[FACTS] ANON Coins = Illegal

[Spoetnik]

It's simple, ANON Coins violate Anti-Money Laundering Laws in countries like the USA.

http://www.coindesk.com/localbitcoins-users-criminal-charges-florida/

That shows us a couple years back some guys were arrested by the FBI in a parking lot for selling Bitcoin.
Why ?
They sold over $10,000 worth of BTC with out proper ID and info etc.
(Which is why all the exchanges take your ID and have limits like they do)

So what does this mean ?

Your shitty ass little anon coin will never get major adoption.. EVER !

Enjoy being Bag Holders  

[dinofelis]

It's simple, ANON Coins violate Anti-Money Laundering Laws in countries like the USA.

The possession of gold and silver and cash must then also violate those laws.  Hell, the possession of a good idea must be illegal in that country !  After all, that good idea is worth a lot of money, and it doesn't tell where it comes from !  If everything that is worth something, and is not intrinsically traceable to where it came from, is illegal in that country, then that's quite a non-free country, isn't it !
About time to take up your civil responsibilities, and fight such oppressive regime, no ?

On the other hand, if you want to be a 100% fully law abiding citizen, that tries to please the state and the law, stay out of crypto, and use their fiat.  Crypto has nothing to offer to you.  You even see that a totally non-anon and fully transparant coin like bitcoin has led people into trouble.  So you should change your phrase: "it is simple, crypto violates the anti-money laundering laws".  It is BTW exactly to fight those laws that crypto was invented.  Because those laws take away a fundamental freedom: the freedom to trade.

[Spoetnik]

Tell it to the FBI when you are in hand-cuffs Dino.. 

Check out the Coindesk story sweet-heart

[expressbtc07]

Europe is worse. Is making anything encrypted illegal. This will be interesting, no?

[dinofelis]

Tell it to the FBI when you are in hand-cuffs Dino..  

Check out the Coindesk story sweet-heart

Why are you interested in crypto, Spoetnik ?  What drives your interest ?  (apart from greed, perhaps...)

[dinofelis]

Europe is worse. Is making anything encrypted illegal. This will be interesting, no?

This is not the case yet.  But there will be a world-wide fight by the state-maffias to try to keep their citizens as their slaves, and they start to see the eminent danger that cryptography in general presents for their power.  Cryptography is an ultimate freedom tool, and states don't like freedom (states being based upon slavery).  We'll see how this turns out.  Freedom won the first crypto war, but the second one will be harder, with much more stupid people than 30 years ago.

[Come-from-Beyond]

It's simple, ANON Coins violate Anti-Money Laundering Laws in countries like the USA.

http://www.coindesk.com/localbitcoins-users-criminal-charges-florida/

Just 2 questions:

- Where did you get your Master of Jurisprudence degree?
- Was it legal advice?

[NeuroticFish]

Most anon coins are no more anonymous than any paper money.
I would follow your logic and also make US Dollar illegal. Only the money in banks should be legal, because that can clearly be traced. Right?

What side are you on, Spoetnik?

[obit33]

Spoetnik, dude, stop making a fool of yourself...

you got totally slaughtered by Dino in this topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1737902.msg17462080#msg17462080
your arguments are a total logic fail...

so what do you do: you just open a new topic with a different (although again very flawed) argumentation to bash anon coins (monero)...


just give it a rest now before losing all credibility...


best regards

[btcxyzzz]

So what does this mean ?

It means you have poltron mentality and you're probably very stupid.

[NUFCrichard]

It's simple, ANON Coins violate Anti-Money Laundering Laws in countries like the USA.

The possession of gold and silver and cash must then also violate those laws.  Hell, the possession of a good idea must be illegal in that country !  After all, that good idea is worth a lot of money, and it doesn't tell where it comes from !  If everything that is worth something, and is not intrinsically traceable to where it came from, is illegal in that country, then that's quite a non-free country, isn't it !
About time to take up your civil responsibilities, and fight such oppressive regime, no ?

On the other hand, if you want to be a 100% fully law abiding citizen, that tries to please the state and the law, stay out of crypto, and use their fiat.  Crypto has nothing to offer to you.  You even see that a totally non-anon and fully transparant coin like bitcoin has led people into trouble.  So you should change your phrase: "it is simple, crypto violates the anti-money laundering laws".  It is BTW exactly to fight those laws that crypto was invented.  Because those laws take away a fundamental freedom: the freedom to trade.

I don't really agree with the premise that anonymous coins are automatically illegal, exchanges can still have KYC and trade limits for buying anonymous coins, then the inter-trade of the coins would be anonymous, just not the entrance and exit points from fiat.

Gold and silver are pretty difficult to buy from a respectable place without providing any ID. The same is true of cash. All can be traded anonymously after they have been bought, just like Monero/Dash.

