The Big Rip theory of Bitcoin

[deisik]

The scientists are arguing whether the Universe will ultimately collapse into one huge badass black hole (so-called Big Crunch) or explode into nothingness (so-called Big Rip). The Big Rip event essentially means that all the matter of the Universe including stars, atoms and elementary particles as well as spacetime itself will be ripped apart by the expanding Universe in a distant future

The Big Crunch in respect to Bitcoin would mean accumulating all bitcoins in a few or just one pair of hands, but this is not very likely to happen, so the Big Rip seems to be more probable as we see with the price skyrocketing right now. Given the Bitcoin infinite divisibility, the Big Rip of Bitcoin would mean the price per 1 BTC shooting through the roof, moon and farther into the depths of the Universe, which would completely dissolve the coin and all its 21M units in the financial spacetime...

So how likely is this, and what is your understanding of how things might unfold in real life?

[OmegaStarScream]

Having all or most of the bitcoins in one or a few hands is very unlikely , I mean almost everyone at the moment is aiming to hodl for long term to become a millionaire in the future , without forgetting the fact that Its being currently used in both gambling industry and the Darknet .
With every increase in the bitcoin price , the chances that this happening are getting low as whoever is planning to get his hands in almost everything should be rich as hell.

[deisik]

Having all or most of the bitcoins in one or a few hands is very unlikely , I mean almost everyone at the moment is aiming to hodl for long term to become a millionaire in the future , without forgetting the fact that Its being currently used in both gambling industry and the Darknet .
With every increase in the bitcoin price , the chances that this happening are getting low as whoever is planning to get his hands in almost everything should be rich as hell.

That's the primary reason why I think the Big Rip of Bitcoin is not only theoretically possible but may be a likely event in the future. If people are firmly set to hold their bitcoins (which seems to be the case if we follow the price lead), this will lead to an ever diminishing number of bitcoins actually traded or used in monetary circulation (i.e. as a currency). Say, today only a few million bitcoins are traded (I don't really know what percentage is traded nowadays, so everyone is welcome to chime in on this), tomorrow only a few hundred thousands until a moment where there is no single Bitcoin present on all exchanges collectively, with millionth parts of satoshi being sold and bought...

If someone decides to cash out eventually, his stash (a minor black hole of sorts) will get quickly torn apart by millions of hands

[Roselop]

Having all or most of the bitcoins in one or a few hands is very unlikely , I mean almost everyone at the moment is aiming to hodl for long term to become a millionaire in the future , without forgetting the fact that Its being currently used in both gambling industry and the Darknet .
With every increase in the bitcoin price , the chances that this happening are getting low as whoever is planning to get his hands in almost everything should be rich as hell.

That's the primary reason why I think the Big Rip is not only possible but may be a likely event in the future. If people are firmly set to hold their bitcoins (which seems to be the case if we follow the price lead), this will lead to an ever diminishing number of bitcoins actually traded or used in monetary circulation (i.e. as a currency). Say, today only a few million bitcoins are traded (I don't really know what percentage is traded nowadays, so everyone is welcome to chime in), tomorrow only a few hundred thousands until a moment where there is no single Bitcoin present on all exchanges collectively, with millionth parts of satoshi being sold and bought...

If someone decides to cash out eventually, his stash will get quickly torn apart by millions of hands

That is lovely story, I must buy more bitcoins for storage. it will have a big sky rocket price into the mars.
yes, it's very funny, guy.

[audaciousbeing]

That's the primary reason why I think the Big Rip of Bitcoin is not only theoretically possible but may be a likely event in the future. If people are firmly set to hold their bitcoins (which seems to be the case if we follow the price lead), this will lead to an ever diminishing number of bitcoins actually traded or used in monetary circulation (i.e. as a currency). Say, today only a few million bitcoins are traded (I don't really know what percentage is traded nowadays, so everyone is welcome to chime in on this), tomorrow only a few hundred thousands until a moment where there is no single Bitcoin present on all exchanges collectively, with millionth parts of satoshi being sold and bought...

