The Big Rip theory of Bitcoin

[Wind_FURY]

Whilst working out at the gym it came to me. I think I get what you are trying to say now. So what about this explanation. Let us say that Bitcoin indeed reached $1m per coin. Every Bitcoin holder will be rich and that will encourage them to spend their coins, thus achieving the Big Rip more quickly. A person who is holding BTC0.5 even will have enough to spend for his needs for a few years.

[deisik]

Whilst working out at the gym it came to me. I think I get what you are trying to say now. So what about this explanation. Let us say that Bitcoin indeed reached $1m per coin. Every Bitcoin holder will be rich and that will encourage them to spend their coins, thus achieving the Big Rip more quickly. A person who is holding BTC0.5 even will have enough to spend for his needs for a few years.

In the Bitcoin Big Rip scenario the Bitcoin Universe should have already expanded infinitely (well, almost). In this manner, any amount spent would only lead to further dissipation of bitcoins (entropy rising). In practice, it means that when someone wants to spend 0.5BTC (i.e. half a million dollars), it gets into many hands unless this guys buys, say, a house for the whole of his 0.5 BTC. But since folks don't buy homes every other day but spend a lot on minor things (read cheap things), eventually this expenditures will lead to more even distribution of coins...

That would ultimately amount to the heat death of the Bitcoin Universe and eventual Big Rip

[davis196]

The scientists are arguing whether the Universe will ultimately implode into one big black hole (so-called Big Crunch) or explode into nothingness (so-called Big Rip). The Big Rip essentially means that all the matter of the Universe including stars, atoms and elementary particles as well as spacetime itself will be torn apart by the expanding Universe in the future. As I see it, the Big Crunch in respect to Bitcoin would mean accumulating all bitcoins in a few or just one pair of hands, but this is not very likely to happen, so the Big Rip seems to be more possible as we see with the price sky-rocketing right now. Given the Bitcoin infinite divisibility, the Big Rip of Bitcoin would mean the price per 1 BTC shooting through the moon and farther into the depths of the Universe, thereby making Bitcoin and its 21 million coins dissolve completely in the financial spacetime...

So how likely is this, and what is your understanding of how things might unfold in this regard?

What`s the point of combining astronomy and bitcoin?

The bitcoin price isn`t sky rocketing anymore and this is good news.I don`t think that we need another

speculation bubble.

I really don`t know what you are trying to say in your thread?

[eddyfly]

The scientists are arguing whether the Universe will ultimately implode into one big black hole (so-called Big Crunch) or explode into nothingness (so-called Big Rip). The Big Rip essentially means that all the matter of the Universe including stars, atoms and elementary particles as well as spacetime itself will be torn apart by the expanding Universe in the future. As I see it, the Big Crunch in respect to Bitcoin would mean accumulating all bitcoins in a few or just one pair of hands, but this is not very likely to happen, so the Big Rip seems to be more possible as we see with the price sky-rocketing right now. Given the Bitcoin infinite divisibility, the Big Rip of Bitcoin would mean the price per 1 BTC shooting through the moon and farther into the depths of the Universe, thereby making Bitcoin and its 21 million coins dissolve completely in the financial spacetime...

So how likely is this, and what is your understanding of how things might unfold in this regard?

What`s the point of combining astronomy and bitcoin?

The bitcoin price isn`t sky rocketing anymore and this is good news.I don`t think that we need another

speculation bubble.

I really don`t know what you are trying to say in your thread?

Reading this forum while ago , and always happen the same, as a coin rises , everything is hyp, and wow! and this and that, a lot of posts all talking about how wonderfull is btc, today $1000 tomorrow 10000, bla bla ...  and so, next day the coin crash as hard as it was pumped, and everything goes in black-apocalyptic posts etc.
is interesting to get the point of both of them , and get your own final conclusion

[deisik]

The scientists are arguing whether the Universe will ultimately implode into one big black hole (so-called Big Crunch) or explode into nothingness (so-called Big Rip). The Big Rip essentially means that all the matter of the Universe including stars, atoms and elementary particles as well as spacetime itself will be torn apart by the expanding Universe in the future. As I see it, the Big Crunch in respect to Bitcoin would mean accumulating all bitcoins in a few or just one pair of hands, but this is not very likely to happen, so the Big Rip seems to be more possible as we see with the price sky-rocketing right now. Given the Bitcoin infinite divisibility, the Big Rip of Bitcoin would mean the price per 1 BTC shooting through the moon and farther into the depths of the Universe, thereby making Bitcoin and its 21 million coins dissolve completely in the financial spacetime...

