone who has not explicitly refused to donate them will be moved after the expiration of the timeout, or that timeout period could be set by default to infinity effectively meaning that the coins should never be moved. That would be the opt-in option, i.e. only the coins of those who have given explicit consent will be donated...

Also, instead of donating coins, they might be marked as just not yet mined

This mindset contradicts one of the reasons why Satoshi created Bitcoin in the first place.
Your money is your money and in theory, no one can take it away under any circumstances.
Comparing what regulated banks are allowed to do should not be applied to Bitcoin ever.

Shrouds have no pockets

[rajasumi3]

this is the loop hole of bitcoins and its blockchain .and i think in the future run wehn the top  programmers will find a good solution for this problem and recover all the bitcoins that have been lost  then it would be awesome .

[DannyHamilton]

We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest setting a grace period of, say, ten years after which all wallets that remain untouched during that time and not reclaimed by anyone, should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

In this way, we will always have 21M bitcoins after the last bitcoin is mined and can also "resurrect" lost bitcoins for the common good

Taking something that doesn't belong to you is theft.  I suggest you take your criminal idea and character flaw and go create an altcoin that implements your "We'll steal your stuff after a while" idea.  I'm not interested in having your horrible idea in my bitcoin, and since bitcoin is a consensus system you'll never get such a change made anyhow.

Since this topic has been discussed HUNDREDS of times in the past 8 years, can we please just lock this thread now?  Perhaps anyone that posts in this thread with a sig ad after this should just automatically be perma-banned?

[deisik]

We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest setting a grace period of, say, ten years after which all wallets that remain untouched during that time and not reclaimed by anyone, should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

In this way, we will always have 21M bitcoins after the last bitcoin is mined and can also "resurrect" lost bitcoins for the common good

Taking something that doesn't belong to you is theft.  I suggest you take your criminal idea and character flaw and go create an altcoin that implements your "We'll steal your stuff after a while" idea.  I'm not interested in having your horrible idea in my bitcoin, and since bitcoin is a consensus system you'll never get such a change made anyhow.

As to me, you are confusing different issues

No one is talking about stealing here. In fact, in many countries there are laws regulating how the lost things (for example, buried treasures) can be claimed as the property of those who found them. If I remember correctly, in Denmark, if no one lives in an apartment for a year, it can be taken by anyone, and the previous right of ownership is revoked

Perhaps anyone that posts in this thread with a sig ad after this should just automatically be perma-banned?

I guess the answer should be a definite no. But you can leave, of course

[franky1]

We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest setting a grace period of, say, ten years after which all wallets that remain untouched during that time and not reclaimed by anyone, should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

In this way, we will always have 21M bitcoins after the last bitcoin is mined and can also "resurrect" lost bitcoins for the common good

sorry but some people are hoarding.for god reason. be it pension. be it future inheritance for their kids.
but you seem to not care so:

ok. let me get your bank account and however much you deposited 10 years ago.. thats mine now
have any relatives that invested into gold and has sat in a vault 10 years ago.. thats mine now

Wait.. lets raid your pension pot because that is in an account for 40 years... thats mine now
wait. your grandma has a gold chain she left sat in her jewellry box.. thats all mine now

wait theres a house on a street in your name thats older than 10 years.. thats mine now

as for saying funds should go to "to finance scientific research..." LOL sorry but banks are happy to throw millions of dollars at blockstream, circle, bloq, blockchain.info .. they dont need to rip apart bitcoins immutability/fungibility to fund those 'research' businesses.

i do laugh at your 'research' word you threw in.. anyone can claim they are researchers and never have to produce results/products/services for such funding.

seriously flawed plan you have and this idea is not new.. many greedy a-holes have dreamed up a free pay day due to other peoples pension/investment/inheritance hoards.

no one should touch other people funds no matter how long its held. many people have put paper wallets in a 'time capsule' or a LastWill for their offspring. and it should stay with them

if you disagree.. then give all YOUR property/funds over 10 years old and practice what you preach by you being the first to hand over YOUR property.

lets see you backtrack and try to reword it to protect your own property/pension reserves from being handed out

[Tanic]

this is the loop hole of bitcoins and its blockchain .and i think in the future run wehn the top  programmers will find a good solution for this problem and recover all the bitcoins that have been lost  then it would be awesome .

