Isn't Islam a religion of hate and violence, not peace and love?

[mOgliE]

Don't you love it how Spendulus talks and talks and talks until he gets cornered by facts, dates and history?
And then suddenly he stops talking and answer only to other people and question xD

I tried to discuss with him loooooong time ago.
Then I understood it's completely useless. You can't discuss with a fanatic and that's exactly what Spendulus is, a fanatic who will never change any of his opinions even when confronted to reality and facts 

[Spoderman]

When India and Pakistan where partition it was the muslims that caused all the trouble. Gangs would attack hindu villages with swords and axes killing everyone. These people have been a problem for a very long time. I think its time to get rid of this threat once and for all.

[BADecker]

There are 3 Islams:
1. The one the Muslim people live in their everyday lives;
2. The one the Muslim clerics try to explain to the Muslim people (but they can't, because it is too convoluted);
3. The real one, the one that ISIS practices.

[Spendulus]

No, Islam terrorism was around before.  How about the 400+ terrorist bombings that Yassir Arafat was involved in?

arafat was trying to reclaim a bit of land that had been taken from his people unjustly. he had have more in common with eta/ira than the current crop of muslim terrorists who kill indiscriminately. give the palestinians their land and they'll go away.

Really?

Over a dozen times people tried to negotiate a settlement, every time he backed out.  He was responsible for over 400 terrorist acts.

Who says this is true?  "give the xyz their land and they'll go away."

Maybe it is, maybe it is not.

[protokol]

......
Good post, yes at the moment it seems to be mostly muslims who are performing despicable acts such as suicide bombing and terrorism. But you rightly say that the West have been doing similar "terrorism" for years, and not only against Middle Eastern countries (anyone remember the IRA bombings?)

And many hundreds of years ago, it was the Christians who were indiscriminately killing during the Crusades.

An important point to make is that this concept of "martyrism" and suicide bombing is an extremely new phenomenon - it only started in the second half of the 20th century, in part due to Western influences on Middle Eastern government. ......

Almost none of what you wrote is relevant to the situation today.  Islam owns suicide bomber whackjobs, period.  There's no rationalizing about how somehow that's the fault of "the west."  It's not.  It's what they do.  They blow themselves up, often with NO clear purpose or goal.  

It's really quite laughable that you'd try to shrug it off.  Or blame it on things that have zero relation to it.

You misunderstand, I'm not shrugging it off by any means. I think it's a despicable and cowardly ideology, and I'm not trying to put the blame on anyone. I'm merely stating that certain actions by the west (specifically the USA) may well have contributed to the radical Islamic uprising that we see today.

My point was also that it is a common misconception that radical islamic attacks, especially suicide bombings are some sort of medieval ideology.

Suicide bombings are a very new phenomenon, I think the first instance where we see these types of attacks en masse, are in the 1980s during the alliance of Hafez al-Assad and Ruhollah Khomeini (who was the leader of Iran after the Shah was overthrown in the revolution). They used this new form of suicide attacks to force American troops from Lebanon.

And it is important to note how advanced the Islamic world was in the "Golden Age" (between the 8th and 13th centuries), because it shows that it isn't necessarily the muslim religion or the teachings of the Quran that are the driving force behind the radicalism we see today. At this period in history the Islamic world was seeking knowledge, and developing and translating mathematics, philosophy and science in general. This is in stark contrast to the attitudes we see today from the radical islamists.

It's no-ones fault (apart from the actual terrorists) that this is happening, per se, I just think it's short sighted to put it all down to "the Quran is bad and teaches muslims to kill infidels" (which is what many people believe).

Again, I'm not blaming anyone or shrugging anything off - I'm just commenting that it is an extremely complicated situation that has many factors which may or may not have caused it, and to just blame "Islam" seems naive. I think all religion is bullshit, for the record.

[Sithara007]

There are 3 Islams:
1. The one the Muslim people live in their everyday lives;
2. The one the Muslim clerics try to explain to the Muslim people (but they can't, because it is too convoluted);
3. The real one, the one that ISIS practices.