So how likely is this, and what is your understanding of how things might unfold in this regard?

What`s the point of combining astronomy and bitcoin?

Obviously, I'm not combining astronomy with bitcoin. All I do is draw analogies with cosmic events to make my point clearer. After all, it is basically the same laws that drive everything around us, right? If you disagree with that, you can try to challenge this stance, but remember, just declaring your disagreement most likely won't be of any interest to anyone. In case you don't understand what I am trying to say here, I guess you may want to read the OP more carefully. If you still don't understand something, feel free to ask...

If understanding is really the point of your presence here, of course

Reading this forum while ago , and always happen the same, as a coin rises , everything is hyp, and wow! and this and that, a lot of posts all talking about how wonderfull is btc, today $1000 tomorrow 10000, bla bla ...  and so, next day the coin crash as hard as it was pumped, and everything goes in black-apocalyptic posts etc

In fact, exactly this rally pushed me toward the question what would happen if Bitcoin price continued to rise indefinitely, but this has nothing to do with talks over how wonderful Bitcoin is

[spiritglove]

The scientists are arguing whether the Universe will ultimately implode into one big black hole (so-called Big Crunch) or explode into nothingness (so-called Big Rip). The Big Rip essentially means that all the matter of the Universe including stars, atoms and elementary particles as well as spacetime itself will be torn apart by the expanding Universe in the future. As I see it, the Big Crunch in respect to Bitcoin would mean accumulating all bitcoins in a few or just one pair of hands, but this is not very likely to happen, so the Big Rip seems to be more possible as we see with the price sky-rocketing right now. Given the Bitcoin infinite divisibility, the Big Rip of Bitcoin would mean the price per 1 BTC shooting through the moon and farther into the depths of the Universe, thereby making Bitcoin and its 21 million coins dissolve completely in the financial spacetime...

So how likely is this, and what is your understanding of how things might unfold in this regard?

OK, Challenge accepted

It is no longer an argument the Universe is actually expanding faster and faster. As long as human consciousness does the same so will our progress in the material world. That includes Bitcoin or other virtual means of exchange will become more prolific. It is really a no brainer. A Government that adopts bitcoin as currency, is saving it's self hundreds for millions of dollars in coining and engraving costs. For business, a virtual currency that has no "gate fee's" associated with the vendor receipt of funds.  Instead you have the consumer paying for the use of the virtual system at the time of receipt of the Bitcoin. Not to mention that a convenience store that accepts Bitcoin, will not be a target for robbers any longer. How could the businesses of the world over look the obvious value of Bitcoin. Lastly, unlike the dollar Bitcoin is volatile, it has  great potential to go up and down making it an investment vehicle. Something the US Dollar would never be good for.
  I grant you that Bitcoin does have the ability to make significant drops. However it's history shows a steady and continued pattern upwards. As more countries and businesses accept Bitcoin, the more it's value will grow, in spite of periodic sharp drops.  

[Betwrong]

The scientists are arguing whether the Universe will ultimately implode into one big black hole (so-called Big Crunch) or explode into nothingness (so-called Big Rip). The Big Rip essentially means that all the matter of the Universe including stars, atoms and elementary particles as well as spacetime itself will be torn apart by the expanding Universe in the future. As I see it, the Big Crunch in respect to Bitcoin would mean accumulating all bitcoins in a few or just one pair of hands, but this is not very likely to happen, so the Big Rip seems to be more possible as we see with the price sky-rocketing right now. Given the Bitcoin infinite divisibility, the Big Rip of Bitcoin would mean the price per 1 BTC shooting through the moon and farther into the depths of the Universe, thereby making Bitcoin and its 21 million coins dissolve completely in the financial spacetime...

So how likely is this, and what is your understanding of how things might unfold in this regard?