That's the main bitcoin problem. maybe cause of it hasn't government's support or cause of all operations are provided through the net, but bitcoin is not protected from scammers and hackers at all.

[crairezx20]

I think it is better to don't do anything because it can affect the price of bitcoin if they are planning to reverse bitcoin from the address when they are sent the bitcoin.. And this is the advantage of bitcoin because no one can access and touch that bitcoin to sell it that can affect the value of bitcoin so if no one can touch it even we are selling all our bitcoin it has still a value because some bitcoin are lose. and no one can sell it.

[deisik]

We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest setting a grace period of, say, ten years after which all wallets that remain untouched during that time and not reclaimed by anyone, should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

In this way, we will always have 21M bitcoins after the last bitcoin is mined and can also "resurrect" lost bitcoins for the common good

sorry but some people are hoarding.for god reason. be it pension. be it future inheritance for their kids.
but you seem to not care so:

You obviously don't get it, as always

I'm not talking about taking all bitcoins from the wallets that existed for more than 10 years. I'm talking only about those wallets that have been absolutely dormant for that period of time. I mean no transactions, no signed messages, absolutely nothing. If you think that 10 years is too small (which may well be), let's take 50 years (and hope that Bitcoin will still exist after half a century)

ok. let me get your bank account and however much you deposited 10 years ago.. thats mine now
have any relatives that invested into gold and has sat in a vault 10 years ago.. thats mine now

You are in for a big surprise. If nobody claims the funds in a bank account they are taken by the government. In different countries different terms are set, but these accounts do expire after a certain period of inactivity. I guess the same applies to bank vaults

[xIIImaL]

this is the loop hole of bitcoins and its blockchain .and i think in the future run wehn the top  programmers will find a good solution for this problem and recover all the bitcoins that have been lost  then it would be awesome .

That's the main bitcoin problem. maybe cause of it hasn't government's support or cause of all operations are provided through the net, but bitcoin is not protected from scammers and hackers at all.

Why you government support Buddy. If they make btc as a centralized money and these political idiots create more loop holes how they created in their constituency rules.

[Nevis]

I think it is better if lost bitcoins will be lost forever.Blockchain has no isses of failed delivering and losing bitcoins.Dead and untouched wallets must remain as is because it is someones property we dont have rights to do that

[AgentofCoin]

We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest setting a grace period of, say, ten years after which all wallets that remain untouched during that time and not reclaimed by anyone, should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

In this way, we will always have 21M bitcoins after the last bitcoin is mined and can also "resurrect" lost bitcoins for the common good

sorry but some people are hoarding.for god reason. be it pension. be it future inheritance for their kids.
but you seem to not care so:

You obviously don't get it, as always

I'm not talking about taking all bitcoins from the wallets that existed for more than 10 years. I'm talking only about those wallets that have been absolutely dormant for that period of time. I mean no transactions, no signed messages, absolutely nothing. If you think that 10 years is too small (which may well be), let's take 50 years (and hope that Bitcoin will still exist after half a century)

ok. let me get your bank account and however much you deposited 10 years ago.. thats mine now
have any relatives that invested into gold and has sat in a vault 10 years ago.. thats mine now

You are in for a big surprise. If nobody claims the funds in a bank account they are taken by the government. In different countries different terms are set, but these accounts do expire after a certain period of inactivity. I guess the same applies to bank vaults

First, there is no way to technically distinguish between lost coins and purposefully unmoved coins.
They both are the same and it is not reasonable to make people move their coins every so often in
order to prove that they still have control. If in the event, a protocol change is proposed that users
will need to transfer their coins to "safer addresses" that is done as a security measure, not just so
that the devs/miners know "we can't take them back" from them.