If someone decides to cash out eventually, his stash (a minor black hole of sorts) will get quickly torn apart by millions of hands

Based on your analysis in which I must commend which is based on fact and even from the look of it and the trend we are facing as at today, I say it is possible. However, based on the assumption forwarded which is the continuous increase in the price of Bitcoin, then a see much more value placed on 1 satoshi. On the other hand, no one can say that the increase in price will be forever sustained as there are factors that could mitigate against that happening among which include but not limited to a big hacking, government regulations etc... With this happening, then every of the projections will crumble.

[deisik]

That's the primary reason why I think the Big Rip of Bitcoin is not only theoretically possible but may be a likely event in the future. If people are firmly set to hold their bitcoins (which seems to be the case if we follow the price lead), this will lead to an ever diminishing number of bitcoins actually traded or used in monetary circulation (i.e. as a currency). Say, today only a few million bitcoins are traded (I don't really know what percentage is traded nowadays, so everyone is welcome to chime in on this), tomorrow only a few hundred thousands until a moment where there is no single Bitcoin present on all exchanges collectively, with millionth parts of satoshi being sold and bought...

If someone decides to cash out eventually, his stash (a minor black hole of sorts) will get quickly torn apart by millions of hands

Based on your analysis in which I must commend which is based on fact and even from the look of it and the trend we are facing as at today, I say it is possible. However, based on the assumption forwarded which is the continuous increase in the price of Bitcoin, then a see much more value placed on 1 satoshi. On the other hand, no one can say that the increase in price will be forever sustained as there are factors that could mitigate against that happening among which include but not limited to a big hacking, government regulations etc... With this happening, then every of the projections will crumble.

Indeed, there are a lot of things that might interfere with this hypothesis in practice, but I still think it would be interesting to consider this theory without external factors that would prevent the events from unfolding as I see them. For example, we should assume that Bitcoin is in fact infinitely divisible (I mean, purely technically). So the question would be whether Bitcoin will get torn apart into ever smaller scruples or it will ultimately reach a state of financial homeostasis...

I'm more inclined toward the Big Rip option personally, with a run-away subdivision into smaller units

[Huge Black Woman]

Dang, how's we supposed to ecscape the 'essplodin' universe?  That there is kinda depressin'.  S' fore as bitcoin go, no scientist an definitely no member of dis board got that clocked.  We jist gon' have ta wait'n see.  Imma gon' enjoy the run we on inna meantime, ain't you?

[deisik]

Dang, how's we supposed to ecscape the 'essplodin' universe?  That there is kinda depressin'.  S' fore as bitcoin go, no scientist an definitely no member of dis board got that clocked.  We jist gon' have ta wait'n see.  Imma gon' enjoy the run we on inna meantime, ain't you?

In fact, I'm a bit nervous already

The price rise is fine, but I'm waiting for a minor correction (in the range of a few percentages) to buy back what I have sold already. Nothing out of the ordinary to worry about so far, but if Bitcoin continues to rise this way, I may have to switch into the just storage mode. Which I wouldn't want to do since profits will then come only from the price increase itself without the usual premium of active trading

[OROBTC]

...

Interesting ideas here deisik!

Since BTC passed $950, I have not bought either, have been tempted to buy gold, but I managed to shake that off.  Been hodling.  I *might* buy some more this week, but it would be a small purchase.

I have a hunch that Bitcoin will not be around for too many years (say 20 or so).  Something else will come along IMO.  Then I suppose BTC would die a Big Rip...

[Wind_FURY]

The scientists are arguing whether the Universe will ultimately implode into one big black hole (so-called Big Crunch) or explode into nothingness (so-called Big Rip). The Big Rip essentially means that all the matter of the Universe including stars, atoms and elementary particles as well as spacetime itself will be torn apart by the expanding Universe in the future. As I see it, the Big Crunch in respect to Bitcoin would mean accumulating all bitcoins in a few or just one pair of hands, but this is not very likely to happen, so the Big Rip seems to be more possible as we see with the price sky-rocketing right now. Given the Bitcoin infinite divisibility, the Big Rip of Bitcoin would mean the price per 1 BTC shooting through the moon and farther into the depths of the Universe, thereby making Bitcoin and its 21 million coins dissolve completely in the financial spacetime...