[Spoetnik]

Spoetnik, dude, stop making a fool of yourself...

you got totally slaughtered by Dino in this topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1737902.msg17462080#msg17462080
your arguments are a total logic fail...

so what do you do: you just open a new topic with a different (although again very flawed) argumentation to bash anon coins (monero)...


just give it a rest now before losing all credibility...


best regards

No i put that idiot in his place a million times over again.. and many times before that topic.
All he does is spew stupid bullshit here non stop.
I say Most times people are greedy and his grandiose retort is... uhh.. uhh.. not always.
He loiters around trying to be a contrarian and play the exception to the rule card.
As though it invalidates the rule itself.

Sorry but you dumb fucks are the ones who got decimated.

You snotty kidiot brats think your smart ?
Get Coinbase and Cryptsy and Poloniex over to this topic and ask them why they collected your picture ID and tracked your trades.

When they say because of Anti-Money Laundering laws precisely like in the FBI arrest story i posted here you will see a pattern.

Shitcoins were never legalized.
Anti-Money laundering laws are very much in fact real.
There is no law saying simply because your counting your ROI's on Poloniex that Zcash is all of a sudden "Legal"

You twats KNOW what i am saying is true your just playing little games about it to pad the market price of your Anon based shitcoin bags.
You are scared because my so called "FUD" is utterly Diabolical.
My FUD in the last year made your shitcoins worth 0 and BTC worth a grand.
Altcoins are dead and in large part because i have been here pounding them into the dirt with my infinite Crypto-Wisdom.

Don't pretend your me douche bags.. there is one Spoetnik Investards.
I predicted Exchanges would collect your ID and look around they are doing it now aren't they dumb fucks ?

You challenge my Crypto-Cred ? LOL that is rich hahaha sit down and shut the fuck up Kidiots, you know fuck all.

Truth hurts huh scammy greedy ROI counting brats ?
Awww i feel so sorry for you and your precious little ROI's.
Reality Check brats..
I am more of a crypto supporter than all of you sad pathetic douche nozzles combined.

[Febo]

It's simple, ANON Coins violate Anti-Money Laundering Laws in countries like the USA.

http://www.coindesk.com/localbitcoins-users-criminal-charges-florida/

That shows us a couple years back some guys were arrested by the FBI in a parking lot for selling Bitcoin.
Why ?
They sold over $10,000 worth of BTC with out proper ID and info etc.
(Which is why all the exchanges take your ID and have limits like they do)

So what does this mean ?

Your shitty ass little anon coin will never get major adoption.. EVER !

Enjoy being Bag Holders  

It just shows why $ is so useless. It belongs to USA government. It is not really yours and they can take it from you and say you misused it.  This guy should not go sell his precious bitcoins for USA Government USD. Is that simple. Just use it for whatever you need. That is why Bitcoins are there.

And Bitcoins are not much anon sadly

[dinofelis]

I don't really agree with the premise that anonymous coins are automatically illegal, exchanges can still have KYC and trade limits for buying anonymous coins, then the inter-trade of the coins would be anonymous, just not the entrance and exit points from fiat.

Gold and silver are pretty difficult to buy from a respectable place without providing any ID. The same is true of cash. All can be traded anonymously after they have been bought, just like Monero/Dash.

That was indeed my point. Spoetnik claimed that the very act of possessing anon coins, or probably, even running a node or writing code for it, is illegal.  If ever that becomes true, then we live in a kind of North Korea.  I do not exclude this, but we're not there yet.

That in order to deal legally with buying anon coins, exchanges require ID, is nothing special.  That doesn't render the possession and transmission of said coins illegal.

And in fact, from the strictly law enforcement and taxation viewpoint, that's in fact good enough, as long as no closed economy is formed with crypto.  The hard part is in fact not, as Spoetnik thinks, on the buyer side.  The hard part is the cashing out on the seller side.

Imagine you run a dark market, and you earn a lot of monero.  Now, one day you decide you have made enough, say, 500 000 XMR, you quit, and you stop your dark market thing.  As long as LE didn't catch your dark market when doing your thing, you're pretty OK.  3 years later, you decide that you want to live off your earnings from your dark market days.   If the world is still mainly running on fiat, and chances are that it will be in 3 years from now, how are you going to buy a Porsche with your monero (assuming similar market price as today) ?  You can go to your car dealer, and ask him if he accepts monero.  If he does, great.  But if he doesn't ?  You need to get fiat.
And that's where it hurts.  Of course, the day that you are going to exchange 10 000 XMR to get enough $$ for your Porsche, this is in the clear, because on an exchange, and from your exchange to your bank account.

However, this may change if the crypto economy gets more closed.  But there are not much signs of it right now.

[dinofelis]

I am more of a crypto supporter than all of you sad pathetic douche nozzles combined.

Why are you a crypto supporter ?
I already asked, didn't get an answer.  What is your drive to be a crypto supporter (apart from greed and the hope to rip off someone else) ?  No crypto is "legal" in the way you mean it.  So why do you support it, if you think that doing things that are not legal are "problematic" ?

[dinofelis]

Most anon coins are no more anonymous than any paper money.
I would follow your logic and also make US Dollar illegal. Only the money in banks should be legal, because that can clearly be traced. Right?