This mindset contradicts one of the reasons why Satoshi created Bitcoin in the first place.
Your money is your money and in theory, no one can take it away under any circumstances.
Comparing what regulated banks are allowed to do should not be applied to Bitcoin ever.

With regard to lost coins Satoshi didn't say what you said but:

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more.  Think of it as a donation to everyone.
...

He did not entertain reabsorbing them, since that would contradict his foundational ideology.

[digaran]

I think I have a good solution for this, never lose your private key, problem solved.
If you are familiar with online world and then using bitcoin you should know to always keep the private keys in a safe place and failing to do so is no one else's fault but your's.

[aardvark15]

I don't think you can try to cancel old Bitcoins because there is no way to know if they are lost or just saved. Some people could save Bitcoins for 50 years to give to their children or grandchildren.

[sportis]

You are in for a big surprise. If nobody claims the funds in a bank account they are taken by the government. In different countries different terms are set, but these accounts do expire after a certain period of inactivity. I guess the same applies to bank vaults

This is true for banks. And in my country same policy applies; Government takes the fiat money from inactive bank accounts, but there is a significant difference. National governments have the control of fiat money circulation and have the right to take these money for common good and transfer the funds to accounts that belong to this country and not to people. But using bitcoin this is different. Let's say that we have 50 bitcoins dormant in blockchain we do not know to whom they belong. These coins after some period (time is not the point) must somehow be put into circulation. Maybe someone can transfer it to his own wallet or if sold to exchange market someone will take fiat money. As you proposed to finance scientific research or I say a NGO. But who will decide that? This is my question

[calkob]

We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest setting a grace period of, say, 10 years (or 50 years if 10 years is too little) after which all wallets that remain untouched during that time and not reclaimed by anyone, should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

In this way, we will always have 21M bitcoins after the last bitcoin is mined and can also "resurrect" lost bitcoins for the common good

So what if someone decides to save for 51 years or put something away for the next generation, what do you just steal them.  its this sort of thinking that most people using bitcoin are trying to get away from.  MY MONEY IS MY MONEY, KEEP YOUR FILTHY HANDS OFF IT.   

[mrcash02]

I think the lost Bitcoins should be added to the blockchain again to be mined by miners. Each X years a new chain could be created with the lost BTCs.

Makes no sense to lose some amounts of Bitcoins forever because someone lost it. If this happen frequently, someday we will have few Bitcoins circulating and the most coins lost forever.

[Tyrantt]

Deleting (returning bitcoin into blocks) bitcoins after a longer period of time of unusing the wallet they're on. That period should be around 15 years.. 10 years seems like, maybe, a reasonable amount of time for someone to store or unleast thy'd probably remember after 10 years if they've not lost the key or login info and 50years is a little too much imo.

[GreenLighter]

There is no way to. Just because they have not moved does not mean they are lost

[aardvark15]

Deleting (returning bitcoin into blocks) bitcoins after a longer period of time of unusing the wallet they're on. That period should be around 15 years.. 10 years seems like, maybe, a reasonable amount of time for someone to store or unleast thy'd probably remember after 10 years if they've not lost the key or login info and 50years is a little too much imo.

This will never be done because we will never know if the coins are lost or just saved. I may want to save mine for my grandchildren. If we start changing the system to take away people's coins, people will no longer trust Bitcoin and it will fail.

[rapazev]

most people in investing in bitcoin are in it for the future. People buy it, send it to a wallet, save the privkey and never look back(at least for a few years). i even remember of post around here of a guy who bought 2~4 bitcoins using his savings and hided the keys  in a pendrive in his backyard(burried).

So, how would you know which wallet has "lost" bitcoins and which is just holding for the years?