#1 is complex. Because the daily life of a Muslim differs from country to country. The daily life of a Muslim in Sudan is different from that in Saudi Arabia or Qatar. But there are certain forces which unify them, such as hatred for the infidels, fear of females.etc.

[HabBear]

That's interesting. Yeah, perhaps you're right. It's happening but not on CNN. If true, that would be so unfortunate. I think it would be a HUGE story. It would be such a benefit to the world, uniting the world against these people who pervert this religion.

I haven't seen any outcry from the religion...if you have, share it with me.

[...]
We NEVER hear an Imam denouncing the acts and reaffirming to the world that the religion is one of peace. That fact is one to be explored and discussed further.

Yeah that's because immams/muslims denouncing acts of terrorism don't make a good news story.

There has been many protests by muslims agianst the despicable terrorism that ISIS and other inflict on the world, but it doesn't get reported because it doesn't fit the agenda of most mainstream news outlets. Do little digging and you'll find that it does happen, and quite regularly.

I've personally seen a group of well over a thousand muslims protesting in the street against this sort of hatred, and I don't even live in a very big city.

[canah17]

The thread "Kill Muslims" was started by a Muslim with a provocative title. 

The thread "Hate Muslims" was started by a Muslim with a provocative title.

Then people can reply "Oh my gosh NO!" to these straw man arguments.

I am tired of the manipulation and lying.

Islam owns the entire concept and practice of suicide bombing.

Islam owns over 95% of the terrorist activities.

Discuss.

Wow! that percentage of terrorist is very high >.< now i believe in you dude.. I don't have an idea that they practice suicide bombing damn.. that's very savage then that terrorist activity why are they doing that? recently people are living peacefully more than they do then they want to start war from other countries how stupid they are to be a terrorist they don't even have the technologies to fight with the highly equip countries and for the record Islam is just a weak they really know how to trigger a country if they want war they will go and make war not terrorist one's country that just weak and stupid they think they are strong but i know they will be consume by some country that had enough of the terrorism i wish to end them all with one strike! sorry for the bad english and manners have a good day to you

[protokol]

That's interesting. Yeah, perhaps you're right. It's happening but not on CNN. If true, that would be so unfortunate. I think it would be a HUGE story. It would be such a benefit to the world, uniting the world against these people who pervert this religion.

I haven't seen any outcry from the religion...if you have, share it with me.

[...]
We NEVER hear an Imam denouncing the acts and reaffirming to the world that the religion is one of peace. That fact is one to be explored and discussed further.

Yeah that's because immams/muslims denouncing acts of terrorism don't make a good news story.

There has been many protests by muslims agianst the despicable terrorism that ISIS and other inflict on the world, but it doesn't get reported because it doesn't fit the agenda of most mainstream news outlets. Do little digging and you'll find that it does happen, and quite regularly.

I've personally seen a group of well over a thousand muslims protesting in the street against this sort of hatred, and I don't even live in a very big city.

This is just one story from a week ago: https://www.rt.com/news/372610-afghanistan-thousands-protest-isis/

10 minutes of googling will find many more sources of similar protests. Again, fuck the terrorists for their cowardly acts, but don't think that all muslims are bad people that agree with the killing of innocent people.

[Xester]

How many are the muslim population in the world. There are millions of them and not even 50% are bad people. Its the same with americans how many are the population but you cannot tell that that all Americans are murderers just because thousands of them massacred the American Indians. My point is do not generalize everything. The truth remains the same, we are all humans, and as humans there are good and bad people and that applies to all.

[bitcoinboy12]

How many are the muslim population in the world. There are millions of them and not even 50% are bad people. Its the same with americans how many are the population but you cannot tell that that all Americans are murderers just because thousands of them massacred the American Indians. My point is do not generalize everything. The truth remains the same, we are all humans, and as humans there are good and bad people and that applies to all.