So how likely is this, and what is your understanding of how things might unfold in this regard?

Interesting. How is a "sky rocketing" price related to the Big Rip of Bitcoin? Would it not encourage the people to hold on to their coins and avoid spending them? If yes then how can the Big Rip happen in such a scenario unless the coins are given away at almost free cost?

[Xester]

There will no big rip and it will not happen. Though bitcoins price is skyrocketing back to the moon bitcoins death will not be on the level of a bit rip but it will be buried six feet below the ground. The ultimate reason is the arrival of fiat virtual currency that is being planned through continuous and successive meeting by the government of China and another group somewhere in Vegas. So its no longer a big rip but a bit kill.

[deisik]

The scientists are arguing whether the Universe will ultimately implode into one big black hole (so-called Big Crunch) or explode into nothingness (so-called Big Rip). The Big Rip essentially means that all the matter of the Universe including stars, atoms and elementary particles as well as spacetime itself will be torn apart by the expanding Universe in the future. As I see it, the Big Crunch in respect to Bitcoin would mean accumulating all bitcoins in a few or just one pair of hands, but this is not very likely to happen, so the Big Rip seems to be more possible as we see with the price sky-rocketing right now. Given the Bitcoin infinite divisibility, the Big Rip of Bitcoin would mean the price per 1 BTC shooting through the moon and farther into the depths of the Universe, thereby making Bitcoin and its 21 million coins dissolve completely in the financial spacetime...

So how likely is this, and what is your understanding of how things might unfold in this regard?

Interesting. How is a "sky rocketing" price related to the Big Rip of Bitcoin? Would it not encourage the people to hold on to their coins and avoid spending them? If yes then how can the Big Rip happen in such a scenario unless the coins are given away at almost free cost?

That's the whole idea behind the Big Rip!

Hoarders holding on to their coins will make less coins participating in circulation (Bitcoin as a financial asset and currency), and the price can be however high. What about 1M dollars per bitcoin with a few hundred million bitcoin holders and only a few hundred bitcoins being freely traded across the world? If someone should decide to cash out his 1K stash of bitcoins, it will be bought up immediately by millions of greedy hands. Ultimately, it will cause all 21M bitcoins (minus lost bitcoins, of course) get distributed more or less evenly among the world population and then the Big Rip happens (run-away price with ever diminishing Bitcoin units)

[Elsada]

No, It must not happen at the present unless we are not living in the digital world.
I can say the big rip of traditional currency in near future. I have owned some bitcoins and I love it.
cheer up with high price.

[sportis]

No, It must not happen at the present unless we are not living in the digital world.
I can say the big rip of traditional currency in near future. I have owned some bitcoins and I love it.
cheer up with high price.

I agree with you. Everywhere in the world governments in cooperation with banks try to restrict paper money. Therefore I believe that in nearby future after the big-rip of paper money people will use credit/debit cards and web banking. After this transitional period people will use not only bitcoin but many cryptocurrencies in everyday transactions. People will have different wallets with bitcoin and alt coins to use according to their needs.

[mantra]

No, It must not happen at the present unless we are not living in the digital world.
I can say the big rip of traditional currency in near future. I have owned some bitcoins and I love it.
cheer up with high price.

I agree with you. Everywhere in the world governments in cooperation with banks try to restrict paper money. Therefore I believe that in nearby future after the big-rip of paper money people will use credit/debit cards and web banking. After this transitional period people will use not only bitcoin but many cryptocurrencies in everyday transactions. People will have different wallets with bitcoin and alt coins to use according to their needs.

all have the time, people used to exchange goods with other goods, later emerged the money, and I believe bitcoin will be a bright future

[Wind_FURY]

The scientists are arguing whether the Universe will ultimately implode into one big black hole (so-called Big Crunch) or explode into nothingness (so-called Big Rip). The Big Rip essentially means that all the matter of the Universe including stars, atoms and elementary particles as well as spacetime itself will be torn apart by the expanding Universe in the future. As I see it, the Big Crunch in respect to Bitcoin would mean accumulating all bitcoins in a few or just one pair of hands, but this is not very likely to happen, so the Big Rip seems to be more possible as we see with the price sky-rocketing right now. Given the Bitcoin infinite divisibility, the Big Rip of Bitcoin would mean the price per 1 BTC shooting through the moon and farther into the depths of the Universe, thereby making Bitcoin and its 21 million coins dissolve completely in the financial spacetime...