What side are you on, Spoetnik?

Indeed.  My question too.  How can that guy be interested in crypto, if the only thing he considers allowed is "legal tender" ?  What is he doing here then ?

[Spoetnik]

Money is useless Febo ?

Wrong.
It (FIAT) is infinitely more usefully than any Crypto coin. (because it's regulated and backed by the Fed reserve etc)
After all it is in fact what makes the world go around.
Unlike Shitcoins used for ROI's on Polo..

And guess what ? The "ole diversion" retort won't MAKE MONERO GREAT AGAIN.

Saying some other thing has issues does not validate the claims of some shitcoin.
There is laws and you are all following them whether you like it or not or you are aware of it or not.
Those laws say Monero is illegal.

In the future there will be growing problems with crypto currencies violating existing laws.
Such as the example i provided from 2013.

This is not one of them things where you get to show up at Bitcointalk and talk a bunch of shit to smooth it over.
Sorry kids life does not work that way.

Your silly fantasy idealism does not keep cuff's off your wrists.
It will not stop Poloniex from ratting you out to the cops.
It will not stop the IRS from kicking your door in either when you don't claim your shitcoin Polo ROI's.

All you snot nose little brats need to grow the fuck up.
Nothing i said was false.

It is what it is..

You little suck-holes spewing deceitful bullshit here 24/7 are just *trying* to perpetuate this little facade that some fucking lame little ANON coin is going to get mass adoption "one day".

You guys are full of shit in living in a fantasy world.
A world made up of centralized govt compliant exchanges that rat your ass's out.
While you sell Monero merch with Hoodies with "Secure, Private and Untraceable" printed on them.

Al Capone thought he was such a little bad ass too.. pay your ROI Tax's Shill's ?  
What happens when you get an audit and your ANON coin and the mechanisms you used with it are private ?
Tax evasion charges ?

You guys are idiots for *trying* to build a system that evades all financial law.

Good luck with that, let me know how that works out for ya  

..when you get arrested make sure to give them a link to your little shitcoin rabble you posted here.

PS:
I see the little Monero squad showed here LOL
4 comments posted simultaneously from the usual suspects..
I can PWN all you little clowns at once with both hands tied behind my back.  

PPS:
I don't have to answer your insulting questions about what i am doing here either.
Blow me.
Your diversion tactic is transparent and pathetic.
Your little game of attacking Spoetnik does not make your shitcoin legit Investards.

..keep posting your diversionary noise and trolling  

[dinofelis]

BTW, as long as crypto is not illegal (in the sense that the very fact of having something to do with crypto will land you in jail), there will be legally allowed economic acts, and (unfortunately) a lot of illegal economic acts.  Even better, there are a lot of economically legal acts which remain legal as long as you declare them.
Now, you can do all that with an anon coin such as monero.  You can do your honest tax declaration, including your crypto business.  You can pay taxes as it is due on all your earnings in crypto.  As long as you don't buy stuff that is illegal, and you don't get into commercial activities you are not allowed to do so (as I said, this is unfortunate, because it is a fundamental liberty that is taken away, but you can accept that and live by it), there's nothing wrong with using anon crypto.

If ever you are interrogated concerning your declarations, you can, with your view key, PROVE what you did.  You can show law enforcement, or tax collectors, if they ask you, what you did.  Like you can explain using a bank account.  But at least, anon coins have the advantage that, apart from law enforcement or tax collectors, nobody else can put their nose into your business if you don't show them.

The fact of engaging into acts that are illegal or not, has nothing to do with the fact that you have total control over the privacy of certain acts, privacy you can lift if you desire to do so, to prove the legality of your activity.

[dinofelis]

Money is useless Febo ?

Wrong.
It (FIAT) is infinitely more usefully than any Crypto coin. (because it's regulated and backed by the Fed reserve etc)
After all it is in fact what makes the world go around.
Unlike Shitcoins used for ROI's on Polo..

And guess what ? The "ole diversion" retort won't MAKE MONERO GREAT AGAIN.

Saying some other thing has issues does not validate the claims of some shitcoin.
There is laws and you are all following them whether you like it or not or you are aware of it or not.
Those laws say Monero is illegal.

Bitcoin is then illegal too.  What are you doing in crypto ?

And why are the directors of most exchanges not arrested on the spot, as they are dealing in illegal activities ?
You mean that Polo, Bittrex, Kraken ... are dark markets that are out and open in the blue and nobody is bothering them ?

Oh, I see: they are the FBI running them to capture all the crooks daring to have a monero wallet or a bitcoin wallet ?

[Spoetnik]

It's funny watching you guys flounder splashing in the water, drowning.. scared & desperate trying everything you can in vain.

ohhhh but but but Spoetnik FIAT is evil.

But but Spoetnik what about Bitcoin ?   HAHHAHAHHA

PS:
what am i doing here ?
Posting stories from Coidnesk
You ?
Counting your fucking ROI's on Polo you fucking worthless fucking leeches. ?
You wanna go there with me scumbags ? L O L