I dont think that if the price per 1 BTC will be shooting through the moon and farther we can call it a Big Rip for Bitcoin. Bitcoin will not be torn apart in that case. On the contrary, it will become stronger than ever before and the Bitcoin holders will enjoy that time very much. No one, not even an atom, will enjoy the Big Rip in the cosmological sense, because nothing will left, so it will be the end of everything. But for Bitcoin, the situation you described will be the beginning of its glory.

[VentMine]

Having all or most of the bitcoins in one or a few hands is very unlikely , I mean almost everyone at the moment is aiming to hodl for long term to become a millionaire in the future , without forgetting the fact that Its being currently used in both gambling industry and the Darknet .
With every increase in the bitcoin price , the chances that this happening are getting low as whoever is planning to get his hands in almost everything should be rich as hell.

Not only is it unlikely, but it makes no sense. If only a handful of people went out and bought all the bitcoin, it would reduce the utillity as a currency. It would also increase the pressure for people to register their wealth on other chains, alts etc. I wouldn't trust Bitcoin as a currency if I felt a few people controlled most of the wealth, I would look to alternate currencies.

[deisik]

It is no longer an argument the Universe is actually expanding faster and faster. As long as human consciousness does the same so will our progress in the material world. That includes Bitcoin or other virtual means of exchange will become more prolific. It is really a no brainer. A Government that adopts bitcoin as currency, is saving it's self hundreds for millions of dollars in coining and engraving costs. For business, a virtual currency that has no "gate fee's" associated with the vendor receipt of funds.  Instead you have the consumer paying for the use of the virtual system at the time of receipt of the Bitcoin. Not to mention that a convenience store that accepts Bitcoin, will not be a target for robbers any longer. How could the businesses of the world over look the obvious value of Bitcoin. Lastly, unlike the dollar Bitcoin is volatile, it has  great potential to go up and down making it an investment vehicle. Something the US Dollar would never be good for.
  I grant you that Bitcoin does have the ability to make significant drops. However it's history shows a steady and continued pattern upwards. As more countries and businesses accept Bitcoin, the more it's value will grow, in spite of periodic sharp drops

There are a few theories trying to explain the ultimate destiny of the Universe, and the concept of Big Rip is one of the most popular among cosmologists (and no, I'm not one of them)

I dont think that if the price per 1 BTC will be shooting through the moon and farther we can call it a Big Rip for Bitcoin. Bitcoin will not be torn apart in that case. On the contrary, it will become stronger than ever before and the Bitcoin holders will enjoy that time very much. No one, not even an atom, will enjoy the Big Rip in the cosmological sense, because nothing will left, so it will be the end of everything. But for Bitcoin, the situation you described will be the beginning of its glory.

The Bitcoin holders stage is what we are passing through right now (if we continue our analogy with the Universe). Black holes are Bitcoin holders that don't spend and will not spend a single satoshi until they are forced to do so by external forces in the final stages of the Bitcoin universe. These holders only accumulate bitcoins, thereby making the quantity of Bitcoins available to everyone ever smaller. This leads to the price increase which potentially has no limit. What about subatomic units of a single satoshi after Bitcoin becomes insanely scarce?

But it will all most likely end in a Big Rip

[Wind_FURY]

Whilst working out at the gym it came to me. I think I get what you are trying to say now. So what about this explanation. Let us say that Bitcoin indeed reached $1m per coin. Every Bitcoin holder will be rich and that will encourage them to spend their coins, thus achieving the Big Rip more quickly. A person who is holding BTC0.5 even will have enough to spend for his needs for a few years.

In the Bitcoin Big Rip scenario the Bitcoin Universe should have already expanded infinitely (well, almost). In this manner, any amount spent would only lead to further dissipation of bitcoins (entropy rising). In practice, it means that when someone wants to spend 0.5BTC (i.e. half a million dollars), it gets into many hands unless this guys buys, say, a house for the whole of his 0.5 BTC. But since folks don't buy homes every other day but spend a lot on minor things (read cheap things), eventually this expenditures will lead to more even distribution of coins...

That would ultimately amount to the heat death of the Bitcoin Universe and eventual Big Rip

Then in practice this will not be possible. Basing what we know about the history of different civilizations including ancient history and the economies behind them, there will always be a crunch following an expansion. This will be a cycle of crunches and expansions until civilizations finally fall and a new one takes its place. It is never sustainable. It is like the search for the perpetual motion machine.