Yes I agree with this. But I guess it really just so happens that those who are being organized into a Terrorist community really just comes from Muslim countries. And we can't really take this against them. It really not as if it's their fault.

[Spendulus]

......
Good post, yes at the moment it seems to be mostly muslims who are performing despicable acts such as suicide bombing and terrorism. But you rightly say that the West have been doing similar "terrorism" for years, and not only against Middle Eastern countries (anyone remember the IRA bombings?)

And many hundreds of years ago, it was the Christians who were indiscriminately killing during the Crusades.

An important point to make is that this concept of "martyrism" and suicide bombing is an extremely new phenomenon - it only started in the second half of the 20th century, in part due to Western influences on Middle Eastern government. ......

Almost none of what you wrote is relevant to the situation today.  Islam owns suicide bomber whackjobs, period.  There's no rationalizing about how somehow that's the fault of "the west."  It's not.  It's what they do.  They blow themselves up, often with NO clear purpose or goal.  

It's really quite laughable that you'd try to shrug it off.  Or blame it on things that have zero relation to it.

You misunderstand, I'm not shrugging it off by any means. I think it's a despicable and cowardly ideology, and I'm not trying to put the blame on anyone. I'm merely stating that certain actions by the west (specifically the USA) may well have contributed to the radical Islamic uprising that we see today.

My point was also that it is a common misconception that radical islamic attacks, especially suicide bombings are some sort of medieval ideology.

Suicide bombings are a very new phenomenon, I think the first instance where we see these types of attacks en masse, are in the 1980s during the alliance of Hafez al-Assad and Ruhollah Khomeini (who was the leader of Iran after the Shah was overthrown in the revolution). They used this new form of suicide attacks to force American troops from Lebanon.

And it is important to note how advanced the Islamic world was in the "Golden Age" (between the 8th and 13th centuries), because it shows that it isn't necessarily the muslim religion or the teachings of the Quran that are the driving force behind the radicalism we see today. At this period in history the Islamic world was seeking knowledge, and developing and translating mathematics, philosophy and science in general. This is in stark contrast to the attitudes we see today from the radical islamists.

It's no-ones fault (apart from the actual terrorists) that this is happening, per se, I just think it's short sighted to put it all down to "the Quran is bad and teaches muslims to kill infidels" (which is what many people believe).

Again, I'm not blaming anyone or shrugging anything off - I'm just commenting that it is an extremely complicated situation that has many factors which may or may not have caused it, and to just blame "Islam" seems naive. I think all religion is bullshit, for the record.

Interesting.  We share many views, although they diverse from similar premises.

For example, I agree either to just blame (or not blame) Islam is naive.   But similarly one cannot just throw some historical events up in the air (Golden Age, Crusades, whatever) and shout "See!  what about THAT?  That proves that..."

No, that does not prove anything.  To actually draw cause and effect even in part takes some historical analysis and is not an easy job.  Hence in many cases old historical events may simply be left out as not relevant to current.

For example, we can simply not that guys saying they are Islamic, then shouting "Allah Akbar" as they explode themselves and everyone around them, are Islamic terrorists and in the absence of any note or definitive message as to the specific reasons for their actions, we can state they are doing it as an act of Islamic Jihad related to the stated intentions of Islam to take over the world.

Pretty simple.  I think it's fair what I said.  If they left a note as to some political or war issue or retaliation for xyz, then that's what we accept as cause.  If not, it is as I said.

[valta4065]

You misunderstand, I'm not shrugging it off by any means. I think it's a despicable and cowardly ideology, and I'm not trying to put the blame on anyone. I'm merely stating that certain actions by the west (specifically the USA) may well have contributed to the radical Islamic uprising that we see today.

My point was also that it is a common misconception that radical islamic attacks, especially suicide bombings are some sort of medieval ideology.

Suicide bombings are a very new phenomenon, I think the first instance where we see these types of attacks en masse, are in the 1980s during the alliance of Hafez al-Assad and Ruhollah Khomeini (who was the leader of Iran after the Shah was overthrown in the revolution). They used this new form of suicide attacks to force American troops from Lebanon.