So how likely is this, and what is your understanding of how things might unfold in this regard?

Interesting. How is a "sky rocketing" price related to the Big Rip of Bitcoin? Would it not encourage the people to hold on to their coins and avoid spending them? If yes then how can the Big Rip happen in such a scenario unless the coins are given away at almost free cost?

That's the whole idea behind the Big Rip!

Hoarders holding on to their coins will make less coins participating in circulation (Bitcoin as a financial asset and currency), and the price can be however high. What about 1M dollars per bitcoin with a few hundred million bitcoin holders and only a few hundred bitcoins being freely traded across the world? If someone should decide to cash out his 1K stash of bitcoins, it will be bought up immediately by millions of greedy hands. Ultimately, it will cause all 21M bitcoins (minus lost bitcoins, of course) get distributed more or less evenly among the world population and then the Big Rip happens (run-away price with ever diminishing Bitcoin units)

That may happen in theory but we as humans tend to bw greedy and want more. Bitcoin will not change human nature, in fact it will validate it especially as Bitcoin's price surges higher and higher. Never have we seen the ideal scenario where wealth is evenly distributed to each one of us. Not even the communists have achieved that kind of equality.

[deisik]

That's the whole idea behind the Big Rip!

Hoarders holding on to their coins will make less coins participating in circulation (Bitcoin as a financial asset and currency), and the price can be however high. What about 1M dollars per bitcoin with a few hundred million bitcoin holders and only a few hundred bitcoins being freely traded across the world? If someone should decide to cash out his 1K stash of bitcoins, it will be bought up immediately by millions of greedy hands. Ultimately, it will cause all 21M bitcoins (minus lost bitcoins, of course) get distributed more or less evenly among the world population and then the Big Rip happens (run-away price with ever diminishing Bitcoin units)

That may happen in theory but we as humans tend to bw greedy and want more. Bitcoin will not change human nature, in fact it will validate it especially as Bitcoin's price surges higher and higher. Never have we seen the ideal scenario where wealth is evenly distributed to each one of us. Not even the communists have achieved that kind of equality.

The problem is that Bitcoin is not wealth itself

Even fiat money is not wealth. Basically, it is a tool for exchanging wealth, and if you have, say, 100T US dollars in your bank account or in paper dollars, for example, you created a machine for an atom to atom copying Benjamins (let's assume they don't have serial numbers imprinted), you won't be able to buy all the genuine wealth existing in the world. In fact, you won't be able to buy even major public companies that are being traded on exchanges, since no one will be going to sell you a controlling stake in a profitable company for whatever money. Russia has once tried to buy Opel with their US dollar reserves, you can search what's come off this

[Wind_FURY]

That's the whole idea behind the Big Rip!

Hoarders holding on to their coins will make less coins participating in circulation (Bitcoin as a financial asset and currency), and the price can be however high. What about 1M dollars per bitcoin with a few hundred million bitcoin holders and only a few hundred bitcoins being freely traded across the world? If someone should decide to cash out his 1K stash of bitcoins, it will be bought up immediately by millions of greedy hands. Ultimately, it will cause all 21M bitcoins (minus lost bitcoins, of course) get distributed more or less evenly among the world population and then the Big Rip happens (run-away price with ever diminishing Bitcoin units)

That may happen in theory but we as humans tend to bw greedy and want more. Bitcoin will not change human nature, in fact it will validate it especially as Bitcoin's price surges higher and higher. Never have we seen the ideal scenario where wealth is evenly distributed to each one of us. Not even the communists have achieved that kind of equality.