[deisik]

Whilst working out at the gym it came to me. I think I get what you are trying to say now. So what about this explanation. Let us say that Bitcoin indeed reached $1m per coin. Every Bitcoin holder will be rich and that will encourage them to spend their coins, thus achieving the Big Rip more quickly. A person who is holding BTC0.5 even will have enough to spend for his needs for a few years.

In the Bitcoin Big Rip scenario the Bitcoin Universe should have already expanded infinitely (well, almost). In this manner, any amount spent would only lead to further dissipation of bitcoins (entropy rising). In practice, it means that when someone wants to spend 0.5BTC (i.e. half a million dollars), it gets into many hands unless this guys buys, say, a house for the whole of his 0.5 BTC. But since folks don't buy homes every other day but spend a lot on minor things (read cheap things), eventually this expenditures will lead to more even distribution of coins...

That would ultimately amount to the heat death of the Bitcoin Universe and eventual Big Rip

Then in practice this will not be possible. Basing what we know about the history of different civilizations including ancient history and the economies behind them, there will always be a crunch following an expansion. This will be a cycle of crunches and expansions until civilizations finally fall and a new one takes its place. It is never sustainable. It is like the search for the perpetual motion machine.

You refer to government money, be it fiat or gold (silver) coin. These governments ended with their money either been directly totally devalued (see Germany's Weimar Republic) as is the case with paper money or by heavily debasing their coins (i.e. by lowering the precious metal content of the specie). Bitcoin, on the other hand, doesn't belong to any government, and its issuance is limited only to 21M coins at that, so there is no way of deliberate debasing or devaluing it (as what governments would do when they start losing ground)...

In this way, the history is neither teacher nor source of reference here

[Przemax]

Its entertaining as hell how bitcoiners are bipolar in their psyche. Before the dump everyone was sure that bitcoin will bring a complete equality, or at least get us closer to that. Yet the same people were profiting from others. Everyone saw a bitcoin paradise, a better world where rich are saints.

After the dump its a story exactly the same like with bolshewik russia. Its not the system that is wrong. It cant be. Its the people that are wrong.

We should breed a homo bitcoinus and this man will drive us to the paradise.

Rofl. You people are seriously giving me a great entertainment.

Btw. Back to the topic. Why should everything goes into some destination. If there are any destination to anything in nature, its either coming back to the same stadium or its turn into an oxidated burned out state.

So bitcoin will be either 0 value or turn to burn out state. Noone actually think it can last forever can they?

[deisik]

Its entertaining as hell how bitcoiners are bipolar in their psyche. Before the dump everyone was sure that bitcoin will bring a complete equality, or at least get us closer to that. Yet the same people were profiting from others. Everyone saw a bitcoin paradise, a better world where rich are saints.

After the dump its a story exactly the same like with bolshewik russia. Its not the system that is wrong. It cant be. Its the people that are wrong.

We should breed a homo bitcoinus and this man will drive us to the paradise.

Rofl. You people are seriously giving me a great entertainment.

Btw. Back to the topic. Why should everything goes into some destination. If there are any destination to anything in nature, its either coming back to the same stadium or its turn into an oxidated burned out state.

So bitcoin will be either 0 value or turn to burn out state. Noone actually think it can last forever can they?

I don't need to run fast, I just need to run faster than you. In this way, if Bitcoin lasts longer than anyone lives, it can well be considered as eternal and perpetual for most practical purposes. Regarding bipolar disorders that many bitcoiners might be suffering, I for one always thought and continue to think of Bitcoin as a tool among many others which could potentially make my life better (so far so good). In fact, I am quite happy when Bitcoin goes up and as happy when it goes down. The only thing that gets me disappointed is when Bitcoin price gets stuck (as it is right now)...

But I know this is only temporarily, and the longer the stay the stronger the move will be in the end

[kryptqnick]

The idea of big crunch doesn't seem realistic at all. At least, if we consider individuals. If we consider nations (countries) then China and something else are likely to have nearly everything, don't you think? So, it is quite relative. As for the rip, why are you saying btc is infinitely divisible? I thought that you can't divide a satoshi and so it is finitely divisible and the big rip is thus finite as well.