And it is important to note how advanced the Islamic world was in the "Golden Age" (between the 8th and 13th centuries), because it shows that it isn't necessarily the muslim religion or the teachings of the Quran that are the driving force behind the radicalism we see today. At this period in history the Islamic world was seeking knowledge, and developing and translating mathematics, philosophy and science in general. This is in stark contrast to the attitudes we see today from the radical islamists.

It's no-ones fault (apart from the actual terrorists) that this is happening, per se, I just think it's short sighted to put it all down to "the Quran is bad and teaches muslims to kill infidels" (which is what many people believe).

Again, I'm not blaming anyone or shrugging anything off - I'm just commenting that it is an extremely complicated situation that has many factors which may or may not have caused it, and to just blame "Islam" seems naive. I think all religion is bullshit, for the record.

Interesting.  We share many views, although they diverse from similar premises.

For example, I agree either to just blame (or not blame) Islam is naive.   But similarly one cannot just throw some historical events up in the air (Golden Age, Crusades, whatever) and shout "See!  what about THAT?  That proves that..."

No, that does not prove anything.  To actually draw cause and effect even in part takes some historical analysis and is not an easy job.  Hence in many cases old historical events may simply be left out as not relevant to current.

For example, we can simply not that guys saying they are Islamic, then shouting "Allah Akbar" as they explode themselves and everyone around them, are Islamic terrorists and in the absence of any note or definitive message as to the specific reasons for their actions, we can state they are doing it as an act of Islamic Jihad related to the stated intentions of Islam to take over the world.

Pretty simple.  I think it's fair what I said.  If they left a note as to some political or war issue or retaliation for xyz, then that's what we accept as cause.  If not, it is as I said.

Spenduluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus?

Funny how you continue being active on the thread but stopped answering my argument?

What does it mean?
That maybe I was not so wrong talking about THE MASSIVE RESPONSIBILITY of Western countries?

oooooooooh no. That can't be it. Must be Islam only.

Yeah! Let's all burn and kill all Muslims! Islam is responsible for everything definitely!!!  

[valta4065]

You misunderstand, I'm not shrugging it off by any means. I think it's a despicable and cowardly ideology, and I'm not trying to put the blame on anyone. I'm merely stating that certain actions by the west (specifically the USA) may well have contributed to the radical Islamic uprising that we see today.

My point was also that it is a common misconception that radical islamic attacks, especially suicide bombings are some sort of medieval ideology.

Suicide bombings are a very new phenomenon, I think the first instance where we see these types of attacks en masse, are in the 1980s during the alliance of Hafez al-Assad and Ruhollah Khomeini (who was the leader of Iran after the Shah was overthrown in the revolution). They used this new form of suicide attacks to force American troops from Lebanon.

And it is important to note how advanced the Islamic world was in the "Golden Age" (between the 8th and 13th centuries), because it shows that it isn't necessarily the muslim religion or the teachings of the Quran that are the driving force behind the radicalism we see today. At this period in history the Islamic world was seeking knowledge, and developing and translating mathematics, philosophy and science in general. This is in stark contrast to the attitudes we see today from the radical islamists.

It's no-ones fault (apart from the actual terrorists) that this is happening, per se, I just think it's short sighted to put it all down to "the Quran is bad and teaches muslims to kill infidels" (which is what many people believe).

Again, I'm not blaming anyone or shrugging anything off - I'm just commenting that it is an extremely complicated situation that has many factors which may or may not have caused it, and to just blame "Islam" seems naive. I think all religion is bullshit, for the record.

Lol.

No-ones fault.

Not like the terrorists are mainly all from poor and enslaved countries, without any education because all the institution were destroyed by war.

So you're telling me that if country A destabilizes country B, kills dozens of thousands of civilians of country B, destroy entire cities of country B, and then a bunch of terrorists emerge from country B to attack country A. If all that happens country A is not responsible?

Well great to know!