The problem is that Bitcoin is not wealth itself

But that is besides the point of the Bitcoin Big Rip theory. If everyone behaved rationally and were here to build a utopian society then yes, it can happen. All the Bitcoins will be distributed as widely as possible. But that goes against our nature and impulses as humans.

Even fiat money is not wealth. Basically, it is a tool for exchanging wealth, and if you have, say, 100T US dollars in your bank account or in paper dollars, for example, you created a machine for an atom to atom copying Benjamins (let's assume they don't have serial numbers imprinted), you won't be able to buy all the genuine wealth existing in the world. In fact, you won't be able to buy even major public companies that are being traded on exchanges, since no one will be going to sell you a controlling stake in a profitable company for whatever money. Russia has once tried to buy Opel with their US dollar reserves, you can search what's come off this

Interesting. I will research on that if I have the time later. That is why you are one of my favorite posters here in the forum. You have many interesting thoughts and ideas.

[eternalgloom]

I think both options are possible, but a Big Rip like scenario seems more likely.

For a big crunch like scenario, that would need someone who has enough wealth and is also set out to destroy Bitcoin.
Even if someone like that doesn't buy 100% of all available Bitcoins (minus lost coins), if he buys a large enough majority of them, it would almost completely restrict the usage of Bitcoin.

A Big Rip like scenario is ofc the most likely, as you've explained above.

[deisik]

That's the whole idea behind the Big Rip!

Hoarders holding on to their coins will make less coins participating in circulation (Bitcoin as a financial asset and currency), and the price can be however high. What about 1M dollars per bitcoin with a few hundred million bitcoin holders and only a few hundred bitcoins being freely traded across the world? If someone should decide to cash out his 1K stash of bitcoins, it will be bought up immediately by millions of greedy hands. Ultimately, it will cause all 21M bitcoins (minus lost bitcoins, of course) get distributed more or less evenly among the world population and then the Big Rip happens (run-away price with ever diminishing Bitcoin units)

That may happen in theory but we as humans tend to bw greedy and want more. Bitcoin will not change human nature, in fact it will validate it especially as Bitcoin's price surges higher and higher. Never have we seen the ideal scenario where wealth is evenly distributed to each one of us. Not even the communists have achieved that kind of equality.

The problem is that Bitcoin is not wealth itself

But that is besides the point of the Bitcoin Big Rip theory. If everyone behaved rationally and were here to build a utopian society then yes, it can happen. All the Bitcoins will be distributed as widely as possible. But that goes against our nature and impulses as humans

But it was not me who first mentioned wealth in respect to Bitcoin and the Bitcoin Big Rip scenario, right?

Nevertheless, since this thread massively employs analogies from nature, we could again look at what happens in nature. I refer to entropy. It is known that entropy of a closed system doesn't diminish. What does it tell us? If we draw an analogy between entropy and Bitcoin distribution, we should conclude that in due course (i.e. over an indefinitely long period of time), the Bitcoin distribution should become more uniform (heat death of the Universe), even though currently we see some people accumulating more bitcoins than others (entropy decreases locally by increasing it everywhere else). But even black holes, which emit nothing but gravitation (that would be early adopters and big whales not going to sell a single satoshi but only attracting obsessive attention to their wallets), are set to evaporate in the future. And that would be quite in line with the Bitcoin Big Rip scenario

Even fiat money is not wealth. Basically, it is a tool for exchanging wealth, and if you have, say, 100T US dollars in your bank account or in paper dollars, for example, you created a machine for an atom to atom copying Benjamins (let's assume they don't have serial numbers imprinted), you won't be able to buy all the genuine wealth existing in the world. In fact, you won't be able to buy even major public companies that are being traded on exchanges, since no one will be going to sell you a controlling stake in a profitable company for whatever money. Russia has once tried to buy Opel with their US dollar reserves, you can search what's come off this

Interesting. I will research on that if I have the time later. That is why you are one of my favorite posters here in the forum. You have many interesting thoughts and ideas

You are welcome