[lionheart78]

The idea of big crunch doesn't seem realistic at all. At least, if we consider individuals. If we consider nations (countries) then China and something else are likely to have nearly everything, don't you think? So, it is quite relative. As for the rip, why are you saying btc is infinitely divisible? I thought that you can't divide a satoshi and so it is finitely divisible and the big rip is thus finite as well.

I think dividing satoshi depends on the code and the needs of the situation.  I also believe that changes in Bitcoin will be done in accordance to the adoption of people.  We have seen some modification on bitcoin to adjust to the current situation and needs of the network so dividing satoshi into smaller amount is possible if not today maybe in the future. 

As for the big crunch, i can say it is impossible to happen.  there are lots of people getting involve now and there will be much more in the future. 

[Wind_FURY]

Whilst working out at the gym it came to me. I think I get what you are trying to say now. So what about this explanation. Let us say that Bitcoin indeed reached $1m per coin. Every Bitcoin holder will be rich and that will encourage them to spend their coins, thus achieving the Big Rip more quickly. A person who is holding BTC0.5 even will have enough to spend for his needs for a few years.

In the Bitcoin Big Rip scenario the Bitcoin Universe should have already expanded infinitely (well, almost). In this manner, any amount spent would only lead to further dissipation of bitcoins (entropy rising). In practice, it means that when someone wants to spend 0.5BTC (i.e. half a million dollars), it gets into many hands unless this guys buys, say, a house for the whole of his 0.5 BTC. But since folks don't buy homes every other day but spend a lot on minor things (read cheap things), eventually this expenditures will lead to more even distribution of coins...

That would ultimately amount to the heat death of the Bitcoin Universe and eventual Big Rip

Then in practice this will not be possible. Basing what we know about the history of different civilizations including ancient history and the economies behind them, there will always be a crunch following an expansion. This will be a cycle of crunches and expansions until civilizations finally fall and a new one takes its place. It is never sustainable. It is like the search for the perpetual motion machine.

You refer to government money, be it fiat or gold (silver) coin. These governments ended with their money either been directly totally devalued (see Germany's Weimar Republic) as is the case with paper money or by heavily debasing their coins (i.e. by lowering the precious metal content of the specie). Bitcoin, on the other hand, doesn't belong to any government, and its issuance is limited only to 21M coins at that, so there is no way of deliberate debasing or devaluing it (as what governments would do when they start losing ground)...

In this way, the history is neither teacher nor source of reference here

I have to admit when it comes to Bitcoin there is no precedent to base our hypotheses and our thoughts on. But I still think an economy, any economy is not infinitely sustainable even if it is based on Bitcoin. Do you think the dark markets will live on for 1000 years barring any events that will shut down the internet?

[deisik]

Whilst working out at the gym it came to me. I think I get what you are trying to say now. So what about this explanation. Let us say that Bitcoin indeed reached $1m per coin. Every Bitcoin holder will be rich and that will encourage them to spend their coins, thus achieving the Big Rip more quickly. A person who is holding BTC0.5 even will have enough to spend for his needs for a few years.

In the Bitcoin Big Rip scenario the Bitcoin Universe should have already expanded infinitely (well, almost). In this manner, any amount spent would only lead to further dissipation of bitcoins (entropy rising). In practice, it means that when someone wants to spend 0.5BTC (i.e. half a million dollars), it gets into many hands unless this guys buys, say, a house for the whole of his 0.5 BTC. But since folks don't buy homes every other day but spend a lot on minor things (read cheap things), eventually this expenditures will lead to more even distribution of coins...

That would ultimately amount to the heat death of the Bitcoin Universe and eventual Big Rip

Then in practice this will not be possible. Basing what we know about the history of different civilizations including ancient history and the economies behind them, there will always be a crunch following an expansion. This will be a cycle of crunches and expansions until civilizations finally fall and a new one takes its place. It is never sustainable. It is like the search for the perpetual motion machine.

You refer to government money, be it fiat or gold (silver) coin. These governments ended with their money either been directly totally devalued (see Germany's Weimar Republic) as is the case with paper money or by heavily debasing their coins (i.e. by lowering the precious metal content of the specie). Bitcoin, on the other hand, doesn't belong to any government, and its issuance is limited only to 21M coins at that, so there is no way of deliberate debasing or devaluing it (as what governments would do when they start losing ground)...