[markj113]

I don't have anything against muslims themselves. My husband's mother married a Muslim and he is a very nice guy, a lot better than most of people in my country (at least because he doesn't drink and we have a problem with drinking in my country since a bottle of vodka costs 1.5$). So, let's rather speak about the intentions of religion. I read 1/2 of Quran (in translation, so for Muslims it is not really Quran) and watched a few documentaries. It is indeed a violent religion. But so is judaism and christianity. It all depends on the people and how they see it. Just think about the Crusades being done for Christianity.

Thats around 750 years ago.

The problem is muslims are acting like its the dark ages in today.

[saiha]

Religion of what?

Religion of terrorists.

[mainpmf]

I don't have anything against muslims themselves. My husband's mother married a Muslim and he is a very nice guy, a lot better than most of people in my country (at least because he doesn't drink and we have a problem with drinking in my country since a bottle of vodka costs 1.5$). So, let's rather speak about the intentions of religion. I read 1/2 of Quran (in translation, so for Muslims it is not really Quran) and watched a few documentaries. It is indeed a violent religion. But so is judaism and christianity. It all depends on the people and how they see it. Just think about the Crusades being done for Christianity.

Thats around 750 years ago.

The problem is muslims are acting like its the dark ages in today.

Maybe because its the dark ages for them --'
What makes the dark ages:
poverty? Check
political instability? Check
no separation of powers? Check
importance of religion? Check
No education? Check

[popcorn1]

I don't have anything against muslims themselves. My husband's mother married a Muslim and he is a very nice guy, a lot better than most of people in my country (at least because he doesn't drink and we have a problem with drinking in my country since a bottle of vodka costs 1.5$). So, let's rather speak about the intentions of religion. I read 1/2 of Quran (in translation, so for Muslims it is not really Quran) and watched a few documentaries. It is indeed a violent religion. But so is judaism and christianity. It all depends on the people and how they see it. Just think about the Crusades being done for Christianity.

Thats around 750 years ago.

The problem is muslims are acting like its the dark ages in today.

Maybe because its the dark ages for them --'
What makes the dark ages: ISLAM AKA RELIGION
poverty? Check NO CHECK
political instability? Check GOOD TO SELL WEAPONS AND OIL
no separation of powers? Check YOUR SO RIGHT
importance of religion? Check TO LINE THE THE LEADERS POCKETS
No education? Check NO CHECK

And could you please check Sheikh Mohammed and sheikh i own a billion bucks ..

[Spendulus]

I don't have anything against muslims themselves. My husband's mother married a Muslim and he is a very nice guy, a lot better than most of people in my country (at least because he doesn't drink and we have a problem with drinking in my country since a bottle of vodka costs 1.5$). So, let's rather speak about the intentions of religion. I read 1/2 of Quran (in translation, so for Muslims it is not really Quran) and watched a few documentaries. It is indeed a violent religion. But so is judaism and christianity. It all depends on the people and how they see it. Just think about the Crusades being done for Christianity.

Thats around 750 years ago.

The problem is muslims are acting like its the dark ages in today.

Maybe because its the dark ages for them --'
What makes the dark ages:
poverty? Check
political instability? Check
no separation of powers? Check
importance of religion? Check
No education? Check

I believe there are fairly decent arguments that these factors that "make the dark ages" are the result of Islam, rather than factors outside the religion.

As for the "Crusades and Christianity," the Crusades were largely attempts to get back lands that Muslims had conquered by force.

[Spendulus]

No, Islam terrorism was around before.  How about the 400+ terrorist bombings that Yassir Arafat was involved in?

arafat was trying to reclaim a bit of land that had been taken from his people unjustly. he had have more in common with eta/ira than the current crop of muslim terrorists who kill indiscriminately. give the palestinians their land and they'll go away.

Ah, I believe many of Arafat's bombings were indiscriminate.  But yes, he focused on a single enemy as best as I recall.  Israel.

The idea of violence against the amorphous vague concept of "The West" he probably would have thought of as sheer lunacy.

I wholeheartedly agree with that.