In this way, the history is neither teacher nor source of reference here

I have to admit when it comes to Bitcoin there is no precedent to base our hypotheses and our thoughts on. But I still think an economy, any economy is not infinitely sustainable even if it is based on Bitcoin. Do you think the dark markets will live on for 1000 years barring any events that will shut down the internet?

Internet itself has been around only for 25 years (yes, I know that it all started in the early 1970s), and widespread for even less than that. So talking about 1000 years of Internet is like talking about Tausendjähriges Reich ("the Thousand-Year Reich") which in fact lasted only for some 13 years. On the other hand, the dark markets have been there as long as the state has been around and it prohibited something from free trade (which is always the case). So they are hardly going away even in a thousand years...

Provided there will still be something valuable to trade then, of course

[Jackido]

I think both options are possible, but a Big Rip like scenario seems more likely.

For a big crunch like scenario, that would need someone who has enough wealth and is also set out to destroy Bitcoin.
Even if someone like that doesn't buy 100% of all available Bitcoins (minus lost coins), if he buys a large enough majority of them, it would almost completely restrict the usage of Bitcoin.

A Big Rip like scenario is ofc the most likely, as you've explained above.

There will not be any big rip theory of bitcoin because bitcoin has got a big community behind, Bitcoin has no border and They consider bitcoin as a digital currency for purchasing, transferring and payment.  Bitcoin will be central digital currency in the near future.

[Wind_FURY]

Whilst working out at the gym it came to me. I think I get what you are trying to say now. So what about this explanation. Let us say that Bitcoin indeed reached $1m per coin. Every Bitcoin holder will be rich and that will encourage them to spend their coins, thus achieving the Big Rip more quickly. A person who is holding BTC0.5 even will have enough to spend for his needs for a few years.

In the Bitcoin Big Rip scenario the Bitcoin Universe should have already expanded infinitely (well, almost). In this manner, any amount spent would only lead to further dissipation of bitcoins (entropy rising). In practice, it means that when someone wants to spend 0.5BTC (i.e. half a million dollars), it gets into many hands unless this guys buys, say, a house for the whole of his 0.5 BTC. But since folks don't buy homes every other day but spend a lot on minor things (read cheap things), eventually this expenditures will lead to more even distribution of coins...

That would ultimately amount to the heat death of the Bitcoin Universe and eventual Big Rip

Then in practice this will not be possible. Basing what we know about the history of different civilizations including ancient history and the economies behind them, there will always be a crunch following an expansion. This will be a cycle of crunches and expansions until civilizations finally fall and a new one takes its place. It is never sustainable. It is like the search for the perpetual motion machine.

You refer to government money, be it fiat or gold (silver) coin. These governments ended with their money either been directly totally devalued (see Germany's Weimar Republic) as is the case with paper money or by heavily debasing their coins (i.e. by lowering the precious metal content of the specie). Bitcoin, on the other hand, doesn't belong to any government, and its issuance is limited only to 21M coins at that, so there is no way of deliberate debasing or devaluing it (as what governments would do when they start losing ground)...

In this way, the history is neither teacher nor source of reference here

I have to admit when it comes to Bitcoin there is no precedent to base our hypotheses and our thoughts on. But I still think an economy, any economy is not infinitely sustainable even if it is based on Bitcoin. Do you think the dark markets will live on for 1000 years barring any events that will shut down the internet?

Internet itself has been around only for 25 years (yes, I know that it all started in the early 1970s), and widespread for even less than that. So talking about 1000 years of Internet is like talking about Tausendjähriges Reich ("the Thousand-Year Reich") which in fact lasted only for some 13 years. On the other hand, the dark markets have been there as long as the state has been around and it prohibited something from free trade (which is always the case). So they are hardly going away even in a thousand years...

Provided there will still be something valuable to trade then, of course

I like where this is going. I could see the dark markets still being around for a long time as long as the government bans or prohibits something. I could also see the dark markets as making the buying and selling of illegal goods and services more efficient. Bitcoin in the middle of it all is the ideal currency to serve this efficiency. We are both the same in paper. But do you really believe it can happen and last a long time? If yes then Bitcoin at these prices is still really cheap.

[deisik]

The Big Rip scenario remains a possibility (as we have seen glimpses of it and smelled its traces), but we are still light years away from it. Volatility seems to be an opposing force paradoxically holding things together (so far)